07-22-16 08:29 PM
47 12
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  1. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    This sounds like Google wants to bake their cake and eat bit to and not share any with the chefs in the kitchen who supplying their deserts. Google reminds me of Rogers. Want their hands in everything and own the industry. Oh well, good thing I don't need apps.
    No, it's OTHER companies (like, say, BB) who would like to have their cake (BB10) and eat it too (having Google fund the Android Runtime and the whole app ecosystem for them). That would be BB doing all the taking and Google getting nothing for the billions they invest. That's not right, and Google isn't stupid enough to let that happen.

    That would be like me expecting you to buy me a car that I get to drive and wear out, just because I can't afford to buy my own. It doesn't work that way - if I want a car, I need to earn one myself, not demand that you provide one for me.
    07-21-16 12:28 AM
  2. asiayeah's Avatar
    The current Android runtime is based on Android 4.3.

    And Pokemon Go requires Android 4.4 or higher.

    C'mon BlackBerry, get on with it!!???

    Posted via CB10
    That's indeed bad. More and more Android apps are going to require newer runtime, too.

    Posted via CB10
    07-21-16 06:57 AM
  3. KeNd0's Avatar
    By letting forked users have access to the Gplay and Gapps they would still benefit from licensing and app sales, but this way they crippled the competition.

    Posted via CB10
    The_Passporter likes this.
    07-21-16 08:04 AM
  4. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    By letting forked users have access to the Gplay and Gapps they would still benefit from licensing and app sales, but this way they crippled the competition.

    Posted via CB10
    Alphabet / Google hasn't crippled the competition. The competition has crippled themselves by not using full blown android on the device. Just like tablet manufacturers did 4-5 years ago, they used free basic Android OS without licensing Google Play Store. These devices sucked without access to many apps. Why do people expect developers from OS level down to Apps expect things free or cheap?

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    Mecca EL likes this.
    07-21-16 08:16 AM
  5. conite's Avatar
    By letting forked users have access to the Gplay and Gapps they would still benefit from licensing and app sales, but this way they crippled the competition.

    Posted via CB10
    This would lead to chaos. Who would be responsible when apps don't work on a forked OS? This would be a support nightmare.
    Mecca EL likes this.
    07-21-16 08:31 AM
  6. tinochiko's Avatar
    This would lead to chaos. Who would be responsible when apps don't work on a forked OS? This would be a support nightmare.
    Isn't a forked os slightly different to ART?

    Posted via CB10
    07-21-16 09:32 AM
  7. conite's Avatar
    Isn't a forked os slightly different to ART?

    Posted via CB10
    It's semantics. I'm referring to anything that isn't pure, compliant, compatible Android.
    07-21-16 10:05 AM
  8. Kryngle's Avatar
    All BlackBerry needs to do is at least upgrade the damn UI and add features but nooooo, Chen has to let the best OS collect dust and help flood this smartphone market with Android devices. Shame on Chen. I'd love to hear what the BlackBerry founders think of all this. I wonder if they even use a BlackBerry still... Hmmm

    Posted via CB10
    07-21-16 06:16 PM
  9. conite's Avatar
    All BlackBerry needs to do is at least upgrade the damn UI and add features

    Posted via CB10
    You honestly believe that?
    07-21-16 06:24 PM
  10. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    This would lead to chaos. Who would be responsible when apps don't work on a forked OS? This would be a support nightmare.
    Which is exactly what happened with a lot of those unlicensed (cheap) Android tablets - certain features didn't work and buyers tended to blame Android (and Google) rather than the device manufacturer, who had already made their money when they sold the device initially and weren't very interested in supporting it.

    It reminds me of the HDTV boom in the mid-2000s. Hundreds of brands sprang to life to make flat-screen HDTVs - some being companies you'd heard of before (Sony, Panasonic, Toshiba, Samsung, LG), some that weren't TV brands before and in fact were just names licensed by no-name contractors (Polaroid, Kodak, Westinghouse), and some were generic "house-brand" or no-name TVs. TVs from the first category were expensive, while TVs from the second and third got progressively cheaper to buy - and many people did. But when those TVs failed - and oh boy did they start failing after a couple of years - the buyers found out that there was no company behind the name, and thus no parts or support. I'd bet that 90% of those TVs were no longer in use after 5 years; I'm in the Audio/Video business and I haven't seen one in years.

    There is always a risk in buying things outside the mainstream - especially with tech items. Buying a mainstream product gives you a far greater chance of long-term support and third-party support. Buying a niche product comes with a very high risk of being abandoned by the manufacturer...
    07-21-16 06:31 PM
  11. TheBirdDog's Avatar
    Which is exactly what happened with a lot of those unlicensed (cheap) Android tablets - certain features didn't work and buyers tended to blame Android (and Google) rather than the device manufacturer, who had already made their money when they sold the device initially and weren't very interested in supporting it.

    It reminds me of the HDTV boom in the mid-2000s. Hundreds of brands sprang to life to make flat-screen HDTVs - some being companies you'd heard of before (Sony, Panasonic, Toshiba, Samsung, LG), some that weren't TV brands before and in fact were just names licensed by no-name contractors (Polaroid, Kodak, Westinghouse), and some were generic "house-brand" or no-name TVs. TVs from the first category were expensive, while TVs from the second and third got progressively cheaper to buy - and many people did. But when those TVs failed - and oh boy did they start failing after a couple of years - the buyers found out that there was no company behind the name, and thus no parts or support. I'd bet that 90% of those TVs were no longer in use after 5 years; I'm in the Audio/Video business and I haven't seen one in years.

    There is always a risk in buying things outside the mainstream - especially with tech items. Buying a mainstream product gives you a far greater chance of long-term support and third-party support. Buying a niche product comes with a very high risk of being abandoned by the manufacturer...
    To be fair, a couple of things to note:

    BlackBerry has still not abandoned the OS or their devices completely. Support has been hugely in decline, but the big impact of this has to do with 3rd party developers and not the manufacturer.

    Also, the Android Runtime was not even a part of BB10 originally. That's right, zero ability to run Android apps. Remember that?!? So, the fact that we got it at all always was a bonus.

    To use your TV analogy, (and throw in a bit of theoretical time travel) let's say smart tvs would have come out in the late 80's. All of a sudden your smart tv sends you an update in the mail (because smart tvs travelled through time but not the internet) that you can update the software to also be able to play Nintendo Entertainment System games directly from your smart tv. A few years go by and Super NES comes out. People who buy new smart tvs also have the ability to play SNES games in addition to regular NES (not Genesis games though, they have to choose which one they want before they decide on a brand of tv to purchase). Suddenly, people who bought the earlier ones are pissed because theirs are not able to play the most current games anymore. But that's also how technology works!!! You don't always get the latest and greatest software on a device that is several years old. It's not about the manufacturer abandoning their devices or their customers. It's just how technology progresses and things become outdated or unable to keep up with the current ones.

    Something that I think people forget is that we running Android on top of another complete OS. A higher runtime requires a lot more horsepower to begin with. What do you think it would require to be able to run on top of another OS? I understand that BB10 is very lean and efficient but I also understand that Android is notasmuch. If I was BlackBerry, I probably would have tried to update the ART just to see what would happen. I will suggest the (however slight, I know) possibility that BlackBerry CHOSE not to update the runtime because it made the performance suffer too much. Even if it allowed some Android apps to run smoother, if it was at the expense of the rest of their own OS, and made for a poor user experience, they could have axed the idea themselves. Just like how the PlayBook never got BB10.

    Yes, it is very likely that the reason is simply that they are not allowed because of the OHA. It is also possible that they chose not to because it would have had more bad results than good.
    07-21-16 07:09 PM
  12. conite's Avatar

    Also, the Android Runtime was not even a part of BB10 originally. That's right, zero ability to run Android apps. Remember that?!? So, the fact that we got it at all always was a bonus.
    BB10 has had the Android Runtime since launch.
    JeepBB and StephanieMaks like this.
    07-21-16 07:18 PM
  13. TheBirdDog's Avatar
    BB10 has had the Android Runtime since launch.
    Sorry if I was mistaken... what came with 10.2.1 then? The ability to install APKs directly?
    07-21-16 07:49 PM
  14. Davis Rayler's Avatar
    Why don't they update the Android Run Time to AOSP 6.0? I mean, we could just side load play store and that's it, they don't need to add the Play Store in Stock software lol we can do it as we do it with Xiaomi phones, Remix OS etc etc

    Is that hard?

    Posted via CB10
    07-21-16 08:02 PM
  15. conite's Avatar
    Sorry if I was mistaken... what came with 10.2.1 then? The ability to install APKs directly?
    That's correct. We had to convert them to bar files before that.
    07-21-16 08:02 PM
  16. thurask's Avatar
    Sorry if I was mistaken... what came with 10.2.1 then? The ability to install APKs directly?
    Correct. Prior to that, Android app install was even more of a s**tshow.
    07-21-16 08:02 PM
  17. conite's Avatar
    Why don't they update the Android Run Time to AOSP 6.0? I mean, we could just side load play store and that's it, they don't need to add the Play Store in Stock software lol we can do it as we do it with Xiaomi phones, Remix OS etc etc

    Is that hard?

    Posted via CB10
    It's not permitted because BlackBerry sells Android phones now.
    07-21-16 08:03 PM
  18. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    Sorry if I was mistaken... what came with 10.2.1 then? The ability to install APKs directly?
    07-21-16 08:07 PM
  19. Davis Rayler's Avatar
    It's not permitted because BlackBerry sells Android phones now.
    Oh Lord, means they dig their own grave lol, well, there is nothing we can do about it...

    We have to suck it up and enjoy our BB10 devices while they're still around... and after that move to Android.... hopefully by that time the BlackBerry launcher will be much more BlackBerry 10 like!

    No need for app drawer anyone? Just like MIUI...
    Or remember the Google now launcher? Instead of the flash cards, BlackBerry can just add the BlackBerry Hub on the very last screen to the left just like in BB10! They can do that.. if Google and HTC, and Xiaomi did it why couldn't BlackBerry?

    Posted via CB10
    07-21-16 08:07 PM
  20. Invictus0's Avatar
    Sorry if I was mistaken... what came with 10.2.1 then? The ability to install APKs directly?
    It also included native code support, before that only Android apps that were coded in Java would run.
    07-21-16 08:25 PM
  21. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    To be fair, a couple of things to note:

    BlackBerry has still not abandoned the OS or their devices completely. Support has been hugely in decline, but the big impact of this has to do with 3rd party developers and not the manufacturer.
    BB10 hasn't been in active development for very close to 20 months now. That's 20 months of changes taking place in the rest of the tech world that has been breaking things one at a time.

    While "support" technically continues, development definitely does not, and development is really what determines if an OS is alive or dead. The withdrawal of support from the third-party developers that did support BB10 is largely just a reflection of BB's withdrawal of support for BB10.

    Rationalize it all you like, but the guys who develop for BB10 (except a handful that are doing the security updates) were all given pink slips 20 months ago, the buildings they worked in sold off, and they've found other jobs at other companies or otherwise moved on. That last round of cuts alone was 1400 people. BB couldn't restart development of BB10 even if it wanted to - it doesn't have the money, and they would have to build a team from scratch, and spend a year getting them up to speed before they could really do any work of substance - you can't just start a brand new team coding on something like an OS the first week through the door.

    Hell, just ripping the Android Runtime out of BB10 would be a huge task, and something more than the current skeleton crew could handle, and that would be necessary before BB could sell any new BB10 phone - a phone, BTW, that would barely have any apps it could run.

    No one familiar with a medium-to-large business could possibly take a look at BB's situation and tell you that new BB10 phones were possible. Nor would they tell you that significant development of BB10 is possible - because it isn't, and wouldn't be without a big round of hiring and a good amount of training, planning, and so on for many hundreds of employees. We'd know if that was going to happen LONG in advance, but there are no such job openings at BB.

    It is what it is.
    JeepBB and StephanieMaks like this.
    07-21-16 09:42 PM
  22. KenV54's Avatar
    BB10 hasn't been in active development for very close to 20 months now. That's 20 months of changes taking place in the rest of the tech world that has been breaking things one at a time.

    While "support" technically continues, development definitely does not, and development is really what determines if an OS is alive or dead. The withdrawal of support from the third-party developers that did support BB10 is largely just a reflection of BB's withdrawal of support for BB10.

    Rationalize it all you like, but the guys who develop for BB10 (except a handful that are doing the security updates) were all given pink slips 20 months ago, the buildings they worked in sold off, and they've found other jobs at other companies or otherwise moved on. That last round of cuts alone was 1400 people. BB couldn't restart development of BB10 even if it wanted to - it doesn't have the money, and they would have to build a team from scratch, and spend a year getting them up to speed before they could really do any work of substance - you can't just start a brand new team coding on something like an OS the first week through the door.

    Hell, just ripping the Android Runtime out of BB10 would be a huge task, and something more than the current skeleton crew could handle, and that would be necessary before BB could sell any new BB10 phone - a phone, BTW, that would barely have any apps it could run.

    No one familiar with a medium-to-large business could possibly take a look at BB's situation and tell you that new BB10 phones were possible. Nor would they tell you that significant development of BB10 is possible - because it isn't, and wouldn't be without a big round of hiring and a good amount of training, planning, and so on for many hundreds of employees. We'd know if that was going to happen LONG in advance, but there are no such job openings at BB.

    It is what it is.
    What a lucid and convincing argument! Thanks, even though it's not what I wanted to hear. Looks as though BlackBerry 10 really is dead. Business is business, I suppose, but it makes me not want to have anything further to do with this company, the way they've dealt with their loyal customer base, and so soon after having brought out OS10 and especially the Passport series.

    If it weren't for the physical keyboard, I wouldn't even consider the Priv over an iPhone at this point, or the Mercury when it comes out next year. I don't want an Android phone, otherwise. Maybe the iPhone virtual keyboard isn't so bad on one of the larger models. My wife has the iPhone SE and says she can't easily do long messages on it, the way I can on the PP, like this CB message.

    Posted via CB10
    07-22-16 08:29 PM
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