03-30-15 06:14 AM
61 123
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  1. oystersourced's Avatar
    I don't know why you love your z10 but wouldn't take an android replica of it. I know it likely wouldn't be exactly the same as BlackBerry 10 but in this hypothetical scenario you STILL wouldn't take it. That I don't get. It sounds like your issues with the idea are far more personal than most tech users would feel.

    Posted via CB10
    I wouldn't buy another Z10 spec phone because it's two years old, this seems to be BlackBerry's limit for a competitively priced phone. The BlackBerry Leap would be even more expensive if it was running Android because they would have to give Google a wad of cash on top of the millions they'd spend on developing BlackBerry Android.

    This fits in with everything I've said previously.

    BlackBerry are not big enough to out do Android manufacturers, the scale of what they could implement is greatly restricted.

    I like Android OS, my attachment is to BlackBerry 10, not BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10
    03-27-15 04:57 PM
  2. Easypants's Avatar
    I don't think he us wrong. I agree with his logic exactly. My wife is 35 and not a tech nerd- she has a top end android for a year now and she still finds it frustratingly complicated compared to BROS and iOS.

    She does like the powerful specs though.

    Posted via CB10
    03-27-15 06:38 PM
  3. spork141's Avatar
    I wouldn't buy another Z10 spec phone because it's two years old, this seems to be BlackBerry's limit for a competitively priced phone. The BlackBerry Leap would be even more expensive if it was running Android because they would have to give Google a wad of cash on top of the millions they'd spend on developing BlackBerry Android.

    This fits in with everything I've said previously.

    BlackBerry are not big enough to out do Android manufacturers, the scale of what they could implement is greatly restricted.

    I like Android OS, my attachment is to BlackBerry 10, not BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10
    Google doesn't charge manufacturers for android. They have a pretty clear terms of use that requires manufacturers to credit google for using google play services. Otherwise they don't get to use them ( see kindle fire OS)

    But yeah. Android is free. So I still don't get how you are a fan of blackberry 10 and not the features themselves. I'll leave it though. Topic getting off course.

    Posted via CB10
    03-27-15 08:07 PM
  4. birdman_38's Avatar
    How do you access them on an Android powered device?
    Sorry, I thought you meant if BlackBerry kept BB10 alive for some time after releasing an Android.
    03-27-15 08:10 PM
  5. chevpower394's Avatar
    If I wanted an android phone, I'd buy an android phone, please BlackBerry no!

    Posted via CB10
    03-27-15 08:22 PM
  6. John Vieira's Avatar
    I've been debating this in my own mind as well, my first instinct is to say no, don't go Android, keep developing BB10.

    However, as a stop gap to sell a few more units and generate some interest, I think they could make Android Classic and Android Passport.

    There is no point making full touch phones, they can't compete in terms of value/dollar with more well established Android OEMs.

    However, they can take the uniqueness, that keyboard, and make a few devices with it.

    Sell it in shop blackberry, skinned or (preferably) not skinned.

    Make sure to say it's a full android device, and not abandoning BB10.

    There was some market murmurs about Android powered Blackberry hardware, so they decided to make it available.

    It's not a great solution by any means, but it's not horrible either.

    Blackberry could also be part of the Open handset alliance that way, and have full Google play, but on their android series only.

    The BB10 series would still not be able to get it.



    Posted via CB10
    03-27-15 10:31 PM
  7. birdman_38's Avatar
    BlackBerry could also be part of the Open Handset Alliance that way, and have full Google Play, but on their Android series only.
    Only if they completely remove the Android runtime from BlackBerry 10.
    03-27-15 11:53 PM
  8. John Vieira's Avatar
    Only if they completely remove the Android runtime from BlackBerry 10.
    Yes, you're right. I forgot about that.

    Posted via CB10
    03-28-15 12:22 AM
  9. oystersourced's Avatar
    So I still don't get how you are a fan of blackberry 10 and not the features themselves.
    Posted via CB10
    Read my posts, I've never said such a thing.

    In your fantasy hypothetical situation where BlackBerry can role out a BlackBerry implementation of Android OS that runs identical to BlackBerry 10 in performance, UX and security for zero investment I still wouldn't buy a BlackBerry for the same reasons that I've said in my previous three posts.

    I think it's clear from this thread and many that have come before I wouldn't be the only one.

    Posted via CB10
    03-28-15 01:56 PM
  10. oystersourced's Avatar
    Sorry, I thought you meant if BlackBerry kept BB10 alive for some time after releasing an Android.
    Well they would need to do that to support their enterprise customers but no my point was that my purchases would be locked to BlackBerry 10 so when it comes to a new device the fact I have invested so much in BlackBerry 10 would not be a factor in my uptake of a BlackBerry Android device (which it is currently when looking at what's on the BlackBerry horizon).

    Posted via CB10
    03-28-15 02:00 PM
  11. spork141's Avatar
    Read my posts, I've never said such a thing.

    In your fantasy hypothetical situation where BlackBerry can role out a BlackBerry implementation of Android OS that runs identical to BlackBerry 10 in performance, UX and security for zero investment I still wouldn't buy a BlackBerry for the same reasons that I've said in my previous three posts.

    I think it's clear from this thread and many that have come before I wouldn't be the only one.

    Posted via CB10
    I've read your posts over and over and I still don't see a clear reason why you wouldn't buy a replica bb10 that ran android. You say "then I would treat it as any other android device and If that's the case I'd buy a different brand".

    That logic makes no sense at all. If you love bb10 then you love the UX and the features. So you should want to buy the android BlackBerry so you can maintain those features while also gaining the google ecosystem and apps. It seems like a win win.

    For some reasons your responses point toward you leaving BlackBerry out of spite if they switch to android. Doesn't really make sense to me why it would "upset" you enough to lose features you like to use everyday.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by spork141; 03-28-15 at 03:43 PM.
    03-28-15 03:16 PM
  12. D3C0D3R's Avatar
    I've read your posts over and over and I still don't see a clear reason why you wouldn't buy a replica bb10 that ran android. You say "then I would treat it as any other android device and If that's the case I'd buy a different brand".

    That logic makes no sense at all. If you love bb10 then you love the UX and the features. So you should want to buy the android BlackBerry so you can maintain those features while also gaining the google ecosystem and apps. It seems like a win win.

    For some reasons your responses point toward you leaving BlackBerry out of spite if they switch to android. Doesn't really make sense to me why it would "upset" you enough to lose features you like to use everyday.

    Posted via CB10
    I hope you realize it would not be possible to replicate the BlackBerry10 UX on Android. The entire operating system would have to be rewritten, just using the Android Kernel. The only difference there would leave a buggy-*## phone, sacrifice security, and delay users getting new updates for months, possibly years.

    Even if they somehow created a similar experience, it'd be slow to update. You see how Android 4.4 KitKat is still rolling out for some users because the companies had to customize the OS to work with their hardware and keep their extra features. 5.0 is going even slower because a huge amount of Android was rewritten and changed, dropping support for many old apps that used the previous compile-when-run method (I can't remember the actual name of that, started with a 'D' I think).

    That would only be the start of the problems.

    They would lose all business customers who had chosen them for their security, including governments and huge policy groups. Remember the BlackPhone? That "super-secure" Android? Yeah, it got hacked in what, 20 minutes? The entire integral security part of the phone would be compromised too, and that's not something patchable by just BlackBerry, the Android kernel would have to be modified and rewritten, something Google will not do.

    Like I can just keep going as to why this would be an awful idea, but how would you counter just those statements?

    Praise be unto our Lord, Squircle | Passport SQW100-1/10.3.1.2558
    daveycrocket likes this.
    03-28-15 06:08 PM
  13. scrapmetal58's Avatar
    I like dill pickles.

    Posted via CB10
    03-28-15 07:12 PM
  14. birdman_38's Avatar
    They would lose all business customers who had chosen them for their security, including governments and huge policy groups.
    Considering there's only about 10 million BlackBerry 10 enterprise users on the face of the planet, that wouldn't be much of a concern. I imagine they're having a heck of a time trying to sell a lot of businesses on security when the apps aren't readily available. Enterprise is choosing Android and iPhone over BlackBerry 10 on a daily basis. It shows in the numbers.

    Besides, why couldn't they also offer an Android-less version of BB10?
    03-28-15 07:33 PM
  15. spork141's Avatar
    I hope you realize it would not be possible to replicate the BlackBerry10 UX on Android. The entire operating system would have to be rewritten, just using the Android Kernel. The only difference there would leave a buggy-*## phone, sacrifice security, and delay users getting new updates for months, possibly years.

    Even if they somehow created a similar experience, it'd be slow to update. You see how Android 4.4 KitKat is still rolling out for some users because the companies had to customize the OS to work with their hardware and keep their extra features. 5.0 is going even slower because a huge amount of Android was rewritten and changed, dropping support for many old apps that used the previous compile-when-run method (I can't remember the actual name of that, started with a 'D' I think).

    That would only be the start of the problems.

    They would lose all business customers who had chosen them for their security, including governments and huge policy groups. Remember the BlackPhone? That "super-secure" Android? Yeah, it got hacked in what, 20 minutes? The entire integral security part of the phone would be compromised too, and that's not something patchable by just BlackBerry, the Android kernel would have to be modified and rewritten, something Google will not do.

    Like I can just keep going as to why this would be an awful idea, but how would you counter just those statements?

    Praise be unto our Lord, Squircle | Passport SQW100-1/10.3.1.2558
    I 100% know this, but we can't have a reasonable discussion on something that hasn't been announced at all. So for this case the assumption is that the UX is not a factor and that blackberry was magically able to replicate BB10 100 % on android.

    If people were open to the idea, there would be something to build off of. But some are so completely shut off to the idea and I don't know why.

    So I do want to respond to your statements though.

    1) I know OS updates would be slow but to be honest that's the case with all android devices and it's not stopping many companies from growing on it.

    2) I don't think it's fair to say that customization will necessarily lead to bugs. There's a lot of factors here but a well thought out plan and proper execution can always create solid software. I have to assume BlackBerry has been working on a backup android prototype for years now. So there's hope in that dept.
    It's also possible BlackBerry will go the amazon route and branch off some android and bring it in shop. Yeah they lose google play services but they have control of the os.

    3) I hear you on the security part but remember BlackBerry is already "securing" android and selling it as a product now. And also remember BlackBerry got less secure when it swapped bbos for BB10. It's not out of the question to go that route again.



    Posted via CB10
    03-28-15 07:35 PM
  16. birdman_38's Avatar
    It's also possible BlackBerry will go the Amazon route and branch off some Android and bring it in shop. Yeah they lose Google Play services but they have control of the os.
    I've also thought of this as well. BlackBerry could have a forked Android with their own app store. Not sure what the point of putting in the effort for that would be though. The play (pardon the pun) is for Google Services, especially Google Apps for Business. They need to become an OHA member for that.
    03-28-15 08:15 PM
  17. spork141's Avatar
    I've also thought of this as well. BlackBerry could have a forked Android with their own app store. Not sure what the point of putting in the effort for that would be though. The play (pardon the pun) is for Google Services, especially Google Apps for Business. They need to become an OHA member for that.
    I know. They would trade customization for security, and if they went that route they wouldn't really fix the app gap. At least they would have to hope amazon fixed it for them.

    One possible option is to offer hardware in both options. One for biz (BB10) one for consumer (android). Not sure what the costs would look like supporting 3 OSES but they already technically are developing for android. Who knows. Only BlackBerry really knows all the details on the potential.

    Posted via CB10
    03-28-15 09:01 PM
  18. Vorkosigan's Avatar
    I 100% know this, but we can't have a reasonable discussion on something that hasn't been announced at all. So for this case the assumption is that the UX is not a factor and that blackberry was magically able to replicate BB10 100 % on android.

    If people were open to the idea, there would be something to build off of. But some are so completely shut off to the idea and I don't know why.

    So I do want to respond to your statements though.

    1) I know OS updates would be slow but to be honest that's the case with all android devices and it's not stopping many companies from growing on it.

    2) I don't think it's fair to say that customization will necessarily lead to bugs. There's a lot of factors here but a well thought out plan and proper execution can always create solid software. I have to assume BlackBerry has been working on a backup android prototype for years now. So there's hope in that dept.
    It's also possible BlackBerry will go the amazon route and branch off some android and bring it in shop. Yeah they lose google play services but they have control of the os.

    3) I hear you on the security part but remember BlackBerry is already "securing" android and selling it as a product now. And also remember BlackBerry got less secure when it swapped bbos for BB10. It's not out of the question to go that route again.



    Posted via CB10
    I personally wouldn't buy a BbAndroid because of the reasons that the poster you're replying to enumerated.

    I've watched too many ppl with their androids phone's get turned off by how the systems start to bog down as they add some apps. Android may have a better ecosystem but BlackBerry has a better OS. you would be losing that if you skinned BlackBerry over Android.

    I have to give apple credit there. They are very good at memory management, once you teach ppl how to double tap the home button so they can actually close their apps once in awhile.

    For me though - and for many others I think - neither apple nor android are viable alternatives. I would have to look at a Windows phone I guess.

    Posted via CB10
    D3C0D3R likes this.
    03-28-15 09:34 PM
  19. spork141's Avatar
    I personally wouldn't buy a BbAndroid because of the reasons that the poster you're replying to enumerated.

    I've watched too many ppl with their androids phone's get turned off by how the systems start to bog down as they add some apps. Android may have a better ecosystem but BlackBerry has a better OS. you would be losing that if you skinned BlackBerry over Android.

    I have to give apple credit there. They are very good at memory management, once you teach ppl how to double tap the home button so they can actually close their apps once in awhile.

    For me though - and for many others I think - neither apple nor android are viable alternatives. I would have to look at a Windows phone I guess.

    Posted via CB10
    Fair, but I think the goods ourwiegh the bads. It's hard to fault android for the effects of some apps when some platforms (BlackBerry, windows phone) barley have any apps. Besides I'm sure the octacore processors coming out there days are adequate to muscle through some og it. No, horsepower is no replacement for well designed software but there's only so much you can do as a hardware manufacturer.

    Well I'm in the bb10 boat, but if BlackBerry dropped it for android I would be interested as long as it brought a physical kb to the mix.

    Posted via CB10
    03-28-15 10:40 PM
  20. southlander's Avatar
    BlackBerry's hardware is operating at a loss right.... J Chen said they need ten million a year to break even I think. This last year they were far short of that.

    But obviously they've trimmed production to match the low demand. So risks that result in low sales are not generating the huge PlayBook type losses.

    And they've done a lot of Android work already including prodding folks to using Amazon for apps. Etc. Surely somewhere inside BlackBerry there is a BlackBerry Android phone running.

    SO... I'd say why not just pump out one all touch Android phone. Good specs are a must. Skin it with BlackBerry 10 and most of all build in the hub and top notch native email. Yeah Google services as well. Gmail can be disabled easy enough just as many folks already do on Android.

    Those BlackBerry using folks that keep saying they won't buy it won't. But that appears to be a very small number of folks considering it'd be a subset of BlackBerry users to start with.

    So throw it out there. Limit production. See how many folks bite. If it fails it can't be so bad. And that settles the "what if BlackBerry had gone Android" debate. But if it outsells everything else and has good enough ASPs on the handsets the new path is obvious.

    Or maybe do it with the Passport form factor...

    Posted via CB10
    03-28-15 10:45 PM
  21. spork141's Avatar
    BlackBerry's hardware is operating at a loss right.... J Chen said they need ten million a year to break even I think. This last year they were far short of that.

    But obviously they've trimmed production to match the low demand. So risks that result in low sales are not generating the huge PlayBook type losses.

    And they've done a lot of Android work already including prodding folks to using Amazon for apps. Etc. Surely somewhere inside BlackBerry there is a BlackBerry Android phone running.

    SO... I'd say why not just pump out one all touch Android phone. Good specs are a must. Skin it with BlackBerry 10 and most of all build in the hub and top notch native email. Yeah Google services as well. Gmail can be disabled easy enough just as many folks already do on Android.

    Those BlackBerry using folks that keep saying they won't buy it won't. But that appears to be a very small number of folks considering it'd be a subset of BlackBerry users to start with.

    So throw it out there. Limit production. See how many folks bite. If it fails it can't be so bad. And that settles the "what if BlackBerry had gone Android" debate. But if it outsells everything else and has good enough ASPs on the handsets the new path is obvious.

    Or maybe do it with the Passport form factor...

    Posted via CB10
    I'm with you if they can afford it. I would say that the slider would be the better form factor. This way it could please both the kb and touch fans. You want to make this devie appeal to the broadest audience.

    Posted via CB10
    03-28-15 11:02 PM
  22. southlander's Avatar
    I'm with you if they can afford it. I would say that the slider would be the better form factor. This way it could please both the kb and touch fans. You want to make this devie appeal to the broadest audience.

    Posted via CB10
    Yeah. Maybe. When you look at form factors... The Z10 easily outsold the Q10. Right? Maybe some of that was just a rush to get the very first BlackBerry 10 device released. But you can argue the Q10 suffered from a small screen. Too small. And no toolbelt.

    So then we have a third form factor in the Passport which has a great screen... plenty large, and physical qwerty. But... Three rows of keys, and a very large, heavy device that's not a one hander generally, and also no toolbelt.

    A sleek slider with a big screen might be a good choice.

    Personally I'd say no toolbelt. Big screen. Physical qwerty. Both a must. And shed the awkwardness of one handing the Passport. That might be a winner.

    I recently moved my wife from a Z10 to a Galaxy S5. But she pointed out to me how awesome she thought the hub was. She doesn't even know what it's called. She just looked at me like how do I get everything together in one inbox like on my BB? When I told her she could not at least not as completely she was clearly disappointed. Though she's now used to Android and there are many other positives for her that she prefers. Anyway...

    I think there is a demand for some company to clean up Androids stock email and comms apps and have it out of the box emulate the hub, with BBM and all social apps integrated. Do it like BB. Allow everything to be separated out by account or not. Perhaps there are apps that do it. I am talking about out of the box, just have it all work.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    03-28-15 11:52 PM
  23. D3C0D3R's Avatar
    BlackBerry's hardware is operating at a loss right.... J Chen said they need ten million a year to break even I think. This last year they were far short of that.
    I think that was covered in another part of this thread. That was an old statement and they actually found a way to operate at a profit even with only 1.3M phones selling through at price.


    Praise be unto our Lord, Squircle | Passport SQW100-1/10.3.1.2558
    03-29-15 08:17 AM
  24. birdman_38's Avatar
    Surely somewhere inside BlackBerry there is a BlackBerry Android phone running.

    SO... I'd say why not just pump out one all touch Android phone. Good specs are a must. Skin it with BlackBerry 10 and most of all build in the hub and top notch native email. Yeah Google services as well.
    And strip all traces of Android from any future BB10 iterations to do so. That would be an unpopular decision with current subscribers. Could be one of the reasons why it hasn't happened yet.
    southlander likes this.
    03-29-15 08:35 AM
  25. southlander's Avatar
    And strip all traces of Android from any future BB10 iterations to do so. That would be an unpopular decision with current subscribers. Could be one of the reasons why it hasn't happened yet.
    I agree. According to Chen BlackBerry 10 is still a necessary OS because of its security pedigree. The Android stuff does not help in that regard at all. Strip it.
    D3C0D3R likes this.
    03-29-15 09:02 AM
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