[spork141]

Before I start my ramble, let me say that I really love BB10, and would like to see BlackBerry continue to support it. I just have a feeling the come to Jesus moment is real close. See my reasoning below.

The classic and passport were made to appeal to the bbos fan and the bb10 fans alike. The latter could maybe even appeal to a few possible android and IOS defectors

Let's make an assumption that BlackBerry didn't succeed in their goals. BbOSers didn't budge, and BB10ers didn't upgrade or moved off. Why would BlackBerry keep trying with BB10?

I know I know, security and control of the software. Those arguments would get old real quick if the last 2 devices fell short. Wall st isn't going to want to hear that jazz again. BlackBerry would need to survive and I think we all want them to continue making devices no matter what OS we land on. Sammy and HTC won't be making keyboard or productivity devices anytime soon so I'd rather have a BlackBerry built android device over another hardware manufacturer.

Let's throw in some opportunity also

Pretend this is the mobile market (made up but close)

Bbosers not switching: not counted in the "market"since they are not actually buying.

BB10: 0.5%
Windows phone: 3.5%
Android: 48%
IOS: 48%

After 2 savior devices, the BB10 needle doesn't move or actually goes down.

On the flip side, let's explore the possibility of an android blackberry slider.

The high specs, curved screen, and keyboard attracts just one percent of the android folks, .5% of the IOS folks and .3% of the bb10 folks.

That would leave BlackBerry with a 1.8% market share. Almost triple it's current market share and renewed investor and media mindset.

It's a pretty attainable goal if you ask me and defiantly a possibility in the near term. Of course it's based on assumptions, but I don't think it's far off from reality.

Assuming the classic or passport didn't work, can anyone else out there see any different move forward plans?

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[kvpiet2011]

going to be tough to gain market share - leaves me kinda worried, but hopefully they keep making phones for our niche group

[baarn]

BlackBerry would need to survive and I think we all want them to continue making devices no matter what OS we land on. Sammy and HTC won't be making keyboard or productivity devices anytime soon so I'd rather have a BlackBerry built android device over another hardware manufacturer.

For me, the choice to go with BlackBerry is hardware, software, and to a certain extent company values.
If they give up on the software to start selling Android "commodity" phones, then I see no reason to stick with them. I could likely buy five Chinese knockoffs for the price of one BlackBerry and they'd probably do the job too.
People can still pay top dollar for commodity items, but that's all about marketing, and the consensus here is that BlackBerry sucks at marketing.

[spork141]

For me, the choice to go with BlackBerry is hardware, software, and to a certain extent company values.
If they give up on the software to start selling Android "commodity" phones, then I see no reason to stick with them. I could likely buy five Chinese knockoffs for the price of one BlackBerry and they'd probably do the job too.
People can still pay top dollar for commodity items, but that's all about marketing, and the consensus here is that BlackBerry sucks at marketing.

I don't agree on the marketing. No amount of marketing can fix the BlackBerry mindset at this point. The general public knows blackberry and they know they don't like it.

So you would rather buy a galaxy 6 edge than a BlackBerry made slider,passport, or classic running android skinned to work similar to bb10? Not sure I understand the logic there.


And it doesn't matter really. If these deceives didn't sell they won't care about their current user base. They are going to try to create a new one from the android pool. And the little success they make will likely be greater than beating the dead horse they have been for the last 3 or 4 years.


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[oystersourced]

I can't imagine any iPhone users would want an Android powered slider.

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[spork141]

I can't imagine any iPhone users would want an Android powered slider.

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If you mean iphone users who are fanboys? Of course not but fanboys and fans are still a smaller segment of the population. What about the millions of folks who just can't type on their iphones screen that might give it a try? I can tell you this, I can see them on an android slider before BB10.

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[pttptppt]

If you mean iphone users who are fanboys? Of course not but fanboys and fans are still a smaller segment of the population. What about the millions of folks who just can't type on their iphones screen that might give it a try? I can tell you this, I can see them on an android slider before BB10.

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Umm iPhone fanboys are basically the only people that still buy iPhones over android. They're the reason iPhones are so popular and that Apple is doing so well. The only other people that use iPhones are people that find phones very complicated. Ios is a simple to use os so they prefer it

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[spork141]

Umm iPhone fanboys are basically the only people that still buy iPhones over android. They're the reason iPhones are so popular and that Apple is doing so well. The only other people that use iPhones are people that find phones very complicated. Ios is a simple to use os so they prefer it

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THis is so wrong. My mom, dad, brother, 3 cousins, about 4 co workers, and girlfriend all have iphones and none of them are fanboys or know a thing about tech. THey have iPhones because "thats what my friends have", "what's an android?" and "Blackberry is still around?". Thats the majority of the mobile market. Thats oppurtunity

[oystersourced]

Umm iPhone fanboys are basically the only people that still buy iPhones over android. They're the reason iPhones are so popular and that Apple is doing so well. The only other people that use iPhones are people that find phones very complicated. Ios is a simple to use os so they prefer it

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This is my point of view too, iPhones are expensive for what they are so only those who want an iPhone over anything else is likely to purchase one. The odds of someone moving to Android from iOS are much better than an iPhone user moving to a slider. I use a BlackBerry and I'm not even convinced by a slider, the last time I saw one was over ten years ago and the person with it got mocked religiously.

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[pttptppt]

THis is so wrong. My mom, dad, brother, 3 cousins, about 4 co workers, and girlfriend all have iphones and none of them are fanboys or know a thing about tech. THey have iPhones because "thats what my friends have", "what's an android?" and "Blackberry is still around?". Thats the majority of the mobile market. Thats oppurtunity

I believe you misunderstood my post. I said for fanboys and for PEOPLE THAT FIND PHONES TOO COMPLICATED. Which means that they know nothing about tech (which is where your family, girlfriend and coworkers fit in)

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[spork141]

I believe you misunderstood my post. I said for fanboys and for PEOPLE THAT FIND PHONES TOO COMPLICATED. Which means that they know nothing about tech (which is where your family, girlfriend and coworkers fit in)

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So what's the alternative then? I see some feedback but no alternatives. Blackberry goes android and attempts a 1-2% overall marketshare (fans/non-fans/fanboys/whatever), or keep on with BB10?

[scrapmetal58]

If BlackBerry switches to Android, I'll switch back to the iPhone. I despise Android and have absolutely no interest in one, even if made by BlackBerry. It was BlackBerry 10 that made me switch to BlackBerry, not the physical device itself nor the company.
Obviously, I'm not the norm for a BlackBerry user, but the above is my viewpoint.

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[eyesopen1111]

If I understand correctly, the question is: given identical hardware, which device would out-sell the other, (A) a slider running true BB10, or (B) a BB10-looking slider actually running Android OS?

Personally, I think that the Android OS offer would outperform the true BB10 version in sales. BB10 seems to be stagnating as an OS, while Android is growing like weed.

[spork141]

If I understand correctly, the question is: given identical hardware, which device would out-sell the other, (A) a slider running true BB10, or (B) a BB10-looking slider actually running Android OS?

Personally, I think that the Android OS offer would outperform the true BB10 version in sales. BB10 seems to be stagnating as an OS, while Android is growing like weed.

Yes this is exactly the question. Im not asking if BB10 / BBOS owners would stay. Im asking if overall sales will benefit by directly appealing to those markets by giving them a "proven" OS with blackberry DNA / hardware. This is only in the context that the classic and passport failed to deliver the results they hoped (an assumption).

[tollfeeder]

OT but how is the iOS market share (even close) to 48%? As far as I know it's more like 11%. Or is the OP referring to the US only?

Via Pasta CB10

[spork141]

OT but how is the iOS market share (even close) to 48%? As far as I know it's more like 11%. Or is the OP referring to the US only?

Via Pasta CB10

US only but like I said it's not scientific. The point is, does blackberry have more opportunity to grow as a hardware biz by ditching their core and going for the broader audience? This is assuming the classic and passport still didn't move the needle.

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[baarn]

I don't agree on the marketing. No amount of marketing can fix the BlackBerry mindset at this point. The general public knows blackberry and they know they don't like it.

If this is the case, then BlackBerry is finished, at least as a brand.

So you would rather buy a galaxy 6 edge than a BlackBerry made slider,passport, or classic running android skinned to work similar to bb10? Not sure I understand the logic there.

Would you rather fill your car at Texaco or Shell?
Personally it's all the same to me.

US only but like I said it's not scientific. The point is, does blackberry have more opportunity to grow as a hardware biz by ditching their core and going for the broader audience? This is assuming the classic and passport still didn't move the needle.

You've suggested that no amount of marketing can fix the BlackBerry mindset, so I don't see how throwing away a key differentiator (bbos/security) to sell a commodity item (android) using an arguably toxic brand (BlackBerry) will help things.


When we lose BlackBerry we are ultimately losing choice. I suppose the question is how much choice can the market tolerate. One thing is for sure, if the market becomes more of a monopoly, or even duopoly, there will be a cost to the consumer.

Anyway, I'm probably not answering your original question...

[spork141]

If this is the case, then BlackBerry is finished, at least as a brand.



Would you rather fill your car at Texaco or Shell?
Personally it's all the same to me.



You've suggested that no amount of marketing can fix the BlackBerry mindset, so I don't see how throwing away a key differentiator (bbos/security) to sell a commodity item (android) using an arguably toxic brand (BlackBerry) will help things.


When we lose BlackBerry we are ultimately losing choice. I suppose the question is how much choice can the market tolerate. One thing is for sure, if the market becomes more of a monopoly, or even duopoly, there will be a cost to the consumer.

Anyway, I'm probably not answering your original question...

Yes. No amount of affordable marketing can fix the BlackBerry brand in the consumer mind set, but if BlackBerry runs android they become an Android brand not a Blackberry brand. Motorola or samsung weren't companies with great brand recognition back in the flip phone days. Now they are both considered best in class.

So if it's all same to you if blackberry goes android, would you not get a blackberry android phone for their customizations and apps (hub, keyboard, etc)?

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[baarn]

So if it's all same to you if blackberry goes android, would you not get a blackberry android phone for their customizations and apps (hub, keyboard, etc)?

No, they would get no special preference. I might buy one, but there are plenty of other choices.

[oystersourced]

So if it's all same to you if blackberry goes android, would you not get a blackberry android phone for their customizations and apps (hub, keyboard, etc)?

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I would avoid the company like the plague and do my up-most to make sure everybody else did the same. I have invested in BlackBerry 10, all app purchases would be lost, BBM purchases are tied to your OS ID, I'd be smarting.

I only came to BlackBerry because of BlackBerry 10, I would move to Samsung or Apple if BlackBerry left behind what makes it special.

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[birdman_38]

I have invested in BlackBerry 10, all app purchases would be lost, BBM purchases are tied to your OS ID, I'd be smarting.

My PlayBook purchases haven't been lost. And it's been unsupported for almost a year now.

[spork141]

I would avoid the company like the plague and do my up-most to make sure everybody else did the same. I have invested in BlackBerry 10, all app purchases would be lost, BBM purchases are tied to your OS ID, I'd be smarting.

I only came to BlackBerry because of BlackBerry 10, I would move to Samsung or Apple if BlackBerry left behind what makes it special.

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If an android version of bb10 came along and functioned EXACTLY like BB10 with active frames and all, why wouldn't it be as "special" anymore? Why do you care so much about the underlying tech? Wouldn't getting access to all those apps and google play services outweigh knowing it's based on android?

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[oystersourced]

My PlayBook purchases haven't been lost. And it's been unsupported for almost a year now.

How do you access them on an Android powered device?

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[oystersourced]

If an android version of bb10 came along and functioned EXACTLY like BB10 with active frames and all, why wouldn't it be as "special" anymore? Why do you care so much about the underlying tech? Wouldn't getting access to all those apps and google play services outweigh knowing it's based on android?

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BlackBerry could not currently afford to take Android and produce a BlackBerry 10 experience with identical UX and superior security (whether or not that is based on obscurity or good practice).

I love my Z10 but if BlackBerry moved to Android I would be looking for either an iPhone or the best Android powered hardware for my budget. Based on BlackBerry's current business plan, I would certainly not consider an Android powered BlackBerry device.

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[spork141]

BlackBerry could not currently afford to take Android and produce a BlackBerry 10 experience with identical UX and superior security (whether or not that is based on obscurity or good practice).

I love my Z10 but if BlackBerry moved to Android I would be looking for either an iPhone or the best Android powered hardware for my budget. Based on BlackBerry's current business plan, I would certainly not consider an Android powered BlackBerry device.

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I don't know why you love your z10 but wouldn't take an android replica of it. I know it likely wouldn't be exactly the same as BlackBerry 10 but in this hypothetical scenario you STILL wouldn't take it. That I don't get. It sounds like your issues with the idea are far more personal than most tech users would feel.

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