01-06-17 11:52 PM
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  1. methodinsane's Avatar
    Hi ho!

    What are the speculative or actual reasons BlackBerry haven't updated to a newer runtime (Kitkat for example) on BB10?

    Cheers,
    JP

    Posted via CB10
    04-27-16 07:28 AM
  2. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    Because active BB10 development has ended. Security certifications and maybe a few bug fixes are all you're going to get.
    04-27-16 07:35 AM
  3. kvndoom's Avatar
    I'm glad somebody finally asked that question.
    04-27-16 07:40 AM
  4. Polt's Avatar
    Why not go for MM... I'm serious....
    04-27-16 07:44 AM
  5. Soulstream's Avatar
    Why not go for MM... I'm serious....
    legal reasons: there is a very very high possibility that the licencing deal with google in order to build the priv prevents them from updating the runtime (or possibily releasing new BB10 devices with the runtime still present)

    practical reasons: the runtime was a failure. It was meant as a stop-gap for the app gap. But it was clear that even having the ability to sideload android apps didn't help much with sales. If having the Amazon app-store preinstalled didn't help at all, it's clear that Android apps are not the solution (and devs certainly aren't interested in building native ones).
    JeepBB likes this.
    04-27-16 08:05 AM
  6. Trist's Avatar
    legal reasons: there is a very very high possibility that the licencing deal with google in order to build the priv prevents them from updating the runtime (or possibily releasing new BB10 devices with the runtime still present)

    practical reasons: the runtime was a failure. It was meant as a stop-gap for the app gap. But it was clear that even having the ability to sideload android apps didn't help much with sales. If having the Amazon app-store preinstalled didn't help at all, it's clear that Android apps are not the solution (and devs certainly aren't interested in building native ones).
    This. Legal reasons.

    Current android runtime works very well with Cobalt's method.

    Posted via CB10
    04-27-16 10:44 AM
  7. ppeters914's Avatar
    Please search before posting a question that's been discussed ad nauseum already.

    Posted via CB10 / AT&T /Z10 STL100-3 /10.3.2.2813
    app_Developer likes this.
    04-27-16 03:32 PM
  8. Soulstream's Avatar
    This. Legal reasons.

    Current android runtime works very well with Cobalt's method.

    Posted via CB10
    Yes, but for how long? Only about 25% of Android phones are still on 4.3 or below (Dashboards | Android Developers) and that number will continue to decline rapidly as old phones will be replaced or stop working altogether. App will begin targetting higher and higher versions of Android and BB10 will soon be unable to run newer versions of the apps.
    JeepBB and Elephant_Canyon like this.
    04-28-16 02:52 AM
  9. Trist's Avatar
    Yes, but for how long? Only about 25% of Android phones are still on 4.3 or below (Dashboards | Android Developers) and that number will continue to decline rapidly as old phones will be replaced or stop working altogether. App will begin targetting higher and higher versions of Android and BB10 will soon be unable to run newer versions of the apps.
    Well, when that time comes you and I will have to decide if the newer version is necessary. Currently, I'm running one android app at its latest version (only have 1 android app). And if that developer required their latest app to run in latest android runtime, then I'll have to decide if their newest app is worth running. Some features are whatever, but if the update was regarding patching a serious security flaw, then I guess I'm SOL.

    Posted via CB10
    04-28-16 09:22 AM
  10. Drenegade's Avatar
    4.3 should still be fine for another year or two. There's a ton of people still using it and lots even still using 2.3 and below. Cobalts methods work pretty much flawlessly for me at the moment. By the time it's dried up, I'll be done with my passport anyway.

    Posted via CB10
    04-28-16 09:32 AM
  11. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    4.3 should still be fine for another year or two. There's a ton of people still using it and lots even still using 2.3 and below.
    "Lots" = 2.7%, and I'd bet a lot of those are old generic tablets that are occasionally used for web browsing, and other non-smartphone things that had Android installed on them years ago, such as car stereos. And I'd bet most of the phones still running 2.3 or older are in emerging markets. I'd be shocked if more than half a percent of phones in mature markets use 2.3. And you'd better believe that developers see the same.

    Android 4.3 is doing the big fade out right now, and a year from now it will be under 5%, and most devs won't support it. You can extrapolate from previous versions and how they declined the same number of months after release. Make no mistake, 4.3 support is already being pulled - folks have been reporting failed apps (due to 4.4 requirements) in this very forum for months already.
    JeepBB likes this.
    04-28-16 09:12 PM
  12. Drenegade's Avatar
    "Lots" = 2.7%, and I'd bet a lot of those are old generic tablets that are occasionally used for web browsing, and other non-smartphone things that had Android installed on them years ago, such as car stereos. And I'd bet most of the phones still running 2.3 or older are in emerging markets. I'd be shocked if more than half a percent of phones in mature markets use 2.3. And you'd better believe that developers see the same.

    Android 4.3 is doing the big fade out right now, and a year from now it will be under 5%, and most devs won't support it. You can extrapolate from previous versions and how they declined the same number of months after release. Make no mistake, 4.3 support is already being pulled - folks have been reporting failed apps (due to 4.4 requirements) in this very forum for months already.
    You're 100% correct. There's no denying that. The next phone for me will be Android, but I'll keep using the Passport for as long as possible.

    Posted via CB10
    04-29-16 01:00 AM
  13. mcne2001's Avatar
    If I look at the illustration how Fairphone Open Source OS is built up, then I highly doubt that Google can prevent BlackBerry from updating the runtime in BB OS10 :

    http://code.fairphone.com/projects/fp-osos/index.html



    Posted via Passport running BlackBerry OS10
    Jerry Hildenbrand likes this.
    04-29-16 01:50 PM
  14. Ment's Avatar
    If I look at the illustration how Fairphone Open Source OS is built up, then I highly doubt that Google can prevent BlackBerry from updating the runtime in BB OS10 :

    Fairphone Open Source OS €” FAIRPHONE open source 1.0 documentation





    It comes stripped from proprietary applications (like the Google Mobile Services)
    And thats how Google controls BB Android. You want Playstore on the PRIV? Play ball on the rest of your devices.
    JeepBB likes this.
    04-29-16 02:16 PM
  15. mf1982's Avatar
    Sometimes it's not a choice of using the updated app or the older version, some apps have moved to 4.4 and above and the older versions don't work at all. I would think by this time next year the runtime will be even less than useful for any modern app.

    I wish it weren't so, but it is what it is and unfortunately the market has spoken.

    Posted via CB10
    04-29-16 02:25 PM
  16. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    If I look at the illustration how Fairphone Open Source OS is built up, then I highly doubt that Google can prevent BlackBerry from updating the runtime in BB OS10 :

    Fairphone Open Source OS — FAIRPHONE open source 1.0 documentation
    Quoted from your source:

    But there’s more. In its current form, Android is not really usable yet. An application store is still missing, for example. Therefore nearly every Android phone on the market is shipped with Google Mobile Services (GMS). This is a package of Google apps and services, including the Google Play app store. GMS is distinct from Android and remains under a completely separate license from Google, and is not open source.
    You don't get GMS (which includes official access to the Play Store) unless you choose to license it from Google (but it IS a choice - Amazon for example has chosen to use Android but not license GMS, and they've built their own store and services instead; it's just that they get relatively little developer support). If you choose to license GMS, part of that license is that you agree not to make any products that contain non-Google-certified Android code.

    Most manufacturers license GMS because that's what their customers want and expect on their phone - the Amazon Fire Phone was a disaster in big part because it didn't have GMS - and so, even though some manufacturers would love to make their own Android forks or dual-boot devices or whatever, they voluntarily give up that right in order to get GMS. Remember that GMS was developed by and paid for by Google - they own it and they can license it however they like. Anyone is free to compete with them - as Amazon does and as "alternative Android markets" like 1MobileMarket and Aptoide and others do - but the reality is that developers focus their support primarily - and often exclusively - on Google Play.

    So, if you're a manufacturer, and you want to sell phones to normal people, you need GMS, and getting GMS is more important than making your own Android forks and other prohibited projects. Even BB got to the point where GMS was more important to them than BB10 was, and they licensed GMS at the expense of the Android Runtime in BB10. They got to continue to sell off their existing stocks of BB10 phones, but they cannot update the runtime to a newer Android version nor can they make any new BB10 devices that contain an Android runtime. They are free to make all the BB10 devices they like IF they remove the Android Runtime from it, though. It's just that that would be pointless - BB10 has virtually no native app support, so it would be nearly a browser-only phone.
    JeepBB likes this.
    04-29-16 09:54 PM
  17. Uzi's Avatar
    Quoted from your source:



    - BB10 has virtually no native app support, so it would be nearly a browser-only phone.
    Ouch!
    04-29-16 11:09 PM
  18. johnny_bravo72's Avatar
    Ouch!
    But we're used to that, right?
    "We don't need no stinkin' apps!"

    *A3-A20
    Ronindan, JeepBB and Uzi like this.
    04-29-16 11:40 PM
  19. Ronindan's Avatar
    Quoted from your source:



    You don't get GMS (which includes official access to the Play Store) unless you choose to license it from Google (but it IS a choice - Amazon for example has chosen to use Android but not license GMS, and they've built their own store and services instead; it's just that they get relatively little developer support). If you choose to license GMS, part of that license is that you agree not to make any products that contain non-Google-certified Android code.

    Most manufacturers license GMS because that's what their customers want and expect on their phone - the Amazon Fire Phone was a disaster in big part because it didn't have GMS - and so, even though some manufacturers would love to make their own Android forks or dual-boot devices or whatever, they voluntarily give up that right in order to get GMS. Remember that GMS was developed by and paid for by Google - they own it and they can license it however they like. Anyone is free to compete with them - as Amazon does and as "alternative Android markets" like 1MobileMarket and Aptoide and others do - but the reality is that developers focus their support primarily - and often exclusively - on Google Play.

    So, if you're a manufacturer, and you want to sell phones to normal people, you need GMS, and getting GMS is more important than making your own Android forks and other prohibited projects. Even BB got to the point where GMS was more important to them than BB10 was, and they licensed GMS at the expense of the Android Runtime in BB10. They got to continue to sell off their existing stocks of BB10 phones, but they cannot update the runtime to a newer Android version nor can they make any new BB10 devices that contain an Android runtime. They are free to make all the BB10 devices they like IF they remove the Android Runtime from it, though. It's just that that would be pointless - BB10 has virtually no native app support, so it would be nearly a browser-only phone.

    One thing to add - OEMs did try to build their own app stores, LG, Samsung and I think HTC still have app stores. But much like Amazon they failed to gain developer support. Those OEMs realized that just because you build an os and released it to devs, does not mean those devs will go start building apps for you.
    Troy Tiscareno and JeepBB like this.
    04-30-16 09:16 AM
  20. kvndoom's Avatar
    One thing to add - OEMs did try to build their own app stores, LG, Samsung and I think HTC still have app stores. But much like Amazon they failed to gain developer support. Those OEMs realized that just because you build an os and released it to devs, does not mean those devs will go start building apps for you.
    That sounds VERY familiar...
    Ronindan and JeepBB like this.
    04-30-16 09:24 AM
  21. joeldf's Avatar
    One thing to add - OEMs did try to build their own app stores, LG, Samsung and I think HTC still have app stores. But much like Amazon they failed to gain developer support. Those OEMs realized that just because you build an os and released it to devs, does not mean those devs will go start building apps for you.
    I thought most of those app stores they have now are more for device specific apps, not full blown attempts at usurping the main Google Play store.

    Amazon is that attempt since they don't have Google's Play store.

    Posted via CB10
    04-30-16 03:11 PM
  22. dpeters11's Avatar
    "Lots" = 2.7%, and I'd bet a lot of those are old generic tablets that are occasionally used for web browsing, and other non-smartphone things that had Android installed on them years ago, such as car stereos. And I'd bet most of the phones still running 2.3 or older are in emerging markets. I'd be shocked if more than half a percent of phones in mature markets use 2.3. And you'd better believe that developers see the same.

    Android 4.3 is doing the big fade out right now, and a year from now it will be under 5%, and most devs won't support it. You can extrapolate from previous versions and how they declined the same number of months after release. Make no mistake, 4.3 support is already being pulled - folks have been reporting failed apps (due to 4.4 requirements) in this very forum for months already.
    And about 23% of Android devices that checked into the Play store run that version or older. That's not an insignificant number.
    04-30-16 03:19 PM
  23. Ronindan's Avatar
    I thought most of those app stores they have now are more for device specific apps, not full blown attempts at usurping the main Google Play store.

    Amazon is that attempt since they don't have Google's Play store.

    Posted via CB10
    OEMs are still trying to create their own ecosystems, Samsung for example is still at it for example.

    Samsung Galaxy Apps | Mobile Service | APPS | SAMSUNG Levant
    04-30-16 03:21 PM
  24. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    And about 23% of Android devices that checked into the Play store run that version or older. That's not an insignificant number.
    But look at how quickly that number is falling off. 9 months ago that number was double, and 9 months from now, it will be 5% or so - people who are either using a 4 year old device or people who bought cheapie Chinese devices 2 years ago that were launched with really old Android and never updated.

    That's the point: old versions die of attrition, and once less than 80% of a market is using that version, developers stop supporting it, which frees them to deploy features that only newer versions support. v4.3 is rapidly dropping and will fall below that threshold very soon, and already developers are making v4.4 their minimum. Again, folks in this very forum complain about exactly that happening to apps they use on a regular basis, and it is going to get worse as time goes on.
    JeepBB and Ronindan like this.
    05-01-16 03:13 PM
  25. Shafeek KV's Avatar
    This. Legal reasons.

    Current android runtime works very well with Cobalt's method.

    Posted via CB10
    Some games and apps not working with this android run time. We need at least 4.4 .
    01-05-17 03:07 AM
34 12

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