[danielstefan35]

As long as email will still work on my Passport, it's fine. And I believe it will work after December 2019.

[conite]

Im fairly certain that amount could be handled freely.

What I mean is the traffic, it wouldnt be too difficult to configure other parties and services to carry anyone still using.

Posted via CB10

But why bother? How will this generate revenue for BlackBerry?

[Leyra B10]

But why bother? How will this generate revenue for BlackBerry?

Ha , yea I guess that's more convincing than why not.

Posted via CB10

[anon(9188202)]

I liked BBW. Maybe I'm the only one,lol, but IMHO there are/were many high quality apps there. I've bought quite a few over the years.

Agree. There were plenty of gems among the rocks, a few of which I have found no Android equivalent for.

[markmall]

One responsibility is to make sure no shareholder money is wasted. Any money spent on BB10 and it’s ecosystem beyond legal obligations, is wasting shareholder money. This isn’t debating about BB10. For shareholders and remaining BB10 users, his only actual responsibilities are meeting those legal obligations for the users and doing it as cheaply as possible for the shareholders. Since BB exited hardware, two parties are diametrically opposed.

Besides, now, the remaining Technology ecosystem from 2013 is crumbling.

Not if saving $5 destroys $100 in goodwill.

[Chuck Finley69]

Not if saving $5 destroys $100 in goodwill.

There’s no $100 in goodwill left. Internal bean counters have already done the calculations. The remaining BB10 users that actually care about BB10 have already been written off. I’m not talking about BB10 users like myself that don’t need BB10 and only consider BB10 hobby OS now.

[markmall]

There’s no $100 in goodwill left. Internal bean counters have already done the calculations. The remaining BB10 users that actually care about BB10 have already been written off. I’m not talking about BB10 users like myself that don’t need BB10 and only consider BB10 hobby OS now.

It might be closer to $10 in goodwill but there is enough goodwill not to turn off servers that are probably too old to use for something else.

And I don't assume that bean counters make the best business decisions. Bean counting has lead to 95% of the world thinking BlackBerry doesn't exist anymore. Is that the brand Prem paid for?

Posted via CB10

[Chuck Finley69]

It might be closer to $10 in goodwill but there is enough goodwill not to turn off servers that are probably too old to use for something else.

And I don't assume that bean counters make the best business decisions. Bean counting has lead to 95% of the world thinking BlackBerry doesn't exist anymore. Is that the brand Prem paid for?

Posted via CB10

Prem/Fairfax and the other institutional shareholders have paid for the exact business strategy they’re getting. I can assure you that VC and PE figure out ways to make two quarters equal dollar or two. It does so force squeezing out wasted inefficiencies of both resources and capital.

[conite]

Not if saving $5 destroys $100 in goodwill.

How much in potential licencing fees will BlackBerry stand to lose from the 112 people left using BB10 in 2020?

[lolo9269]

How much in potential licencing fees will BlackBerry stand to lose from the 112 people left using BB10 in 2020?

I wil be a one of 112 people. Looking for other 111 people

Love Peace and Share

[markmall]

How much in potential licencing fees will BlackBerry stand to lose from the 112 people left using BB10 in 2020?

There will be a lot more than 112 and all will have a strong identification with the brand. I know, I know, BlackBerry doesn't care about consumers anymore. But brand image is important for any business and many BB10 holdouts will be people in the tech industry.

Posted via CB10

[conite]

There will be a lot more than 112

many BB10 holdouts will be people in the tech industry.

I just don't buy either of these arguments.

[bb10adopter111]

How much in potential licencing fees will BlackBerry stand to lose from the 112 people left using BB10 in 2020?

You keep asserting ridiculously low numbers of BB10 users after 2019. I agree that there aren't likely to be enough to create economies of scale, and that BlackBerry should stick to its current plan, but there really is no way to know whether the number of stalwart BB10 users remaining are going to be 112, 112,000, or 1.12 million.

The fact this that, unlike iPhone and Android phones, BB10 phone don't slow down for their basic functions. You, and the vast majority of users, may find those functions to be horribly limiting and old-fashioned, and I get that.

There are currently around 7 billion active mobile phones in the world, with about 5 billion users, and I think it would be almost impossible to estimate whether the number of BB10 phones in use on Jan 1, 2020 will be 0.000000016, 0.000016 or 0.00016 of that total.

I don't think BlackBerry cares one way or the other, but you might consider whether it's appropriate to state, without supporting evidence, that the people still happily using BB10 will all somehow change their minds about iPhone and Android phones just because BlackBerry finally announces an EOL date and shirts down BBM and BlackBerry World.

Personally, I don't think it's absurd to suggest that most BB10 users still satisfied in mid-2018 will still be satisfied in 2020. The reality is that, as an app platform, BB10 was practically DOA in 2013, and has been sucking wind horribly for at least two years, but as a BBOS replacement, it has been, and continues to be, pretty spectacular.

Personally, I find your 212 number even more ridiculous that saying 2M will be using BB10 in 2020. But I'm 99.999% sure the number is somewhere between those silly extremes.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[conite]

You keep asserting ridiculously low numbers of BB10 users after 2019. I agree that there aren't likely to be enough to create economies of scale, and that BlackBerry should stick to its current plan, but there really is no way to know whether the number of stalwart BB10 users remaining are going to be 112, 112,000, or 1.12 million.

The fact this that, unlike iPhone and Android phones, BB10 phone don't slow down for their basic functions. You, and the vast majority of users, may find those functions to be horribly limiting and old-fashioned, and I get that.

There are currently around 7 billion active mobile phones in the world, with about 5 billion users, and I think it would be almost impossible to estimate whether the number of BB10 phones in use on Jan 1, 2020 will be 0.000000016, 0.000016 or 0.00016 of that total.

I don't think BlackBerry cares one way or the other, but you might consider whether it's appropriate to state, without supporting evidence, that the people still happily using BB10 will all somehow change their minds about iPhone and Android phones just because BlackBerry finally announces an EOL date and shirts down BBM and BlackBerry World.

Personally, I don't think it's absurd to suggest that most BB10 users still satisfied in mid-2018 will still be satisfied in 2020. The reality is that, as an app platform, BB10 was practically DNA in 2013, and has been sucking wind horribly for at least two years, but as a BBOS replacement, it has been, and continues to be pretty spectacular.

Personally, I find your 212 number even more ridiculous that saying 2M will be using BB10 in 2020. But I'm 99.999% sure the number is somewhere between those silly extremes.

Posted with my trusty Z10

Obviously 212 was being facetious.

I would guess between 10k and 50k.

And of those, not many would knock BlackBerry for turning off the tap.

So the argument is the same - it won't damage "goodwill" to any degree that matters.

[bb10adopter111]

Obviously 212 was being facetious.

I would guess between 10k and 50k.

And of those, not many would knock BlackBerry for turning off the tap.

So the argument is the same - it won't damage "goodwill" to any degree that matters.

I knew you were being facetious, but I still wanted to make the point that there may be more of us troglodytes than you think. I think there might be more active phones floating around that aren't primary, but I completely agree that good will is certainly not going to be an issue worth considering. In think the remaining phones and users will largely fade away gracefully with dignity after a longer product cycle than any other phone this past decade.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[curves2000]

The way I look at the 2020 for a lot of people who just use mobile phones and aren't as engaged as Crackberry, how would they know about the EOL date?

The only reason I know about the date and others as well is due to the BlackBerry news on this site and the BlackBerry Blog. It's not like the devices have been sent messages explaining the situation and what features are going to be shut down.

I do think that over the next 18 months there will be a strong erosion of the BlackBerry 10 and BBOS user base, mostly due to the age of the phones but also conversions to BlackBerry Android offerings as well.

For the small amount of hardcore fans, business users who prefer the keyboard & toolbelt like on the 9900 and Classic and users who love the Passport form factor, they will continue to hold their devices loud and proud.

I am still undecided which route I will take as of June 2018. My SE Passport is in excellent shape, I mostly do calls, texts, BBM and email. I do a little web surfing and don't use many apps. The apps I did use have almost all died so that's getting harder and harder to deal with and the browser is eroding quickly. Can I send myself using BlackBerry 10 in 6 months? Most likely but in a years time? It might be tough. I'm having an issue with mms messages and if anything happens to email functions via hotmail, I will be in trouble.

Posted via CB10

[Chuck Finley69]

You keep asserting ridiculously low numbers of BB10 users after 2019. I agree that there aren't likely to be enough to create economies of scale, and that BlackBerry should stick to its current plan, but there really is no way to know whether the number of stalwart BB10 users remaining are going to be 112, 112,000, or 1.12 million.

The fact this that, unlike iPhone and Android phones, BB10 phone don't slow down for their basic functions. You, and the vast majority of users, may find those functions to be horribly limiting and old-fashioned, and I get that.

There are currently around 7 billion active mobile phones in the world, with about 5 billion users, and I think it would be almost impossible to estimate whether the number of BB10 phones in use on Jan 1, 2020 will be 0.000000016, 0.000016 or 0.00016 of that total.

I don't think BlackBerry cares one way or the other, but you might consider whether it's appropriate to state, without supporting evidence, that the people still happily using BB10 will all somehow change their minds about iPhone and Android phones just because BlackBerry finally announces an EOL date and shirts down BBM and BlackBerry World.

Personally, I don't think it's absurd to suggest that most BB10 users still satisfied in mid-2018 will still be satisfied in 2020. The reality is that, as an app platform, BB10 was practically DOA in 2013, and has been sucking wind horribly for at least two years, but as a BBOS replacement, it has been, and continues to be, pretty spectacular.

Personally, I find your 212 number even more ridiculous that saying 2M will be using BB10 in 2020. But I'm 99.999% sure the number is somewhere between those silly extremes.

Posted with my trusty Z10

For texting, email and phone calls, I'd take my BBOS 9800/9810, 9850/9860 and 9900 over any BB10 device. The only area BB10 was ahead was browser and that advantage is degrading. BBOS always has generated better economic results than BB10. The fact that BBOS and BB10 are going EOL simultaneous helps support my thesis. If BB is willing to alienate remaining BBOS users then BB10 has even less goodwill.

[bb10adopter111]

For texting, email and phone calls, I'd take my BBOS 9800/9810, 9850/9860 and 9900 over any BB10 device. The only area BB10 was ahead was browser and that advantage is degrading. BBOS always has generated better economic results than BB10. The fact that BBOS and BB10 are going EOL simultaneous helps support my thesis. If BB is willing to alienate remaining BBOS users then BB10 has even less goodwill.

I also love BBOS, but the end of carrier BIS support will pretty much break BBOS, while BB10 doesn't require BIS but maintains the BBOS focus on written business (primarily email) communication.

I understand that most people want their mobile phone to be a whole lot more than a great MS Exchange client, but BBOS and BB10 are both best-in-class in that limited capacity.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[curves2000]

On the earnings conference calls there has been an accelerated decline in the SAF or network revenue fee that BlackBerry got for BBOS. Not too long ago they were modeling a 10-15% a quarter decline in the revenue which is rumored to have 90+ % margin.

The last few quarters the decline has been 25-30% on a smaller base and by the time January 2020 hits it will be much smaller. The devices are getting older and there isn't much in the way replacements available. A huge portion for the BlackBerry 7 devices were sold in the 2011, 2012 time frame and by then your looking at 8 and 9 year devices on what was deemed "old tech" back in 2008.

The idea with John Chen is to have a really nice, high margin and re occurring revenue business by then to replace the SAF fee. You can see the product and the services being developed with the likes of BlackBerry Jarvis which will be a monthly pricing model, BlackBerry Radar which will be $400 revenue for the unit and than monthly after that. There's a lot of runway to go but I am confident they will get there.

If there is still a sizable BBOS base and the fee's being generated are somewhat material, they could always extend it by 6- 12 months but I doubt there will be much left at that point.

Posted via CB10

[Chuck Finley69]

On the earnings conference calls there has been an accelerated decline in the SAF or network revenue fee that BlackBerry got for BBOS. Not too long ago they were modeling a 10-15% a quarter decline in the revenue which is rumored to have 90+ % margin.

The last few quarters the decline has been 25-30% on a smaller base and by the time January 2020 hits it will be much smaller. The devices are getting older and there isn't much in the way replacements available. A huge portion for the BlackBerry 7 devices were sold in the 2011, 2012 time frame and by then your looking at 8 and 9 year devices on what was deemed "old tech" back in 2008.

The idea with John Chen is to have a really nice, high margin and re occurring revenue business by then to replace the SAF fee. You can see the product and the services being developed with the likes of BlackBerry Jarvis which will be a monthly pricing model, BlackBerry Radar which will be $400 revenue for the unit and than monthly after that. There's a lot of runway to go but I am confident they will get there.

If there is still a sizable BBOS base and the fee's being generated are somewhat material, they could always extend it by 6- 12 months but I doubt there will be much left at that point.

Posted via CB10

My point was simply that BB has been operating BBOS and BB10 for different reasons this entire time. BBOS was actual profitable system and business model that has been maintained for that reason with carriers. Sometime between EOL announcement end of last year to 12/31/2019 that will no longer be the case. BB10 has minimal support as required by warranty requirements for devices that were officially sold through OEM sources most recently. BB exited hardware, and is exiting software for these devices regarding all required support on 12/31/2019.

My other point was simply that BB could extend support for either BBOS or BB10 for profit/goodwill motive but that’s completely on the software level. If a BBOS enterprise customer which could be also carrier partner with a large enough BBOS client base, then BB could for the right guaranteed payment to cover expenses and profit component, keep BBOS running for that client.

There’s no real chance of that possibility for BB10 since it’s only been kept running for goodwill and regulatory purposes and never generated profits. It’s reached a point like BBOS where somebody would have to write a check for that same expense/profit component. There’s no real enterprise or carrier that needs to keep BB10 operating. Either party could move to Android/IOS solutions far cheaper. There’s a minute case for BBOS and no case for BB10.

[bb10adopter111]

My point was simply that BB has been operating BBOS and BB10 for different reasons this entire time. BBOS was actual profitable system and business model that has been maintained for that reason with carriers. Sometime between EOL announcement end of last year to 12/31/2019 that will no longer be the case. BB10 has minimal support as required by warranty requirements for devices that were officially sold through OEM sources most recently. BB exited hardware, and is exiting software for these devices regarding all required support on 12/31/2019.

My other point was simply that BB could extend support for either BBOS or BB10 for profit/goodwill motive but that’s completely on the software level. If a BBOS enterprise customer which could be also carrier partner with a large enough BBOS client base, then BB could for the right guaranteed payment to cover expenses and profit component, keep BBOS running for that client.

There’s no real chance of that possibility for BB10 since it’s only been kept running for goodwill and regulatory purposes and never generated profits. It’s reached a point like BBOS where somebody would have to write a check for that same expense/profit component. There’s no real enterprise or carrier that needs to keep BB10 operating. Either party could move to Android/IOS solutions far cheaper. There’s a minute case for BBOS and no case for BB10.

Great post.

As big a fan as I am of BB10, I really have never understood why it wasn't EOL'd by the end of last year. I've always suspected that there were one or more contracts with national government clients that were subsidizing BB10 for the rest of us.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[bb10adopter111]

As I was reading this forum last night, riding the Metro home from the Nats-O's game, I found myself sitting next to a woman playing Solitaire on her Classic.

We started talking about phones, and she told me that her IT team still supports and encourages employees to hold on to their BlackBerry phones (BB10) as long as they can, though Android (Samsung and BlackBerry only) and iPhone are also fully supported.

She said that she owns an iPhone but that she uses it on WiFi only to socialize with her kids, who are in college, on social networks, but that she wouldn't even consider using the iPhone for email or as a phone.

I asked her if she ever wished she had access to better games or apps, and she said, "No. I just play a little mindless Solitaire now and then."

I asked her if she knew about the EOL date at the end of next year. She said, no, she hadn't heard that, but that she would just use her phone until her IT Team told her to return it, then she would ask to keep it for her personal use or buy a used one.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[Chuck Finley69]

As I was reading this forum last night, riding the Metro home from the Nats-O's game, I found myself sitting next to a woman playing Solitaire on her Classic.

We started talking about phones, and she told me that her IT team still supports and encourages employees to hold on to their BlackBerry phones (BB10) as long as they can, though Android (Samsung and BlackBerry only) and iPhone are also fully supported.

She said that she owns an iPhone but that she uses it on WiFi only to socialize with her kids, who are in college, on social networks, but that she wouldn't even consider using the iPhone for email or as a phone.

I asked her if she ever wished she had access to better games or apps, and she said, "No. I just play a little mindless Solitaire now and then."

I asked her if she knew about the EOL date at the end of next year. She said, no, she hadn't heard that, but that she would just use her phone until her IT Team told her to return it, then she would ask to keep it for her personal use or buy a used one.

Posted with my trusty Z10

Exactly. I got frustrated because I couldn't play simple games that I liked anymore because needing to play using data. It's just like kids with XBOX or PS4. They now play this multi-player online crap where everyone needs a console and Internet connection.

Ironically, last year I bought factory unlocked Z3 and Q5 cheap. I've only used on WiFi and never even put in a SIM. The sole purpose was to leave on the end table for CB and games. Whatever.. I laugh because so many here think I hate BB10. I don't hate BB10. For me, it just became inefficient compared to alternative solutions. I'm still thinking about how to minimize the amount of hardware I carry.

[elfabio80]

Great post.

As big a fan as I am of BB10, I really have never understood why it wasn't EOL'd by the end of last year. I've always suspected that there were one or more contracts with national government clients that were subsidizing BB10 for the rest of us.

Posted with my trusty Z10

There are still government/public authority using BB10.... Wheter they will pass to something else soon or not, this information it is not always spread here or to the public.

Posted via CB10

[conite]

There are still government/public authority using BB10.... Wheter they will pass to something else soon or not, this information it is not always spread here or to the public.

Posted via CB10

Exclusively dependent authorities? Doubt it. Certainly not enough to be concerned about.