[passportowner]

That was a simple certificate issue.

Still, they provided a bar file though the official update channels.

So somebody still exists, who have developer tools, who have access to the certs and to the signing keys, who possess the knowledge how to create a bar file, how to sign it and how to publish it, they even found a webadmin who updated the website.

So stop repeating they have nobody because it is clearly wrong.

All of this however doesn't mean that guy will ever start the BB10 developer tools again.

[joeldf]

Still, they provided a bar file though the official update channels.

So somebody still exists, who have developer tools, who have access to the certs and to the signing keys, who possess the knowledge how to create a bar file, how to sign it and how to publish it, they even found a webadmin who updated the website.

So stop repeating they have nobody because it is clearly wrong.

All of this however doesn't mean that guy will ever start the BB10 developer tools again.

The official update channel would have been that BBW update itself. Instead, BlackBerry had to release it on their website and provide some hoop-jumping instructions to install it (for those who don't already know of the tools we discuss of here for sideloading bar files).


Fixing BBW - a standalone app - is a whole different animal from working within the OS to somehow strip out the back end services, BBID, and Protect dependencies. Those are the guys that are long gone.

Maybe there's some old-timer still there who can gather the interns around the campfire and tell stories of how they used to code for this magical OS that was going to save the word of the evils of duopoly.

But would BlackBerry even bother to pay him to do that?

[conite]

Still, they provided a bar file though the official update channels.

So somebody still exists, who have developer tools, who have access to the certs and to the signing keys, who possess the knowledge how to create a bar file, how to sign it and how to publish it, they even found a webadmin who updated the website.

So stop repeating they have nobody because it is clearly wrong.

All of this however doesn't mean that guy will ever start the BB10 developer tools again.

So they have at least one person who can compile a bar file. So can I for that matter. That's a far cry from a group of developers capable of doing OS coding.

[eshropshire]

So they have at least one person who can compile a bar file. So can I for that matter. That's a far cry from a group of developers capable of doing OS coding.

They probably found a developer who was knowledgeable enough to fix a bar file. All of their current developers are working on revenue generating products. Why would they switch them to fix old hw much of which will not work in the USA in 2022 and in most other countries in one or two years.

[Chuck Finley69]

What I wonder is why Chuck spends so much time on Crackberry Forums telling us that BB is dead and a waste of time, blah, blah, blah.

What's your stake in this Chuck, that you have all this time to spend posting about a platform you keep telling is dead and gone?

I'm a professional American grave dancer...

[Sashko]

The HUB will likely still work, but remains in the "will have to wait and see" category when it comes to adding new accounts.

There really isn't a decent alternative for BB10. Your best bet is probably your provider's mobile website.

You'll have a year or two extra time in Canada prior to 3G shutdown.

I'm so confused about these posts talking about 3G relative to the Z10:
1. HSPA in the US & Canada is considered 4G, and I've heard no plans of pulling the plug on it anytime soon

2. The Z10 and all BB10 devices for that matter run on LTE, which is currently the most used technology at the very least in Canada, if not in the world. It's also considered 4G both in North America, and everywhere in the world, and it's not going anywhere anytime soon

Caveat of above statements: HSPA is needed for a BB10 phone to SMS and place calls without a third party app such as Fongo which officially supported BB10 before BB World was shut down, I'm sure an APK that works on BB10 for that and many other similar apps can be found to use as a work-around for this.

Note: I work for operations of one of the big 3 telcos in Canada, so I have quite a bit of info from this point-of-view.

[conite]

I'm so confused about these posts talking about 3G relative to the Z10:
1. HSPA in the US & Canada is considered 4G, and I've heard no plans of pulling the plug on it anytime soon

2. The Z10 and all BB10 devices for that matter run on LTE, which is currently the most used technology at the very least in Canada, if not in the world. It's also considered 4G both in North America, and everywhere in the world, and it's not going anywhere anytime soon

Note: I work for operations of one of the big 3 telcos in Canada, so I have quite a bit of info from this point-of-view.

HSPA is correctly labelled in Canada as 3G+.

Everything below 4G/LTE will be shutdown in Canada at the end of 2025, but with ever-dwindling reception until then as 3G bands are re-farmed to 5G.

At that point, BB10 will no longer be able to do talk and text.

4G/LTE is not to be confused with VoLTE.

[Sashko]

HSPA is correctly labelled in Canada as 3G+.

Everything below 4G/LTE will be shutdown in Canada at the end of 2025, but with ever-dwindling reception until then as 3G bands are re-farmed to 5G.

At that point, BB10 will no longer be able to do talk and text.

4G/LTE is not to be confused with VoLTE.

In Canada & the US, HSPA+ at one point in time worked faster than the first generation if LTE, so it got bundled into 4G. You'll notice that at the top of your phone, when you're on HSPA+, it will be labeled as "H+", then when you're on LTE, it'll show as "L" or "L+".

As an example to this, you'll notice Bell's following support page referring to HSPA+ as 4G: https://support.bell.ca/mobility/net...d?step=5#step5

EDIT: I added a caveat to my previous post, explaining that talk & SMS (text) would require a work-around on BB10.

[conite]

In Canada & the US, HSPA+ at one point in time worked faster than the first generation if LTE, so it got bundled into 4G. You'll notice that at the top of your phone, when you're on HSPA+, it will be labeled as "H+", then when you're on LTE, it'll show as "L" or "L+".

As an example to this, you'll notice Bell's following support page referring to HSPA+ as 4G: https://support.bell.ca/mobility/net...d?step=5#step5

EDIT: I added a caveat to my previous post, explaining that talk & SMS (text) would require a work-around on BB10.

Yes, yes. 3G sometimes displays H+ too depending on your network and location. But NOT 4G/LTE. Either way HSPA will be gone too.

[Sashko]

Yes, yes. 3G sometimes displays H+ too depending on your network and location. But NOT 4G/LTE. Either way HSPA will be gone too.

BTW Virgin has this announcement on m'lady's account, on which she's using a Q10. So they're no longer supported BB10 devices as of Jan 2022. Maybe they have a plan to get rid of HSPA by then as well 🤔

[conite]

BTW Virgin has this announcement on m'lady's account, on which she's using a Q10. So they're no longer supported BB10 devices as of Jan 2022. Maybe they have a plan to get rid of HSPA by then as well

That's just the boilerplate message from BlackBerry regarding its shutting down of all backend services. It shouldn't affect calling on BB10.

/general-blackberry-news-discussion-rumors-f2/blackberry-10-blackberry-os-shutdown-faq-1192266/

[Sashko]

That's just the boilerplate message from BlackBerry regarding its shutting down of all backend services. It shouldn't affect calling on BB10.

/general-blackberry-news-discussion-rumors-f2/blackberry-10-blackberry-os-shutdown-faq-1192266/

I see what you mean.

[Chuck Finley69]

I'm so confused about these posts talking about 3G relative to the Z10:
1. HSPA in the US & Canada is considered 4G, and I've heard no plans of pulling the plug on it anytime soon

2. The Z10 and all BB10 devices for that matter run on LTE, which is currently the most used technology at the very least in Canada, if not in the world. It's also considered 4G both in North America, and everywhere in the world, and it's not going anywhere anytime soon

Caveat of above statements: HSPA is needed for a BB10 phone to SMS and place calls without a third party app such as Fongo which officially supported BB10 before BB World was shut down, I'm sure an APK that works on BB10 for that and many other similar apps can be found to use as a work-around for this.

Note: I work for operations of one of the big 3 telcos in Canada, so I have quite a bit of info from this point-of-view.

HSPA is from a protocol standpoint, 3G and was part of a 3G backhaul effort at same time LTE was being rolled out. When 3G shuts down, HSPA effectively shuts down. The 4G shown for HSPA is like the 5Ge that shows when it’s really part of 4GLTE backhaul enhancements.

[Sashko]

HSPA is from a protocol standpoint, 3G and was part of a 3G backhaul effort at same time LTE was being rolled out. When 3G shuts down, HSPA effectively shuts down. The 4G shown for HSPA is like the 5Ge that shows when it’s really part of 4GLTE backhaul enhancements.

That's true, however the who G lingo is really messed up, hence those of us working for operations refer to the technology when working on it instead of the "G". Although now 5G's technology name is "5G" which is a first, so that's new to us.

[passportowner]

The official update channel would have been that BBW update itself. Instead, BlackBerry had to release it on their website and provide some hoop-jumping instructions to install it (for those who don't already know of the tools we discuss of here for sideloading bar files).

Forgive me if I am wrong, it was long time ago and huge amount of water went down on the Donau since then, so my memories are a bit hazy, but AFAIR I got the update over BBW, the update was available only for a limited time because the cert expiration date, so if this is true, they still know how to publish updates on BBW, so it isn't completely read-only.

Maybe there's some old-timer still there who can gather the interns around the campfire and tell stories of how they used to code for this magical OS that was going to save the word of the evils of duopoly.

But would BlackBerry even bother to pay him to do that?

I would definitely like to hear those stories, if somebody manages a BBQ party I can supply some quality Hungarian snaps. We can sit around the bonfire and listen stories about a better time. I would even pay to hear the stories.
I would even bring my camping gears and sleep there in the middle of the forrest. Because that's what I mostly do. My hobby is to sleep in random locations. Others looking around and this is nice, I am looking around and "I could sleep there and there, nobody would notice at al."
But I am a campingfreak.

[passportowner]

So they have at least one person who can compile a bar file. So can I for that matter. That's a far cry from a group of developers capable of doing OS coding.

While this is true, you can't sign the bar as a system application. And correct me if I am wrong, but they signed the bar.
And also correct me if I am wrong one just cannot modify the BBW bar and install it on the device and get the modified BBW running and working on the device.
Running and working, as supposed.

I think it comes with rights which you cannot grant for an bar, or am I wrong?

[conite]

While this is true, you can't sign the bar as a system application. And correct me if I am wrong, but they signed the bar.
And also correct me if I am wrong one just cannot modify the BBW bar and install it on the device and get the modified BBW running and working on the device.
Running and working, as supposed.

I think it comes with rights which you cannot grant for an bar, or am I wrong?

It's just a matter of signing with the correct key. Anyone doing it within BlackBerry would have no issue. It's completely acedemic.

[passportowner]

But you don't have the correct signing keys, so your earlier comment is not valid. At least not completely, we just don't know how many B10 developer hanging around nowadays at BB.

[conite]

But you don't have the correct signing keys, so your earlier comment is not valid. At least not completely, we just don't know how many B10 developer hanging around nowadays at BB.

My point was that it's a simple thing. Nothing at all like coding an OS update.

[howarmat]

But you don't have the correct signing keys, so your earlier comment is not valid. At least not completely, we just don't know how many B10 developer hanging around nowadays at BB.

Obviously some are around but assigned to other more important things that actually make money. What does that have to do with anything though?

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Obviously some are around but assigned to other more important things that actually make money. What does that have to do with anything though?

And that's the thing people have to face, BlackBerry is this tiny company that has been struggling to stay out of the "RED" and to find ways to grow their income. Legacy products have to be let go.... be it some software solution or support (servers) for devices.

[joeldf]

Forgive me if I am wrong, it was long time ago and huge amount of water went down on the Donau since then, so my memories are a bit hazy, but AFAIR I got the update over BBW, the update was available only for a limited time because the cert expiration date, so if this is true, they still know how to publish updates on BBW, so it isn't completely read-only.

You know, now that you mention it, I think you're right about that.

[GordH]

I'm a professional American grave dancer...

Pretty much what I figured.

Plenty of work for your kind in the contiguous 48 these days. https://www.newgeography.com/content...-stuff-america

[Chuck Finley69]

Pretty much what I figured.

Plenty of work for your kind in the contiguous 48 these days. https://www.newgeography.com/content...-stuff-america

I support modern techniques in manufacturing in the USA but much of that is with automation, robotics and such.

[joeragan]

Remove your BBID from the device soon to avoid problems later on.

Did BlackBerry officially say this in the past?

Or they will just pull the plug and create some paperweights 🤔