[whofrank]

In the latest update the developer wrote a long piece about how bb10 development isn't exactly financially viable.

Be a shame to lose another very good developer but unfortunately it seems the trend.

[magsasaka]

I believe placing ads is the most profitable (?) way for now for developing BlackBerry 10 apps. Even if we don't want it, a consistent source of payment, unlike one time payment, is much better.

Posted via CB10

[abass]

In the latest update the developer wrote a long piece about how bb10 development isn't exactly financially viable.

Be a shame to lose another very good developer but unfortunately it seems the trend.

Hello, I am the developer of the Web Design Cheat Sheet and yes, I did say that. I really appreciate your comment, I really gave this app my all hoping to get a decent return, but the numbers just simply are not there yet for BB10. I cannot speak for ALL developers, because some ARE making money. Though I can tell you with absolute certainty that ANY of the devs making niche apps are not making anything. My mistake was taking something that was such a big passion of mine and trying to share it with others. And when I say my mistake, I mean strictly from a financial standpoint. I am SO UNBELIEVABLY happy and satisfied that I chose to make this type of app because I genuinely enjoyed making it and it has made me SO happy that I have been able to help so many people learn how to code. That is something that I am truly grateful for.

The reason why I got kind of irked is because there are a bunch of people leaving reviews (not just on my app) but they are giving it a star and saying "this app should be free". So many people are under the impression that every developer is making bank from their App, but I will be the first to tell you that we are not. You may see the 400+ five star average reviews on my app and think, wow, this developer must be rolling in money! But that's simply not the case. I have put easily 700 hours of work into this application and have barely made $1 an hour for my efforts. You do the math, I'm getting paid almost 1/10th of minimum wage. But you know what? I didn't get into application development just to try and make a quick buck. I got into it because I simply love BlackBerry and have so much faith in BlackBerry 10. Am I going to completely stop developing for BlackBerry 10 and never come back? Absolutely not. So long as I hit the 10k commitment within the next month (timeframe I have left) then I will continue supporting Web Design Cheat Sheet. I cannot say that I will immediately go and make a new App though. I am a full-time student (last semester of undergrad) and running my own company full-time. I can sell one website for a few thousand dollars by putting 1/10th the amount of time into it as I have for my App. It's just not worth the time monetarily. Though it is and will always be a hobby of mine and I will never stop deving entirely.

Please note that I am in no way complaining by any means. I am just trying to be as realistic as possible (because guess what? Before I got into App dev, I assumed that most devs were making crazy money, so I am simply explaining this because most people are probably making the same assumption that I did.)

I mean you do the math, such a niche application on a platform that has so few users is not going to work out all that well. Give BlackBerry some more time and once it gets more users then I will definitely come back full-force. It's just going to take time, that's all. Also, keep in mind that some incredible devs have shown up lately too, with iGrann, Snap2Chat, Wine, etc. So while some are leaving, others are coming to the platform. Some really amazing apps are being made, don't lose faith. BB Just needs a couple more years and a few more phone sales.

I believe placing ads is the most profitable (?) way for now for developing BlackBerry 10 apps. Even if we don't want it, a consistent source of payment, unlike one time payment, is much better.

Posted via CB10

Placing ads is the least possible monitization strategy. See, this is another large misconception that you learn very quickly when you surround yourself with developer. You need tens of thousands of views in order to make a couple dollars. Those who I know that have ads in their apps were making such a little amount from them that they replaced their ads with ones that advertised their own paid apps instead. The whole Google Adsense option within an app will make you absolutely nothing unless you are getting 10's of thousands of views EACH DAY. On platforms like Android where you can potentially get the 10k views a day is more viable for advertisements. For BB10 it's an absolute joke at the moment simply because those 100+ million users just aren't there yet.

The freemium model is and will continue to be the best method for app revenue. (e.g. my app, it's a free download and you get a lot free, but you have the option to pay to unlock additional content.) Games that have consumables are making decent money because one person might spend $10 on the app over the course of a month without even realizing it. The paid route is also great but ONLY if you are a well known developer who is well respected because only then will people trust you and spend the initial fee to get your app without first being able to try it out.

Another thing that I think WDCS has done to help me out in the future. People know that I am a trustworthy developer and I am respected within the community. I can now mess around with the straight paid app route in the future and my app won't get completely ignored like it does for most new developers. Perfect example of a paid app developer working well is Jerome with Blaq. People know he is an AMAZING developer, therefore he can go and charge $3 right off the bat for his application and people will purchase it.

Trust me, once you get into the developer community you will realize that there is a LOT more than what is seemingly on the outside.

Hopefully this helped, sorry for not seeing this post until a couple days afterwards. I was randomly searching CrackBerry for my app for other reasons and stumbled upon this post haha.

EDIT:

Shameless plug for a website that I JUST made to help promote the app, please spread the link.
I put a LOT of work into it: Web Design Cheat Sheet

[Benjamin Black]

Hello, I am the developer of the Web Design Cheat Sheet and yes, I did say that. I really appreciate your comment, I really gave this app my all hoping to get a decent return, but the numbers just simply are not there yet for BB10. I cannot speak for ALL developers, because some ARE making money. Though I can tell you with absolute certainty that ANY of the devs making niche apps are not making anything. My mistake was taking something that was such a big passion of mine and trying to share it with others. And when I say my mistake, I mean strictly from a financial standpoint. I am SO UNBELIEVABLY happy and satisfied that I chose to make this type of app because I genuinely enjoyed making it and it has made me SO happy that I have been able to help so many people learn how to code. That is something that I am truly grateful for.

[...snip..]

I'm a BlackBerry only developer and totally relate to everything you wrote this absolutely resonates with my own experiences. Thanks for sharing .

Posted via CB10

[SCrid2000]

Thirded (the post above me seconded lol).

[smart548]

Hello, I am the developer of the Web Design Cheat Sheet and yes, I did say that. I really appreciate your comment, I really gave this app my all hoping to get a decent return, but the numbers just simply are not there yet for BB10. I cannot speak for ALL developers, because some ARE making money. Though I can tell you with absolute certainty that ANY of the devs making niche apps are not making anything. My mistake was taking something that was such a big passion of mine and trying to share it with others. And when I say my mistake, I mean strictly from a financial standpoint. I am SO UNBELIEVABLY happy and satisfied that I chose to make this type of app because I genuinely enjoyed making it and it has made me SO happy that I have been able to help so many people learn how to code. That is something that I am truly grateful for.

[Snip]

Nice explanation of everything. I am just wondering why you are not giving CB a chance! Devs like you, Nemory, Knobtviker..(devs who knows how to code and how to exploit BB10 platform) should rely more on the community! Just start a new thread if you gotta something on your mind and you know you can handle that. Put a donate link and then wait for users' comments. If the app is wanted, a lot will donate for sure (as it has happened with iGrann eg). You then decide how much-without being greedy-would you consider a decent amount of money for your work and when you reach 40-50% of that you begin development. The app will be free with chances to make donations on it (so that you can still make money also after the app is released) and with some cool paid premium features.

Posted via CB10

[nhanken]

I totally agree with you! Flip4Bytes you should open up your own thread in the CB forums and introduce yourself and your app to let the community know who you are and what your app does. And as Smart548 mentioned, put a donation link up for apps that are free. I understand that most people are hesitant when it comes to buying paid apps (including myself) because they don't know the developers and/or how the apps are like otherwise it'll be a waste of money due to past encounters with purchasing BAD apps that have left a bitter taste in their mouth (if that's even a way to describe it lol).

Some people are very selfish and expect that everything should be free after buying a phone. I just hope no one expects car makers to include life time supply of gas with the purchase of a new car? LOL. Developers are people who have spent countless hours of hard work and dedication into building an app - these people have a passion for what they're doing!

So Flip4Bytes, please open a topic and introduce yourself to the community and hopefully we all will be able to get to know you better and provide you with some feedbacks! The BlackBerry World is a sea of apps and apps are like fish that are just waiting to be captured! So go out there and swim like a salmon my friend (even if you're just a catfish!) against the water current that prevents you from going upstream!

Nice explanation of everything. I am just wondering why you are not giving CB a chance! Devs like you, Nemory, Knobtviker..(devs who knows how to code and how to exploit BB10 platform) should rely more on the community! Just start a new thread if you gotta something on your mind and you know you can handle that. Put a donate link and then wait for users' comments. If the app is wanted, a lot will donate for sure (as it has happened with iGrann eg). You then decide how much-without being greedy-would you consider a decent amount of money for your work and when you reach 40-50% of that you begin development. The app will be free with chances to make donations on it (so that you can still make money also after the app is released) and with some cool paid premium features.

Posted via CB10

Posted via CB10

[abass]

I totally agree with you! Flip4Bytes you should open up your own thread in the CB forums and introduce yourself and your app to let the community know who you are and what your app does. And as Smart548 mentioned, put a donation link up for apps that are free. I understand that most people are hesitant when it comes to buying paid apps (including myself) because they don't know the developers and/or how the apps are like otherwise it'll be a waste of money due to past encounters with purchasing BAD apps that have left a bitter taste in their mouth (if that's even a way to describe it lol).

Some people are very selfish and expect that everything should be free after buying a phone. I just hope no one expects car makers to include life time supply of gas with the purchase of a new car? LOL. Developers are people who have spent countless hours of hard work and dedication into building an app - these people have a passion for what they're doing!

So Flip4Bytes, please open a topic and introduce yourself to the community and hopefully we all will be able to get to know you better and provide you with some feedbacks! The BlackBerry World is a sea of apps and apps are like fish that are just waiting to be captured! So go out there and swim like a salmon my friend (even if you're just a catfish!) against the water current that prevents you from going upstream!

Posted via CB10

I hear ya and appreciate the feedback. I have started a thread for my app in the past, but being so niche, unless someone who can get use out of it sees it then the thread gets buried.

I'm focusing web/app designers/devs which is not a very big part of the CB community at all, so most people don't care about my app even though I'm positioning it as a learning and reference tool. Many have praised it for helping them learn how to code, but at the end of the day, a niche app on a small platform is going to drown until there are simply more users. I can market to the CB community all I want, but it doesn't seem to give me much return because again, most people don't want to learn how to code here. As much as I love CB and the community, it's not an ideal market for my app, most simply don't care about web design. Which is totally fine!

I have had many requests to bring the app over to Android and iOS, and I genuinely believe it would perform well on those platforms because of the sheer number devs on those platforms and such a gap in an actual premium app for coding. But alas, I am invested in BlackBerry and BB10. I'd rather improve the BB10 app than go and make it for the other major platforms. Maybe I can help bring people back over to BlackBerry by persuading them with my app. I've actually gotten a few emails where people actually purchased a BB10 phone simply because of my app, and that is such a heartwarming feeling. It's so unreal to me because I never thought that my app would have that kind of reach or power. Oh man, how much I just wish that BB10 simply just had the numbers. All I can really do is wait and update the app for all those who purchased it. Marketing only goes so far in a platform that doesn't yet have the numbers.

- Developer of 'Web Design Cheat Sheet' for BB10 (Posted via CB10)

[nhanken]

Web Design Cheat Sheet app by CyberBytes Inc. is your app?

I hear ya and appreciate the feedback. I have started a thread for my app in the past, but being so niche, unless someone who can get use out of it sees it then the thread gets buried.

I'm focusing web/app designers/devs which is not a very big part of the CB community at all, so most people don't care about my app even though I'm positioning it as a learning and reference tool. Many have praised it for helping them learn how to code, but at the end of the day, a niche app on a small platform is going to drown until there are simply more users. I can market to the CB community all I want, but it doesn't seem to give me much return because again, most people don't want to learn how to code here. As much as I love CB and the community, it's not an ideal market for my app, most simply don't care about web design. Which is totally fine!

I have had many requests to bring the app over to Android and iOS, and I genuinely believe it would perform well on those platforms because of the sheer number devs on those platforms and such a gap in an actual premium app for coding. But alas, I am invested in BlackBerry and BB10. I'd rather improve the BB10 app than go and make it for the other major platforms. Maybe I can help bring people back over to BlackBerry by persuading them with my app. I've actually gotten a few emails where people actually purchased a BB10 phone simply because of my app, and that is such a heartwarming feeling. It's so unreal to me because I never thought that my app would have that kind of reach or power. Oh man, how much I just wish that BB10 simply just had the numbers. All I can really do is wait and update the app for all those who purchased it. Marketing only goes so far in a platform that doesn't yet have the numbers.

- Developer of 'Web Design Cheat Sheet' for BB10 (Posted via CB10)

Posted via CB10

[abass]

Web Design Cheat Sheet app by CyberBytes Inc. is your app?

Posted via CB10

Yep, I own CyberBytes Inc. and developed Web Design Cheat Sheet (:

[nhanken]

Even though I know nothing about programming, I am happy to show my support for all your hard work and dedication to BlackBerry 10 by purchasing both the HTML5 and CSS3 =).

I hope to learn some basic coding on my spare time and who knows maybe one day I'll build something from all the wonderful resources that you have built into this app~! Don't give up hope on our small ecosystem!

Yep, I own CyberBytes Inc. and developed Web Design Cheat Sheet (:

Posted via CB10

[SCrid2000]

Yep, I own CyberBytes Inc. and developed Web Design Cheat Sheet (:

He's joking, I actually own the legal rights to the app

[abass]

Even though I know nothing about programming, I am happy to show my support for all your hard work and dedication to BlackBerry 10 by purchasing both the HTML5 and CSS3 =).

I hope to learn some basic coding on my spare time and who knows maybe one day I'll build something from all the wonderful resources that you have built into this app~! Don't give up hope on our small ecosystem!









Posted via CB10

Dude, come on now, you didn't have to do that for me..

Honestly, thank you from the bottom of my heart - you just completely made my night. I love the CB Community.. You guys are the best <3

I'll be spending most of tomorrow working on the JavaScript section, I'm off from class so I'll take advantage of that. Thanks for the motivation nhanken, truly, thank you.

[abass]

He's joking, I actually own the legal rights to the app

I'ma smack you Shane.. Get outta here - you and your crazy lawyer speak!

[nhanken]

I have always wanted to learn some basic HTML & I love how you always describe and give an example for each command. Just like math I can only remember this law or that law by going through examples lol.

I believe one day HTML5 will become the standard for all devices whether people are accessing apps from their desktops, laptops, tablets or cell phones so that developers will only need to code in HTML5 and the Web page layouts will be optimized for whatever devices people are using instead of building a separate app for Android, iOS, BB10, Windows Phone OS, Jolla.... what a nightmare for developers! ;p

Dude, come on now, you didn't have to do that for me..

Honestly, thank you from the bottom of my heart - you just completely made my night. I love the CB Community.. You guys are the best <3

I'll be spending most of tomorrow working on the JavaScript section, I'm off from class so I'll take advantage of that. Thanks for the motivation nhanken, truly, thank you.

Posted via CB10

[qbo]

I love this guy. He's a perfectionist, a trait that I hope more app developer have.

As for financial viability, I can understand where Alex is coming from. Trying to make money in a niche market within a niche platform can be difficult, if not impossible. I have huge respect for Alex for being awesome by pushing out awesome updates after updates.

[abass]

I have always wanted to learn some basic HTML & I love how you always describe and give an example for each command. Just like math I can only remember this law or that law by going through examples lol.

I believe one day HTML5 will become the standard for all devices whether people are accessing apps from their desktops, laptops, tablets or cell phones so that developers will only need to code in HTML5 and the Web page layouts will be optimized for whatever devices people are using instead of building a separate app for Android, iOS, BB10, Windows Phone OS, Jolla.... what a nightmare for developers! ;p

Posted via CB10

Glad to hear it's in a style that is easy for you to learn in! Playing around with an example is definitely a great way to learn, it's how I taught myself web design actually.

And I agree, HTML5 is really the only TRUE universal language. I can't wait for the day that one coding language finally destroys all of the fragmentation currently on the market today. (:

- Developer of 'Web Design Cheat Sheet' for BB10 (Posted via CB10)

[abass]

I love this guy. He's a perfectionist, a trait that I hope more app developer have.

As for financial viability, I can understand where Alex is coming from. Trying to make money in a niche market within a niche platform can be difficult, if not impossible. I have huge respect for Alex for being awesome by pushing out awesome updates after updates.

Oh good ol qbo! Man, I still remember the days of puZZed on my 9930, that app alone saved my @ss on multiple occasions (and due to user-error got me into trouble during class) hahaha

Means a lot coming from you. One of the few devs that also stick with the methodology of quality over quantity. I can say all the same comments to you, definitely the kind of developer that BlackBerry needs more of. Thanks bud (:

- Developer of 'Web Design Cheat Sheet' for BB10 (Posted via CB10)

[dkonigs]

While the lacking numbers of a "smaller" mobile platform may exacerbate the problem, I think the real issue here is that the whole mobile app market has driven prices so low that there's simply no way to make any real money from a niche product. Its quite a shame, since the desktop computing world has a rich history of a lot of essentially "niche" applications that still manage to be profitable. Its just that they've been priced at 10x to 100x what people expect to pay for a mobile app of similar appeal. Meanwhile, mobile apps take a lot more time and effort to develop than people believe.

Frankly, there are a lot of "niche" type applications that I'd love to have on BlackBerry 10. However, at $1-3/ea, there's simply no financial motivation to develop anything that doesn't appeal to at least 75% of the general population.

This could become a totally separate discussion, and might be going off the deep end, but one solution to this is to give up on financial aspirations and just do these projects as F/OSS (free open-source software). Its just that the mobile app market has such pressure (from all sides) for the individual developer to try to make some money from their efforts, rather than collaborate and contribute as a community, that I'm not sure when or if this will happen (outside of Android, maybe). And while there are F/OSS-compatible business models as well, I have no idea how they can usefully be applied to end-user mobile apps.

[abass]

While the lacking numbers of a "smaller" mobile platform may exacerbate the problem, I think the real issue here is that the whole mobile app market has driven prices so low that there's simply no way to make any real money from a niche product. Its quite a shame, since the desktop computing world has a rich history of a lot of essentially "niche" applications that still manage to be profitable. Its just that they've been priced at 10x to 100x what people expect to pay for a mobile app of similar appeal. Meanwhile, mobile apps take a lot more time and effort to develop than people believe.

Frankly, there are a lot of "niche" type applications that I'd love to have on BlackBerry 10. However, at $1-3/ea, there's simply no financial motivation to develop anything that doesn't appeal to at least 75% of the general population.

This could become a totally separate discussion, and might be going off the deep end, but one solution to this is to give up on financial aspirations and just do these projects as F/OSS (free open-source software). Its just that the mobile app market has such pressure (from all sides) for the individual developer to try to make some money from their efforts, rather than collaborate and contribute as a community, that I'm not sure when or if this will happen (outside of Android, maybe). And while there are F/OSS-compatible business models as well, I have no idea how they can usefully be applied to end-user mobile apps.

This is an extremely good point that I completely left out up above. Thank you for bringing it up. It makes me absolutely sick, here's a perfect example: Just the other day I was in line at a Tim Hortons talking to my friend about an app for his phone. He then proceeded to complain to me about having to pay $2 for the app even though it is very useful and quite frankly, he needed it. He then proceeds to purchase a coffee for $1.87 which he consumes in less than an hour and doesn't even realize how ridiculous the conversation is that we had.

This mindset needs to change. I think it has to do with so many apps on Android and iOS claiming themselves as "FREE" so everyone comes to expect that for everything. While my friends will drop $60 at the drop of a hat to purchase a game for their XBOX yet won't drop $3-4 on an incredible game for their phone because it's "too expensive" is just absolutely beyond me. Such a shame, it's really destroying the niche App market at a time when BlackBerry REALLY needs them.

[SCrid2000]

I'ma smack you Shane.. Get outta here - you and your crazy lawyer speak!

Best watch yourself, or I'll tell everyone about the human rights violations involved in making your app.

[Superfly_FR]

Well, I must admit you have several points here.
I've developed a free small app (game) using HTML5 and while the start was fine (20K DL, thanks notabily to a review here), I had to stop its development because I had to rethink the way I made it.
- some features I wanted to include had to wait until 10.2.1 went gold (just done)
- the way I thought I'd monetize it when finished (i.e far from what it is now) was irrelevant.

I believe the outright paying app is a model of the past.
Nowadays, even with BlackBerry users, you have to give before you take. Not that I like it, that's just the way it is.
From what I've read and found about current apps, the best model would be to include paying contents and in-line ads.
Paying contents for a game is a no brainier, as it is naturally attached to bonuses, extra levels, goodies or whatever.
Regarding ads, I believe it's more complex and both situation and contents is a concern. I'd hate to have a headband, that's so penalizing and disgraceful, but I could consider ads full page during levels loading sequences, for instance. Of course, these ads must be removable, so that paying users won't have it.

Donation button is also an option, but should be considered alone, never mixed IMHO.

I'm waiting for February when I will have some free time to get back to code and get things done ... then I'll advertise about it and maybe I'll be back here to talk about my final choices.

P.S: Flip4Bites, your app is cool ! Thanks for that

[qbo]

Well, I must admit you have several points here.
I've developed a free small app (game) using HTML5 and while the start was fine (20K DL, thanks notabily to a review here), I had to stop its development because I had to rethink the way I made it.
- some features I wanted to include had to wait until 10.2.1 went gold (just done)
- the way I thought I'd monetize it when finished (i.e far from what it is now) was irrelevant.

I believe the outright paying app is a model of the past.
Nowadays, even with BlackBerry users, you have to give before you take. Not that I like it, that's just the way it is.
From what I've read and found about current apps, the best model would be to include paying contents and in-line ads.
Paying contents for a game is a no brainier, as it is naturally attached to bonuses, extra levels, goodies or whatever.
Regarding ads, I believe it's more complex and both situation and contents is a concern. I'd hate to have a headband, that's so penalizing and disgraceful, but I could consider ads full page during levels loading sequences, for instance. Of course, these ads must be removable, so that paying users won't have it.

Donation button is also an option, but should be considered alone, never mixed IMHO.

I'm waiting for February when I will have some free time to get back to code and get things done ... then I'll advertise about it and maybe I'll be back here to talk about my final choices.

P.S: Flip4Bites, your app is cool ! Thanks for that

You are right in saying devs need to give before we ask for money and I think it's completely acceptable. Alexs' coffee scenario is great reason why. When someone's buying a cup of coffee, they generally know what they'll get and they know and are comfortable enough to ask for a refund if the quality is terrible. When an app asks for $2 without a trial, I can understand why users might be more hesitant to purchase it than a cup of coffee. Some people venture off and try a new drink at a new cafe once in a while but the reality is, most don't. This is exactly why I believe brand value is extremely important in app market.

To improve this situation for devs who don't really care about building brands but still have one awesome app, you can again look at the coffee example. Just like you'll try a new drink at a new coffee joint when a friend or many friends recommend it, if you can see your bbm contacts' recommendation (reviews, number of bbm friends downloaded, etc.) on an app when you visit the app description page, people will be more willing to take the risk. Plus, more often than not, they'll find themselves enjoying their purchase.

Google does this amazingly in google play store but their only problem is, you'll rarely find an app your google+ friend recommended because there's just so many apps..

Developer of Corky Notes, Lazy Lists, and MAKE

[nhanken]

Don't worry he'll treat you better when his business is booming & BlackBerry's user base grows exponentially like the good old days =)

Best watch yourself, or I'll tell everyone about the human rights violations involved in making your app.

You were like some of those annoying kids nowadays who attend lectures only to have their eyes glued to Facebook and Instagram? ;p

In my country, we used to get spanked with rulers (the ones made for spanking!) in the good old days if we misbehaved in class ;p

Oh good ol qbo! Man, I still remember the days of puZZed on my 9930, that app alone saved my @ss on multiple occasions (and due to user-error got me into trouble during class) hahaha

Means a lot coming from you. One of the few devs that also stick with the methodology of quality over quantity. I can say all the same comments to you, definitely the kind of developer that BlackBerry needs more of. Thanks bud (:

- Developer of 'Web Design Cheat Sheet' for BB10 (Posted via CB10)

HTML5 is the way to go =)

Glad to hear it's in a style that is easy for you to learn in! Playing around with an example is definitely a great way to learn, it's how I taught myself web design actually.

And I agree, HTML5 is really the only TRUE universal language. I can't wait for the day that one coding language finally destroys all of the fragmentation currently on the market today. (:

- Developer of 'Web Design Cheat Sheet' for BB10 (Posted via CB10)

Posted via CB10

[smart548]

Just purchased the CSS extension mate ;-) Have to build a project for my university and it is about web technologies: already used your app but now I have to use html5 and css3-->update neeeded :-P

Posted via CB10