01-02-14 04:17 AM
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  1. BuzzStarField's Avatar
    As a dev, I think it is pretty ridiculous I can just reject any review, though, I admit, I use it. I got a review "Awesome. I really like this app" 2/5 (?!). Rejected! Why on earth would you give an app you really like a failing grade? But really, who am I to be the sole gatekeeper to pass judgement? It's another person whose opinion deserves to be heard, even if I think it is ********. The problem is, there's no way in app world to review the review. If someone writes a malicious review and everyone who tries the app thinks it its dead wrong they can't vote down or send any reliable signal to someone who hasn't tried it yet (think amazon. 0/45 people found this review useful). Ideally, it'd borrow elements from the android market where reviews are edited and posted instantly and people can rate reviews. Until the problem is fixed, this is unfortunately a band-aid solution that's highly prone to misuse.

    Basically, it should be a little more democratic.
    I once got a 5-star review with title "Awsome" and with the body containing a device PIN and an invitation to contact the reviewer. For some reason, I asked BBRY to remove this one.
    05-07-13 08:45 PM
  2. diegonei's Avatar
    As a sidenote, even if the dev pulls the review off, the rating still counts towards the final rating of the app. That's not ideal, but there's protecting the costumer.

    So, if you guys see an app with 4 5 star reviews and an overall rating of 1.5... You know what's going on.

    That said. I like that we can pull them off. Have you guys ever noticed how many of the reviews have NOTHING to do with the app? Most are PINs, coplaints (not even valid ones, mostly) or random crap.
    schmeat and Techno-Emigre like this.
    05-07-13 08:49 PM
  3. Gerry Oster's Avatar
    Do you think it would be OK if auto companies could pull crash tests they did not like. Or drug companies could kill research they dud not like. You need to have more faith in the marketplace. Pulling reviews you don't like, no matter the reason, is wrong and no developer should be able to do this.
    05-07-13 08:58 PM
  4. diegonei's Avatar
    Do you think it would be OK if auto companies could pull crash tests they did not like. Or drug companies could kill research they dud not like. You need to have more faith in the marketplace. Pulling reviews you don't like, no matter the reason, is wrong and no developer should be able to do this.
    I'm not debating if it i right or wrong. I'm just pointing that there are cases where it is useful and that the overall rate of the app is not affected. If you see an app with 10 five stars reviews, and it had 100 one star reviews (but they were taken down by the dev) the app rate will still be 1.5 (10x5+100x1=150. 150/110=1.36, which gets rounded up to 1.5). Taking reviews off will have no impact on that.
    05-07-13 09:13 PM
  5. Brian Ouellette's Avatar
    I had the same problem with one of my apps. I used the same signing key and it still would crash. Users had to uninstall and reinstall losing their data. I am going to have to include a database backup function just in case this happens again.

    And yes, they gave me one star reviews. Really sad

    Posted via CB10 with the Dev Alpha C
    05-07-13 09:16 PM
  6. FortyTwoApps's Avatar
    As a sidenote, even if the dev pulls the review off, the rating still counts towards the final rating of the app. That's not ideal, but there's protecting the costumer.

    So, if you guys see an app with 4 5 star reviews and an overall rating of 1.5... You know what's going on.
    I don't think that's the case in app world. That's the case in the vendor portal, but I believe what is reflected in the actual store is only based on the posted reviews.
    05-07-13 09:19 PM
  7. diegonei's Avatar
    I don't think that's the case in app world. That's the case in the vendor portal, but I believe what is reflected in the actual store is only based on the posted reviews.
    Na, tust me.

    You can see all reviews in the vendor portal, even the shot down ones, but the rating takes all of them into account.
    05-07-13 09:24 PM
  8. FortyTwoApps's Avatar
    Na, tust me.

    You can see all reviews in the vendor portal, even the shot down ones, but the rating takes all of them into account.
    Have you compared your vendor portal stars to the app world stars on an app you've denied reviews? My picture elements app is 4.5 in app world (both desktop and from device), and 4 in vendor portal. (I deny old reviews that have a single complaint that has been addressed in updates, such as the lack of ability to sign in to your 500px.com account, so that people don't think that its still an issue.)


    If you have a lot of 4-5 star reviews, and only a couple of denied 1-2 star reviews, then the average might still work out to be the same, but the store definitely doesn't factor in denied reviews.
    05-07-13 09:36 PM
  9. Deathcommand's Avatar
    You can request them to take the review down. If the review is really dumb, like, "it sucks because it's an android app" and 1 star, i think it's a good idea. Or "i don't know what this does" and 5 stars.

    Posted via Dec Alpha C
    05-07-13 09:41 PM
  10. madx80h's Avatar
    I had the same problem with one of my apps. I used the same signing key and it still would crash. Users had to uninstall and reinstall losing their data. I am going to have to include a database backup function just in case this happens again.

    And yes, they gave me one star reviews. Really sad

    Posted via CB10 with the Dev Alpha C
    See, those 1 star reviews seem justified based on what you just wrote. The app crashes and users lose their data? If that doesn't deserve a low rating, what does?

    Posted via CB10
    05-07-13 10:03 PM
  11. Brian Ouellette's Avatar
    You can request them to take the review down. If the review is really dumb, like, "it sucks because it's an android app" and 1 star, i think it's a good idea. Or "i don't know what this does" and 5 stars.

    Posted via Dec Alpha C
    I hate seeing the hate because it is an android app. BlackBerry has made a fine runtime for android developers on BB10. I am able to get great speeds for a game I am making in android. Looking forward to Jelly Bean.

    Also I get too many reviews by people who don't understand how my app works. I have a point of sale app. One review literally said, "Just a glorified calculator with words." and proceed with a half star rating.

    Wow. Thanks for rating my free version. You forgot to mention you can save inventory and departments and see reports too.

    I think I denied that review because of the inaccuracy of it.

    But just goes to show...people like to troll.


    Posted via CB10 with the Dev Alpha C
    05-07-13 10:05 PM
  12. wfubball's Avatar
    Just to note that some reviews get auto denied by the system because of keywords, bad language or posting your pin number or many other things. Its not always the developers fault. If reviews get auto denied the dev has to go in and approve them if for whatever reason the review was flagged.
    05-07-13 10:11 PM
  13. UberschallSamsara's Avatar
    Do you think it would be OK if auto companies could pull crash tests they did not like. Or drug companies could kill research they dud not like. You need to have more faith in the marketplace. Pulling reviews you don't like, no matter the reason, is wrong and no developer should be able to do this.
    Totally disagree.

    First, you're comparing running an app to activities that are orders of magnitude more dangerous (unless you're one of those people who are so hypersensitive that a crashed app hurts your feelings to the point of having a nervous breakdown).

    Second, the app review denial process is there to raise the signal to noise ratio of the overall marketplace, which benefits developers and app consumers. All the cowardly anonymous poo flingers who leave a 1 star review with no more substantial of a comment than "Sux" are just filling the air with noise and making it harder to differentiate app quality, which leads to market failure. While it sounds like your denied review was not of such low quality, you need to understand that there is in fact a vast seamy underbelly of clueless users who do leave 1-star poo-flings, and the carriers are all too happy to sell anyone w/the money in their hand a smartphone; no IQ test required.

    Third, while the review denial feature isn't perfect, developers have much more reputational skin in the game than any given faceless reviewer. For the tiny minority of developers who may choose to abuse the review denial mechanism, word will probably get around through other channels, such as these forums.

    Fourth, developers get blamed for everything, even if the problem was caused by RIM, or the carrier, or any number of other things completely outside of the developer's control. I've gotten 1 star reviews on other platforms that said things like (and I am not making this up) "My phone has a weak signal". You should remember that BB10 is still very new and there *ARE* OS bugs. And RIM is working on them. And once bug fixes are made, the carriers still have to test and approve them for OTA rollout.

    Fifth, another way your car crash test and drug testing result analogy is completely out of line is there are tens or hundreds of thousands of apps for folks to sort through and users pretty much have to use search-and-rank to find what they want. And if the rank results are getting distorted by the automatic ingestion of reviews from unaccountable 1-star poo flingers, that serves no one.

    Sixth, reviewing app reviews is time consuming and nobody has a more vested interest in doing it than the app developer. If a developer is serious about growing a business by serving users then of course he's going to look at his reviews and has an incentive to weed out noise. Who else is going to do it? Nobody, that's who. And by the way, personally, I really don't give a flip if you're polite or not in reviewing my app - you could be as @ss-kissy as you want to be in saying my app "sux" and I'd still deny it if you couldn't be bothered to explain why, or you could call me a j@ckass for xyz detailed bug description and I'd let the review stand and fix the damn bug.

    TL;DR: outrage about the fact that app reviews can be denied by developers is a misplaced knee jerk reaction. No system is perfect, but if most of the participants can act like thoughtful grownups, it can work pretty well.
    05-07-13 11:26 PM
  14. Gerry Oster's Avatar
    This is great. It sounds like a nice little benign dictatorship. "Trust us, we're doing this in your best Interest". Where I draw the line, dear friends, is the fact that this guy is selling his app and taking money for it. That's where he crosses the linen by not engaging in full disclosure.
    05-07-13 11:40 PM
  15. Brian Ouellette's Avatar
    Totally disagree.

    First, you're comparing running an app to activities that are orders of magnitude more dangerous (unless you're one of those people who are so hypersensitive that a crashed app hurts your feelings to the point of having a nervous breakdown).

    Second, the app review denial process is there to raise the signal to noise ratio of the overall marketplace, which benefits developers and app consumers. All the cowardly anonymous poo flingers who leave a 1 star review with no more substantial of a comment than "Sux" are just filling the air with noise and making it harder to differentiate app quality, which leads to market failure. While it sounds like your denied review was not of such low quality, you need to understand that there is in fact a vast seamy underbelly of clueless users who do leave 1-star poo-flings, and the carriers are all too happy to sell anyone w/the money in their hand a smartphone; no IQ test required.

    Third, while the review denial feature isn't perfect, developers have much more reputational skin in the game than any given faceless reviewer. For the tiny minority of developers who may choose to abuse the review denial mechanism, word will probably get around through other channels, such as these forums.

    Fourth, developers get blamed for everything, even if the problem was caused by RIM, or the carrier, or any number of other things completely outside of the developer's control. I've gotten 1 star reviews on other platforms that said things like (and I am not making this up) "My phone has a weak signal". You should remember that BB10 is still very new and there *ARE* OS bugs. And RIM is working on them. And once bug fixes are made, the carriers still have to test and approve them for OTA rollout.

    Fifth, another way your car crash test and drug testing result analogy is completely out of line is there are tens or hundreds of thousands of apps for folks to sort through and users pretty much have to use search-and-rank to find what they want. And if the rank results are getting distorted by the automatic ingestion of reviews from unaccountable 1-star poo flingers, that serves no one.

    Sixth, reviewing app reviews is time consuming and nobody has a more vested interest in doing it than the app developer. If a developer is serious about growing a business by serving users then of course he's going to look at his reviews and has an incentive to weed out noise. Who else is going to do it? Nobody, that's who. And by the way, personally, I really don't give a flip if you're polite or not in reviewing my app - you could be as @ss-kissy as you want to be in saying my app "sux" and I'd still deny it if you couldn't be bothered to explain why, or you could call me a j@ckass for xyz detailed bug description and I'd let the review stand and fix the damn bug.

    TL;DR: outrage about the fact that app reviews can be denied by developers is a misplaced knee jerk reaction. No system is perfect, but if most of the participants can act like thoughtful grownups, it can work pretty well.
    +1

    Also could not have said it better myself.

    Posted via CB10 with the Dev Alpha C
    05-07-13 11:50 PM
  16. UberschallSamsara's Avatar
    You may or may not be aware of this but there are BB10 OS bugs that cause random app crashes, some of which have been fixed, and it's up to the carriers to roll out the OTA's. RIM does not and can not fully test every function of every app, but they will not approve an app for release if it crashes on start. It sounds to me from your limited description that you may have hit this (OS) bug and if that's the case then sorry, it's not the developer's fault and it's unfair for you to demand to be able to besmirch that developer. Best course of action would be for you to contact the developer and RIM with your detailed OS info and detailed version info for the app in question. Hey, you're the one who said you're interested in fairness. Fairness is a two way affair and it's not always simple.
    05-07-13 11:52 PM
  17. KermEd's Avatar
    Lol.

    Just to be clear. We "report" a review. RIM reviews it and chooses to pull it.

    However, sometimes your reviews are automatically banned by RIM based on content or types of reviews you've done before.

    The only people who can verify are the developer or RIM.

    It's not a good thing but there are plenty of dirty developers who do it. The flip side is you can always get a refund at least.

    Posted via CB10
    05-07-13 11:55 PM
  18. goster48's Avatar
    To those of you who are developers and so actively defending your ability to deny unfavorable reviews....................wake up and smell the coffee. If you don't, it will be the death of this platform. If users like me cannot trust the reviews for apps--especially those that I have to pay for--out of fear that some developers may be "juicing" them, then I am just going to say "screw it" and stop buying all apps. At the end of the day, it does not matter whether my carrier, the OS, or the app is at fault. The only thing that matters is that I have a new Z10 that I got from my carrier, I paid for this app, and it won't run on the device. The discussion should end there. At the risk of being repetitive, my review was fair and accurate. It simply reported what happened. If there are developers out there who think that potential purchasers should not have access to this information, and that you should be able to pull whatever reviews you don't like, shame on you.
    05-08-13 06:33 AM
  19. goster48's Avatar
    You may or may not be aware of this but there are BB10 OS bugs that cause random app crashes, some of which have been fixed, and it's up to the carriers to roll out the OTA's. RIM does not and can not fully test every function of every app, but they will not approve an app for release if it crashes on start. It sounds to me from your limited description that you may have hit this (OS) bug and if that's the case then sorry, it's not the developer's fault and it's unfair for you to demand to be able to besmirch that developer. Best course of action would be for you to contact the developer and RIM with your detailed OS info and detailed version info for the app in question. Hey, you're the one who said you're interested in fairness. Fairness is a two way affair and it's not always simple.
    It is indeed very simple if you want to take my money and sell me a product. It should do what has been promised. I did contact the developer, and he said that others have been reporting the problem, and that he did not know how to fix it (that was 3 weeks ago, and a new version of the app has not been posted). You seem to assume that fairness demands that BB users should buy meal tickets for developers. Unbelievable!
    05-08-13 06:39 AM
  20. KermEd's Avatar
    Also. Just so everyone knows, appworldbilling@rim.com (might have changed since bbry rebranding - but it's in my order email) can issue refunds..

    Enough refunds should raise a red flag for bbry as they process them manually.

    Ed

    Posted via CB10
    Barljo likes this.
    05-08-13 06:48 AM
  21. BuzzStarField's Avatar
    It is indeed very simple if you want to take my money and sell me a product. It should do what has been promised. I did contact the developer, and he said that others have been reporting the problem, and that he did not know how to fix it (that was 3 weeks ago, and a new version of the app has not been posted). You seem to assume that fairness demands that BB users should buy meal tickets for developers. Unbelievable!
    What is unbelievable is that you do not seem to grasp the idea that the bug that you encountered might be impossible for the developer to fix. It's a problem that requires a system update.

    Let me reiterate:: You are right to expect an app to work and you should request a refund. But you should also try to see the other side of the story. The BB World review process is broken. It is not working for consumers and it is not working for developers. It is true that some developers are taking advantage of BBRY's lax policies. On the other hand, your continued attempts to brand all developers as crooks serves no purpose. BBRY should fix the problems without delay. BBRY also needs to find a way to speed up carrier approvals for system upgrades that allow efficient delivery of our apps to consumers. Given that BBRY does not seem to be in a hurry to fix the problems, you are wrong to blame the developer in this case. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
    UberschallSamsara and Barljo like this.
    05-08-13 07:29 AM
  22. goster48's Avatar
    What is unbelievable is that you do not seem to grasp the idea that the bug that you encountered might be impossible for the developer to fix. It's a problem that requires a system update.

    Let me reiterate:: You are right to expect an app to work and you should request a refund. But you should also try to see the other side of the story. The BB World review process is broken. It is not working for consumers and it is not working for developers. It is true that some developers are taking advantage of BBRY's lax policies. On the other hand, your continued attempts to brand all developers as crooks serves no purpose. BBRY should fix the problems without delay. BBRY also needs to find a way to speed up carrier approvals for system upgrades that allow efficient delivery of our apps to consumers. Given that BBRY does not seem to be in a hurry to fix the problems, you are wrong to blame the developer in this case. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
    Let's be clear--I did not (and would not) state that all developers are "crooks". I think the vast majority are talented, honest, and hard-working. That's not the issue. The issue is honesty and fairness. If I go into a restaurant and get sick from a meal I ordered, the source might be something that the owner of the restaurant unknowingly bought from one of his suppliers. But, at the end of the day, we hold the restaurant accountable, and if we write a review of it stating that we got sick the last time we ate there, we would not think it fair if the owner worked behind the scenes to ensure that the review never got posted or published. I am not blaming the developer for the problem. It could well indeed be the OS. The issue is that he should not have pulled down honest reviews that mentioned what the app was doing to Z10s. It's as simple as that.
    05-08-13 07:42 AM
  23. BuzzStarField's Avatar
    Let's be clear--I did not (and would not) state that all developers are "crooks". I think the vast majority are talented, honest, and hard-working. That's not the issue. The issue is honesty and fairness. If I go into a restaurant and get sick from a meal I ordered, the source might be something that the owner of the restaurant unknowingly bought from one of his suppliers. But, at the end of the day, we hold the restaurant accountable, and if we write a review of it stating that we got sick the last time we ate there, we would not think it fair if the owner worked behind the scenes to ensure that the review never got posted or published. I am not blaming the developer for the problem. It could well indeed be the OS. The issue is that he should not have pulled down honest reviews that mentioned what the app was doing to Z10s. It's as simple as that.
    Fair enough. Did you request a refund yet? If not, can I ask to to put a link in your request pointing following thread in the BBRY development forums? I think that if you take the time to scan the posts in this thread, you will understand that we are as frustrated by this situation as you are.

    BB10: app not starting, damaged app installation? - BlackBerry Support Community Forums
    05-08-13 08:17 AM
  24. goster48's Avatar
    I'd be more than happy to do that--but I have no idea how to request a refund due to a faulty app. It's certainly not a fact that RIM or developers highlight. Can you please direct me to where I can do this? I am almost positive I cannot do so from the device. Thanks.
    05-08-13 08:27 AM
  25. DivideBYZero's Avatar
    Cool your jets. Apple do this too.
    05-08-13 08:29 AM
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