[BonfireSoft]

I am a developer and can confirm that I cannot automatically pull down a review. If I do not agree with the review - I can press "Deny" button in Vendor Portal. This will start a review process that usually takes 2-5 days. During this time review will be looked at by a person from BB World - who will then make a final decision whether to pull the review down.

I have had at least 1 occurrence when my request to deny a review was itself denied and review was left to stand (although it deserved to be pulled down - 1 stat with comment "improve quality" when the vast majority of reviews were 5 stars). Thus, someone does look at these requests.

[BonfireSoft]

P.S. I agree that the process is flawed, though:

1) There is no way for developer to issue refunds
2) There is no way to contact / respond to poor review to somehow remedy the situation

[BuzzStarField]

I'd be more than happy to do that--but I have no idea how to request a refund due to a faulty app. It's certainly not a fact that RIM or developers highlight. Can you please direct me to where I can do this? I am almost positive I cannot do so from the device. Thanks.

To tell the truth, very few developers know the official way to get a refund. This is another symptom of BBRY's utter failure to support developers so that they can help their customers. Until recently, and I only have experience with PlayBook apps with respect to refunds, the email address that KermEd gave in an earlier post ([email protected]) did the trick. I suggest that you try this address and let us know what happens. BBRY also provides a form at the following address which is to be used only if your payment method is PayPal or credit card.

https://consumersupport.webapps.blac...rce/main?ln=en.

If you pay for apps via carrier billing, you need to send an email to your carrier directly. Note also that BBRY's official policy is that they don't give refunds unless it is mandated by local legislation. However, I have never known them to refuse if you ask nicely and explain that you should not have to pay for an app that won't work. I hope this helps and thanks for taking this step.

[Mwanahabari]

I reviewed mireo about the constant freezing. Mine and others reporting the same fault have all been removed. All this tells me is you cannot trust the reviews on BlackBerry App store.

Posted via CB10

[kb1234]

Cray cray

Posted via unlocked Z10 on T-Mo in SoCal

[papped]

This again? Seems to come up every time someone realizes this is the case lol. It's always been that way.

This......

Posted via CB10

[UberschallSamsara]

It is indeed very simple if you want to take my money and sell me a product. It should do what has been promised. I did contact the developer, and he said that others have been reporting the problem, and that he did not know how to fix it (that was 3 weeks ago, and a new version of the app has not been posted). You seem to assume that fairness demands that BB users should buy meal tickets for developers. Unbelievable!

Total misrepresentation. The point is that if users have a bad experience with an app and are boiling over with the need to vent spleen and they don't care who they spray, it almost always lands on the developer, whether they caused the issue, or RIM cause the issue, or the carrier caused the issue. And as per my first, longer post, there are plenty of reviews that are useless noise, that drag down app ratings undeservedly, and distort the market. That's why app ratings can be denied. The denial process is not for the purpose of gaming the system, although it could be used for that. If RIM is doing their job well they will likely pick up on developers who show a pattern of abuse. But taking an absolute stance that review denials should never be allowed is basically saying you don't give a damn about developers getting sprayed. And believe me, I'm a free market guy. If I write an app that's poor or buggy and it gets reviewed poorly on things that are under my control, the reviews stand and that's the way it goes. I don't think you read my posts very well, with that "meal ticket" comment.

[Xopher]

Let's be clear--I did not (and would not) state that all developers are "crooks". I think the vast majority are talented, honest, and hard-working. That's not the issue. The issue is honesty and fairness. If I go into a restaurant and get sick from a meal I ordered, the source might be something that the owner of the restaurant unknowingly bought from one of his suppliers. But, at the end of the day, we hold the restaurant accountable, and if we write a review of it stating that we got sick the last time we ate there, we would not think it fair if the owner worked behind the scenes to ensure that the review never got posted or published. I am not blaming the developer for the problem. It could well indeed be the OS. The issue is that he should not have pulled down honest reviews that mentioned what the app was doing to Z10s. It's as simple as that.

Did you list your OS version and carrier in your review? To be a fair review, if it is working on one device and failing on another, which is probably an OS issue, then you really need to list more than "it crashes my phone". The point being, it doesn't crash everybody's phone.

One of the other problems is that reviews are not editable. If you experienced a problem that was later fixed with an OS update, or an app update, there is no way for the reviewer to edit their review to sat "it works now". So, if you write a review saying that it doesn't work, that gets stuck there forever, even if the issue gets fixed. Would it be fair to keep that review there when the issue no longer exists?

[goster48]

I gotta tell you, I find it amazing that so many developers apparently are sitting around drinking the Kool Aid. The extent of total misrepresentation is rather unbelievable. I was not "boiling over with the need to vent spleen". My review was not "useless noise", "dragging down app ratings undeservedly", and "distorting the market". In fact, before I posted anything, I exchanged at least 6 or 7 friendly emails with the developer, through which he was trying to help me solve the problem. At the end of the day, however, he said he could not -and did not have time time to--fix the problem. He also told me that others had complained of it. It was at that point that I posted a straightforward factual review, in which I gave his app one star. Regardless of the reason, his app did not work on my new Z10. All other apps I have work on the device. It is rather unbelievable that you feel I am being unfair by thinking that he should not be able to pull my review, You must think you deserve a "meal ticket" if all reviews have to be favorable.

[dj_matty_s]

All this tells me is you cannot trust the reviews on BlackBerry App store.

+1

Posted via CB10

[stitch69]

what about the idiots at slylab mobilesystems?
they never replied any of my emails and removed my review for an app thaat refused to work even though i spent days trying to get to to work.

9.99USD won't make me poor but these fools have no principle.

[KermEd]

I posted how to get refunds at the top. Just reply to the email you get from RIM on purchasing.

I'd you say this app doesn't work and I want my money back, they will refund.

I get bad reviews all the time. I just don't care about pulling them down as 95% of my apps are free.

But you get some really bad ones. I've had 1 star review for games that just said "make Netflix". I left that review it makes me feel good

Posted via CB10

[Xopher]

I gotta tell you, I find it amazing that so many developers apparently are sitting around drinking the Kool Aid. The extent of total misrepresentation is rather unbelievable. I was not "boiling over with the need to vent spleen". My review was not "useless noise", "dragging down app ratings undeservedly", and "distorting the market". In fact, before I posted anything, I exchanged at least 6 or 7 friendly emails with the developer, through which he was trying to help me solve the problem. At the end of the day, however, he said he could not -and did not have time time to--fix the problem. He also told me that others had complained of it. It was at that point that I posted a straightforward factual review, in which I gave his app one star. Regardless of the reason, his app did not work on my new Z10. All other apps I have work on the device. It is rather unbelievable that you feel I am being unfair by thinking that he should not be able to pull my review, You must think you deserve a "meal ticket" if all reviews have to be favorable.

Your problem is with one developer. You may be justified with being upset with that person, but lumping all developers into this does not help the situation.

Is the problem based on the OS version on your Z10? Is it a BlackBerry World problem? Did you put enough detail in your review so that the BlackBerry employee verifying the flag could see you were justified? Maybe the BlackBerry employee saw the flag, loaded the app and didn't have any problems, so they denied the review thinking it was probably user error. You can complain here all you want, and if it is something we can help with, there are plenty here willing to help. If you want your review to stay visible, you need to make sure you put enough detail in it.

Posted via CB10

[dmaxing]

Ditto that, common sence.

[imz]

I've written some positive reviews and those haven't shown up either lol

Posted via CB10

[xmasberry]

Do you think it would be OK if auto companies could pull crash tests they did not like. Or drug companies could kill research they dud not like. You need to have more faith in the marketplace. Pulling reviews you don't like, no matter the reason, is wrong and no developer should be able to do this.

Not that I disagree with the overall idea that reviews shouldn't be able to be hidden (I really like the idea of being able to rate the review) but comparing measurable, verifiable data to subjective, relatively anonymous statements of opinion/emotion is not a very good analogy.

[Brian Ouellette]

There are some flaws with how Blackberry World works. But overall it is okay. What would make things better is for Developers to reply to reviews. More often then not, a user will use the review process to submit bugs reports. That's great if you want to let other users know there is a bug. But to the developer who can do something about it, a "App crashes" does not help.

I suppose they assume they get their email address or something.

Now, if a developer can reply to a review, it will allow a notification to the original reviewer and new purchasers can see it. for example:

Reviewer: "Great app so far, but a bug is there that wont calculate correctly" 3/5 stars.
Developer: "Thank you for the review, I have submitted a new version that will fix this error"

Simple, effective, and allows for more sales because customers will know the developer is working on the app. More app sales lead to more money for BB as well. :P

[papped]

The issue isn't whether you think it's valid or not. It's that this subject is rehashing old crap like it was just discovered for the 1000000 time... it's like the daily news on TV warning you about somethinf

Posted via CB10

[UberschallSamsara]

I gotta tell you, I find it amazing that so many developers apparently are sitting around drinking the Kool Aid. The extent of total misrepresentation is rather unbelievable. I was not "boiling over with the need to vent spleen". My review was not "useless noise", "dragging down app ratings undeservedly", and "distorting the market". In fact, before I posted anything, I exchanged at least 6 or 7 friendly emails with the developer, through which he was trying to help me solve the problem. At the end of the day, however, he said he could not -and did not have time time to--fix the problem. He also told me that others had complained of it. It was at that point that I posted a straightforward factual review, in which I gave his app one star. Regardless of the reason, his app did not work on my new Z10. All other apps I have work on the device. It is rather unbelievable that you feel I am being unfair by thinking that he should not be able to pull my review, You must think you deserve a "meal ticket" if all reviews have to be favorable.

You're conflating two things:

1) The extremist/absolutist view in your thread title ("Rim lets developers pull reviews they do not like! This has to stop!").
2) Your personal experience with a particular app and developer.

Quick example to illustrate #1:

Suppose you're looking for some niche app - maybe something that does specialized calculation xyz for whatever field you work in - and you do a search and rank for it in BB World. And as luck would have it, several developers have thought of a way to address that niche, and you have several apps to choose from, some free and some paid. But since it's niche, there just aren't that many users and hence not that many reviews. Suppose further that the best of the bunch is a paid app, but for whatever reason, its star rating has been dragged down by a few 1-star "sux" type reviews. The app might be just what you need, but you never look at it because it's only got three stars, and all those reviews "have" to stay, in order for the market to be "fair". Fair to whom? Anyone? How does a 1 star review that says only "sux" help you, the consumer, especially if it keeps you from finding what you need? Who wins in this situation? Anyone? The useless noise reviews are out there and easy to find - not all devs bother to flag all the vandals for denial.

As for #2, we got from your opening post that you didn't do a 1-star "sux"/meaningless noise review. But your thread is basically calling for all such 1-star "sux"/meaningless reviews to stay. My read is that both you and the dev handled it ok, but not great. If an app fails for you but not other users, and especially if the app fails on launch, that should automatically raise a flag for you that the root cause could be somewhere outside the app (OS bug, corrupted OTA install, etc.) (Fail on launch is a criterion for RIM denying an app for release - you should never see this unless RIM erroneously approved the app, or, as has been discussed here and elsewhere, there is an OS bug that is hard/impossible to recreate by RIM app testing during app approval process.) If it were my app, I doubt I would have flagged your review for denial if it was as detailed as you say it was, and I probably would have pulled the app from sale until I could determine the cause of the problem. Obviously an OS bug fix or an OTA rollout that a carrier is holding back for whatever reason is completely out of the developer's hands, but you've said effectively that "I had a bad experience, and regardless of who caused it, I need to lay it at the developer's feet."

And, again with the "meal ticket" thing. I was clear from my first post that my criterion for denying a review is that the review contains no useful information, not that it includes negative comments - i.e. it just says "sux"/"won't work", with zero information to help anyone - devs or users - to decide how or why it "sux" or what they tried to do that "won't work". Where you got the idea that I think all reviews have to be favorable is a mystery, and the comment was a cheap shot.

[Concession]

The issue isn't whether you think it's valid or not. It's that this subject is rehashing old crap like it was just discovered for the 1000000 time... it's like the daily news on TV warning you about somethinf

Posted via CB10

Why yes. It suddenly stops being a problem because it has existed for an extended period of time. I suppose you would be happy with shutting down all discourse on the subject?Many people discover it and are independently outraged because it is ridiculous.

Reviews are supposed to be a forum for users to share their opinion and consult those of other users about the software in question so they can make an informed decision; however, that's not what it is. Devs alone are given the ability to express disatisfaction with reviews by preventing people from seeing them in the first place. Essentially, people only see the reviews the software maker wants them to see and they (as well as BlackBerry) have a strong insentive to only show reviews that are favourable. When users do their research in the reviews, what they see are reviews the dev wants them to see, not necessarily what the users what them to see. That's the problem.

Devs being able to reply is the exact same problem. You only see the dev's opinion which, as I mentioned before, has a very strong incentive to cast the software in a favourable light. Frankly, when a user consults a review, they don't care about what the dev thinks. That's in the app description. Many devs here have this strange view that reviews for their app serve as a primary form of advertising. They really don't. That's the app description, screenshots, blog posts, videos, etc. Reviews are for opinion giving and collecting. As I mentioned before, I'd like it if RIM was inspired by Amazon's system where users can rate reviews and users are encouraged to put the most trust in reviews many people have rated.

Posted via CB10

[UberschallSamsara]

As I mentioned before, I'd like it if RIM was inspired by Amazon's system where users can rate reviews and users are encouraged to put the most trust in reviews many people have rated.
Posted via CB10

Totally agree. This entire issue has come up on other platforms, with a virtual parallel universe of the same characters and opinions. And devs have been calling for Amazon style reviewing on BB World and other platforms for ages. I have no idea why it hasn't happened yet. The existing review denial process, when used properly, is IMO a weak approximation of what we could have with Amazon style reviewing. Again, the 1-star "sux" poo flingers are doing a disservice to *everyone* in the marketplace - devs *and* consumers.

[papped]

Many devs here have this strange view that reviews for their app serve as a primary form of advertising. They really don't. That's the app description, screenshots, blog posts, videos, etc.

Posted via CB10

You really don't know what sells apps at all....

Posted via CB10

[Pain]

On the iOS/Android app stores, you can write anything you want on the review. You spent your money/time to get the product so you're free to write whatever you think about it for others to read. That is how it should be.

As I said on pg one, I am very disappointed that this is still going on. Meanwhile we have users here on crackberry reporting how some apps are posting pictures on facebook without their consent and their reviews not being published.

I think that if the word gets out, this is going to hurt the small not so well known developers. Once people see/realize what you're doing, they'll either be tempted to leave the BB platform or look for an alternative solution. One option would be to just purchase the big name apps that are available on other operating systems such as jetpack joyride and tunein radio.

[Stephen C.]

This is very bad because it unfair to the BlackBerry users who purchased the applications without update.

I can easily name the list of the apps and developers.

Posted via CB10

[goster48]

Thanks to some of the other BB users who are weighing in on this. It is apparent---and sad--that some developers apparently feel that they should have the right to "sanitize" reviews of their apps and take money from people who might not otherwise purchase their products. If BB users start seeing the reviews more like "infomercials" and not honest, unedited comments by those who have purchased and used apps, this will be big trouble for the entire BB platform and those who are developing apps for it. I would also note--for those of you who have commented that this is "old hat"--that I have been a BB user for several years, and always assumed that the reviews were honest and could be trusted. Just because you knew that the reviews could be doctored does not mean that everyone else knows. So this issue definitely deserves the airing that it has been getting on CB.