02-19-19 07:05 PM
62 123
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  1. joeldf's Avatar
    I might have thought that too prior to the 2014 WiFi incident, which is why I brought it up. Frankly, we have no idea what other services or features "phone home".
    What about the various sensors that started failing in late 2013.

    After a few days, BlackBerry said "we need to do something on our end..."

    What? What does my accelerometer have to do with the BB servers?

    Turned out, more than we thought (guess someone had to reboot the ol' PS/2 Model 90).

    Not everyone had that sensor issue - I didn't, somehow - but I did have the wi-fi issue when that happened.
    02-18-19 06:06 PM
  2. Golfdriver97's Avatar
    Well I am pretty OK as the story ends. It's been good days but it's over. No problem with that.

    I am only interested to this particular app. Having the ability to sideload it would ultimately solve any problems for those who are going to move to a never phones a bit easier. So having a .bar for that app file is the only thing which is important right now.
    Can the contact information be exported? That way you can import any way you choose, be it a cloud backup or just as a file?
    02-18-19 08:59 PM
  3. conite's Avatar
    What about the various sensors that started failing in late 2013.

    After a few days, BlackBerry said "we need to do something on our end..."

    What? What does my accelerometer have to do with the BB servers?

    Turned out, more than we thought (guess someone had to reboot the ol' PS/2 Model 90).

    Not everyone had that sensor issue - I didn't, somehow - but I did have the wi-fi issue when that happened.
    Quite right. That was another mysterious server-side issue that affected seemingly unrelated functions on BB10 devices.
    02-18-19 09:07 PM
  4. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    Can the contact information be exported? That way you can import any way you choose, be it a cloud backup or just as a file?
    Check this app out Golfdriver:

    https://appworld.blackberry.com/webs...02894/?lang=en

    ContactsImEx is a native app that lets you export your contacts to CSV or VCF. Very spiffy. All credit to @Ragbert for making me at least aware of the app in the first place.

    You can also use the Android app Ghost Commander to export contacts via its ability to launch Android apps (and thus the Android version of contacts) and export to VCF.
    02-18-19 09:08 PM
  5. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    True on the ancillary services, but then they specifically cited examples of those services.... "such as the BlackBerry World app store (12/31/2019), the BlackBerry Travel site (February 2018), and the Playbook video calling service (March 2018)." Given that Blackberry ID services were not cited in that list (nor were Protect, Blend, etc), I'm inclined to think that those services will keep going.

    It's possible Blackberry Limited may decide to phase these other services out, or make further announcements...and it's theoretically possible they may shut down some things without notice, though unlikely based on past behavior. My main argument is that BB10 devices will not be bricks. All BB10 users should be aware of potential risks and limitations/issues of using the OS, and I'm all for disclosing that. I just think it should be done in a straightforward way that doesn't make them think their devices WILL be bricks at any time because BBL might "do something."
    But why keep those services going? For how long? There is a cost to BlackBerry, and it's more than one VM running on some spare server in the basement that no one will need to ever mess with. My hope is that it will be a slow shutdown process over the next few years... but it's just a hope. Could be the slow shutdown process started in 2016 with the announcement to developers and we are nearing the end of the process.

    You say BB10 users should be aware of the potential risks, but you refuse to accept what those risks might be. I don't think phones will be bricks, but I don't rule it out either - maybe a 10% chance. I don't think all services will end by 2020, but I don't rule it out either - maybe a 40% chance.

    Maybe you think the odds are better than that... maybe some think they are worse than that. Point is none of use knows for sure.... Personally I don't see any upside to risking a bet on it.
    02-19-19 09:01 AM
  6. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    But why keep those services going? For how long? There is a cost to BlackBerry, and it's more than one VM running on some spare server in the basement that no one will need to ever mess with. My hope is that it will be a slow shutdown process over the next few years... but it's just a hope. Could be the slow shutdown process started in 2016 with the announcement to developers and we are nearing the end of the process.

    You say BB10 users should be aware of the potential risks, but you refuse to accept what those risks might be. I don't think phones will be bricks, but I don't rule it out either - maybe a 10% chance. I don't think all services will end by 2020, but I don't rule it out either - maybe a 40% chance.

    Maybe you think the odds are better than that... maybe some think they are worse than that. Point is none of use knows for sure.... Personally I don't see any upside to risking a bet on it.
    For one thing, I'm not sure you're correct about the cost being more than one VM running on a server in the basement. As you may know, there are many many many companies around the world that have old servers running VMs that have services no one connects to anymore because the cost of retiring them is actually more than the cost of keeping them going. I suspect that if the cost was significant to Blackberry we'd already have those services/servers shut down, or at the very least mentioned specifically as were BBW and items as obscure as the Playbook video calling service.

    As for BB10 users and the potential risks, I absolutely accept the viable, possible risks involved. However, I also evaluate risk based on the available evidence that such a negative outcome might come to pass. I have tested BB10 devices with no BBL infrastructure. They work perfectly as it relates to built-in apps, native sideloaded apps, and Android apps that meet the appropriate requirements. This tells me the risk of a device becoming a brick is so minimal as to be statistically and practically insignificant. Therefore I am ruling that out, because in that specific case, I do know for sure.

    I think it's unlikely that BBID infrastructure goes down, but it is possible. The major downside to that is the inability to make and restore backups of app data, which combined with the lack of BBW means no more ability to download native apps. I'm working on ways to address that, but it's absolutely a risk and one people should know about.

    I think it's all a question of what you're willing to risk. If you know with certainty that you will have apps you need after 12/31/2019 and your phone will work (which can be known), it's not much of a risk. With that said, if you're still unsure and you want to have a backup iPhone or Android device, knock yourself out. I'm always a fan of backups, as I've said repeatedly. I am not a fan of scaring people into thinking things that are untrue are true in an attempt to get them to switch devices.
    i_plod_an_dr_void likes this.
    02-19-19 03:17 PM
  7. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    For one thing, I'm not sure you're correct about the cost being more than one VM running on a server in the basement. As you may know, there are many many many companies around the world that have old servers running VMs that have services no one connects to anymore because the cost of retiring them is actually more than the cost of keeping them going. I suspect that if the cost was significant to Blackberry we'd already have those services/servers shut down, or at the very least mentioned specifically as were BBW and items as obscure as the Playbook video calling service.

    As for BB10 users and the potential risks, I absolutely accept the viable, possible risks involved. However, I also evaluate risk based on the available evidence that such a negative outcome might come to pass. I have tested BB10 devices with no BBL infrastructure. They work perfectly as it relates to built-in apps, native sideloaded apps, and Android apps that meet the appropriate requirements. This tells me the risk of a device becoming a brick is so minimal as to be statistically and practically insignificant. Therefore I am ruling that out, because in that specific case, I do know for sure.

    I think it's unlikely that BBID infrastructure goes down, but it is possible. The major downside to that is the inability to make and restore backups of app data, which combined with the lack of BBW means no more ability to download native apps. I'm working on ways to address that, but it's absolutely a risk and one people should know about.

    I think it's all a question of what you're willing to risk. If you know with certainty that you will have apps you need after 12/31/2019 and your phone will work (which can be known), it's not much of a risk. With that said, if you're still unsure and you want to have a backup iPhone or Android device, knock yourself out. I'm always a fan of backups, as I've said repeatedly. I am not a fan of scaring people into thinking things that are untrue are true in an attempt to get them to switch devices.
    I think biggest attempt is to keep people from switching to BB10 at this point since logically, it’s the uninformed and technically challenged that would buy a device with official announced EOL 10 months away. Not debating what happens after 12/31/2019, as I have no idea. Average person, you think, would see EOL and decide that phone is cheap because it’s a gamble.

    Unfortunately, some less fortunate people, can buy the BB10 hardware not fully understanding the gamble and be the ones least able to afford to gamble in the first place.
    02-19-19 03:28 PM
  8. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    I think biggest attempt is to keep people from switching to BB10 at this point since logically, it’s the uninformed and technically challenged that would buy a device with official announced EOL 10 months away. Not debating what happens after 12/31/2019, as I have no idea. Average person, you think, would see EOL and decide that phone is cheap because it’s a gamble.

    Unfortunately, some less fortunate people, can buy the BB10 hardware not fully understanding the gamble and be the ones least able to afford to gamble in the first place.
    Or those people are buying BB10 because they want something different from Android and iOS. But yes, we should certainly keep people fully informed--truthfully so--about the features and downsides to the platform.
    02-19-19 03:32 PM
  9. conite's Avatar
    I am not a fan of scaring people into thinking things that are untrue are true in an attempt to get them to switch devices.
    No one here gives a rat's behind what smartphone one ultimately chooses to use.

    Steering newcomers and novices away from BB10 is an honest, learned, prudent suggestion by those who are just trying to help.

    For much the same reasons, I would not suggest Windows Mobile or WebOS either.

    As a side note, no one is predicting a brick on Jan 1 - only that service shutdowns may have unknown and potentially significant side effects (as already demonstrated by WiFi-gate and sensor-gate).
    02-19-19 03:52 PM
  10. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    No one here gives a rat's behind what smartphone one ultimately chooses to use.

    Steering newcomers and novices away from BB10 is an honest, learned, prudent suggestion by those who are just trying to help.
    For people who don't care what smartphone one ultimately chooses to use, it's amazing how many posts steer newcomers and novices towards GooBerry devices made by Blackberry Mobile.

    But as for being an honest, learned, prudent suggestion....for those asking what platform they should switch to because they're tired of Blackberry 10, your assertion is correct and entirely valid. For those asking how to keep using Blackberry 10 because they want to, or because they don't care about its limitations, or because they just like the Passport's form factor, trying to steer them away is not helping them. It's trying to convince them that their decisions are wrong, sometimes by scaring them into thinking their devices may stop working at any time.

    If you want to honestly tell people about the positive and negative features of Blackberry 10, that's great. However, the honest, learned, prudent suggestion is the one that says "You can do this, here's how, let us know if you need any further help...but be aware of these things that may cause you trouble." That is not what often comes from many posters here.
    02-19-19 03:59 PM
  11. conite's Avatar
    For people who don't care what smartphone one ultimately chooses to use, it's amazing how many posts steer newcomers and novices towards GooBerry devices made by Blackberry Mobile.

    But as for being an honest, learned, prudent suggestion....for those asking what platform they should switch to because they're tired of Blackberry 10, your assertion is correct and entirely valid. For those asking how to keep using Blackberry 10 because they want to, or because they don't care about its limitations, or because they just like the Passport's form factor, trying to steer them away is not helping them. It's trying to convince them that their decisions are wrong, sometimes by scaring them into thinking their devices may stop working at any time.

    If you want to honestly tell people about the positive and negative features of Blackberry 10, that's great. However, the honest, learned, prudent suggestion is the one that says "You can do this, here's how, let us know if you need any further help...but be aware of these things that may cause you trouble." That is not what often comes from many posters here.
    This is not about OS preference.

    This is not about providing tech support for BB10 users.

    This is about steering prospective buyers away from an EOL platform when asked for an opinion and/or cautioning existing users in having a plan B in case of service disruption or termination. Nothing wrong with that.

    And, as a BlackBerry fan site, I would generally not be surprised that the current BBMo devices would receive a disproportionate number of recommendations.
    02-19-19 04:04 PM
  12. Bla1ze's Avatar
    Enough with the talking in circles.
    BigBadWulf and Dunt Dunt Dunt like this.
    02-19-19 07:05 PM
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