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02-19-19 07:05 PM
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  1. EFats's Avatar
    I "need" my phones, so I have several BB10 phones kicking around, just in case.
    I don't view BB10 going EOL as being all that significant for my usage.

    Look, my Symbian phones were EOL a long time ago, they still work short of the carriers shutting down 3G services. I have old Android 6 phones which are EOL but they also continue to work. I've got older iPhones, unsupported, which also still work.
    Unlike my Bold devices which are dependent on BIS, as far as anyone knows, BB10 is not dependent on any proprietary infrastructure (except perhaps BBID sign on?)

    Phones may die from hardware failure at any time, this is not specific to BlackBerry. Carriers might obsolete 4G coverage one day. But that day is not this year... in fact none of my phones have ever physically died. Ever. That includes my very first Sony with the jog dial 20 years ago.

    Plan for the worse but to assume the likely scenario is that all BB10 phones will crash and burn or just simply stop working come January 1, 2020 is probably not realistic.
    If you are still using BB10 now, likely you will be able to carry on in 2020.

    (Yeah that OneDrive thing was a bit of a bummer, but the way I see it, not even my Windows 10 phone had that level of integration, so I'm just falling back to everyone else's level now)
    02-16-19 06:43 PM
  2. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Ultimate Backup is your friend here ajohansson. While it is not currently available outside of BBW, Runisoft (the app developers) are selling it via promo code, which suggests that they will continue to support it for some time and/or release the .BAR when BBW shuts down.

    Go to Home and check them out...well worth the investment as a native BB10-based backup solution. It will also export data such as contacts, etc. to .csv.

    While I won't go into all of Troy's points here, I will say that while more backups are always better than fewer and I support backing up to as many sources as possible, there is no current reason to believe that anything other than Blackberry World will be shut down as of 12/31/2019.
    I’ve sat back and watched the volleys between you, Troy and conite. I’m having a difficult time understanding why you’re pushing the, BB10 is alright, nothing's wrong on the BB10 front, agenda. For experienced users, BB10 is good until it’s not good anymore. Whatever breaks now, doesn’t appear to be getting fixed, now, if ever... This isn’t a knock on BBL since they’ve hung in longer than anyone expected. Seriously doubt, if they shut it down tomorrow, any significant repercussions would take place.

    That being said, you’ve mentioned several times about, prospective BB10 users, and how they’re being misinformed...

    Nobody that would consider using BB10 at this point, has any business using BB10 at this point. Anybody that would use BB10 for the first time now, pending EOL announced 14 months ago, is seriously a novice and severely technologically naive and uninformed. The complete opposite that would describe an early adopter....

    Just around Christmas, neophyte came on the boards having bought a Passport without realizing the limitations compared with Android/IOS regarding the ecosystem. By reading on CrackBerry that people were running APKs etc without understanding 4.3 vs above requirements, the person bought a Christmas gift for someone. Realizing after the fact the limitations, the person was furious. Last week, another person came on here thinking Android could be installed on Passport or Classic and that person had IT background. Again, unsatisfied and mad at BlackBerry.

    We have a saying here, and that’s, “So there’s still a chance”, when it come to BB10 and it’s survival, whatever that means to each individual. When you post here about the BB10 success and helping etc, you mean the best and do help. So do others like conite and Bla1ze. Others like myself and Troy are past helping the many BB10 neophytes. I’m really not technically inclined to begin with and don’t see the benefit at this point for neophytes.

    I’ve spent my life in a segment of sales that many people abhor to point of loathing me and my peers. The point is because when people ask for help and guidance, they only choose to remember or follow, the get rich, get cheap and get free part of the explanation. I’ve been a stockbroker/retirement planner for 27 years. I haven’t called myself a stockbroker for 25 years and retirement planner is the current title for the last five years. Nothing has changed, just perceptions of clients and the industry. There was at least six titles in between. What hasn’t changed is the need to be more honest with people than ever before.

    People are now at the stage with BB10 to be grasping for any positive statement. We’re here to help people. Sometimes the best help is to save people from themselves. The positive statement is to let them know, there’s nothing here for them anymore, since we don’t know what’s going to happen good or bad..... Giving false hope or biased opinions isn’t helping. I used to bash people for BB10 usage and racked up penalties and suspensions here. I’ve avoided penalties for awhile now, so I know I’m being fair....

    Helping people isn’t always giving them what they want to hear. Many times it’s saying what needs to be said, however blunt or abrasive....
    Ben xfg, Dunt Dunt Dunt and skrble like this.
    02-16-19 08:38 PM
  3. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    I’ve sat back and watched the volleys between you, Troy and conite. I’m having a difficult time understanding why you’re pushing the, BB10 is alright, nothing's wrong on the BB10 front, agenda. For experienced users, BB10 is good until it’s not good anymore. Whatever breaks now, doesn’t appear to be getting fixed, now, if ever... This isn’t a knock on BBL since they’ve hung in longer than anyone expected. Seriously doubt, if they shut it down tomorrow, any significant repercussions would take place.

    That being said, you’ve mentioned several times about, prospective BB10 users, and how they’re being misinformed...

    Nobody that would consider using BB10 at this point, has any business using BB10 at this point. Anybody that would use BB10 for the first time now, pending EOL announced 14 months ago, is seriously a novice and severely technologically naive and uninformed. The complete opposite that would describe an early adopter....

    Just around Christmas, neophyte came on the boards having bought a Passport without realizing the limitations compared with Android/IOS regarding the ecosystem. By reading on CrackBerry that people were running APKs etc without understanding 4.3 vs above requirements, the person bought a Christmas gift for someone. Realizing after the fact the limitations, the person was furious. Last week, another person came on here thinking Android could be installed on Passport or Classic and that person had IT background. Again, unsatisfied and mad at BlackBerry.

    We have a saying here, and that’s, “So there’s still a chance”, when it come to BB10 and it’s survival, whatever that means to each individual. When you post here about the BB10 success and helping etc, you mean the best and do help. So do others like conite and Bla1ze. Others like myself and Troy are past helping the many BB10 neophytes. I’m really not technically inclined to begin with and don’t see the benefit at this point for neophytes.

    I’ve spent my life in a segment of sales that many people abhor to point of loathing me and my peers. The point is because when people ask for help and guidance, they only choose to remember or follow, the get rich, get cheap and get free part of the explanation. I’ve been a stockbroker/retirement planner for 27 years. I haven’t called myself a stockbroker for 25 years and retirement planner is the current title for the last five years. Nothing has changed, just perceptions of clients and the industry. There was at least six titles in between. What hasn’t changed is the need to be more honest with people than ever before.

    People are now at the stage with BB10 to be grasping for any positive statement. We’re here to help people. Sometimes the best help is to save people from themselves. The positive statement is to let them know, there’s nothing here for them anymore, since we don’t know what’s going to happen good or bad..... Giving false hope or biased opinions isn’t helping. I used to bash people for BB10 usage and racked up penalties and suspensions here. I’ve avoided penalties for awhile now, so I know I’m being fair....

    Helping people isn’t always giving them what they want to hear. Many times it’s saying what needs to be said, however blunt or abrasive....
    At this point, I'm unsure what is permitted to be said in response to this post, so I'll just say this: helping people is telling them the truth. The truth is that Blackberry 10 will continue to work past 12/31/2019. There are of course various limitations in using Android apps and the like, and those should be fully disclosed. However, stating or implying that Blackberry 10 devices may shut down or cease to work at any time is not helping people--it's scaring them into changing devices.
    mikael11 likes this.
    02-18-19 05:08 AM
  4. mh1983's Avatar
    At this point, I'm unsure what is permitted to be said in response to this post, so I'll just say this: helping people is telling them the truth. The truth is that Blackberry 10 will continue to work past 12/31/2019. There are of course various limitations in using Android apps and the like, and those should be fully disclosed. However, stating or implying that Blackberry 10 devices may shut down or cease to work at any time is not helping people--it's scaring them into changing devices.
    Thanks, Trumpet. You're a breath of fresh air on these forums and it's obvious you're just trying to help people and leave it up to them whether they use BB10 or another platform.

    Posted via CB10
    02-18-19 09:06 AM
  5. conite's Avatar
    stating or implying that Blackberry 10 devices may shut down or cease to work at any time is not helping people--it's scaring them into changing devices.
    But it DOES help. It insures that they keep a plan B at the ready - particularly if they depend on their smartphone 24/7.

    Any BB10 aficionado will not be scared off. But prospective new nontechnical users probably will - and should be.

    Windows Mobile phones still "work", but I would no more suggest to a lay person that it would be a smart buy as a primary, essential device.
    Last edited by conite; 02-18-19 at 09:27 AM.
    john_v likes this.
    02-18-19 09:06 AM
  6. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    Thanks, Trumpet. You're a breath of fresh air on these forums and it's obvious you're just trying to help people and leave it up to them whether they use BB10 or another platform.

    Posted via CB10
    You're quite welcome mh. I do what I can to try and assist, and will continue to do so until they ban me or they pry my BB10 devices from my cold dead fingers.
    02-18-19 09:25 AM
  7. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    But it DOES help. It insures that they keep a plan B at the ready - particularly if they depend on their smartphone 24/7.

    Any BB10 aficionado will not be scared off. But prospective new nontechnical users probably will - and should be.

    Windows Mobile phones still "work", but I would no more suggest to a lay person that it would be a smart buy as a primary device.
    @Chuck Finley69

    And this is a perfect example of the difference between the BB10 naysayers and people like me.

    conite, BB10 users no more need a Plan B than do Android or iPhone users. The device WILL continue to work, even without any BBL infrastructure (which, again, we have no reason to believe will shut down). This is known and confirmed.

    Prospective new non-technical users should have the choice of platform they wish to use and should be fully informed about that choice. I inform them. Others scare them--and have just admitted that that's what they're trying to do.

    I leave it to the individual user to determine which is actually "help."
    02-18-19 09:30 AM
  8. conite's Avatar
    BB10 users no more need a Plan B than do Android or iPhone users.
    This is where we diverge. I will always be biased toward resilience and uptime.

    The absence of information does not satisfy my conditions for either.

    I will once again remind you about the BlackBerry server-side issue that caused widespread WiFi issues on BB10 devices back in 2014. Clewley himself was out in front of that one, and pushed for fairly quick action at BlackBerry. "This is top investigation for us at the moment and I'm driving the teams hard" - Clewley, June 4 2014.

    Turns out that BB10 devices pinged BlackBerry servers when connecting to WiFi to verify it works. When the servers were down, devices couldn't authenticate and reported no connection "limited WiFi". When Clewley got the servers running again, WiFi was reestablished on BB10 devices around the world.

    These are the little bombs I'm worried about. That's why I would never, ever say " it WILL work". I'm more prudent.
    Last edited by conite; 02-18-19 at 11:17 AM.
    02-18-19 09:54 AM
  9. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Right now the BlackBerry Content Transfer app is MIA from Google Play.... and if you visit the official Content Transfer website, you find a LOT of dead links.

    Maybe it comes back, and maybe it doesn't... but it's another example of the difficulties ones will face with a dying platform - and waiting to the very last to move on.
    02-18-19 11:06 AM
  10. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    This is where we diverge. I will always be biased toward resilience and uptime.

    The absence of information does not satisfy my conditions for either.

    I will once again remind you about the BlackBerry server-side issue that caused widespread WiFi issues on BB10 devices back in 2014. Clewley himself was out in front of that one, and pushed for fairly quick action at BlackBerry. "This is top investigation for us at the moment and I'm driving the teams hard" - Clewley, June 4 2014.

    Turns out that BB10 devices pinged BlackBerry servers when connecting to WiFi to verify it works. When the servers were down, devices couldn't authenticate and reported no connection "limited WiFi". When Clewley got the servers running again, WiFi was reestablished on BB10 devices around the world.

    These are the little bombs I'm worried about. That's why I would never, ever say " it WILL work". I'm more prudent.
    And since you brought it up in this thread as well, I'll reiterate my answer: I had no trouble with wireless using BB10 devices during that time, and that explanation contradicts every known behavior of wifi technology.

    To draw the same analogy I used in the other thread: is it possible for something catastrophic (like, say, DNS failures causing much of the Internet to go down) to happen? Sure it is. Is it likely, or even technically possible based on everything we know now? No, it is not.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by TrumpetTiger; 02-18-19 at 02:12 PM. Reason: Grammar is important!
    i_plod_an_dr_void likes this.
    02-18-19 01:37 PM
  11. Thud Hardsmack's Avatar
    And since you brought it up in this thread as well, I'll reiterate my answer: I had no trouble with wireless using BB10 devices during that time, and that explanation contradicts every known behavior of wifi technology.

    To draw the same analogy I used in the other thread: is it possible for something catastrophic (like, say, DNS failures causing much of the Internet to go down) to happen? Sure it is. Is it likely, or even technically possible based on everything we know now? No, it is not.

    Posted via CB10
    It still happened, no matter what your opinion is. When all but one type of device works on a network, it's the device having the problem, not the network.
    Ecm likes this.
    02-18-19 02:15 PM
  12. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    It still happened, no matter what your opinion is. When all but one type of device works on a network, it's the device having the problem, not the network.
    I asked conite about this, so I'll go ahead and ask you too Fret: did anyone from BBL (then still just Blackberry) ever issue a technical explanation about this? I find it difficult to believe that something so contradictory to known principles of technology happened without explanation (and apparently only happened to some people and not others), but if someone can cite an official word from Blackberry on it I will be happy to look at it further.
    02-18-19 02:17 PM
  13. Thud Hardsmack's Avatar
    I asked conite about this, so I'll go ahead and ask you too Fret: did anyone from BBL (then still just Blackberry) ever issue a technical explanation about this? I find it difficult to believe that something so contradictory to known principles of technology happened without explanation (and apparently only happened to some people and not others), but if someone can cite an official word from Blackberry on it I will be happy to look at it further.
    Took me all of 5 seconds to find this BlackBerry's limited Wi-Fi issue needs to be fixed now so it shouldn't be terribly difficult to look up more yourself.
    02-18-19 02:25 PM
  14. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    Took me all of 5 seconds to find this BlackBerry's limited Wi-Fi issue needs to be fixed now so it shouldn't be terribly difficult to look up more yourself.
    That link contains an official statement from Blackberry that they corrected whatever this issue theoretically was with 10.3, so thank you for providing that, but there is no technical explanation from Blackberry in that article.

    While I could look up more myself, I'm the one wanting additional evidence from you, not the other way around, so in lieu of someone providing it I'll go back to my original answer:

    This seems unusual, it was fixed with a subsequent OS update, and there is no technical possibility of future issues given everything we know and have tested about Blackberry 10 devices without BBL infrastructure.
    02-18-19 02:32 PM
  15. conite's Avatar

    there is no technical possibility of future issues given everything we know and have tested about Blackberry 10 devices without BBL infrastructure.
    Would you have said that about WiFi before it failed in 2014?

    Nobody can be absolutely certain about anything after 2019 (or even before if things break).
    02-18-19 02:44 PM
  16. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    Would you have said that about WiFi before it failed in 2014?

    Nobody can be absolutely certain about anything after 2019 (or even before if things break).
    In 2014, I would not have tested BB10 devices as thoroughly as I have now, so I would not have said that, no.

    Nobody can be absolutely certain about anything with any mobile device. Trying to suggest that BB10 is any different in this regard, given what we know now, is simply scare tactics (which you have admitted in a previous post).
    i_plod_an_dr_void likes this.
    02-18-19 03:06 PM
  17. conite's Avatar
    In 2014, I would not have tested BB10 devices as thoroughly as I have now, so I would not have said that, no.

    Nobody can be absolutely certain about anything with any mobile device. Trying to suggest that BB10 is any different in this regard, given what we know now, is simply scare tactics (which you have admitted in a previous post).
    You would not have been able to test for that. It took us ALL by surprise when it happened.

    I never said I was engaged in scaring people, but that the truth itself should scare off prospective buyers if they were looking for a dependable primary device well into 2019 and beyond.
    02-18-19 03:16 PM
  18. Thud Hardsmack's Avatar
    That link contains an official statement from Blackberry that they corrected whatever this issue theoretically was with 10.3, so thank you for providing that, but there is no technical explanation from Blackberry in that article.

    While I could look up more myself, I'm the one wanting additional evidence from you, not the other way around, so in lieu of someone providing it I'll go back to my original answer:

    This seems unusual, it was fixed with a subsequent OS update, and there is no technical possibility of future issues given everything we know and have tested about Blackberry 10 devices without BBL infrastructure.
    It certainly was unusual, hence the widespread irritation. BlackBerry fixed it, as they said they would. If you want the technical explanation you dig for it. I personally don't care what it was, I was answering your insinuation that it didn't happen.
    02-18-19 03:19 PM
  19. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    You would not have been able to test for that. It took us ALL by surprise when it happened.

    I never said I was engaged in scaring people, but that the truth itself should scare off prospective buyers if they were looking for a dependable primary device well into 2019 and beyond.
    The truth itself is that, even ignoring the fact that BBW is the only BB10-related item that BBL has cited as shutting down on 12/31/19, and ignoring the further fact that they have gone out of their way to cite every Blackberry-related service they were discontinuing related to the platforms going EOL, BB10 devices can continue to work without any BBL infrastructure whatsoever.

    Now, some people may not want to use BB10 devices without Blackberry World, or they may not want to run the low risk that Blackberry ID servers may shut off and thus disable Link/Sachesi/DBBT backups. Others may not want to mess with running Android apps at 4.3 or below. That's entirely their choice, and they should be free to make it. But what you are arguing is not the truth; it's a "beware, your device may stop working at any moment" assertion that has the effect of scaring people away.

    People should be free to make their own informed decisions, not have those decisions swayed by those who would prefer they use another platform and thus withhold information to convince them to do so.
    02-18-19 03:23 PM
  20. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar

    People should be free to make their own informed decisions, not have those decisions swayed by those who would prefer they use another platform and thus withhold information to convince them to do so.
    I think it would be great if people could be informed about what will happen... seems like as CrackBerry is the Official means of BlackBerry Support, they would have contact with someone that could spell it all out.

    The statement was "device owners should be aware that we will be closing some ancillary services such as the BlackBerry World app store". So question becomes is what OTHER ancillary services will join BBW?

    They didn't say all Services, just some..... but then of course in the same statement where they promised "to offer a trade-up program that will provide you with a significant discount and incentive to upgrade your current BlackBerry device to a new BlackBerry KeyOne or Motion" so I'm not sure you can really count on everything in that statement going the way they taught it would way back then.

    Today I doubt even BlackBerry is 100% sure what they will do the first of next year.... maybe it's just BBW with other ancillary or key services to slowly be phase out over the next year or so. Maybe it's everything - all cost cut and that phase of their business erased.

    Personally I "think" everything gone, will still allow for usage of the devices. But without...

    BBW Paid Apps (including Ultimate Backup)
    BBW free Apps (except BARs archived)
    BBID Servers and Authentication (many backup options need this)
    Protect
    LINK/BLEND
    Assistant
    Maps
    BB10 BBM
    ?
    ?
    ?

    I don't think many here really expect devices to be bricks... but we do see a lot of risk and problems in the BB10 owners futures. Especially if they haven't come up with a backup of their data that doesn't rely on BlackBerry products... or those accessed via BlackBerry Products...
    02-18-19 03:47 PM
  21. conite's Avatar
    BB10 devices can continue to work without any BBL infrastructure whatsoever.
    I might have thought that too prior to the 2014 WiFi incident, which is why I brought it up. Frankly, we have no idea what other services or features "phone home".
    02-18-19 03:54 PM
  22. conite's Avatar
    People should be free to make their own informed decisions, not have those decisions swayed by those who would prefer they use another platform and thus withhold information to convince them to do so.
    I couldn't care less what platform someone uses.

    The only difference between us is that you're telling people it is CERTAIN they will be just fine beyond 2019, and I'm saying we CAN'T be certain - and one can hope for the best, but should plan for the worst. One is reckless, and the other is prudent.
    02-18-19 03:56 PM
  23. thurask's Avatar
    People should be free to make their own informed decisions, not have those decisions swayed by those who would prefer they use another platform and thus withhold information to convince them to do so.
    Which is why your sunshine and roses spiel gets met with reality every time.
    02-18-19 03:57 PM
  24. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    I think it would be great if people could be informed about what will happen... seems like as CrackBerry is the Official means of BlackBerry Support, they would have contact with someone that could spell it all out.

    The statement was "device owners should be aware that we will be closing some ancillary services such as the BlackBerry World app store". So question becomes is what OTHER ancillary services will join BBW?

    They didn't say all Services, just some..... but then of course in the same statement where they promised "to offer a trade-up program that will provide you with a significant discount and incentive to upgrade your current BlackBerry device to a new BlackBerry KeyOne or Motion" so I'm not sure you can really count on everything in that statement going the way they taught it would way back then.

    Today I doubt even BlackBerry is 100% sure what they will do the first of next year.... maybe it's just BBW with other ancillary or key services to slowly be phase out over the next year or so. Maybe it's everything - all cost cut and that phase of their business erased.

    Personally I "think" everything gone, will still allow for usage of the devices. But without...

    BBW Paid Apps (including Ultimate Backup)
    BBW free Apps (except BARs archived)
    BBID Servers and Authentication (many backup options need this)
    Protect
    LINK/BLEND
    Assistant
    Maps
    BB10 BBM
    ?
    ?
    ?

    I don't think many here really expect devices to be bricks... but we do see a lot of risk and problems in the BB10 owners futures. Especially if they haven't come up with a backup of their data that doesn't rely on BlackBerry products... or those accessed via BlackBerry Products...
    True on the ancillary services, but then they specifically cited examples of those services.... "such as the BlackBerry World app store (12/31/2019), the BlackBerry Travel site (February 2018), and the Playbook video calling service (March 2018)." Given that Blackberry ID services were not cited in that list (nor were Protect, Blend, etc), I'm inclined to think that those services will keep going.

    It's possible Blackberry Limited may decide to phase these other services out, or make further announcements...and it's theoretically possible they may shut down some things without notice, though unlikely based on past behavior. My main argument is that BB10 devices will not be bricks. All BB10 users should be aware of potential risks and limitations/issues of using the OS, and I'm all for disclosing that. I just think it should be done in a straightforward way that doesn't make them think their devices WILL be bricks at any time because BBL might "do something."
    02-18-19 04:13 PM
  25. TrumpetTiger's Avatar
    Which is why your sunshine and roses spiel gets met with reality every time.
    I do meet the doom and gloom spiel offered by many with reality, yes.
    02-18-19 04:18 PM
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