03-10-14 02:55 PM
57 123
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  1. Kurdis Blough's Avatar
    That's the whole point. Sure, we can sideload Square (never heard of it), but wouldn't you rather pay a dollar or two for a developer to take that app, rewrite it natively, and add features to make it better than the official app? BlackBerry owners have money. Android owners don't. That's why we pay for apps.

    I used my Q10 to create this CrackBerry madness!
    Wow.
    02-23-14 01:16 PM
  2. nerdydaddyo's Avatar
    Wow.
    Let me clarify. Androids are cheap devices with the buggiest and least secure OS I have ever experienced of any platform. The big cameras, big screens, and droves of apps are gimmicks to cover up shortcomings which is why people are addicted to them: Android is only good as an entertainment device. Definitely not something you'd wrap all aspects of your life around. And it's so easy to churn out apps for Android that with my limited experience I could churn out a working app in a week (but it would suck because Eclipse sucks too). So it's ok to peddle free crappy Android apps to broke Android owners because there is little overhead. In contrast, Cascades is phenomenal and requires a little more finesse to develop with. This extra work needs to be compensated, and BlackBerry owners typically can afford to and want to contribute to developers. We don't try to jailbreak or cheat compensation systems to get freebies. BlackBerry owners have money because smart, businesses minded people own them and developers know this, hence we pay for our high quality apps.

    I used my Q10 to create this CrackBerry madness!
    PeterDR1 and Sexy Sadie like this.
    02-23-14 03:22 PM
  3. nerdydaddyo's Avatar
    Ok. No more preaching from me. On that list of future indie developed unofficial apps, I'd like to see Flipboard, Pinterest, eBay, Flixster, and Spotify if anyone is up to the challenge (I can see apps such as PayPal being a little more tricky). Something more than a mobile browser page dressed up as an app (see Search for Amazon in BlackBerry World as another example). I'll be ready with money in hand.

    I used my Q10 to create this CrackBerry madness!
    Last edited by nerdydaddyo; 02-23-14 at 03:52 PM.
    02-23-14 03:42 PM
  4. adamlau's Avatar
    KeePass. Give us something maintained and native. That is all I want. A maintained KeePass client.

    SQN100-1 10.2.1.2141 | STA100-3 10.2.1.2141
    02-23-14 03:59 PM
  5. anon(5818411)'s Avatar
    I will be building many unofficial in demand apps after snap2chat. Stay tuned. That's my goal

    Posted via CB10
    Maybe you should make a dev team? :P Like the knobviker guys who made whine, guy who make snap, chive on, igrann and etc.

    Get them all together and just bust out main apps :P

    Posted via CB10
    02-23-14 08:50 PM
  6. nerdydaddyo's Avatar
    Agreed. I'm in.

    I used my Q10 to create this CrackBerry madness!
    02-23-14 09:07 PM
  7. tonytraj17's Avatar
    Ok. No more preaching from me. On that list of future indie developed unofficial apps, I'd like to see Flipboard, Pinterest, eBay, Flixster, and Spotify if anyone is up to the challenge (I can see apps such as PayPal being a little more tricky). Something more than a mobile browser page dressed up as an app (see Search for Amazon in BlackBerry World as another example). I'll be ready with money in hand.

    I used my Q10 to create this CrackBerry madness!
    Tundra Core Studios makes a great native 3rd party app for ebay. It will only get better with time, here is the link: Shopping For eBay - BlackBerry World
    Sexy Sadie likes this.
    02-23-14 09:17 PM
  8. nonesuchnick's Avatar
    I was once a die hard android user, then also become a windows phone user, I was interested developing for bb10. BlackBerry gave me a dev alpha B. Then starts my true happiness using a phone. BlackBerry 10 is the best I've tried...
    It's funny, I have a similar story. When Android first came out it was barely usable and I was a pretty early adopter (Samsung Galaxy SPICA, running Cupcake). My fiance, now my wife, had just got a Bold 9700 on a three year plan. All of my friends and family were mostly BlackBerry users. I felt BlackBerry had become like Microsoft, and were out of touch with what people wanted. Android was based on Linux and and was (mostly) open source, and as a long time Linux user this was a big deal to me! I became a die-hard Android user.

    I changed jobs, and my new company mostly used BlackBerrys. I didn't get a company phone though, so I continued my Android ways. I had rooted my phone and installed Cyanogen Mod running Froyo. Then the PlayBook came out, and everyone at work was talking about it and wanted one. Being from Waterloo, I understood the promise of a QNX-based realtime OS. I got my wife one for Christmas. She got me a Samsung Galaxy S2 (running GingerBread) to replace my rooted Spica, which had become pretty slow. My wife loved her PlayBook and I was happy with my now-rooted Galaxy S2.

    Then BlackBerry began their big Developer Evangelism program leading up to BB10. They offered a free PlayBook to developers who submitted an app for the PlayBook. I had already been working on an Android app in my spare time, but it was still unreleased. I rushed to get it functional and submitted it just under the deadline, and I got a free PlayBook! This was a huge turning point for me. I was now a BlackBerry developer, and I'd done it by making an Android app! Developing for iOS cost $100 upfront, Android was free but to put your app in the store you had to pay $25 to prove you were legit. Putting my app in BlackBerry World cost $0, and I got a free PlayBook!

    Then came BB10, and the 10K commitment. I went to a free BlackBerry Developer Jam event and qualified for a DevAlpha A device. I got to experience and participate in the beginnings of BB10 and now I had an opportunity to be one of the first apps in a new ecosystem, and a chance to get $10,000! The Android version of my app ran fine on the DevAlpha, but I went to work rebuilding my app from the ground up as a native Cascades app. It was sometimes difficult with the APIs changing, and submission deadlines approaching, but the example code on GitHub was really helpful to show how things worked. Finally after over a month of waiting, my app was approved and up for sale in the store. Now just over a year later, my app is Built for BlackBerry approved and has been downloaded over 1000 times! Sadly it looks like I won't make the revenue cut-off for the 10K commitment, but that's another story (1000 downloads does not equal $1000 in revenue for Developers after BlackBerry's cut).

    Finally, after the BB10 launch I was able to trade-in my DevAlpha for a brand new red Developer Limited Edition Z10. I had been carrying my DevAlpha with my Galaxy S2 every day for almost a year. I had really gotten used to the Hub, and especially BBM. So finally, when I got my Z10 LE I hacked my SIM card down to micro size and popped it in and I haven't looked back. I'm so used to the Hub and Flow gestures that I get frustrated if I have to go back to my Galaxy S2 and use the back button. My Z10 LE is the first BlackBerry I ever owned, and now I am a die-hard BB10 user and developer!

    All of this goes to show that what Alec Saunders and the Developer Relations team at BlackBerry did cannot be underestimated, and was probably the single most successful part of the BB10 launch (unfortunately, there were not many successful parts). No other platform was as lucrative for developers in terms of incentives offered in the year up to the BB10 launch. Not only did they completely turn around the perception and experience of developing for BlackBerry and attract new developers to the platform, they created an entire grassroots movement of independent developers like me who evangelized their friends, family and co-workers to the BB10 platform! My wife upgraded to a Z10 a month after launch. My Mom upgraded to a Z10 a few months later. My brother in-law has the option at work for a Z10 or iPhone 5S, can you guess which one I recommended?

    Anyway, that's my story on how I was converted to BlackBerry and BB10 development, and it doesn't sound like I'm alone in this experience. I think there are many, independent, loyal BB10 developers like me. It's unfortunate Developer Relations has been scaled back and can no longer offer the same incentives. Right now they seem focused on attracting Android developers again, but that's not all bad - that's how they got me initially! Admirably, they are still very responsive to Developers, to the point of being personally available on Twitter. My hope is that BlackBerry continues to listen to and support their Developers going forward, and following through on programs like the 10K commitment is of ultimate importance. Developers need the BB10 platform to continue to grow in user adoption in order to be successful and make money, and BlackBerry needs developers to continue supporting the platform in order to grow it.
    santhoshknn likes this.
    02-24-14 01:17 PM
  9. nerdydaddyo's Avatar
    Fascinating story! It's definitely a situation where people need to give BlackBerry a chance and approach it with an open mind.

    I used my Q10 to create this CrackBerry madness!
    02-24-14 01:30 PM
  10. knobtviker's Avatar
    PayPal or any other banking app is a poison apple for devs. If anything goes wrong, who is to blame? No way someone will do that and take the risk.

    Posted via CB10
    02-25-14 06:06 AM
  11. nerdydaddyo's Avatar
    Yeah, I kind of figured PayPal and banking apps would be avoided like the plague. But eBay and Amazon, that shouldn't be a problem, right? People will say that there are already some in BlackBerry World, but all of them are just mobile browser pages disguised as apps. I want the real deal so when I open the Android sideload to compare I immediately want to uninstall the Android sideload because the unofficial native app is so much better.

    I used my Q10 to create this CrackBerry madness!
    Last edited by nerdydaddyo; 02-25-14 at 07:47 AM.
    02-25-14 07:26 AM
  12. Sexy Sadie's Avatar
    I am addicted to EyeEm, and would love a native app, since the sideloaded app are a bit buggy..
    02-25-14 07:09 PM
  13. adamlau's Avatar
    NemOry: Give us a KeePass client!

    SQN100-1 10.2.1.2141 | STA100-3 10.2.1.2141
    02-25-14 11:28 PM
  14. niss63's Avatar
    This thread is filled with whining. Time to put your money where you mouth is and shoulder the risk yourself.

    Want an app? Hire a dev or team of devs to make it for you at your specifications. Get a support contract going with them. Submit your new app to BlackBerry. Simple apps can be cranked out in less than a week for about a grand (US), while more complex apps can cost $15k (or more) to develop.

    If it is a good app with decent demand, you'll break even, maybe make a little bit above your costs. If it goes viral, you'll make bank. Otherwise, you'll lose money.

    So don't sit back and let the dev take all the risks and make all that money for themselves - get in there and mix it up!

    Posted via CB10
    LoganSix likes this.
    02-26-14 07:41 AM
  15. nerdydaddyo's Avatar
    It was only a matter of time. Mod?

    I used my Q10 to create this CrackBerry madness!
    02-26-14 08:25 AM
  16. nonesuchnick's Avatar
    ...Simple apps can be cranked out in less than a week for about a grand (US), while more complex apps can cost $15k (or more) to develop.

    If it is a good app with decent demand, you'll break even, maybe make a little bit above your costs. If it goes viral, you'll make bank. Otherwise, you'll lose money.
    As a developer, with an app that was submitted before BB10 launch and is Built for BlackBerry approved, I want to make sure that people understand this: it is very, very difficult to make any kind of profit with apps in BlackBerry World. This is not just my experience. Most developers are not making money. Other top developers, for both apps and games are struggling right now to make the $1000 revenue cutoff for the 10K Developer commitment incentive that BlackBerry used to attract Developers to the platform.

    Think about that. BlackBerry guaranteed developers would make more than $10K with a Built for BlackBerry app in BlackBerry World at launch, and after a year most of us haven't even made $1000! Consider the "pay for a simple app built in one week for a grand" scenario above. Would you be happy only breaking even after more than a year? Does that sound like a good investment? Now consider that some of us developers have probably put $10-15K of effort and time into our apps.

    My app is regularly in the top 10 to top 20 for the Health and Wellness - Fitness subcategory in BlackBerry World. Yesterday I made a whopping total of $0.88. I sold one copy. Two weeks ago I was the #1 app in the whole Health and Wellness category for two days. I made not more than $5 in revenue per day, less than a Starbucks venti frappuccino. So the #1 app in at least the Health and Wellness category only makes between $5-10 at the most per day. Some developers seem to be having more success with the 'freemium' model, but since other developers with games and utility apps have also yet to make $1000, I would guess that the same holds true in other categories as well.

    I don't want to scare potential developers away from building BlackBerry apps. It's fun and rewarding and the users are very supportive, but I think many developers have been shy to talk about the revenue situation. I think it's important that any new developers understand up front that they are not going to get rich developing apps for BlackBerry right now. BlackBerry needs apps though, and the feedback from the user community is fantastic. So build apps because you love doing it, or because you believe in BlackBerry as a company or because you want to be a part of the future of the BlackBerry 10 platform, or simply because you want an app that does X for your BB10 phone. BlackBerry needs apps to attract more users to buy BB10 phones, and more users mean more potential customers for app developers. Eventually, we might all make some money!
    niss63 and FF22 like this.
    02-26-14 10:48 AM
  17. nerdydaddyo's Avatar
    It's easily traceable.

    https://db.tt/Q61Y85K3

    Watching it now is sad; there was a lot of money and hype into its launch but not enough aggressive marketing afterwards. Give John Chen a chance to get these devices into the hands of millions and then you should see improvement. In the meantime, for survival purposes, if you can rewrite for other platforms with little change to the code to supplement your income, none of us would fault you for doing so. Business is business.

    I used my Q10 to create this CrackBerry madness!
    02-26-14 11:04 AM
  18. niss63's Avatar
    As a developer, with an app that was submitted before BB10 launch and is Built for BlackBerry approved, I want to make sure that people understand this: it is very, very difficult to make any kind of profit with apps in BlackBerry World. This is not just my experience. Most developers are not making money. Other top developers, for both apps and games are struggling right now to make the $1000 revenue cutoff for the 10K Developer commitment incentive that BlackBerry used to attract Developers to the platform.

    Think about that. BlackBerry guaranteed developers would make more than $10K with a Built for BlackBerry app in BlackBerry World at launch, and after a year most of us haven't even made $1000! Consider the "pay for a simple app built in one week for a grand" scenario above. Would you be happy only breaking even after more than a year? Does that sound like a good investment? Now consider that some of us developers have probably put $10-15K of effort and time into our apps.

    My app is regularly in the top 10 to top 20 for the Health and Wellness - Fitness subcategory in BlackBerry World. Yesterday I made a whopping total of $0.88. I sold one copy. Two weeks ago I was the #1 app in the whole Health and Wellness category for two days. I made not more than $5 in revenue per day, less than a Starbucks venti frappuccino. So the #1 app in at least the Health and Wellness category only makes between $5-10 at the most per day. Some developers seem to be having more success with the 'freemium' model, but since other developers with games and utility apps have also yet to make $1000, I would guess that the same holds true in other categories as well.

    I don't want to scare potential developers away from building BlackBerry apps. It's fun and rewarding and the users are very supportive, but I think many developers have been shy to talk about the revenue situation. I think it's important that any new developers understand up front that they are not going to get rich developing apps for BlackBerry right now. BlackBerry needs apps though, and the feedback from the user community is fantastic. So build apps because you love doing it, or because you believe in BlackBerry as a company or because you want to be a part of the future of the BlackBerry 10 platform, or simply because you want an app that does X for your BB10 phone. BlackBerry needs apps to attract more users to buy BB10 phones, and more users mean more potential customers for app developers. Eventually, we might all make some money!
    This precisely underscores my point. It is easy to say, "Why don't they," or, "Someone should develop this," or other similar statements, but the reality is that it is hard to make a living developing apps at the retail level. Even with a dev team that can crank out and support dozens of apps, it is tough to stay afloat. Better money is available by working B2B and developing an app for a specific business or need in the B2B model.

    I'm not a dev, but it angers me to read comments stating that the app is too expensive, or that some dev should do this. To have a low middle income existence in the states, you have to make at least a grand a week. If a dev creates an app and it takes him a week, he's already in the whole for at least a grand, plus any expenses incurred in the actual app development. Complain about prices or complain about a lack of apps, but don't complain about both.

    The most expensive app I've ever purchased was some $60 - and I would buy it again, were it available on BB10. However, that dev isn't keen to go through the time and effort to make it happen for us, because the money just isn't there. Almost all of the responses to app requests I've seen have been devs not wanting to insult users on their phone of choice, but basically stating that until the potential for sales increases, developing for BB10 isn't financially viable.

    The users have to come to grips with the idea that their choice of platform is less than ideal and that ported apps are here for the long haul - at least until the number of BB10 users increases to a break even point for devs.

    Hence my earlier statements.

    In my industry, we get people coming in that want to drive a rocket with four wheels. Sure, it's doable, but I always stop them with one question: "Speed costs big money. How fast do you want to go?"

    In this business of apps, you can have any thing that you are willing to bankroll.
    02-26-14 01:14 PM
  19. niss63's Avatar
    @nonesuchnick -

    I just purchased all three of your apps. Treat yourself to Starbucks on me.
    Sexy Sadie, FF22 and nonesuchnick like this.
    02-26-14 01:32 PM
  20. nerdydaddyo's Avatar
    At least he put his money where his mouth was

    I used my Q10 to create this CrackBerry madness!
    02-26-14 01:38 PM
  21. LoganSix's Avatar
    Since nobody pointed it out.

    Unless the API is open, there can't be an unofficial app.

    Posted from my Z30 using CB10
    02-26-14 01:48 PM
  22. nerdydaddyo's Avatar
    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appli...ming_interface. Interesting reading in the APIs and Copyrights block. Read the section about Oracle v. Google. Then look at the API Commons section just after it.

    I used my Q10 to create this CrackBerry madness!
    02-26-14 02:47 PM
  23. nonesuchnick's Avatar
    @nonesuchnick -

    I just purchased all three of your apps. Treat yourself to Starbucks on me.
    @niss63 Thanks very much! You really didnt have to do that, but I really appreciate the support, and every single purchase helps!

    Edit: Just for the record though, I only have one paid BB10 app, Couch 2AnyK Pro, for sale. I have another free blog app, but I haven't updated that blog in a while.

    Nick

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by nonesuchnick; 02-27-14 at 01:02 AM.
    02-27-14 12:13 AM
  24. niss63's Avatar
    @niss63 Thanks very much! You really didnt have to do that, but I really appreciate the support, and every single purchase helps!

    Edit: Just for the record though, I only have one paid BB10 app, Couch 2AnyK Pro, for sale. I have another free blog app, but I haven't updated that blog in a while.

    Nick

    Posted via CB10
    LOL! There are too many couch to xK apps. Then I just bought yours and some others. *shrugs*

    Posted via CB10
    02-27-14 07:43 AM
  25. nerdydaddyo's Avatar
    Looks like our lobbying paid off, Nick, because you just made the front page!

    I used my Q10 to create this CrackBerry madness!
    02-27-14 08:31 AM
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