08-19-14 01:35 PM
70 123
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  1. Chris S Mellor's Avatar
    I did not mean to insult anyone. The point is, that Blackberry doesn't want Google apps on their devices because the business model is based on selling apps from Blackberry World and not from a third party vendor. At least not one it has no cooperation with as with Google.

    And maybe you should be aware of the fact, that the full Google apps are available as a signed package for any device that is built on AOSP (Android Open Source Project). And the Blackberry runtime is build on the Android Open Source Project.
    Google Apps - CyanogenMod

    So what is it you think to know about Google apps?
    I've researched on Open Handset Alliance. The various manufactures for Android. You're right. The BlackBerry Runtime is built on it. But heavily modified. So it doesn't qualify for that particular package. Only way it will get it is if BlackBerry sends the devices to Google to get tested.

    Look, I got annoyed at the cry part and you basically saying everyone else is wrong. Those people annoy me.

    Oh, as for the vendors, BlackBerry has a partnership with Amazon. We can download a 3rd party client for Google Play Store which BlackBerry has made no attempt to stop.

    Posted via CB10
    08-16-14 06:29 PM
  2. Cobalt232's Avatar
    I don't think so. Let's say BlackBerry somehow got Google play services to work on bb10 devices. I think they would sell way more BB devices than the actual app store would lose. Thus making money and bringing more users to bb10

    I think it's more of the permissions BlackBerry and files/ access BlackBerry would have to let Google have access to for Google to say yes and let BlackBerry have Google play services

    Posted via CB10
    Not sure about that. You can take any device, compile your own Android with ASOP and then install GAPPS. You then have full access to the Google Play store and Google doesn't care.
    Witmen likes this.
    08-16-14 06:35 PM
  3. habs_fan's Avatar
    Not sure about that. You can take any device, compile your own Android with ASOP and then install GAPPS. You then have full access to the Google Play store and Google doesn't care.
    And that's where I'm not sure about that. I'm no developer or super huge tech savy. But I think there's more to it than that

    Posted via CB10
    08-16-14 06:38 PM
  4. Cobalt232's Avatar
    I've researched on Open Handset Alliance. The various manufactures for Android. You're right. The BlackBerry Runtime is built on it. But heavily modified. So it doesn't qualify for that particular package. Only way it will get it is if BlackBerry sends the devices to Google to get tested.

    Look, I got annoyed at the cry part and you basically saying everyone else is wrong. Those people annoy me.

    Oh, as for the vendors, BlackBerry has a partnership with Amazon. We can download a 3rd party client for Google Play Store which BlackBerry has made no attempt to stop.

    Posted via CB10
    No problem. I have deep technical insights into GAPPS and the BB Android runtime because of my hacking activities, that's why I wanted to clear up some myths about the BB Android support.

    I believe that the cooperation with Amazon is interesting for Blackberry as it seems to be a way to participate in sales of the apps.
    08-16-14 06:41 PM
  5. Chris S Mellor's Avatar
    And that's where I'm not sure about that. I'm no developer or super huge tech savy. But I think there's more to it than that

    Posted via CB10
    There is. The device has to pass a test in order to use Android to its full potential

    Posted via CB10
    08-16-14 06:42 PM
  6. Cobalt232's Avatar
    There is. The device has to pass a test in order to use Android to its full potential

    Posted via CB10
    To me, the BB Android Runtime looks quite complete (especially the 10.3 version), beside the lockdown. I believe it would pass any test.

    Well, let's hope that the Amazon Store will grow to a good alternative for native Google play. I miss a lot of apps in Amazon that are on GPlay, especially regional apps like traffic apps and such stuff.
    08-16-14 06:49 PM
  7. Chris S Mellor's Avatar
    To me, the BB Android Runtime looks quite complete (especially the 10.3 version), beside the lockdown. I believe it would pass any test.

    Well, let's hope that the Amazon Store will grow to a good alternative for native Google play. I miss a lot of apps in Amazon that are on GPlay, especially regional apps like traffic apps and such stuff.
    I don't know what they test. If it's just performance that I can't see why not. But it might fail since it doesn't have access to all the libraries a regular Android will have. In one crazy narrow chance, they might just test if the device can run Android efficiently and it doesn't matter if some applications spits out errors

    Posted via CB10
    08-16-14 07:00 PM
  8. Sally Mack's Avatar
    Test is a fancy word for pay imo. There's a lot more behind the scenes to get a device "approved".
    08-16-14 07:06 PM
  9. Cobalt232's Avatar
    I don't know what they test. If it's just performance that I can't see why not. But it might fail since it doesn't have access to all the libraries a regular Android will have. In one crazy narrow chance, they might just test if the device can run Android efficiently and it doesn't matter if some applications spits out errors

    Posted via CB10
    Look here:
    https://source.android.com/compatibility/overview.html
    08-16-14 07:10 PM
  10. AnimalPak200's Avatar
    I thought it was more of a licensing agreement issue,.. BlackBerry having to fulfill certain minimum requires such as pre-installing Google apps and the play store. I don't think BlackBerry's business model has much to do with selling apps (especially now). But I do think they greatly fear being any more closely associated with Google than they have to be. That fear only surpassed by the fear of being sued to the ground by Google.

    If it has been entirely up to BlackBerry all this time, as Cobalt suggests, it really is amazing that they have held back considering it would have nullified the app gap argument against BB10... which would have brought in more revenue that measly BlackBerry World sales.

    Posted via CB10
    08-16-14 07:12 PM
  11. MobileMadness002's Avatar
    As far as Google services goes, it is a separate package. It had to be downloaded on each of my droids running cm11. Therefore ALL apps are available and can in fact be loaded separate from the base android os. That being said, royalty is NOT an issue to be overcome. I am fairly confident that the cm developers did not pay Google in any form.
    Cobalt232 likes this.
    08-16-14 07:18 PM
  12. Chris S Mellor's Avatar
    I thought it was more of a licensing agreement issue,.. BlackBerry having to fulfill certain minimum requires such as pre-installing Google apps and the play store. I don't think BlackBerry's business model has much to do with selling apps (especially now). But I do think they greatly fear being any more closely associated with Google than they have to be. That fear only surpassed by the fear of being sued to the ground by Google.

    If it has been entirely up to BlackBerry all this time, as Cobalt suggests, it really is amazing that they have held back considering it would have nullified the app gap argument against BB10... which would have brought in more revenue that measly BlackBerry World sales.

    Posted via CB10
    Android is open source. BlackBerry won't be sued for it

    Posted via CB10
    08-16-14 07:21 PM
  13. LazyEvul's Avatar
    Officially-speaking, BlackBerry could most likely never preload Google Apps thanks to the rules of the Open Handset Alliance. If Google were willing to work something out, maybe it'd happen, but Google has no incentive to do so.

    Having said that, I have no clue why they blacklist various Google apps in the Android runtime. Perhaps limitations within the runtime make it run poorly/not run at all? Then again, that's been the case with many other apps in the past that were never blacklisted.

    I doubt it was done to keep more revenue in BlackBerry World. Amazon Market and 1Market were never blacklisted (though still quite popular), and a lot of the apps people want have no alternative in BlackBerry World anyhow.
    08-16-14 07:22 PM
  14. Cobalt232's Avatar
    I thought it was more of a licensing agreement issue,.. BlackBerry having to fulfill certain minimum requires such as pre-installing Google apps and the play store. I don't think BlackBerry's business model has much to do with selling apps (especially now). But I do think they greatly fear being any more closely associated with Google than they have to be. That fear only surpassed by the fear of being sued to the ground by Google.

    If it has been entirely up to BlackBerry all this time, as Cobalt suggests, it really is amazing that they have held back considering it would have nullified the app gap argument against BB10... which would have brought in more revenue that measly BlackBerry World sales.

    Posted via CB10
    Could not agree more.

    I did some internet research regarding a Google Apps certification or compatibility program to find out if an Android provider must fulfill any requirements on the software side to run Google Apps and I did not find anything. It looks like anyone can run Google Apps including Google Play store on any Android device as long as it fulfills the Android compatibility test mentioned above. And even that doesn't seem to be mandatory.
    08-16-14 07:27 PM
  15. LazyEvul's Avatar
    Could not agree more.

    I did some internet research regarding a Google Apps certification or compatibility program to find out if an Android provider must fulfill any requirements on the software side to run Google Apps and I did not find anything. It looks like anyone can run Google Apps including Google Play store on any Android device as long as it fulfills the Android compatibility test mentioned above. And even that doesn't seem to be mandatory.
    This is the "test" people are referring to: Understanding the Difference Between AOSP and the Open Handset Alliance [Opinion] | Droid Life

    While Android is open source and available for everyone to use, the Google Play store and Google apps (Gmail, Google Calendar, Chrome, etc.) are only available to Google’s partners in the Open Handset Alliance (OHA) that are certified by the Android Compatibility Program (ACP). It is free for anyone to join the alliance, but in doing so the company must agree to not fork Android and instead strive to avoid fragmentation of the Android platform.
    It's not a test so much as just a set of rules, and Google gets to decide whether or not you abide by them. It's the same reason why Amazon devices don't come preloaded with Google apps - that's considered a fork of Android. BlackBerry 10 is a bit more of a grey area, but my guess is BlackBerry has already approached Google and they told them that BB10 doesn't fit their interpretation of the rules.
    Cobalt232 likes this.
    08-16-14 07:32 PM
  16. Cobalt232's Avatar
    Thanks for the discussion, heading to bed ...
    08-16-14 07:37 PM
  17. Sally Mack's Avatar
    It's not a test so much as just a set of rules, and Google gets to decide whether or not you abide by them.
    This. Google holds all the power. Having a competing app store already on the device is enough to put google off of any arrangement.
    08-16-14 07:49 PM
  18. AnimalPak200's Avatar
    This. Google holds all the power. Having a competing app store already on the device is enough to put google off of any arrangement.
    This is what I meant about BlackBerry's fear of costly legal action against it. I know Android is "open source", but this isn't about Android... this is about Google Services, which are still very much the property of Google.

    Posted via CB10
    08-16-14 08:51 PM
  19. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    But can't we get the Google apps without Google services?(if it were to happen) Like iOS for example.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.3247
    08-16-14 10:27 PM
  20. LazyEvul's Avatar
    But can't we get the Google apps without Google services?(if it were to happen) Like iOS for example.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.3247
    Most of them, if not all, tie into Google services somehow. So, if they were to arrive on the platform officially, they'd either have to be modified versions of the Android app, or native. Having said that, BB10 is just too small for Google to consider such a thing right now.

    Unofficially though, at least one already works - Google Maps. You can't login for any of the sync features, but the maps themselves work.
    08-16-14 10:34 PM
  21. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    Most of them, if not all, tie into Google services somehow. So, if they were to arrive on the platform officially, they'd either have to be modified versions of the Android app, or native. Having said that, BB10 is just too small for Google to consider such a thing right now.

    Unofficially though, at least one already works - Google Maps. You can't login for any of the sync features, but the maps themselves work.
    Well. I'm still dreaming that BB10 will take off someday and become relevant.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.3247
    gebco likes this.
    08-16-14 10:37 PM
  22. johnny_bravo72's Avatar
    Want goggle apps? buy android phone! This is BlackBerry.
    Well what do you think has been happening for the past few years? This exodus is the main reason why Blackberry is in such a predicament.

    Posted from an ME173X
    08-16-14 10:50 PM
  23. danielsamwel's Avatar
    Google decides who gets Google services.

    Posted via CB10
    Plenty of people install Google Services on non-approved devices and Android forks without Google's approval. It's true BlackBerry needs Google's approval to preload Google Services on BB10 smartphones. However nothing prevents BlackBerry from allowing us to sideload Google Services on our BB10 phones. BlackBerry arbitrarily blocks us from doing this though. This has nothing to do with Google. The ball is entirely in BlackBerry's court.

    Posted via CB10
    08-16-14 11:21 PM
  24. swapnilsj's Avatar
    Nope dont want it..... OP why dont you buy an android?

    Differentiate or Die
    Because I love BlackBerry! but BlackBerry doesn't have any alternate apps as effective as Google apps!!!

    Posted via CB10
    08-17-14 02:34 AM
  25. dustmalik's Avatar
    Plenty of people install Google Services on non-approved devices and Android forks without Google's approval. It's true BlackBerry needs Google's approval to preload Google Services on BB10 smartphones. However nothing prevents BlackBerry from allowing us to sideload Google Services on our BB10 phones. BlackBerry arbitrarily blocks us from doing this though. This has nothing to do with Google. The ball is entirely in BlackBerry's court.

    Posted via CB10
    Exactly.

    Posted via CB10 using my Gorgeous Z30
    08-17-14 03:37 AM
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