[mrsean2k]

@iBuilder when I say "the people doing the work", I'm not referring to you or anyone else demanding a free app.

I'm talking about the advantages for the people actually tasked with writing or supporting th

There's talk that developers "can't see the advantages". Are people really just asserting that because they'd *reallly* *really* like it, that justifies demanding someone else's effort for nothing?

[mrsean2k]

@anyone else; speculation about what the developers did or didn't do is amusing but ignorant.

So you had it running? So what. OneNote isn't just an app. Its an entire cross platform ecosystem. It just seeming to work with a quick test isn't anywhere near enough to justify even officially sanctioning anyone to go down that route.

Everyone *certain* it isn't going to compromise anything for actual paying customers on other platforms? Isn't going to lull people into a false sense of security and fail unexpectedly further down the line? Isn't going to become nothing else but a PITA of ongoing support issues and complaints?

[Thud Hardsmack]

@iBuilder when I say "the people doing the work", I'm not referring to you or anyone else demanding a free app.

I'm talking about the advantages for the people actually tasked with writing or supporting th

There's talk that developers "can't see the advantages". Are people really just asserting that because they'd *reallly* *really* like it, that justifies demanding someone else's effort for nothing?

Are you seriously suggesting Microsoft doesn't pay their developers? I'm not following your train of thought here at all. Onenote is provided for free to iOS, Android, Windows, and Mac - what gain does Microsoft get from that, and why shouldn't we get the same treatment?

[Thud Hardsmack]

Everyone *certain* it isn't going to compromise anything for actual paying customers on other platforms?

It's a free app.

Windows. Free.

Attachment 320390

Windows Store. Free.


Attachment 320391

Windows phone, of course.


Attachment 320392

Mac. Free.


Attachment 320393

IPad. Free.


Attachment 320394

IPhone. Free.


Attachment 320395

Amazon. Free.

Attachment 320396

And Android. Free.

Attachment 320397

Now why are you still asking why we, the customer, should compensate the devs when no other customer is?

[early2bed]

Onenote is provided for free to iOS, Android, Windows, and Mac - what gain does Microsoft get from that, and why shouldn't we get the same treatment?

Does every platform listed in "Other" under market share deserve the same treatment or just Blackberry?

[1Criz]

Pity. Fortunately we can use Remember for the purpose.

Posted via CB10

[mrsean2k]

I can't tell if your reply is chain yanking or just general inexperience.

Of course MS pays it's developers. On that we agree, and so it follows that there's a cost to MS to provide a BB native app.

So you agree it will cost MS hard cash to give you your free app. The next question you ask is why is it worth spending that money on other platforms - however restricted those free versions are - and not on your platform?

OneNote follows a freemium model - they invest the cost of paying those developers to produce that software, and support the massive infrastructure to let you use it for free in the hope that:

1) They can upsell to a significant number of customers and charge for extra space, features and integration, recover development and ongoing support costs and make a profit

2) They can generate sufficient goodwill from familiarity with the free version that decision-makers will recommend paying for the extra features and continue to use it in circumstances where the license agreement states you should pay

3) They can generate revenue from reliance on their cloud storage of your data now or some point in the future.

4) They'll make a modest charge based on the space or bandwidth you consume at some point in the future when you're sufficiently locked in


All of which relies on numbers, and you just don't have them. You (not you specifically but complainants in general) also demonstrate they are correct not to make that investment; you're prepared to pay them nothing to offset the costs associated with your modest numbers. You are demonstrably a bad investment.

[mrsean2k]

And I'll say it again; you aren't customers, you're users. When you pay for something, you're a customer.

[app_Developer]

Are you seriously suggesting Microsoft doesn't pay their developers? I'm not following your train of thought here at all. Onenote is provided for free to iOS, Android, Windows, and Mac - what gain does Microsoft get from that, and why shouldn't we get the same treatment?

Microsoft makes the mobile apps to keep their users in their Office family. This investment only makes sense, obviously, for platforms where there are a significant number of users.

Here on CrackBerry, there is often a very low standards for the android app "working". Microsoft would want all of the features of the app to be working reasonably before they commit to officially supporting it.


Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk

[yessuz]

Microsoft makes the mobile apps to keep their users in their Office family. This investment only makes sense, obviously, for platforms where there are a significant number of users.

Here on CrackBerry, there is often a very low standards for the android app "working". Microsoft would want all of the features of the app to be working reasonably before they commit to officially supporting it.


Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk

So, when android app works flawless with 100% same features, usability experience and all other things (in other words 100% same as on android) as on android phone, so name it as "low standards"?

Well we at least know that iPhone users have very low standard for smartphone's smart functions :P

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[yessuz]

And I'll say it again; you aren't customers, you're users. When you pay for something, you're a customer.

People pay for ms office suite

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[app_Developer]

So, when android app works flawless with 100% same features, usability experience and all other things (in other words 100% same as on android) as on android phone, so name it as "low standards"?

Well we at least know that iPhone users have very low standard for smartphone's smart functions :P

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Of course if the app actually works 100%, then that's not a low standard. But you often see people here say an app from Play/Snap works "perfectly" when in fact the UI is screwed up in different places, or push notifications don't work, or the app crashes on certain activities, etc.

What Microsoft is saying is that OneNote for Android doesn't work perfectly on BB10 per their testing, and would require additional work to make it so. That's an investment that Microsoft doesn't want to make, given how few of their users are actually using BB10.

People can download it via snap, and to whatever extent it actually works, Microsoft won't support it. That's probably the right choice for both BB10 users and Microsoft. If Microsoft puts it in BBWorld, then they would have to spend even more money to support it, update it with each new version, Etc.

[Thud Hardsmack]

You guys make some valid points; I'm not in disagreement with them at all. However, I think I'm perhaps wording this the wrong way. I'm not looking at it from the development side, or the corporate side; I'm looking at it from the users' view. I'm against what would, in other terms, be considered an entrance fee to do what other people do without having to pay the same entrance fee. Basically, this: if Onenote (or other apps) needed to be purchased to use on other platforms, I wouldn't be saying anything at all. It wouldn't even need to be the same price, I've seen the apps purchased on different platforms for differing costs. I'm not against devs getting their due in the slightest. But when it's free for everyone it's available for, then it should stay that way. Evernote can do it; they've provided a Built-For-BlackBerry standalone app and integrated with the OS in Remember. Their app is free for everyone, and a lot more platforms than Onenote.

[black.rhino]

Evernote can do it; they've provided a Built-For-BlackBerry standalone app and integrated with the OS in Remember. Their app is free for everyone, and a lot more platforms than Onenote.

Evernote's BlackBerry 10 app compared to iOS and Android is like notepad to MS Word.



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[Thud Hardsmack]

Evernote's BlackBerry 10 app compared to iOS and Android is like notepad to MS Word.



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That's awesome. Does it exist natively and allow Evernote to profit from it? Yes. Unlike Onenote.

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[svelt]

I'd be more interested in seeing his response to the fact that we can get the Android version to work but he and his team can't.

Ha. that's pretty funny actually. I'm sure they're aware it loads and runs on 10.3.1, but they just won't officially get behind it. It's the same reason I'm guessing a lot of the "easy ports" aren't made to BB World, because it would tarnish the company's reputation should things go wrong - and they often do - Android ports generally work for the most part but almost all of them experience some sort of a performance setback.

And what of it anyway? If you really wanted to use OneNote, you can just use Snap to download it. Pity the random average BB10 user can't. If we wanted to help them out, it'd be easier to get the word out to them about installing .apks rather than trying to convince developers to port apps into BB World.

[Lumute]

Who is in charge of Developer Relationships in BlackBerry nowadays? I'm not sure but b!tching and complaining on a BB dedicated forum will not help at all, I don't think Mr. Chandra or anyone on his team reads these forums.. the only thing we can do in my opinion is to bring this to BB's attention, and ask them to put some resources on helping Microsoft get this done...

[Thud Hardsmack]

Ha. that's pretty funny actually. I'm sure they're aware it loads and runs on 10.3.1, but they just won't officially get behind it. It's the same reason I'm guessing a lot of the "easy ports" aren't made to BB World, because it would tarnish the company's reputation should things go wrong - and they often do - Android ports generally work for the most part but almost all of them experience some sort of a performance setback.

And what of it anyway? If you really wanted to use OneNote, you can just use Snap to download it. Pity the random average BB10 user can't. If we wanted to help them out, it'd be easier to get the word out to them about installing .apks rather than trying to convince developers to port apps into BB World.

Already have it, available through Amazon as well. And it does suffer. It's semi-integrated wherein I can share to it from anywhere, but it takes a few moments, always notifies me in the Hub that a share has happened but doesn't always complete, requiring a repeat. Other than that it works as expected albeit a bit slower, and some areas require the 45 degree swipe to go back (on mine at least), takes a moment or to opening, etc. And because it's Android, there's a cost to battery life - just a few seconds after opening I can feel the heat through my case. It needs to be open on BlackBerry when using it from another machine/device, because if not it syncs up instead of down as soon as it's opened, and any changes made are reset to whatever state the app was when it was closed. Of course this may be unique to me simply by virtue of being a Android app on a BlackBerry, and we all know ymmv. I'd be ecstatic to have it integrated like Evernote in Remember, since my tasks are already synced through the same account, and Onedrive as well. My notes are synced there but they can't open on my Z10 even with Onenote installed, have to open the app to interact with them.

Would the same problems exist with native? Who knows? Perhaps there'd be new ones. But we need a native app, or just even the ability to have it integrated in BB10, to find out.



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[app_Developer]

Already have it, available through Amazon as well. And it does suffer. It's semi-integrated wherein I can share to it from anywhere, but it takes a few moments, always notifies me in the Hub that a share has happened but doesn't always complete, requiring a repeat. Other than that it works as expected albeit a bit slower, and some areas require the 45 degree swipe to go back (on mine at least), takes a moment or to opening, etc. And because it's Android, there's a cost to battery life - just a few seconds after opening I can feel the heat through my case. It needs to be open on BlackBerry when using it from another machine/device, because if not it syncs up instead of down as soon as it's opened, and any changes made are reset to whatever state the app was when it was closed. Of course this may be unique to me simply by virtue of being a Android app on a BlackBerry, and we all know ymmv. I'd be ecstatic to have it integrated like Evernote in Remember, since my tasks are already synced through the same account, and Onedrive as well. My notes are synced there but they can't open on my Z10 even with Onenote installed, have to open the app to interact with them.

Thank you for an honest and complete assessment of how the app *actually* works on BB10. This is the point, apps like this are not really "5-minute" projects to port to BBWorld. It may be a few minutes to get the first rough version going, but then it will sometimes take significant investment after that to get it into shipping form.

We found the same story with our apps. Yes, you can sort of, kind of, get it *roughly* working in a few minutes. But there is absolutely no way we would put the apps out in BBWorld in that rough state with our name on it and with our promise of support behind it. I'll bet Microsoft is thinking the same thing.


Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk

[Thud Hardsmack]

Thank you for an honest and complete assessment of how the app *actually* works on BB10. This is the point, apps like this are not really "5-minute" projects to port to BBWorld. It may be a few minutes to get the first rough version going, but then it will sometimes take significant investment after that to get it into shipping form.

We found the same story with our apps. Yes, you can sort of, kind of, get it *roughly* working in a few minutes. But there is absolutely no way we would put the apps out in BBWorld in that rough state with our name on it and with our promise of support behind it. I'll bet Microsoft is thinking the same thing.


Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk

You're welcome, and I completely understand about releasing something quick and dirty. I'm looking at it with the knowledge that MS tucked Onenote into Office and more or less seemed to not really have a plan for it other than letting it exist. Evernote saw an opening and thrived where Onenote could have had MS been on the ball (good lord that sounds familiar), and now we see MS changing the pricing, releasing for Mac, etc. Maybe it'll come in time.

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[The Big Picture]

I'd be more interested in seeing his response to the fact that we can get the Android version to work but he and his team can't.

This. One note works on my 10.3.1 z30 and passport installed from snap.

They claim the port is difficult?? It works straight off the bat!!

This is why I think devs are being told by apple and Google to not develop for any other platform.

EDIT: true it's not perfect and may require optimisations
As mentioned by app developer and the rest above.

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[tempdownloads]

We found the same story with our apps. Yes, you can sort of, kind of, get it *roughly* working in a few minutes. But there is absolutely no way we would put the apps out in BBWorld in that rough state with our name on it and with our promise of support behind it. I'll bet Microsoft is thinking the same thing.

Welcome to android app land. Most large companies that develop apps simply do a rough port of iOS app to android. No QA (you can't QA on android: fragmentation) and call it a day.

This is why apps on android are horrible quality. But because EVERYONE does it - EVERYONE gets away with it. Also since Android users have very low-engagement, it's not a big deal.

For Blackberry it's a different story. Blackberry users are highly engaged & high disposable income. It will be a BIG deal if we treated Blackberry apps like all of us treat android apps.

We can't get away with releasing crap apps to Blackberry users.

Unfortunately that means we can't release for Blackberry because of limited resources. Very small size of Blackberry user base does not at all justify the very high cost to develop a good quality app on Blackberry.

[olee2222]

MS also prioritises Android and iOS, even their own Windows Phone platform is the last in mobile office development.

No luck for us at bb.

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