08-27-13 01:21 PM
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  1. Tracy Daken's Avatar
    Nokia is all-in on WP. So yeah as long as they have $$ they aren't going to stop making WP devices, that would be suicide.
    Instagram so far is roughly the same as where BB10 was when they said Instagram was coming (and with the leak apps from time to time).
    6gram has official support from instagram. That was the big change so far this week.

    Don't get me wrong here. I love BlackBerry, and wished the brand name didn't have so much flak in it. If they would just change the name and keep the OS working the way it should, it would be judged on it's own merits instead of having to fight a bad rep. You need the meat and potatoes to be added to the OS to make it stupendous. And right now, no one is supporting it. I will probably get a few BB's but not expecting them to walk away from this. Maybe a z10, and a Z30 as backup phones, because I do like their Independence from ANY eco system and their flexibility.BB did the OS right. It is just not complete, and neither is the support from the apps.
    What I see happening is most apps will come from the 4.2.2 android runtime with some native apps. The Jellybean apps will work smoothly and you will be able to run a phone independent from any specific ecosystem. Offline maps, and android apps to supplement, add to the basic simple to use OS and clear, concise, business type mentality will help these phones work far beyond the point of BB as a company maybe selling themselves apart as portfolios.

    Take it for what it is worth. Either way. My main driver is windows because of the ecosystem and the great hardware support from Nokia. However, the Z10 is a great machine, and has it's own positive merits. I really do hope they sell Z30s so I can grab a few to use.
    08-24-13 01:03 AM
  2. cckgz4's Avatar
    Naivety all around....from the "massager" to the author
    thevacantsoul and h20work like this.
    08-24-13 03:38 AM
  3. BitPusher2600's Avatar
    Windows Phone has one thing we don't: lots and lots of advertising and marketing. Wish my folks at my beloved Research In Motion / BlackBerry Limited would take a cue. Windows Phone ain't exactly doing an epic job, but their public perception is looking good.
    08-24-13 05:07 AM
  4. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    Text the author...please don't shoot the messager.
    I realize the analogy that you're trying to make with this thread and Blackberry "bashing"; but, Windows Phone and Blackberry are two different animals (always were and always will be) and the case against Blackberry is much stronger. The important points are Blackberry is bleeding market share whereas this was never the case for Windows Phone and that there appears to be a sense of urgency and dissatisfaction amongst the BBRY board and shareholders.

    The general tone of the investing community (including shareholders) at this point is for Blackberry to sell for whatever assets it can. This may or may not include the hardware division; but do note that many analysts expect the division to be worth nothing and the hope that some savior will see things completely differently might be setting yourself up for disappointment.

    Based on 1/ the "strategic alternatives" announcement, which is to the detriment of BB10 sales, and 2/ the general tone of its investors as well as 3/ the layoffs which do not support the case for significant ongoing product development, there is speculation BB10 is "dead". This is not "dead" as in there is this unpopular product from this backward company I don't like. This is "dead" as in the OS is secretly/internally in limbo and indefinite hiatus or it will soon be put in this state.

    This is the sensible business decision; but, Blackberry cannot public announce such a move for the reasons 1/ that it would hurt the value of the company pre-buyout, 2/ there might be a buyer interested in picking up the Blackberry hardware division even if it is but a slim chance, and 3/ Blackberry needs to liquidate its inventory of Blackberry devices.




    EDIT: Back on the topic of Windows Phone. Will Windows Phone ever be "dead" as in like the speculation around Blackberry? It's possible; but, Microsoft is unlikely to give it up unless the company is in financial trouble or there is a solid plan B considering OSes are within Microsoft's primary industry/business.

    Even Nokia defecting will not kill off Windows Phone in the sense the OS is discontinued but merely take away significant market share. But maybe one day Google may be open to selling Android to Microsoft under certain terms and that is one of the most likely cases for the end of Windows Phone, in my opinion.
    Last edited by sentimentGX4; 08-24-13 at 07:07 AM.
    JeepBB likes this.
    08-24-13 06:43 AM
  5. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    You are right. The only think which silenced the critics somewhat was improved sales, and the same would apply for Blackberry.

    When things go poorly people invent reasons why, but there is no way of really knowing if those are the reasons or not. When they go well people also invent reasons why.

    I mean, lets look at the NL 520 - its a pretty poorly specified handset, and if it was not selling so well people would be roundly dismissing it.

    Nothing succeeds like success.
    The NL 520 is only poorly specified if you have no clue what the purpose of this handset is. It's the lowest end handset Nokia offers, for emerging markets and PayGo Customers with very thin budgets.

    If you want better specs, there is the Lumia 600, 800, 900, and 1k lines to choose from. Nokia hits all markets and price points with their phones, unlike Blackberry which was forced to release another crappy curve to compete with devices like the L520 which still fun circles around the new OS7 curve they put out.

    The only thing BB has that is price competitive with the L520 here is the Curve 9310, and no one wants that phone.
    JeepBB and Etios like this.
    08-24-13 03:01 PM
  6. cjcampbell's Avatar
    The NL 520 is only poorly specified if you have no clue what the purpose of this handset is. It's the lowest end handset Nokia offers, for emerging markets and PayGo Customers with very thin budgets.

    If you want better specs, there is the Lumia 600, 800, 900, and 1k lines to choose from. Nokia hits all markets and price points with their phones, unlike Blackberry which was forced to release another crappy curve to compete with devices like the L520 which still fun circles around the new OS7 curve they put out.

    The only thing BB has that is price competitive with the L520 here is the Curve 9310, and no one wants that phone.
    That new OS7 phone is not for the "1st world" countries. I don't get why this is so hard to understand. It may not be as cheap at the pop but over the term of ownership, it is far cheaper due to BIS and the data compression that goes along with it. For those who grab a new phone every year, or those who can afford a higher monthly bill, you're right, but I used to get by with a 500mb per month plan and not once did I even come close to using it all. The phone has it's place and purpose so see it for what it is.... A solution for those who need it and want it, both consumer and enterprise.
    08-24-13 03:38 PM
  7. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    That new OS7 phone is not for the "1st world" countries. I don't get why this is so hard to understand. It may not be as cheap at the pop but over the term of ownership, it is far cheaper due to BIS and the data compression that goes along with it. For those who grab a new phone every year, or those who can afford a higher monthly bill, you're right, but I used to get by with a 500mb per month plan and not once did I even come close to using it all. The phone has it's place and purpose so see it for what it is.... A solution for those who need it and want it, both consumer and enterprise.
    Neither is the 520, which is why I don't understand why you're being so daft.

    They're for the SAME markets, but the 520 craps all over the new OS7 phone. Windows Phone 8's GDR2 bought Data Sense to all phones, so as long as your carrier supports it Windows Phone 8 also gets data compression. Educate yourself.

    Unveiled in October, Data Sense compresses users' data transmissions in order to reduce users' data consumption. Microsoft said the technology can give users 45 percent more Web browsing than they would get if they were on the same data plan on another smartphone platform. Data Sense also shows users how much data each app is using, and it can notify a user when they begin approaching their monthly data allotment.

    Read more: AT&T considers supporting Microsoft's 'Data Sense' service for Windows Phone 8 - FierceMobileContent AT&T considers supporting Microsoft's 'Data Sense' service for Windows Phone 8 - FierceMobileContent
    Subscribe at FierceMobileContent
    That's my point. Again, the Nokia is just better positioned than the OS7 Curves (especially considering you shouldn't really expect any dev support for that platform, only a decrease in what is already there).

    If you want to spec race on WP8, then get a 1020 or a 928. The 520 is not for you.

    In any case, as a secondary phone on a cheap PayGo Plan, or without a SIM in it as a PMP device with access to a secondary ecosystem (sort of like having a Galaxy S + iPod Touch), the 520 is great even in 1st world countries. It's cheaper than the 16GB iPod Touch 5th Gen (by far) and is a more capable device (GPS, back camera is more useful than front camera, SD Card Slot to set it to save Pictures/Videos/Music to, etc.).
    JeepBB and Etios like this.
    08-24-13 04:15 PM
  8. cjcampbell's Avatar
    First off, there's no need to be calling people names. This is a place of discussion and people are allowed to be missing parts of the puzzle. Second, this is what I was using as my understanding of data sense....

    ?The idea behind [Data Sense] is to ensure that you get the most out of your data plan,? Microsoft?s Joe Belfiore said in the infamously leaked internal Windows Phone 8 video from early 2012. ?The most important thing we?re doing is reducing the amount of data we use. We try to use Wi-Fi instead of cellular when we can ? We?re building a user experience that will help you understand and manage your data usage. And we?re building in a mechanism so that Windows Phone can be configured in many countries to have the cellular data automatically offloaded operator-owned Wi-Fi.?

    Third, Microsoft says up to 45% but we all know what "up to" means. Finally, I have never used the cheap windows phones but I have a hard time believing that it would be on par with, or exceeding the experience of the ipod touch as a wifi only device. Of course, I could very well be wrong.



    Posted via CB10
    08-24-13 04:38 PM
  9. dusdal's Avatar
    That article seems to explain the state of Windows Phone (somewhat inaccurately) and would be perfect for explaining why its failing, but seems rather inconsistent with a platform which doubled sales YoY.

    Its like the articles which explained why the iPhone would fail and Blackberry would succeed, like the lack of real multi-tasking and a keyboard.

    In the end the real test of a hypothesis is to see if it predicts reality, and unfortunately his do not.
    BBRY shipped bb10 units was up 200% from last quarter. Haha.

    Edit: edited to add 'bb10' as that may have caused confusion.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by dusdal; 08-24-13 at 07:41 PM.
    08-24-13 04:51 PM
  10. 12Danny123's Avatar
    BBRY shipped units was up 200% from last quarter. Haha.

    Posted via CB10
    You know that's just shipped units not sold??

    Shipped doesn't boost market Share or sales

    Sent using my Z10
    JeepBB likes this.
    08-24-13 04:55 PM
  11. 12Danny123's Avatar
    First off, there's no need to be calling people names. This is a place of discussion and people are allowed to be missing parts of the puzzle. Second, this is what I was using as my understanding of data sense....

    ?The idea behind [Data Sense] is to ensure that you get the most out of your data plan,? Microsoft?s Joe Belfiore said in the infamously leaked internal Windows Phone 8 video from early 2012. ?The most important thing we?re doing is reducing the amount of data we use. We try to use Wi-Fi instead of cellular when we can ? We?re building a user experience that will help you understand and manage your data usage. And we?re building in a mechanism so that Windows Phone can be configured in many countries to have the cellular data automatically offloaded operator-owned Wi-Fi.?

    Third, Microsoft says up to 45% but we all know what "up to" means. Finally, I have never used the cheap windows phones but I have a hard time believing that it would be on par with, or exceeding the experience of the ipod touch as a wifi only device. Of course, I could very well be wrong.



    Posted via CB10
    Ok its simple. The WPs NEVER LAG. Its so smooth even on 512 MB of RAM
    JeepBB and Etios like this.
    08-24-13 04:57 PM
  12. notfanboy's Avatar
    BBRY shipped units was up 200% from last quarter. Haha.

    Posted via CB10
    No this is not true.
    JeepBB likes this.
    08-24-13 05:17 PM
  13. bekkay's Avatar
    Let's see which of the problems apply to BB10 as well

    1) The Operator Problem - check
    2) The Platform Positioning Problem - check
    3) The Pricing and Halo Effect Problem - check
    4) The Customer Problem - check
    5) The Google Problem - check
    6) The Microsoft vs Nokia Problem - nope (however, BBRY would probably die to have a strong backer)
    7) App Problem - check (much worse for BB10)
    phing77 likes this.
    08-24-13 05:38 PM
  14. FFR's Avatar
    That new OS7 phone is not for the "1st world" countries. I don't get why this is so hard to understand.
    Its hard to understand because BB IS selling it in the UK. Or do you regard the United Kingdom as third world.

    The phone has it's place and purpose so see it for what it is....
    The only place a legacy device has is showing the industry that Blackberry has no confidence in BB10
    JeepBB likes this.
    08-24-13 05:57 PM
  15. cjcampbell's Avatar
    Its hard to understand because BB IS selling it in the UK. Or do you regard the United Kingdom as third world.



    The only place a legacy device has is showing the industry that Blackberry has no confidence in BB10
    Target market doesn't need to mean only market. If they sell, then there is a reason to have them. There have been people on CB who prefer the legacy OS so this has actually made them happy.
    08-24-13 06:28 PM
  16. FFR's Avatar
    Target market doesn't need to mean only market.
    If they sell, then there is a reason to have them. There have been people on CB who prefer the legacy OS so this has actually made them happy.
    Moving the goalposts are we.

    That new OS7 phone is not for the "1st world" countries. I don't get why this is so hard to understand.

    Maybe less cowbells
    JeepBB and mikeo007 like this.
    08-24-13 06:46 PM
  17. thecurryman's Avatar
    the only way i can see blackberry succeding is if they can get either other oems to make a very low cost device or produce a low cost device themselves...people in the developing countries want a lower cost device which wp8 is doing. if blackberry does it then they will succeed.
    08-24-13 07:31 PM
  18. dusdal's Avatar
    No this is not true.
    last year Q4 they shipped 0.9 million bb10 units, Q1 this year they shipped 2.7 million bb10 units.

    It was meant as a funny to reflect an xx% increase for relatively very low numbers doesn't mean so much. However, what I said is true,
    08-24-13 07:40 PM
  19. dusdal's Avatar
    You know that's just shipped units not sold??

    Shipped doesn't boost market Share or sales

    Sent using my Z10
    Yes, I do know that. That is why I said "shipped units"

    But I do understand that is commonly confused, so cheers.
    08-24-13 07:42 PM
  20. notfanboy's Avatar
    last year Q4 they shipped 0.9 million bb10 units, Q1 this year they shipped 2.7 million bb10 units.

    It was meant as a funny to reflect an xx% increase for relatively very low numbers doesn't mean so much. However, what I said is true,
    But you said BBRY not BB10. Oh wait, I see you edited your post. It's true now with the edit, but not true at the time that you wrote it.
    Gesig Boek and dusdal like this.
    08-24-13 07:43 PM
  21. dusdal's Avatar
    But you said BBRY not BB10. Oh wait, I see you edited your post. It's true now with the edit, but not true at the time that you wrote it.
    Yes, fair enough, I noticed I missed adding bb10 when I said it.
    08-24-13 07:55 PM
  22. Etios's Avatar
    Nokia Lumia 520 has awesome specs for the price, Same Snapdragon S4 processor as BB Z10, 512MB ram , 4Inch screen, 8GB flash memory plus card slot, decent 5MP camera and free Lifetime voice guided navigation with full offline support.

    There is no way any OS7 phone can compete with the 520 specially at that price. The only way to compete with this is to lower the price of Q5 to $150-$200.
    08-24-13 08:52 PM
  23. robert_in_la's Avatar
    Disagree...nice try though.

    Posted via CB10
    Actually time will tell but you don't see Nokia/WP8 looking for a buyer now do you.
    08-24-13 08:58 PM
  24. eddy_berry's Avatar
    Actually time will tell but you don't see Nokia/WP8 looking for a buyer now do you.
    True, but there is so much doom and gloom nobody will care to think that a sale is just an option and another option is to have a partnership much like Microsoft and Nokia. BB is doing the job of both Microsoft (software) and Nokia (hardware). I would like to see hardware coming from partners as well. Maybe even put out their 6 devices or whatever and then shut down HW devision slowly while working closely with hardware partners and then move into Software and BES. They have opened the door to any number of possibilities but the only thing everyone sees is a for sale sign. I'd like to keep a level head about all this. CB forums is really making it difficult. Still love this forum though.
    Shanerredflag likes this.
    08-24-13 09:08 PM
  25. Jet Mijares's Avatar
    I have tried the windows 7 and 8.. my phones were a lumia 800 , 520(twice) ,920.. but i had to sell it.. apps like viber whatsapp etc have problems.. if you dont open the app you cant receive any msg.. its not real time.. i ddnt knw my girlfriend already sent me pics, 10+ plus msgs and not to mention the angry msgs.. i really love the camera though but the overall experience not so much.. but i really tried ..

    Posted via CB10
    08-24-13 11:17 PM
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