10-05-13 03:52 AM
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  1. icedkermit's Avatar
    BBRY Board and Executives behavior is appalling and Barbara Stymeist and the rest of the Board need to be held accountable. I plan on joining whoever launches the first lawsuit.
    09-26-13 09:45 AM
  2. birdman_38's Avatar
    Suing them for what, exactly?
    09-26-13 09:53 AM
  3. icedkermit's Avatar
    Suing them for what, exactly?
    Violating their fiduciary duty towards shareholders. The Board of Directors is supposed to be voted in by shareholders to represent shareholders. The Chair, Barbara Stymeist is supposed to be in charge of hiring the CEO, she sits on most if not all of the committees - strategic planning, audit, compensation. There's no way Thorsten's pay package should have been approved. The compensation committee paid bonuses based on BB10's launch exceeding expectations. Most people don't actually read everything the company files. I highly recommend people go through the Management Information Form - it's absolutely offensive.
    sakin13 and milo53 like this.
    09-26-13 10:00 AM
  4. sleepngbear's Avatar
    I am neither a legal nor financial expert by any means. But seeing what I'm seeing, it doesn't look like much of a stretch to make a case that there's been some degree of collusion to intentionally drive the stock price down to facilitate a cheap privatization move, much to the harm of perhaps 90% of the shareholders. I've seen plenty of suits with much less apparent merit.
    Last edited by sleepngbear; 09-26-13 at 10:20 AM.
    kbz1960, bobauckland and kfh227 like this.
    09-26-13 10:00 AM
  5. icedkermit's Avatar
    I am neither a legal not financial expert by any means. But seeing what I'm seeing, it doesn't look like much of a stretch to make a case that there's been some degree of collusion to intentionally drive the stock price down to facilitate a cheap privatization move, much to the harm of perhaps 90% of the shareholders. I've seen plenty of suits with much less apparent merit.
    If we want to get into conspiracy's - why was the BBM launch halted? An amazing launch would have increased the value of the company beyond what fairfax wanted to pay. Why were the layoffs announced only a couple days before Fairfax's? You don't put an offer like this together overnight and there was no way Fairfax was going to announce a $9 bid when the stock was trading at $11. Why did Thorsten Heins and Brian Bidulka sell shares the day of the earnings announcement (they were relatively small amounts, but still). Why was Thorsten's pay package so high. Why were executives paid significant bonuses last year following the BB10 launch (which was delayed, poorly executed, and ultimately didn't work). I'm not a lawyer either, but I know there's enough here to make a case. And even if it isn't success, one should be launched just to prove a point that Boards and Executives need to be held accountable. I guarantee if this company was based in the U.S., several lawsuits would have been filed already.
    09-26-13 10:05 AM
  6. anon1727506's Avatar
    The are either geniuses or idiots.... just not sure which it is yet?
    ukmight likes this.
    09-26-13 10:08 AM
  7. sleepngbear's Avatar
    If we want to get into conspiracy's - why was the BBM launch halted? An amazing launch would have increased the value of the company beyond what fairfax wanted to pay. Why were the layoffs announced only a couple days before Fairfax's? You don't put an offer like this together overnight and there was no way Fairfax was going to announce a $9 bid when the stock was trading at $11. Why did Thorsten Heins and Brian Bidulka sell shares the day of the earnings announcement (they were relatively small amounts, but still). Why was Thorsten's pay package so high. Why were executives paid significant bonuses last year following the BB10 launch (which was delayed, poorly executed, and ultimately didn't work). I'm not a lawyer either, but I know there's enough here to make a case. And even if it isn't success, one should be launched just to prove a point that Boards and Executives need to be held accountable. I guarantee if this company was based in the U.S., several lawsuits would have been filed already.
    This is exactly my point. This bid didn't just happen on Monday. Besides Heins' ridiculous bonus situation, looking back, an argument could be made that everything he's done since being installed as CEO has done the exact opposite of what you'd reasonably expect from a new CEO. I have a hard time believing that he could so thoroughly botch every initiative he's set out on by accident.
    09-26-13 10:19 AM
  8. BB10FTW's Avatar
    It's funny that so many people assume that BlackBerry's downfall was self-induced and planned. That's ridiculous. BlackBerry simply can't continue to do things on its own, they obviously are in worse shape than we previously thought. If you're a shareholder and you got burned, get over it! I understand that you may have lost a lot of money but you shouldn't play with money you cannot afford to lose. Yes this deal does suck, I for one thought they would sell at at least $18 per share. Of course now I can see that my head was in the clouds.

    There will not be any successful lawsuit. BlackBerry has all the evidence they need to prove that they are just awful at running the company. I highly doubt that Thorsten Heins is laughing as he reclines in his solid gold desk chair because shareholders are losing money. It will be next to impossible for him to work anywhere in an executive position after working at BlackBerry so he isn't exactly the winner here. Also people always seem to jump on the fact that Heins has some $55 million stock option and is only killing the company for the money which is just sick. Shareholders make me sick, you accuse someone of having their own interests in mind for the sake of their financial gain when that's exactly what you're doing. Heins has one of the worst jobs on the planet. This poor guy has had to do several massive firings, get ridiculed from media and wall street, run a company that has been taken private and is selling because it cannot sustain itself. Everyone is so quick to point the finger but he took on an extreme challenge and no maybe he didn't do everything right but to attack the board and the CEO because the stock is garbage is just dumb. What if they decided to sell when the stock was sitting closer to $6? BlackBerry stock has been volatile for months and months. Put on your big boy pants and get over it.

    Posted via CB10
    09-26-13 10:25 AM
  9. abwan11's Avatar
    I'm in, you need to add the amazon offer that was never brought to light in the high 20's. Not a word from anyone , new jets and basillie selling out a 9 dollars. Talk about roadmap.

    Posted via CB10
    09-26-13 10:36 AM
  10. glamrlama's Avatar
    The are either geniuses or idiots.... just not sure which it is yet?
    Gidiots. Definitely gidiots.
    09-26-13 10:59 AM
  11. Fuzzballz's Avatar
    BBRY Board and Executives behavior is appalling and Barbara Stymeist and the rest of the Board need to be held accountable. I plan on joining whoever launches the first lawsuit.
    OP, I do believe that there will be shareholder lawsuits. However, they will done by big-dog investors and huge 1000-attorney law firms. They'll take payouts from Watsa in the high 8-figure range to settle their suits, the lawyers will take a big cut, the investors will get an amount that allows their fund managers to say "we didn't lose completely," and that will be the end of it. That's how these things always play out.
    Etios and richardat like this.
    09-26-13 11:45 AM
  12. danprown's Avatar
    Poor Thorsten Heins...

    On a serious note, the last known class action suit was dimissed in the States with the judge opining that the facts alleged showed mismanagement, not malfeasance.

    So until we have the financial disclosure or the facts on the ground change (we know of competing bids, PW buys out the company at 9 a share and "flips" it for 50 a share, etc.), we do not really know whether it was mismanagement or malfeasance. The fact that on its face, every investor is losing money, including PW, suggests that it is most likely mismanagement, rather than malfeasance. The fact is also that so far only one investor group has shown itself that was "rejected" by the board and that was the Android group led by Robin Chan at some point last year, and it is a stretch to say the board rejected the offer improperly at that point.

    Sometimes great companies die, especially when there is a lack of accountability demanded by shareholders. And in tech, they do not die slowly or gracefully, but fall off a cliff. When BB07 stops selling, the services revenue dries up, and Blackberry is dead unless it gets another revenue stream. Simple as that.
    richardat likes this.
    09-26-13 12:49 PM
  13. greggebhardt's Avatar
    The are either geniuses or idiots.... just not sure which it is yet?
    They will walk away with some geting 50+ million dollars no matter how the story ends. There is little incentive to watch out for the stock holder. Any lawsuit will not change this.
    milo53 and richardat like this.
    09-26-13 12:59 PM
  14. icedkermit's Avatar
    It's funny that so many people assume that BlackBerry's downfall was self-induced and planned. That's ridiculous. BlackBerry simply can't continue to do things on its own, they obviously are in worse shape than we previously thought. If you're a shareholder and you got burned, get over it! I understand that you may have lost a lot of money but you shouldn't play with money you cannot afford to lose. Yes this deal does suck, I for one thought they would sell at at least $18 per share. Of course now I can see that my head was in the clouds.

    There will not be any successful lawsuit. BlackBerry has all the evidence they need to prove that they are just awful at running the company. I highly doubt that Thorsten Heins is laughing as he reclines in his solid gold desk chair because shareholders are losing money. It will be next to impossible for him to work anywhere in an executive position after working at BlackBerry so he isn't exactly the winner here. Also people always seem to jump on the fact that Heins has some $55 million stock option and is only killing the company for the money which is just sick. Shareholders make me sick, you accuse someone of having their own interests in mind for the sake of their financial gain when that's exactly what you're doing. Heins has one of the worst jobs on the planet. This poor guy has had to do several massive firings, get ridiculed from media and wall street, run a company that has been taken private and is selling because it cannot sustain itself. Everyone is so quick to point the finger but he took on an extreme challenge and no maybe he didn't do everything right but to attack the board and the CEO because the stock is garbage is just dumb. What if they decided to sell when the stock was sitting closer to $6? BlackBerry stock has been volatile for months and months. Put on your big boy pants and get over it.

    Posted via CB10
    If you're trying to make me feel sorry for Thorsten Heins, you've failed. He's been a mdiocre executive tor several years and for you to argue the 55 million has no impact on his thought process, is delusional. Although he sounds like a robot, he's still human, with human emotions. As a CEO of a high profile company he needs help have thick skin and should be capable of defending the company and himself - neither of which he's done a good job of.

    I acknowledge he inherited a tough situation, but he shouldn't have accepted the position if he wasn't up for it. And I'm tired a people wanting only upside without any downside responsibility. I would have no problem with him getting 100 million if hus turn around plan had worked, but it hasn't and he shouldn't be getting compensated for that.

    I'm not attacking because the stock is garbage, I'm commenting because of the multiple strategic failures, miss executions, job losses. Your defense of him is pathetic and ignorant.

    Posted via CB10
    09-26-13 01:12 PM
  15. icedkermit's Avatar
    It's funny that so many people assume that BlackBerry's downfall was self-induced and planned. That's ridiculous. BlackBerry simply can't continue to do things on its own, they obviously are in worse shape than we previously thought. If you're a shareholder and you got burned, get over it! I understand that you may have lost a lot of money but you shouldn't play with money you cannot afford to lose. Yes this deal does suck, I for one thought they would sell at at least $18 per share. Of course now I can see that my head was in the clouds.

    There will not be any successful lawsuit. BlackBerry has all the evidence they need to prove that they are just awful at running the company. I highly doubt that Thorsten Heins is laughing as he reclines in his solid gold desk chair because shareholders are losing money. It will be next to impossible for him to work anywhere in an executive position after working at BlackBerry so he isn't exactly the winner here. Also people always seem to jump on the fact that Heins has some $55 million stock option and is only killing the company for the money which is just sick. Shareholders make me sick, you accuse someone of having their own interests in mind for the sake of their financial gain when that's exactly what you're doing. Heins has one of the worst jobs on the planet. This poor guy has had to do several massive firings, get ridiculed from media and wall street, run a company that has been taken private and is selling because it cannot sustain itself. Everyone is so quick to point the finger but he took on an extreme challenge and no maybe he didn't do everything right but to attack the board and the CEO because the stock is garbage is just dumb. What if they decided to sell when the stock was sitting closer to $6? BlackBerry stock has been volatile for months and months. Put on your big boy pants and get over it.

    Posted via CB10
    Additionally, to announce 4500 layoffs, a 1 billion write down and a 9 takeover offer and then to cancel your earnings call where you would have to explain yourself is offensive. The board and executives are dodging their responsibility to shareholders, the people who own the company and it is unacceptable.

    Posted via CB10
    09-26-13 01:19 PM
  16. EchoTango's Avatar
    I'm in to !

    I'm calling shenanigans on Fairfax and the BOD.

    It seems theres a cozy little group thats going to get Blackberry for $9 a share while the bad news seems to be oozing out of the woodwork. Its like they want to drive the stock price down so that $9 will seem like an amazing gift!

    The BOD seems to be all smiling and happy probably due to the fact they all have taken substantial payments from Fairfax. I also read today the Fairfax is taking to the big pension funds to see if they will sue or not and probably to give them a promise of relief on their substantial losses.

    In the meantime, the small investors, almost all of us substantially underwater, will pay the cost. We wont even get a chance to participate in the new company !

    Well get our $9 and told to get lost !

    Im definitely in on any class actions launched !
    09-26-13 02:22 PM
  17. undone's Avatar
    But what if the results that get issued tomorrow for the quarter turn out to be a nightmare making that 9 dollars seem like too much? Think there would be a suit? I dont. I am betting its going to be super ugly tomorrow.
    jelp2 likes this.
    09-26-13 02:36 PM
  18. russworman's Avatar
    Personally, I don't see anyone winning a lawsuit against BlackBerry with how things have played out. It would be another story if the stock were trading above $9 and it even appeared that they had another offer possible, but, they don't.

    As far as the payout for Thorsten Heins... he would have to be fired to get any parachute as it were.

    Posted via CB10
    09-26-13 02:57 PM
  19. ray689's Avatar
    Suing them for what, exactly?
    Not to mention then selling shares the say before announcing massive layoffs and a billion dollar loss.

    Posted via CB10
    09-26-13 03:04 PM
  20. undone's Avatar
    Not to mention then selling shares the say before announcing massive layoffs and a billion dollar loss.

    Posted via CB10
    Oh the trustee automatic sale that probably happens ever quarter?
    09-26-13 03:52 PM
  21. boi2012's Avatar
    I do agree that there was something sinister with the premature announcement of the 1 billion write-off, the lay offs and the halt of the BBM launch and yes, based on the timing of everything, it was probably to impact the stock price, but in my opinion, not in-order to underbid and steal the company from shareholders, but probably as a plan Z to save a quickly sinking ship, before it sinks into bankruptcy.

    The fact is BB did its duty and launched BB10 and the new devices. It seemed as though they made a genuine attempt to push and sell the devices. The public didn't bite the bait. BB10 is a bust and BB doesn't have anything to fill BB10's shoes as far as new revenue. The inventory and the expenses are piling up and the revenue for the BB10 devices are probably negative.

    I agree that the BBM launch-halt was manipulated/planned, but in my opinion, it was because of an executive decision made because BBM wasn't ready to be launched and even if it did, it would have entailed new investments, expenses, resources and risks at a time when Blackberry is trying to cut risk, costs and sell the company.

    So, although there have been some PR maneuvering and timing to affect the stock price, I think the ultimate plan was, is, to bring down the stock to a price that is more in line with where the company is financially, so that it can be a realistic, viable target to be sold with immediacy. But, tomorrow we should know more about the financial status and health of the company. You could be right, but, I would just wait and see.
    09-26-13 03:54 PM
  22. Roo Zilla's Avatar
    Why were the layoffs announced only a couple days before Fairfax's?
    Typically, layoff announcements have the effect of buoying up stock price.
    09-26-13 04:01 PM
  23. AngryEdmontonian's Avatar
    Funny how a conspiracy from within makes sense, but when it's from outside, ie Apple/Google/MS/Samsung, its a tinfoil hat type argument
    cjcampbell and djdragon like this.
    09-26-13 04:01 PM
  24. jelp2's Avatar
    Not to mention then selling shares the say before announcing massive layoffs and a billion dollar loss.

    Posted via CB10
    That was an automated sale for taxes. Had nothing to do with layoffs.
    09-26-13 04:03 PM
  25. mset's Avatar
    You guys predicting lawsuits are aware that Barbera Stymiest used to run the TSX, right? You're aware of her CV? If all of us were gathered together with her, she'd be the smartest person in the room, I assure you. Do you really think that she would let anything pass which might be indictable? I can assure you that everything that was done was legal. As was pointed out by danprown earlier, the only thing that will be shown in this case is mismanagement, not malfeasance.

    Your problem is that the system is set up in such a way as to allow big players in situations like this to make lots of money with common stock holders left holding the bag. Shenanigans? Sure. Ilegal? Sorry.

    Re: TH pay package, it's SOP. I'm not saying it's not obscene for a guy to totally screw things up the way he has and get +$50MM as a golden handshake on the way out the door, but that's the way it is in the corporate world.
    09-26-13 04:15 PM
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