08-09-13 08:09 PM
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  1. BBNation's Avatar
    Such small firm is being baked up and funded by shorts, few millions assistance to this firm earn them billions, the job is done and these shorts made money on thursday already


    Posted via CB10
    bungaboy likes this.
    04-13-13 06:34 PM
  2. silversmith75's Avatar
    i am not a share holder but if you can prove the article is false and intended to do damage to the stock.. as a shareholder you can sue them for damages that cost you money...
    fedakd and bungaboy like this.
    04-13-13 06:35 PM
  3. crohns's Avatar
    I totally agree with this thread. They should be shut down and need to face some type of legal action!
    bungaboy likes this.
    04-13-13 06:46 PM
  4. BB Marissa's Avatar
    Why should BlackBerry pursue legal action against them? Because they caused the company and its shareholders material harm by spreading inaccurate, and possibly criminally false information. They have that right, particularly when the information this offender provides is relied upon by investors and traders.

    They also have a legal department to take up this action, so it would be no distraction at all to the current business going on. This is part of doing business. Furthermore, given all the other negative press BlackBerry has been on the receiving end of, its shareholders need to be assured that their interests are being watched out for. DF crossed the line this time, at a time that is critical to the company's climb back to relevance.
    Unlike a government body BlackBerry can not just go into a company to obtain the information required to win a suit. Their us a lot of speculation but no smoking gun

    I am not a lawyer, and I suspect that virtually everyone here demanding a suit us not one either. Do you not think that BlackBerry have run this by people with far more experience of these types of situation than everyone on here?

    Just look at the actions they have taken if you want to know what they should do.

    Posted via CB10
    04-13-13 06:52 PM
  5. Markymark 23's Avatar
    I am a shareholder and agree with most but it's the shareholders who will have to fight the class action fight. BBRY has already moved forward with a request for US/Cdn regulatory investigations. If all goes well and DF is found to have committed an offence(s), I agree with everyone (and history) that the penalty will be insignificant in the scheme of things.

    On the civil/shareholder side of the house, if there's good potential for a win....and a big win at that.....the likelihood of a capable law firm stepping up to the plate to take DF on with little to no cost for shareholders is almost an inevitability - provided that X-percentage of the court award goes to the law firm of course. So we'll see if a firm willing to take the risk considers the proposition a "slam dunk". Any takers here while we're waiting???
    bambinoitaliano, bungaboy and mset like this.
    04-13-13 07:05 PM
  6. Kennedy.L's Avatar
    I am a shareholder. But good luck getting anywhere.

    If these reports are indeed accurate the stock price will rebound so no need to get into a tizzy.

    The market is always right.
    04-13-13 07:09 PM
  7. ray689's Avatar
    The damage is already done. Only way to be undone is for this firm to put out a mother report and retract their previous statement which will not happen because that would only be admitting they lied. So even if the regulators fine them it won't change the face that they have done a lot of damage. For the average phone user who may have been thinking about purchasing the phone, a report of massive returns will turn them off. This goes beyond just the stock price drop for one day.

    Posted via CB10
    zyben and bungaboy like this.
    04-13-13 07:14 PM
  8. portal's Avatar
    BlackBerry should hire a third party to investigate and release the data. Then all shall be clear as water and other smartphone companies can start shaking when they see the results...

    Posted via CB10
    04-13-13 07:15 PM
  9. ray689's Avatar
    I am a shareholder. But good luck getting anywhere.

    If these reports are indeed accurate the stock price will rebound so no need to get into a tizzy.

    The market is always right.
    I would agree with that if it was a free market but market manipulation happens on a daily basis.

    Posted via CB10
    bungaboy likes this.
    04-13-13 07:16 PM
  10. gordo51's Avatar
    The third party is the SEC. I assume BlackBerry will get statements from the carriers regarding return rates to support their claim that Detwiler's statements are false. They will have to present some proof before SEC will launch an investigation. If Detwiler is found guilty of an offense I would expert a significant, for them, fine since they are bad actors. Already been fined once for $250,000. The next should be higher. A class action suit would probably put them out of business.

    Posted via CB10
    bungaboy likes this.
    04-13-13 07:26 PM
  11. BB Marissa's Avatar
    I would agree with that if it was a free market but market manipulation happens on a daily basis.

    Posted via CB10
    Yes it does, but you have to ask yourself why people still do it.
    They do it because it's so hard to prove guilt.

    If BlackBerry were to take out a suit they would be taking a huge risk on so little evidence, and more importantly, they would have to prove complicity to win. As a shareholder, I would be concerned if they took this action risking dividends and future investment.
    Remember, people are innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by BB Marissa; 04-13-13 at 07:45 PM.
    04-13-13 07:26 PM
  12. z10fido's Avatar
    Why is all the focus on the shorts? The longs also do the same thing.

    Posted via CB10
    04-13-13 07:34 PM
  13. ray689's Avatar
    Yea it does.X but you have to ask yourself why people still do it.
    They do it because it's so hard to prove guilt.

    If BlackBerry were to take out a suit they would be taking a huge risk on so little evidence, and more importantly, they would have to prove complicity to win. As a shareholder, I would be concerned if they took this action risking dividends and future investment.
    Remember, people are innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around.

    Posted via CB10
    Yes I agree with you. The below video which another user posted on another thread is a perfect example of how everyone knows this happens and just shrugs it off as "Well this stock is heavily Shorted" right after saying the claims are false as though it's expected that analysts are going to lie.



    Posted via CB10
    bungaboy likes this.
    04-13-13 07:34 PM
  14. Whyareallthegoodnamestaken's Avatar
    Why is all the focus on the shorts? The longs also do the same thing.

    Posted via CB10
    We don't mind them.
    04-13-13 07:41 PM
  15. ray689's Avatar
    The focus is on the shorts because they apparently make up about 1/3 of the shares at the moment. Can't say the same for longs.

    Posted via CB10
    bungaboy likes this.
    04-13-13 07:43 PM
  16. boi2012's Avatar
    "What really makes me sick is the fact that a small firm like Detwiler Fenton can make such ridiculous claims ****without backing them up**** . It is disturbing that someone can make financial claims against a company without the proper backing up of the claims." -OP

    The problem with filing a law suit, is that you, as a shareholder do not have factual proof that the statement made by the firm is false. How do we know the truth, if we don't have proof from either side, just their word? If you look at Blackberry's statement, it's very carefully worded, by stating that sales and returns are better or about the same as "their" expectations. So, it comes down to perception on either end. Blackberry could have had low expectations and the firm could have had higher expectations as far as the Z10 launch. Blackberry states that the return rate is on par with other premium phones. I'm sure the firm was just basing the return rate on their own expectations for Blackberry. So, my point is how the information can be interpreted and spun either way.

    I think that you're fired up based on Blackberry saying that the statement is completely false, but I think you should wait until proof comes out on either side to make a clear judgement. But, if you are an investor, I would caution you to be less bias and look at all sides and signs. There are trolls that post on these boards, but I believe there are many more die hard Blackberry enthusiasts that are speaking from their experience as a genuine consumer. There are many positive reviews and there are many who have or are thinking about returning the device. We will see in actual reports whether there is a higher rate of returns than usual or not, but a lawsuit would be premature without concrete proof that the statement is false.
    fedakd likes this.
    04-13-13 08:26 PM
  17. standan's Avatar
    I totally disagree. I also own shares and I am also frustrated seeing these scumbags manipulating the stock. Management did the right thing by advising the sec, the only thing that matters to me as a shareholder is that bb does not get distracted and continues to develop and roll out good quality products. If they do this, in the end the shorts will get burnt and shareholders will be smiling. Suing will not do anything but cause distractions, which is exactly what the scumbags want.
    Shanerredflag likes this.
    04-13-13 09:00 PM
  18. igotberryfever's Avatar
    I am a share holder and I agree. Sue the rat basturds

    Posted via CB10
    04-13-13 09:13 PM
  19. ray689's Avatar
    "What really makes me sick is the fact that a small firm like Detwiler Fenton can make such ridiculous claims ****without backing them up**** . It is disturbing that someone can make financial claims against a company without the proper backing up of the claims." -OP

    The problem with filing a law suit, is that you, as a shareholder do not have factual proof that the statement made by the firm is false. How do we know the truth, if we don't have proof from either side, just their word? If you look at Blackberry's statement, it's very carefully worded, by stating that sales and returns are better or about the same as "their" expectations. So, it comes down to perception on either end. Blackberry could have had low expectations and the firm could have had higher expectations as far as the Z10 launch. Blackberry states that the return rate is on par with other premium phones. I'm sure the firm was just basing the return rate on their own expectations for Blackberry. So, my point is how the information can be interpreted and spun either way.

    I think that you're fired up based on Blackberry saying that the statement is completely false, but I think you should wait until proof comes out on either side to make a clear judgement. But, if you are an investor, I would caution you to be less bias and look at all sides and signs. There are trolls that post on these boards, but I believe there are many more die hard Blackberry enthusiasts that are speaking from their experience as a genuine consumer. There are many positive reviews and there are many who have or are thinking about returning the device. We will see in actual reports whether there is a higher rate of returns than usual or not, but a lawsuit would be premature without concrete proof that the statement is false.
    You make valid points however the one flaw in your argument is the fact the the analyst claims actually had an impact on the stock as it dropped 8% in one day. Blackberry saying that sales were meeting expectations did not have that much if an impact. You are right we have to wait for numbers but such bold statement by an analyst has a much bigger impact on a stock than what the company says. Now with that said, I can't see a law suite accomplishing anything for anyone. Like I stated in a previous post, the only way this will be fixed is if the firm and analyst themselves either show their proof or publicly rescind their statements ( both of which I don't see happening).

    Posted via CB10
    04-13-13 09:38 PM
  20. HomerJ Simpson's Avatar
    Disclosure: I am a shareholder and long BBRY.

    Sure I'd like to go after DF, but we'd probably lose. I believe that what they wrote is based enough on opinion and interpretation that they can hide behind their 1st Amendment rights... you know, "Freedom of speech, freedom of free press, etc.". We've all seen the analyst language before: "... in our view...", "We believe...", "It is our belief...", etc. They are stating opinion and not fact.

    In my personal opinion, I think Detwiler Fenton are dirty. I think all the evidence points that way. I think their report is misleading. Do I think there is enough evidence to convict them... nope. Belief, supposition and an angry mob isn't going to convince a criminal or civil court. What we have is an incredibly - almost impossible - task of finding the "smoking gun": The money trail to the person/group(s) that is benefiting from the drop in share price. Because the officers and analysts of DF were smart enough to not personally hold any interest in BBRY, the SEC would have to show someone else either directly or at arms length materially benefited from the report. With huge hedge fund money behind a lot of these Bear raids, you'd be chasing the trail of a ghost. Call me a downer, but unless these guys are completely incompetent no one is going to find anything. I know these guys have been sanctioned before for various other seedy behaviour... but they continue to be in business.

    Blackberry played this right. Publish a strong statement and then forward the matter to the authorities. Now wait and see what happens.
    04-13-13 10:07 PM
  21. kfh227's Avatar
    I take heart in knowing that the guy at Detwiler Fenton that made these claims is probably licensed to do what he does and that he will hopefully be flipping hamburgers soon. Some suspect teh guy is already fired from Detwiler Fenton.
    bungaboy likes this.
    04-13-13 10:09 PM
  22. tonyrenier's Avatar
    I'm a small shareholder, but I'm in if they can be proven to be culpable, as they appear, not just now but over and over, they've supplied lots of fuel to make money for the bears and lose money for the rest of us.
    Class Action suits don't cost anyone but the lawyers, but they get the most out of them. That's Okay as long as Detwiler-Fenton is discredited.
    bungaboy likes this.
    04-13-13 10:12 PM
  23. mkbbryfan's Avatar
    Agree they should sue them.
    They should also investigate the hedge funds (if any) that "Buy their research" i.e. pay them to write negative reports about BBRY...

    Posted via CB10
    bungaboy likes this.
    04-13-13 10:22 PM
  24. pandapurple's Avatar
    Spreading by social media is far more effective than suing. The easiest way to discredit the returns claim is to increase the sales numbers significantly. Facts always stand up. Those using Twitter should make sure everyone knows BBRY is fighting back a nasty lie to hurt its rep. This may win some more customers over.

    Posted via CB10
    04-13-13 10:25 PM
  25. EauRouge's Avatar
    Aye!

    10chars
    04-13-13 10:34 PM
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