09-17-13 11:51 AM
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  1. RyanGermann's Avatar
    You misunderstood my question.
    I sure did or I would have said "Oh, no, this is an internet discussion forum. I was just expressing surprise at the figure of $2 billion, and speculating that it might be a disincentive to shut down the hardware business." You made some assumptions about why I said what I said.

    You said that the $2BB is "another reason why the OS / Hardware should be given a proper run for the money". I am asking you what number you are using as an assumption about how much it would cost an acquirer to undertake this effort.
    I'm sure I have no idea... but what "effort" are you referring to? Buying something then closing it down immediately? Or buying it and doing nothing useful with it until it drops in value to zero? Or buying it and then leveraging that asset in creative ways to build a business? Please clarify.

    You must have a number in your mind, because if you thought that the effort would cost i.e. $4BB, you obviously wouldn't advocate the attempt.
    Nope. No number, but I still advocate for it! If "the internet" wants to base my qualifications to work at McDonald's or BMO Nesbitt Burns on what I post on a discussion forum, I guess I'll have to live with that.

    I see you edited your post above to add this. If you don't have a number in mind before suggesting that the high cost is a reason not to shut it down, I suggest you avoid business as a career.
    I edit posts all the time after I reread them. It's why there's an "edit" button there. Sometimes, if I feel the change is significant, I will put "EDIT:" in the post. I didn't think that the phrase you are calling me out for was worthy of that, but it was a clarification. Feel free to edit your post to reflect my edit, you're the boss of you. I'm not sorry and I'm not going to change my behaviour. I prefer my method to multiple single line posts as replies to the multiple messages. I make one post at a time and use multi-quote. I would rather commit my change and edit is because I've had too many experiences (mostly on the iPad and on my Android tablet and, unfortunately, on my Z10 and PlayBook... common thread: Webkit?) where the browser goes mental and won't except text input or I stray too close to the "back" button at the bottom of the device and lose it all.

    All I did was express a bit of surprise that $2 billion would be the cost to shut the hardware division down. I hadn't heard that figure and assumed that if someone acquired BlackBerry's business (not an asset sale, but they buy the company) that there might be more to be gained by turning the hardware business around than spending $2 billion on shutting down the hardware division. I have no idea if it's an accurate number. None whatsoever. Didn't give it much thought, actually... but since you haven't countered with "here's why shutting down the business even if it costs $2 billion IS a good idea" or "Actually, it would be less than $2 Billion" or "Hardware is dead, they should shut it down at all costs" I guess that... on second thought, I won't try to guess why you are, in my opinion (forgive me, text doesn't always get the intended emotion across)... um... 'upset'.

    At the end of it, as someone who believes there is hope for BlackBerry-branded hardware (whether BlackBerry owns manufacturing sites or subcontracts to Foxconn and the like) I thought well maybe this means that any buyer who WANTS the business would be a buyer that wants to maintain the hardware business, since it might cost so much to shut it down. Put another way, I was speculating that in order to get maximum value for current BlackBerry shareholders, the highest bids might come in from a buyer who wants to maintain rather than close the hardware business, because who's going to bid top dollar for something with a $2 billion liability built in? They'd probably bid $2 billion less than someone who thinks the hardware business DOES have value.

    EDIT:
    I also asked you what type of acquirer would be required to undertake such an effort.
    I can't answer that, but I can suggest that if none of the prospective buyers want to make hardware, then I guess what will happen is BlackBerry will sell off the bits of itself that buyers do want and then be left with a impotent hardware business, which it will have to close, because the hardware business on it's own isn't viable, in my opinion.... unless they're left with the hardware AND the OS in which case they could try to make a go of hardware, but since that's failed under the current management, they'd probably at least need a new management team (which, in the essentials, is almost like a new company, if the new management has a different approach to designing and marketing hardware, which I hope they will.)
    Last edited by RyanGermann; 09-15-13 at 04:44 PM.
    Kid Vibe likes this.
    09-15-13 03:41 PM
  2. epyon52328's Avatar
    I hadn't seen the keyboard patents specifically called out as being of interest to prospective buyers. It's not really surprising, but who do you think is the most likely candidate to purchase the keyboard patents? I guess Samsung.
    Maybe Motorola since their likely going to be releasing a Droid 5. Although given the half A** specs I don't knoe why they bothered.

    4.3? 720p display, a Snapdragon S4 Plus dual-core processor and Adreno 255 GPU, 1GB of RAM, 16GB of storage, supports microSD, features wireless charging capabilities and has an NFC radio.

    Not really that much improved over the Droid 4. I guess it's good that BlackBerry is the only company focused on putting out high end physical keyboards.

    Sent from my Q10
    09-15-13 11:46 PM
  3. mset's Avatar
    I'm sure I have no idea... but what "effort" are you referring to? Buying something then closing it down immediately? Or buying it and doing nothing useful with it until it drops in value to zero? Or buying it and then leveraging that asset in creative ways to build a business? Please clarify.

    Nope. No number...blah blah blah blah for another 2000 words
    First off, welcome to CB!

    Wow, you're very emotional, aren't you? Take it easy.

    The effort I'm referring to is that which would be needed from an acquirer to do what you suggest. You seem to think that the effort you described can be done at zero cost. Do you know what 'capital cost' means? Do you know what a VC firm is?

    The point I was trying to make, which you're studiously ignoring, is that when a PE firm buys a struggling company for its breakup value, there are huge tax incentives for them to book losses. You didn't consider this, and now that it's been pointed out, instead of saying 'Oh, thanks, I wasn't aware of that', you're doing the Internet message board thing where you go off but ignore the point being made.

    You're young, and you know little or nothing about business. This is obvious from reading through that last diatribe. You're arguing from the heart, because you love Blackberry. No problem with that, but try to show a bit more maturity when you've tried to discuss something you know little or nothing about and someone politely points it out to you.
    Last edited by mset; 09-16-13 at 01:35 PM.
    09-16-13 01:31 AM
  4. Shanerredflag's Avatar
    First off, welcome to CB!

    Wow, you're very emotional, aren't you? Take it easy.

    The effort I'm referring to is that which would be needed from an acquirer to do what you suggest. You seem to think that the effort you described can be done at zero cost. Do you know what 'capital cost' means? Do you know what's VC firm is?

    The point I was trying to make, which you're studiously ignoring, is that when a PE firm buys a struggling company for its breakup value, there are huge tax incentives for them to book losses. You didn't consider this, and now that it's been pointed out, instead of saying 'Oh, thanks, I wasn't aware of that', you're doing the Internet message board thing where you go off but ignore the point being made.

    You're young, and you know little or nothing about business. This is obvious from reading through that last diatribe. You're arguing from the heart, because you love Blackberry. No problem with that, but try to show a bit more maturity when you've tried to discuss something you know little or nothing about and someone politely points it out to you.

    Posted via CB10
    09-16-13 08:21 AM
  5. RyanGermann's Avatar
    First off, welcome to CB!

    Wow, you're very emotional, aren't you? Take it easy.

    No problem with that, but try to show a bit more maturity when you've tried to discuss something you know little or nothing about and someone politely points it out to you.
    EDIT : Blah blah 2000 mature words about stones and glass houses... sorry we got off on the wrong foot.
    09-16-13 08:44 AM
  6. birdman_38's Avatar
    Simple, the high number to shut down the handset business is the cost of getting out of all the agreements to build phones. Last numbers I saw had BBRY on the hook for ~$5 B.
    If that's the case it's safe to say BlackBerry as a whole will sell for cheap. I'd like to see your source though please.
    09-16-13 10:40 PM
  7. m1a1mg's Avatar
    If that's the case it's safe to say BlackBerry as a whole will sell for cheap. I'd like to see your source though please.
    Since you asked so nicely.

    BlackBerry (BBRY) Purchase Obligations Will Limit Takeout Premium, Says Pacific Crest
    09-17-13 07:46 AM
  8. birdman_38's Avatar
    Interesting, thanks. I've never seen a company worth so much and so little all at the same time
    09-17-13 08:52 AM
  9. cjcampbell's Avatar
    Interesting, thanks. I've never seen a company worth so much and so little all at the same time
    Don't completely discount what Faucette estimates but don't take it at face value either. He has been the biggest bear proponent and has had the absolute lowest evaluations for BlackBerry. Find a big bull valuation and the reality should fall somewhere in the middle.
    09-17-13 09:17 AM
  10. m1a1mg's Avatar
    Everything seems to wrap around what people want to do with the mobile division. If, and it's a big if, BBRY can't sell phones, there is no reason to believe that someone else will be able to as well.
    09-17-13 11:51 AM
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