1. birdman_38's Avatar
    I'm not on the FUD side but Chen did make minor mistakes:

    We are pulling out / not concentrating on consumer market (changed this message a week later to say they are targeting prosumers)
    I don't recall him mentioning the "prosumer" thing. Can you point to an article?
    02-18-15 11:28 AM
  2. markmall's Avatar
    I'm spooked by the silence. All the hype is gone. I don't think that they are reaching CFOs any better than Heins. They needed a clever marketing push but did not know how to do it. ATT still has not been selling the Passport? How many months has it been since the phone was released?

    Will ATT lift a finger to sell bbry phones?

    If sales are not there this quarter, what cards are left to play?

    I am really pulling for bbry the company and stock but I sold my shares for now. I need for the bad news to come out.

    Posted via CB10
    02-18-15 12:15 PM
  3. anon1727506's Avatar
    I'm spooked by the silence. All the hype is gone. I don't think that they are reaching CFOs any better than Heins. They needed a clever marketing push but did not know how to do it. ATT still has not been selling the Passport? How many months has it been since the phone was released?
    No, about five

    Will ATT lift a finger to sell bbry phones?
    They agreed to carry it... so that qualifies as lifting a finger (more than Verizon did). But Ads and marketing... I doubt it.

    If sales are not there this quarter, what cards are left to play?
    Don't think the Passport is really the key.... the Classic is the "go to" device. And we won't know how well it is received until June. After that point, it will be time for the IoT to start producing.... or Chen to do a Thor and put the "For Sale Sign" back out with a "Reduced for Quick Sale" sign too.

    I am really pulling for bbry the company and stock but I sold my shares for now. I need for the bad news to come out.
    ? You want some bad news so the price will fall so you can buy in again? Way to take one for the team...
    02-18-15 04:13 PM
  4. eyesopen1111's Avatar
    I guess the answer to the original question is, no one really knows how the new devices are fairing.
    Oh, BlackBerry knows. Chen is concealing the userbase because BlackBerry certainly knows the number of BlackBerry IDs that are active and for which types and models of BlackBerry smartphone they've been used. So why not tell the rest of us? This info would really complement the sales data to show us what's what. My guess is that the numbers could be better, but we will know more based in what Chen says or doesn't say at MWC (or otherwise).
    02-18-15 05:18 PM
  5. Toodeurep's Avatar
    I think we would all love to hear from BlackBerry on the userbase issue.... (think they were asked at the last stockholder meeting, but didn't reply).

    I do think that in may markets that BlackBerries have enjoy a very long life.... if a user upgraded they either sell or they give it to a family member. BBOS devices were back in the day always highly sought after on ebay and other markets. BIS made the operating cost of owning a smartphone cheaper, and allowed BlackBerry to continue to make money on devices that were 4, 5 or 6+ years old. But as those markets have matured and carriers have upgraded equipment... BIS has become less important - some markets are even reporting that carriers are now charging more for BIS plans.

    You also have to figure in how many users have multiple devices... many here even own multiple version (colors) of the same device. So there really is no way to know what the install base for say BB10 is today.

    But the simple truth is that marketshare based on sales are an indicator of where the over all install userbase is headed. And while BlackBerry MIGHT be making more profits (between write-offs and sales I'm not so sure), that is a short term win if they can't carve out a large enough userbase to make staying in hardware an option. Only selling 8 Million devices a year is going to give you a pretty small install base.
    Addressing the part I have in bold text.

    In a market that is exploding with growth in almost every category pure sales data isn't enough for me. The Android OS is swallowing up market share of sales, but that is about it. I think I read that their $/unit sold fell about 13% and from what I can tell iOS is still the leader in mobile revenue.
    02-18-15 06:00 PM
  6. EchoTango's Avatar
    In a market that is exploding with growth in almost every category pure sales data isn't enough for me. The Android OS is swallowing up market share of sales, but that is about it. I think I read that their $/unit sold fell about 13% and from what I can tell iOS is still the leader in mobile revenue.
    In fact Samsung lost money on handsets last quarter. This is the net result of Apple's domination of the Smartphone market where the only way to stay in the retail channel is to slash prices to compete with Apple's punitive distributor agreements. For example, Sprint has to pay Apple $50 for every non-Apple all touch device they sold ? Who do you think picked up that $50 ?

    I wonder what else is in those contracts ?
    02-18-15 07:12 PM
  7. anon1727506's Avatar
    Addressing the part I have in bold text.

    In a market that is exploding with growth in almost every category pure sales data isn't enough for me. The Android OS is swallowing up market share of sales, but that is about it. I think I read that their $/unit sold fell about 13% and from what I can tell iOS is still the leader in mobile revenue.
    In fact Samsung lost money on handsets last quarter. This is the net result of Apple's domination of the Smartphone market where the only way to stay in the retail channel is to slash prices to compete with Apple's punitive distributor agreements. For example, Sprint has to pay Apple $50 for every non-Apple all touch device they sold ? Who do you think picked up that $50 ?

    I wonder what else is in those contracts ?
    I agree that sales aren't everything... that in the Android ecosystem many of the traditional hardware manufactures are struggling to make a profit. But you have to admit that Google is doing just fine sitting back and making their money from advertisers and from a few app sales. Apple is the real winner with their much higher margins and their finger in all the pies.... like any manufacturer with a popular product would. (Wasn't aware that Sprint pay's Apple for every non-Apple device they sold.... If true, that just goes to show how badly Sprint thinks they need to deal with Apple)

    Toodeurep I do agree that sales or userbase size aren't everything... but if in look at BlackBerry's financials I think it's clear that for BlackBerry there needs to be a large enough user base to support the company, and they are dangerously close to that already.
    02-19-15 08:25 AM
  8. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    For example, Sprint has to pay Apple $50 for every non-Apple all touch device they sold ?
    Got a link for this? I'd like to read more about it.
    sentimentGX4 and anon1727506 like this.
    02-21-15 09:25 AM
  9. EchoTango's Avatar
    This came to light last year when there were questions a to why Sprint would not sell the Z10.

    Sprint passing on the BlackBerry Z10 - Will offer Q10 'later this year' | CrackBerry.com
    02-21-15 11:13 AM
  10. nt300's Avatar
    Where on earth do you come up with this info???
    LOL was thinking the same thing. A figment of the imagination perhaps.

    Posted by Q5
    BACK-2-BLACK likes this.
    02-21-15 11:22 AM
  11. nt300's Avatar
    This came to light last year when there were questions a to why Sprint would not sell the Z10.

    Sprint passing on the BlackBerry Z10 - Will offer Q10 'later this year' | CrackBerry.com
    This is called Apple Ripoff Contracts. Verizon was also locked into this nonsense and ended up owing Apple over $14 Billion due to unsold iPhones.
    So that is why they are force feeding iCrap's onto people regardless what device you actually want.

    This should be illegal for any company. Hence why I hate Apple.

    Posted by Q5
    02-21-15 11:27 AM
  12. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    This came to light last year when there were questions a to why Sprint would not sell the Z10.

    Sprint passing on the BlackBerry Z10 - Will offer Q10 'later this year' | CrackBerry.com
    I'm not seeing anything about Sprint having to pay Apple anything there. The article says,
    Sprint is in a tricky agreement with Apple, so they essentially lose money on any other touchscreen device they sell. It's totally dumb and also makes Sprint the only one of the major US carriers to pass on the Z10. AT&T, Verizon and T-Mobile have all confirmed their plans to carry the Z10.
    and doesn't go into specifics or cite a source. I'd be skeptical of your claim if that's the only evidence you have to back it up.
    sentimentGX4, TGR1 and anon1727506 like this.
    02-21-15 11:54 AM
  13. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    This came to light last year when there were questions a to why Sprint would not sell the Z10.

    Sprint passing on the BlackBerry Z10 - Will offer Q10 'later this year' | CrackBerry.com
    That link is vague in how Sprint "loses money" for each iPhone sold. There is no basis for the number you pulled out of the air $50 or that Sprint must pay Apple in any amount for any non-Apple device sold. Such a practice you describe would be monopolistic and illegal.

    More than likely these articles are describing how the carriers are committed to purchase a set number of iPhones. If the carrier doesn't sell the iPhones, the carrier loses money by having unsold inventory. So for each Z10 sold is that is one iPhone that could have left inventory. Apple doesn't actually get paid money for each non-Apple device.
    02-21-15 12:22 PM
  14. Shanerredflag's Avatar
    Not true at all...Samsung has actually admitted they had paid persons to "comment in a disparaging way" concerning competing devices on various forums.

    http://www.patentlyapple.com/patentl...-you-lose.html

    Appears some FUD has already been removed from here lol.
    Last edited by Shanerredflag; 02-21-15 at 03:06 PM.
    02-21-15 01:32 PM
  15. world traveler and former ceo's Avatar
    This is called Apple Ripoff Contracts. Verizon was also locked into this nonsense and ended up owing Apple over $14 Billion due to unsold iPhones.
    So that is why they are force feeding iCrap's onto people regardless what device you actually want.

    This should be illegal for any company. Hence why I hate Apple.

    Posted by Q5
    I agree.. and so does the CRTC in Canada which is going After Apple and its "illegal contracts" with Canadian telcos... will be interesting to see how that unfolds.. Apple is of course using its legal muscle to try to delay as long as possible... Surprised the EU did not go after Apple also....

    Posted via CB10
    02-21-15 06:20 PM
  16. RH1Pearl's Avatar
    In fact Samsung lost money on handsets last quarter. This is the net result of Apple's domination of the Smartphone market where the only way to stay in the retail channel is to slash prices to compete with Apple's punitive distributor agreements. For example, Sprint has to pay Apple $50 for every non-Apple all touch device they sold ? Who do you think picked up that $50 ?

    I wonder what else is in those contracts ?
    Samsung did not lose money on handsets last quarter. They reported a huge dip in profits. As for the drop in Samsung's revenue, it's other Android manufacturers such as Lenovo and Xiaomi that are mainly eating into Samsung's sales in China and developing markets.
    TGR1 and techvisor like this.
    02-21-15 06:59 PM
  17. TGR1's Avatar
    Oh, BlackBerry knows. Chen is concealing the userbase because BlackBerry certainly knows the number of BlackBerry IDs that are active and for which types and models of BlackBerry smartphone they've been used. So why not tell the rest of us? This info would really complement the sales data to show us what's what. My guess is that the numbers could be better, but we will know more based in what Chen says or doesn't say at MWC (or otherwise).
    It's become the norm for companies not to breakdown by model when reporting sales. While I am certainly curious, i also totally see the strategic value of not giving too much detail away. They are under no obligation to pass full sales data to the general public. And I believe you can buy reports if you really have to have the info.
    02-21-15 07:11 PM
  18. birdman_38's Avatar
    This is called Apple Ripoff Contracts.
    Is that the technical term for them? Lol

    Surprised your user name doesn't reflect your Apple haterade.
    techvisor likes this.
    02-21-15 07:20 PM
  19. eyesopen1111's Avatar
    It's become the norm for companies not to breakdown by model when reporting sales. While I am certainly curious, i also totally see the strategic value of not giving too much detail away. They are under no obligation to pass full sales data to the general public. And I believe you can buy reports if you really have to have the info.
    Companies that have good news to report tend to speak up--the positive numbers are social proof of value and it's good advertising to let people know. The companies that remain silent, or that tend to be evasive, usually have nothing very good to report. Trust me, if Chen would have sold massive numbers of Passport and Classic phones, he would have been shouting that from the mountain top! Part of his job as CEO is to do so. Instead, we get *crickets*.
    sentimentGX4 and techvisor like this.
    02-21-15 07:29 PM
  20. Shanerredflag's Avatar
    Similar to allot of large company's...I recall the world's largest company (by capitalization) doesn't break out their number specific to each device either...i.e. Two weeks ago.

    Classically Posted.
    02-21-15 07:37 PM
  21. world traveler and former ceo's Avatar
    Is that the technical term for them? Lol

    Surprised your user name doesn't reflect your Apple haterade.
    Ops ignore..

    Posted via CB10
    02-21-15 07:40 PM
  22. EchoTango's Avatar
    I think if you check their last quarter earning you'll find they lost on cell phones but made a profit in their other businesses.

    Samsung did not lose money on handsets last quarter. They reported a huge dip in profits. As for the drop in Samsung's revenue, it's other Android manufacturers such as Lenovo and Xiaomi that are mainly eating into Samsung's sales in China and developing markets.
    02-22-15 02:12 PM
  23. markmall's Avatar
    I don't invest in stocks to be a part of a team or a community or anything else. It's solely to make money. Being emotionally attached to a stock can be a money-losing proposition. Every quarter BBRY seems to disappoint in their sales of new OS devices. It's been the same thing over and over again. I thought that they had momentum on the Passport launch, but then they didn't seem to have any devices to ship for months. Also, are they making any headway with IT staffs? No announcements of anything whereas before everytime they converted some anonymous 50-person business they would do a press release.

    I'm not going to get caught again when revenue misses badly. Maybe the server software side is going to make the difference.
    02-22-15 11:28 PM
  24. Glenn Biddle's Avatar
    Good for you, I'm holding on to my shares I assume you're shorting. We'll have to see which strategy pays off.

    Posted via CB10
    02-23-15 01:00 AM
  25. anon1727506's Avatar
    Good for you, I'm holding on to my shares I assume you're shorting. We'll have to see which strategy pays off.

    Posted via CB10
    Why does everyone with a different view have to be working for "someone" to damage the value of BBRY? There have been people questioning BlackBerry's products and business decisions on CrackBerry... LONG before some here got so concerned with the stock valuation. I agree with markmall... being emotionally attached to a stock can be a money-losing proposition.

    Heck evey Kevin and Bla1ze have called a number of decisions into question. And it's pretty clear that right now Bla1ze isn't very impressed with the 10.3.1 update release.... maybe the shorters have gotten to him to?
    techvisor likes this.
    02-23-15 10:38 AM
122 12345

Similar Threads

  1. Mobile Tech Review hands on with the AT&T Passport
    By LuvULongTime in forum General BlackBerry Discussion
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 03-25-15, 11:32 AM
  2. BlackBerry Classic on Verizon Feb 26th
    By jfolland in forum Verizon Wireless
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 02-25-15, 09:42 PM
  3. Classic @ VZW, It's official 2-26
    By smithm565 in forum General BlackBerry Discussion
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 02-24-15, 12:10 PM
  4. Screen flashing and jumping
    By rosemary quaye in forum Ask a Question
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 02-24-15, 11:28 AM
  5. Verizon confirms BlackBerry Classic sales start Feb. 26
    By CrackBerry News in forum CrackBerry.com News Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-24-15, 10:40 AM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD