[digitalsurfboard]

where do the Galaxy S5 and iPhone 6 rank on amazon? if north americans rely on carrier subsidies then they shouldn't rank too high either. right? i dunno how to check the rankings.

i hope i'm wrong, but i have a bad feeling about classic sales. are they marketing directly to CIOs and IT departments. cause no one in the general population seems to know about the classic.

[Merivel]

if you could convince Marquees Brownlee and/or Erica Griffin self-made youtube mobile review stars you could see BB sales rise.
I wanted to break away from Android and Iphone so I watch a lot of videos.
I was under the impression that BB OS was like iOS meaning all devices get the same OS upgrade, so looking that the Classic had inferior specs than the Z30 i got myself the Z30. But was very disappointed that i couldn't upgrade to 10.3 thats was the reason for me to go BB.
I'm also of the idea that a physical keyboard looks crappy. So I'm in the process of my first 10.3 autoloader and see what happens.
I do love the hub...
I think BB made a mistake... they put the EMERGENCY BUTTON to close to the volume keys and also to the OKAY key when unlocking your device.... I already accidentally pressed it during the night (i always listen to audiobooks while i go to sleep) trying to lower the volume by feel.
i love the z30 but i think BB should upgrade all their OS FOR all devices like Apple. Anyway happy to have joined the BB family

[EchoTango]

if you could convince Marquees Brownlee and/or Erica Griffin self-made youtube mobile review stars you could see BB sales rise.
I wanted to break away from Android and Iphone so I watch a lot of videos.
I was under the impression that BB OS was like iOS meaning all devices get the same OS upgrade, so looking that the Classic had inferior specs than the Z30 i got myself the Z30. But was very disappointed that i couldn't upgrade to 10.3 thats was the reason for me to go BB.
I'm also of the idea that a physical keyboard looks crappy. So I'm in the process of my first 10.3 autoloader and see what happens.
I do love the hub...
I think BB made a mistake... they put the EMERGENCY BUTTON to close to the volume keys and also to the OKAY key when unlocking your device.... I already accidentally pressed it during the night (i always listen to audiobooks while i go to sleep) trying to lower the volume by feel.
i love the z30 but i think BB should upgrade all their OS FOR all devices like Apple. Anyway happy to have joined the BB family

I completely agree. Creating two user classes, one with the latest OS and a large existing user base with a lessor version is just wrong. I'm not adverse to a month or two to encourage upgrades but this delay is nothing more than putting your loyal fans in distress for no apparent purpose.

BTW....I have 10.3....sorry all.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

if you could convince Marquees Brownlee and/or Erica Griffin self-made youtube mobile review stars you could see BB sales rise.
I wanted to break away from Android and Iphone so I watch a lot of videos.
I was under the impression that BB OS was like iOS meaning all devices get the same OS upgrade, so looking that the Classic had inferior specs than the Z30 i got myself the Z30. But was very disappointed that i couldn't upgrade to 10.3 thats was the reason for me to go BB.
I'm also of the idea that a physical keyboard looks crappy. So I'm in the process of my first 10.3 autoloader and see what happens.
I do love the hub...
I think BB made a mistake... they put the EMERGENCY BUTTON to close to the volume keys and also to the OKAY key when unlocking your device.... I already accidentally pressed it during the night (i always listen to audiobooks while i go to sleep) trying to lower the volume by feel.
i love the z30 but i think BB should upgrade all their OS FOR all devices like Apple. Anyway happy to have joined the BB family

Marketing sells products... and today there are a number of outlets for a company to use for marketing their products, and most successful campaigns are built using many of these.

But the key is having a market to advertise too.... and right now I'm not sure there is much of a purpose in marketing outside of their target market - IT Professionals and CIO, CFO....

[Shanerredflag]

Marketing sells products... and today there are a number of outlets for a company to use for marketing their products, and most successful campaigns are built using many of these.

But the key is having a market to advertise too.... and right now I'm not sure there is much of a purpose in marketing outside of their target market - IT Professionals and CIO, CFO....

Perhaps there is a plan in place...like getting cash flow positive first?? Makes sense to me.

Classically Posted.

[EchoTango]

Yes, I agree. Blackberry has been rather quiet for the past few weeks and I always hopeful this is a sign they are out visiting clients and sorting out their marketing/sales channels, which they said they would be addressing on the last earnings call. Unfortunately, they also may be looking at "strategic options" and given we've heard nothing, you always tend to think the worst.

I expect we'll get some major announcements in a few weeks which will tell the tale or at least give us some idea of what their up to.

They do need to start selling some product after all the recent re-orgs and downsizing in order to better match their target market.

Perhaps there is a plan in place...like getting cash flow positive first?? Makes sense to me.

Classically Posted.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Perhaps there is a plan in place...like getting cash flow positive first?? Makes sense to me.

Classically Posted.

The best laid plans....

I'm aware that they need cash flow to be positive. And that Chen has done an outstanding job cutting cost, selling assets and getting tax savings, but you can only do those things to a point... revenues are needed also (stabilized at the least, but growing would be better), so that your cost cutting doesn't impact operational performance.

[Shanerredflag]

The best laid plans....

I'm aware that they need cash flow to be positive. And that Chen has done an outstanding job cutting cost, selling assets and getting tax savings, but you can only do those things to a point... revenues are needed also (stabilized at the least, but growing would be better), so that your cost cutting doesn't impact operational performance.

Holy FUD slinging...you never...ever miss an opportunity. You have a gift I tell ya. What would you do different...given the mess Chen walked into and the benefit of hindsight please explain what could have been done better.
Please leave out the rehashed posted a million times FUD. Thx.

Classically Posted.

[eyesopen1111]

The best laid plans....

I'm aware that they need cash flow to be positive. And that Chen has done an outstanding job cutting cost, selling assets and getting tax savings, but you can only do those things to a point... revenues are needed also (stabilized at the least, but growing would be better), so that your cost cutting doesn't impact operational performance.

Are things stable at BlackBerry? I heard that when you factor in the loss of BBOS 7 phone users with the number of new BB10 users, things might not be looking so stable after all. When is the next earnings report that might shed some light on this?

[Troy Tiscareno]

Cost-cutting has almost certainly had an impact on the delay of 10.3 rolling out to other devices. By cutting development down to a skeleton crew, they simply don't have the resources to get the updated OS working on all phones quickly (and, remember, the pool of different models continues to grow). I strongly suspect that the Z10, Q10, and Q5 will be EOL'd after 10.3, and that future updates will be limited to the newer models, and this delay in 10.3 shows the necessity of doing that.

All of those staffing cuts DO have an impact - they weren't all "fat"; quite a bit of "meat" was also cut...

[Shanerredflag]

Perhaps...but doubtful....Apple has 20,000 engineers and the EXACT same OS for a decade and they totally blew the 8...but launched anyway. 8.1 fixed a few issues but not all.

As for EOL...think you're right, time to move on.



Classically Posted.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Holy FUD slinging...you never...ever miss an opportunity. You have a gift I tell ya. What would you do different...given the mess Chen walked into and the benefit of hindsight please explain what could have been done better.
Please leave out the rehashed posted a million times FUD. Thx.

Classically Posted.

You did reply to me first with a comment that was a little out of the blue... and you didn't have to rehash that "there is a plan" for the millionth time either. Mike and Jim had their plan... Thor had his plan ... and now Chen has his plan. It's great that there is a PLAN!


In hindsight.... Chen should have stuck with what he knew. His first comments about maybe getting rid of hardware was a HUGE mistake where confidence in the company and hesitation to use BlackBerry to update smartphones was already an issue with many corporate buyers. His latest comments on App equality being a Net Neutrality issue is just a further example that he should have stuck with what he knew.

[Shanerredflag]

You did reply to me first with a comment that was a little out of the blue... and you didn't have to rehash that "there is a plan" for the millionth time either. Mike and Jim had their plan... Thor had his plan ... and now Chen has his plan. It's great that there is a PLAN!


In hindsight.... Chen should have stuck with what he knew. His first comments about maybe getting rid of hardware was a HUGE mistake where confidence in the company and hesitation to use BlackBerry to update smartphones was already an issue with many corporate buyers. His latest comments on App equality being a Net Neutrality issue is just a further example that he should have stuck with what he knew.

I thought perhaps the reality of cash flow positive before spending was rel�vent.

Please post some links where Chen said he was dumping hardware...I follow this outfit pretty close and done recall a single direct quote from Chen stating that. Perhaps I missed it??

Classically Posted.

[notafanofyou]

Holy FUD slinging...you never...ever miss an opportunity. You have a gift I tell ya. What would you do different...given the mess Chen walked into and the benefit of hindsight please explain what could have been done better.
Please leave out the rehashed posted a million times FUD. Thx.

Classically Posted.

Don't waste your time . It's amazing how much time and effort they spend on CB. No sane person would waste that much time and effort spreading FUD without monetary compensation.

Posted via CB10

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Don't waste your time . It's amazing how much time and effort they spend on CB. No sane person would waste that much time and effort spreading FUD without monetary compensation.

Posted via CB10

Who is they??

Never EVER claimed to be a sane person... but the institute is helping a lot.

[Toodeurep]

Maybe if you could be specific in what you don't agree with....

The numbers are for BlackBerry - .5% is market share for sales based on the IDC IDC: Smartphone OS Market Share 2014, 2013, 2012, and 2011, and 8 million is a guess of where sales will be for this year (currently that have recognized revenue on 5.6 million through the 3rd quarter - eight million assumes a slight increase due to the Passport and Classic). But Porsche is really only about .2% of the overall car market in sales.

The rest is just a guess as to why people and companies are not buying BlackBerry devices. You can believe that BB10 was too different from BBOS and that everyone just sat around waiting for BlackBerry to come out with the Classic if you want. Maybe you'll be right. All I know is Apple said they were #1 in business and BlackBerry didn't FactCheck them. And so far I don't see an indication that there really is much of a niche out there. And I doubt you can show otherwise.. other than just hope and faith. But as I said, it's just a guess.... over then next six months we will see.

About the link you shared I think we both understand it just represents sales right? Beyond that, what does that really mean? When I look at mobile revenue generation, BB is either 3x or 5x more than WP. All the while WP is outselling BB by 2x or 3x.

I want to see what % of those sales actually lead to market gains by the OS. My guess is that BB and Apple actually have a higher % of gains in relation to their respective sales. Just a theory really and I need to do more research.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

About the link you shared I think we both understand it just represents sales right? Beyond that, what does that really mean? When I look at mobile revenue generation, BB is either 3x or 5x more than WP. All the while WP is outselling BB by 2x or 3x.

I want to see what % of those sales actually lead to market gains by the OS. My guess is that BB and Apple actually have a higher % of gains in relation to their respective sales. Just a theory really and I need to do more research.

Are you talking about profit on sales of device?

If so, then yes I think BlackBerry is initially trying to sell their devices at a higher margin than most of the Windows Mobile Device manufactures. But I think Windows strategy is to build the userbase... which would lead to building the platform.

Microsoft simply has more money to throw at their mobile platform than BlackBerry does... but so far it really hasn't helped them all that much. As for Apple.... well there is no doubt that they are the king of profit.

Yes the link is only for current sales... for BlackBerry profits you have to look at their financial statements to get an idea of the amount of profit they are making (with hardware / services / software). Profit wise they are doing good... it just that the company is still shrinking which put a lot of pressure on keeping the cost of operation down.

[birdman_38]

There is No App Gap on BB10, it runs both Android and BB10 apps very well.

Ah...so that's why half of the Android apps I installed on my Passport (from Amazon and 1Mobile) refuse to start. Thanks for the reassurance.

[Shanerredflag]

Ah...so that's why half of the Android apps I installed on my Passport (from Amazon and 1Mobile) refuse to start. Thanks for the reassurance.

Gets better with the next update push...I'm on 10.3.1.1450 and have noticed a marked improvement.

Classically Posted.

[Toodeurep]

***snip***.

No, I mean...

Android sells 100,000 phones and grows X new customers.
Apple sells 100,000 phones and grows X new customers.
BlackBerry sells 100,000 phones and grows X new customers.
Windows Phone sells 100,000 phones and grows X new customers.

Take my brother-in-law, he buys every new iPhone. He then gives his older iPhone to his wife she takes her old one and keeps it in a drawer as a keepsake. That sell does not equate to an increase in market share.

Looking a WP, the are outselling BB by 2 or 3 times but BB is apparently kicking WP rear in mobile revenue. So I wonder, do all those WP devices go in a drawer like mine did after the fun wore off.

What I what to see is market share not from sales, but from users. This mobile revenue figure has to have something to explain it...

[eyesopen1111]

No, I mean...

Android sells 100,000 phones and grows X new customers.
Apple sells 100,000 phones and grows X new customers.
BlackBerry sells 100,000 phones and grows X new customers.
Windows Phone sells 100,000 phones and grows X new customers.

Take my brother-in-law, he buys every new iPhone. He then gives his older iPhone to his wife she takes her old one and keeps it in a drawer as a keepsake. That sell does not equate to an increase in market share.

Looking a WP, the are outselling BB by 2 or 3 times but BB is apparently kicking WP rear in mobile revenue. So I wonder, do all those WP devices go in a drawer like mine did after the fun wore off.

What I what to see is market share not from sales, but from users. This mobile revenue figure has to have something to explain it...

This is a great question. User base numbers can be hard to find, and now that some people carry more than one smartphone, the numbers may get a little funny.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

No, I mean...

Android sells 100,000 phones and grows X new customers.
Apple sells 100,000 phones and grows X new customers.
BlackBerry sells 100,000 phones and grows X new customers.
Windows Phone sells 100,000 phones and grows X new customers.

Take my brother-in-law, he buys every new iPhone. He then gives his older iPhone to his wife she takes her old one and keeps it in a drawer as a keepsake. That sell does not equate to an increase in market share.

Looking a WP, the are outselling BB by 2 or 3 times but BB is apparently kicking WP rear in mobile revenue. So I wonder, do all those WP devices go in a drawer like mine did after the fun wore off.

What I what to see is market share not from sales, but from users. This mobile revenue figure has to have something to explain it...

I think we would all love to hear from BlackBerry on the userbase issue.... (think they were asked at the last stockholder meeting, but didn't reply).

I do think that in may markets that BlackBerries have enjoy a very long life.... if a user upgraded they either sell or they give it to a family member. BBOS devices were back in the day always highly sought after on ebay and other markets. BIS made the operating cost of owning a smartphone cheaper, and allowed BlackBerry to continue to make money on devices that were 4, 5 or 6+ years old. But as those markets have matured and carriers have upgraded equipment... BIS has become less important - some markets are even reporting that carriers are now charging more for BIS plans.

You also have to figure in how many users have multiple devices... many here even own multiple version (colors) of the same device. So there really is no way to know what the install base for say BB10 is today.

But the simple truth is that marketshare based on sales are an indicator of where the over all install userbase is headed. And while BlackBerry MIGHT be making more profits (between write-offs and sales I'm not so sure), that is a short term win if they can't carve out a large enough userbase to make staying in hardware an option. Only selling 8 Million devices a year is going to give you a pretty small install base.

[EchoTango]

I guess the answer to the original question is, no one really knows how the new devices are fairing. We've seen the reviews and for the most part, they are positive. We've also seen the analyst's quarterly predictions and while always a mixed bag, still mildly positive.

I suppose we should be thankful they're still around, but I just wish we could get more performance indications in between earnings reports, especially at this critical time in the recovery plan.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

I guess the answer to the original question is, no one really knows how the new devices are fairing. We've seen the reviews and for the most part, they are positive. We've also seen the analyst's quarterly predictions and while always a mixed bag, still mildly positive.

I suppose we should be thankful they're still around, but I just wish we could get more performance indications in between earnings reports, especially at this critical time in the recovery plan.

I'm afraid we will probably have to wait until June to really know how sales are going.... Maybe the March earnings report will give us an indication of how sales have been in the areas where it has been available, but I think most are thinking that for the Classic the US enterprise market is what will drive sales. I'm sure Chen will say "something" about Classic sales at MWC next month... for what it will be worth.

[spiller]

I'm not on the FUD side but Chen did make minor mistakes:

We are pulling out / not concentrating on consumer market (changed this message a week later to say they are targeting prosumers)

We will not make handsets if we can't make money (this was twisted by media to say they were going to stop making phones, but it could have been better said).

Minor quibbles vs all the awesome stuff he has done and is doing!

Posted via CB10