04-07-15 10:46 AM
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  1. Witmen's Avatar
    Okay let me rephrase that again.

    The BlackBerry10 OS has a minimum requirement for hardware a little higher than that of say, Android. Android may be able to run well on crappier phone hardware, but the applications themselves don't run that well.

    Take my girlfriends phone for example, the Moto G, running Lollipop. She absolutely hates the phone because any time she tries to install anything or use a resource intensive app, it freezes up and takes about a half hour to load/download & update. That's very similar to the specs you just referenced.

    Now my original point, was if you take a BlackBerry10 phone's hardware, and compare it with an Android phone of equivalent, you will see a noticeable difference in performance, especially when multitasking (something I do 90% of the time). Same goes for iPhone.

    Praise be unto our Lord, Squircle | Passport SQW100-1/10.3.1.2558
    I get that your trying to make a point that Android isn't as efficent as BB10 is, but as I said - 5 year old Android phones can run Android 5.0. Back in 2010, there wasn't a single mobile device on this planet that was powerful enough to run the resource hog that is BB10. The technology didn't exist yet. So I still don't see how you could consider BB10 more efficent than Android. Of course, those are cold hard, undeniable facts. Better to use your anecdotal evidence and your opinions to try to make a point right?

    Like how your girlfriend happens to have a Moto G that lags and freezes when downloading and installing updates. I'm honestly not sure what you mean by that, but all four of my children have Moto Gs. All four are of them are on Lolipop and all four of my kids absolutely love the phone. They don't lag, they don't freeze. They run resource intensive apps and games very well. The only complaints I've ever heard from them is the older two kids wish that the screen size was bigger. Maybe your girlfriend got a lemon or my household just got lucky four times in a row, but the Moto Gs I bought them have been fantastic. Especially for the price I paid for them.

    After comparing my Z10 with my Nexus 4 (the closest thing to a Z10 that I own in Android), I certainly don't see a noticeable improvement in performance on the Z10. Maybe I would notice a difference if I could find a Android device that actually has 2GB of RAM while at the same time having a old Snapdragon dual-core. But I don't know of any Android devices with such a weird hardware combonation. Android doesn't require a insane amount of RAM just to function so there wasn't the need. Making it very hard to compare the two directly and fairly.
    techvisor likes this.
    03-19-15 10:43 AM
  2. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    That right there is one of the main reasons I haven't bought a Classic or Passport by now. Chen likes to say that he is commited to hardware, but all of his actions clearly scream out that he couldn't care less about BB10's survival. If he does want to turn BB10 into a success, he has a very strange way of showing it.

    If the Classic and Passport had an unlockable bootloader, I'd own one of them. That way I wouldn't be stuck depending on BlackBerry for software.
    I'm tempted to get a Passport as well, but I am holding off for the same reasons. Chen needs to figure it out quick. He's either in HW or out. But this one foot in, one foot out is only hurting the company.
    kbz1960, Witmen and ljfong like this.
    03-19-15 10:46 AM
  3. Wwhite1036's Avatar
    got it in my inbox
    Passport and Classic are not selling well-capture.jpg
    03-19-15 11:01 AM
  4. Irish Blues's Avatar
    MS is referring to the sales of AT@T Passport and classic.Keep in mind that they have only been on sale for 20 days, and most of AT@T stores didn't have stock. Also keep in mind that the article is misleading because they make it sound like the total sales of Passports and Classic was 8000 which is totally false. They also released this news during the quiet period before that ER, which was totally sleazy, because John Chen cannot reply or refute that story. After the ER is over expect BlackBerry to sue MS for that sleazy BS article. One last note there is no way MS has access to sales info. carriers are prohibited from disclosing this info. So this is just a lame guess as too the sales, or maybe just a misleading article to make BlackBerry stock take a hit.
    This. AT&T didn't start selling the Passport and Classic until 2/26; Verizon didn't start selling the Classic until 2/28. (I thought MS's report was on both AT&T and Verizon; if it's only applicable to AT&T, mentally amend the rest of my comment accordingly.) This report came out on 3/17, so you can bet MS "compiled data" as of some point before that. Let's say it attempted to derive an estimate based on sales as of 3/10.

    1. That means MS is talking about AT&T sales for about 12 days, and Verizon sales for about 10.
    2. That also means sales from AT&T contributed ... three (3) days to the just-ended quarter. Verizon's sales contributed one (1) day. In other words, it's largely negligible.
    3. Look around here, you'll see that there's numerous comments about both either having limited/no inventory and/or salespeople who have limited/no information on the existence of the Classic and Passport. That alone will impact sales.
    4. You can almost assuredly bet that MS didn't get overall sales figures from both companies; it got some sample and tried to extrapolate. If the sample(s) it chose is (are) not representative of what's really going on, any estimate derived from it is woefully inaccurate. (And yes, I'd say the same thing if MS announced that 200K phones had been sold in X days by retailers.)
    5. A slew of Passports were bought directly from BBRY unlocked. That surely impacts how much demand there will be for the Passport from AT&T (where it will be locked to the network). No idea what sales are for the Classic (and it won't contribute much to the quarter), but again - those who wanted one had about 10 days to get it directly and unlocked and not wait for it to show up elsewhere ... and every one sold that way is one that wasn't sold through network retailers.

    Bottom line: I wouldn't pin any kind of accuracy on this report - especially after Detweiler Fenton's claim in 2013 about BB10 returns exceeding sales (and finding out how it got that information when criminal charges were filed).
    03-19-15 11:19 AM
  5. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    A few posts up someone posted the actual article that MS supposedly got their info from. They sold 7,915 (Thousands of Units). Meaning 7.9M units.
    No, a few posts up, someone posted an article that they thought MS supposedly got their info from, because he clearly didn't read MS's actual analysis. The 7.915M is the total global phones BB sold in fiscal 2014, but that has nothing to do with the MS article, which specifically stated that their numbers were an estimate based on channel checks of the launch of the Classic and Passport on AT&T and Verizon (both of which happened in fiscal 2015).

    In other words, MS's 8,000 number is what they estimate AT&T and Verizon to have sold at retail as of 2 weeks after the launch. It has nothing to do with total global sales of the PP or Classic, just the sales made to US consumers from these retail stores.

    I'm not sure why there is so many problems with reading comprehension here - maybe seeing a number that some folks didn't like made them unable to process the rest of the article? But anyway, if you actually read the article, the source of the numbers is quite clear.
    anon1727506 likes this.
    03-19-15 11:26 AM
  6. D3C0D3R's Avatar
    I get that your trying to make a point that Android isn't as efficent as BB10 is, but as I said - 5 year old Android phones can run Android 5.0. Back in 2010, there wasn't a single mobile device on this planet that was powerful enough to run the resource hog that is BB10. The technology didn't exist yet. So I still don't see how you could consider BB10 more efficent than Android. Of course, those are cold hard, undeniable facts. Better to use your anecdotal evidence and your opinions to try to make a point right?

    Like how your girlfriend happens to have a Moto G that lags and freezes when downloading and installing updates. I'm honestly not sure what you mean by that, but all four of my children have Moto Gs. All four are of them are on Lolipop and all four of my kids absolutely love the phone. They don't lag, they don't freeze. They run resource intensive apps and games very well. The only complaints I've ever heard from them is the older two kids wish that the screen size was bigger. Maybe your girlfriend got a lemon or my household just got lucky four times in a row, but the Moto Gs I bought them have been fantastic. Especially for the price I paid for them.

    After comparing my Z10 with my Nexus 4 (the closest thing to a Z10 that I own in Android), I certainly don't see a noticeable improvement in performance on the Z10. Maybe I would notice a difference if I could find a Android device that actually has 2GB of RAM while at the same time having a old Snapdragon dual-core. But I don't know of any Android devices with such a weird hardware combonation. Android doesn't require a insane amount of RAM just to function so there wasn't the need. Making it very hard to compare the two directly and fairly.
    I'll agree with you, it's very hard to compare the two directly. I think it's because Android makes use of available Flash memory as well as RAM, and the fact it has such a small amount of internal storage with no microSD option definitely affects the results.

    Hers is as full as can be save ~50MB, and she barely has any music or photos on it.

    And I'm not just using my opinion parsay, I'm using what I've found from experience amongst all of my friends devices over the years vs my phones.

    I won't lie, the BlackBerry10 experience on the Z10 is very limited compared to that of the Passport in terms of performance, but even then the Z10 still rolls pretty well.

    No, a few posts up, someone posted an article that they thought MS supposedly got their info from, because he clearly didn't read MS's actual analysis. The 7.915M is the total global phones BB sold in fiscal 2014, but that has nothing to do with the MS article, which specifically stated that their numbers were an estimate based on channel checks of the launch of the Classic and Passport on AT&T and Verizon (both of which happened in fiscal 2015).

    In other words, MS's 8,000 number is what they estimate AT&T and Verizon to have sold at retail as of 2 weeks after the launch. It has nothing to do with total global sales of the PP or Classic, just the sales made to US consumers from these retail stores.

    I'm not sure why there is so many problems with reading comprehension here - maybe seeing a number that some folks didn't like made them unable to process the rest of the article? But anyway, if you actually read the article, the source of the numbers is quite clear.
    Ah, got bored when I was reading the MS article because so much of it was bull****. You know? You can just only take so much of that crap.

    Gotcha though, so their article is intentionally slandering BlackBerry about sales through two small channels that have only been available for a very little amount of time. . .

    Praise be unto our Lord, Squircle | Passport SQW100-1/10.3.1.2558
    03-19-15 11:40 AM
  7. Brai7's Avatar
    This is a really stupid article!
    Of course MS probably didn't care about the "credible information" they can just play dumb that was we "were" told!
    03-19-15 11:53 AM
  8. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Gotcha though, so their article is intentionally slandering BlackBerry about sales through two small channels that have only been available for a very little amount of time. . .
    MS's article was about the domestic retail launch of the PP and Classic, so... it was about the domestic retail launch of the PP and Classic. It didn't pretend to be anything else. It just pointed out that the domestic retail launch of the PP and Classic didn't exactly move a ton of handsets, and that BB can't expect a whole lot of traction just because they launched at AT&T and Verizon.

    Some here have assumed that as soon as these phones were available at carrier stores, they would start flying off the shelves...
    03-19-15 12:00 PM
  9. anon(5061193)'s Avatar
    I heard a GREAT review of the Classic the other day... The reviewer stated that if you are going to compare the specs and flash of a Galaxy Note or Iphone the Classic will lose every time. You have to focus on the productivity of the Classic or Passport.. not as an alternative to the flashy Flagships out there?
    03-19-15 12:30 PM
  10. Wmsi's Avatar
    LOL. well they do.
    Who? Selfridges maybe, ....and that's it on the high street.
    03-19-15 12:52 PM
  11. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    Some here have assumed that as soon as these phones were available at carrier stores, they would start flying off the shelves...
    Who? I come here everyday and have not read one such proclamation. If anything, it is you that makes folks on this forum out to be bigger fanboys than they really are. Most of the folks here are very realistic about BlackBerry's sales potential (or lack thereof) in the US.
    Shanerredflag and Toodeurep like this.
    03-19-15 01:24 PM
  12. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    The item this is based on is EXTREMELY short on context. Digital Trends is quoting a piece from Phone Arena that in turn quotes a quick post on Benzinga.com. The BZ post cites "research and conversations", but says nothing really about what that 8,000 sales number is based on.

    To be clear, I'm not suggesting this is some kind of "media conspiracy". I think it's a lazy (and perhaps inexperienced) analyst who unwittingly cited a provocative number and a couple of bloggers who should have known better picked up on the obvious clickbait.
    sentimentGX4, D3C0D3R and pkcable like this.
    03-19-15 01:31 PM
  13. grover5's Avatar
    I get that your trying to make a point that Android isn't as efficent as BB10 is, but as I said - 5 year old Android phones can run Android 5.0. Back in 2010, there wasn't a single mobile device on this planet that was powerful enough to run the resource hog that is BB10. The technology didn't exist yet. So I still don't see how you could consider BB10 more efficent than Android. Of course, those are cold hard, undeniable facts. Better to use your anecdotal evidence and your opinions to try to make a point right?

    Like how your girlfriend happens to have a Moto G that lags and freezes when downloading and installing updates. I'm honestly not sure what you mean by that, but all four of my children have Moto Gs. All four are of them are on Lolipop and all four of my kids absolutely love the phone. They don't lag, they don't freeze. They run resource intensive apps and games very well. The only complaints I've ever heard from them is the older two kids wish that the screen size was bigger. Maybe your girlfriend got a lemon or my household just got lucky four times in a row, but the Moto Gs I bought them have been fantastic. Especially for the price I paid for them.

    After comparing my Z10 with my Nexus 4 (the closest thing to a Z10 that I own in Android), I certainly don't see a noticeable improvement in performance on the Z10. Maybe I would notice a difference if I could find a Android device that actually has 2GB of RAM while at the same time having a old Snapdragon dual-core. But I don't know of any Android devices with such a weird hardware combonation. Android doesn't require a insane amount of RAM just to function so there wasn't the need. Making it very hard to compare the two directly and fairly.
    How well does the nexus s run with lollipop?

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    03-19-15 01:33 PM
  14. cathulu15's Avatar
    Well I be ready for poor US sales, not surprising given the rollout so far. Anything better than 8000 is good to me...

    Posted via CB10
    03-19-15 11:26 PM
  15. higherdestiny's Avatar
    "Two days after the BlackBerry Passport launched, the business oriented handset was sold out. The number of units sold was 200,000 as BlackBerry played things conservatively in the face of the recent launch of both the Apple iPhone 6 and Apple iPhone 6 Plus."

    Source: BlackBerry once again is sold out of the BlackBerry Passport

    Also: http://www.cnet.com/au/news/blackber...-since-launch/
    03-19-15 11:48 PM
  16. heading4tomorrow's Avatar
    Drop classic to $249.99, and we will all buy them. It will then sell well, very well!
    I just can't take a chance and leave my perfectly running Z30 and spend $450+tax. No way, nobody will unless they really hate their all touch keyboard.

    This is the problem with Classic.
    People who have Q10 don't see the benefit of spending so much for something with same (almost same) hardware.
    People who have other blackberry are just fine with the one they have since it's most likely Z10 or Z30.
    People who don't have a Blackberry cannot just spend that kind of money while they can get something more hip and fun and trendy like Galaxy S5 or iPhone or something so they stay with the platform they are in.

    This is why PP and Classic is not selling well, and it's really easy to see.
    I wish they had a poll with every purchase, they could see their market share and do a much better marketing at BB (there is almost no marketing other than Chen showing up on news channels and make random statements instead of showing how great BB10 is)
    Magnetox likes this.
    03-20-15 12:00 AM
  17. Nicholas Kathrein's Avatar
    Release date. Dec 16, 2010 for the nexus S.
    RIM BlackBerry Torch 9800 Release Date August 12, 2010

    How BB10.3 run on a torch 9800?
    Witmen and JeepBB like this.
    03-20-15 12:08 AM
  18. markmall's Avatar
    Maybe it's too late, but they really needed a marketing strategy. I mean, how many times can you make the same mistake? One superbowl ad, and that was it. There are so many ways to advertise now other than expensive TV or print. It seems they did not do anything.

    The Passport and more the Z30 are great phones that could have sold with the right strategy.
    crackberry_geek likes this.
    03-20-15 02:23 AM
  19. yessuz's Avatar
    Who? Selfridges maybe, ....and that's it on the high street.
    Vodafone shop
    03-20-15 04:02 AM
  20. anon(5061193)'s Avatar
    I think that you have to define selling well.. comparing it to the iPhone should not be the benchmark.

    Posted via CB10
    03-20-15 06:14 AM
  21. Shanerredflag's Avatar
    All this BlackBerry hate...there are bigger issues people:


    Classically Posted.
    03-20-15 07:26 AM
  22. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    I'm tempted to get a Passport as well, but I am holding off for the same reasons. Chen needs to figure it out quick. He's either in HW or out. But this one foot in, one foot out is only hurting the company.
    Sorry - don't agree. Companies can - and do - focus on multiple initiatives. Even ones a lot smaller than BlackBerry make hardware and software.

    If he can get the hardware business profitable, why not keep it going?

    No need for such a binary approach of "all or nothing".
    D3C0D3R likes this.
    03-20-15 10:12 AM
  23. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    Drop classic to $249.99, and we will all buy them.
    What if the classic costs $275 to build? Should it be $250 then? BlackBerry sold a lot of Z10s compared to other BlackBerry 10 phones too ... and incurred massive losses as a result.
    03-20-15 10:15 AM
  24. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    The item this is based on is EXTREMELY short on context. Digital Trends is quoting a piece from Phone Arena that in turn quotes a quick post on Benzinga.com. The BZ post cites "research and conversations", but says nothing really about what that 8,000 sales number is based on.

    To be clear, I'm not suggesting this is some kind of "media conspiracy". I think it's a lazy (and perhaps inexperienced) analyst who unwittingly cited a provocative number and a couple of bloggers who should have known better picked up on the obvious clickbait.
    This! I find this happens a lot with BlackBerry. I don't mind when bad news is reported if it's reported correctly. But honestly, there's a lot of really crappy fact checking where BlackBerry is concerned ... and others too.

    I once remember a reporter on CNET snickering about BlackBerry's "marketshare" and yet he clearly had no clue what marketshare was because he cited a source on US web traffic as proof of global marketshare.

    You can tell this is especially bad reporting because even many of the really well-known anti-BlackBerry sites like the Verge, BGR and Techcrunch seem to be avoiding it.
    03-20-15 10:17 AM
  25. birdman_38's Avatar
    If he can get the hardware business profitable, why not keep it going?
    Consistently profitable. It seems like he's rolling a boulder uphill right now.
    03-20-15 10:20 AM
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