09-25-13 09:33 AM
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  1. mset's Avatar
    This isn't going to win me any friends in the CB executive office, but I couldn't let it go.

    Kevin made a post here detailing a letter he got from a user wondering if he should stick with Blackberry. Nwadike in Jamaica says that he is on a budget and can maybe afford a 9900, and that he doesn't use many apps. He uses his phone for connectivity - calls, email, Facebook, and maybe navigation.

    Kevin forwarded the question on to a contact at BBRY, who responded to Nwadike in the following way

    "[Thorsten] stated last week that such changes are designed to give BlackBerry more focus on delivering mobile computing technology to enterprise and “prosumer” customers – those who value technology purpose-built for enhancing productivity – and which based on the way you described yourself would include you".

    So now we know what a prosumer is. It's someone on a budget who has explicitly stated that he uses his phone for calls, email and to check Facebook.

    It's a measure of the turmoil in Waterloo that this type of communication could go out.
    Donvald likes this.
    09-24-13 10:56 AM
  2. grover5's Avatar
    This isn't going to win me any friends in the CB executive office, but I couldn't let it go.

    Kevin made a post here detailing a letter he got from a user wondering if he should stick with Blackberry. Nwadike in Jamaica says that he is on a budget and can maybe afford a 9900, and that he doesn't use many apps. He uses his phone for connectivity - calls, email, Facebook, and maybe navigation.

    Kevin forwarded the question on to a contact at BBRY, who responded in the following way

    "[Thorsten] stated last week that such changes are designed to give BlackBerry more focus on delivering mobile computing technology to enterprise and prosumer customers those who value technology purpose-built for enhancing productivity and which based on the way you described yourself would include you".

    So now we know what a prosumer is. It's someone on a budget who has explicitly stated that he uses his phone for calls, email and to check Facebook.

    It's a measure of the turmoil in Waterloo that this type of communication could go out.
    Because it might include that person does not mean it is only meant for that person. I swear, the drama queens are running around these forums in full force.

    Posted via CB10
    09-24-13 10:58 AM
  3. mset's Avatar
    Because it might include that person does not mean it is only meant for that person. I swear, the drama queens are running around these forums in full force.
    You seem to have misunderstood the post. Maybe I should have been clearer. I'm not saying the BBRY rep was implying that only people like Nwadike are prosumers. I am saying that Nwadike is clearly not a prosumer.
    Donvald and R_from_Toronto like this.
    09-24-13 11:05 AM
  4. grover5's Avatar
    You seem to have misunderstood the post. Maybe I should have been clearer. I'm not saying the BBRY rep was implying that only people like Nwadike are prosumers. I am saying that Nwadike is clearly not a prosumer.
    He uses his phone to stay connected and for communication. The only apps he needs are for staying connected and communicating on social networks so he has no need for an app ecosystem with the latest and greatest fads. He is sitting squarely in the BlackBerry wheelhouse.

    Posted via CB10
    playbookster likes this.
    09-24-13 11:11 AM
  5. mset's Avatar
    He uses his phone to stay connected and for communication. The only apps he needs are for staying connected and communicating on social networks so he has no need for an app ecosystem with the latest and greatest fads. He is sitting squarely in the BlackBerry wheelhouse.
    Nope, he's sitting squarely in what used to be the Blackberry wheelhouse. Last Friday, BBRY announced that they were leaving that market behind (the consumer market, and this guy is the poster-boy for the consumer market; someone who just wants to use his mid-priced phone for calls, email and to occasionally check FB or use a map or get the phone number to a restaurant off the web).

    BBRY stated that they were no longer going after that market. And this guy is anything but a Prosumer.
    Donvald likes this.
    09-24-13 11:15 AM
  6. grover5's Avatar
    Nope, he's sitting squarely in what used to be the Blackberry wheelhouse. Last Friday, BBRY announced that they were leaving that market behind (the consumer market, and this guy is the poster-boy for the consumer market; someone who just wants to use his mid-priced phone for calls, email and to occasionally check FB or use a map or get the phone number to a restaurant off the web).

    BBRY stated that they were no longer going after that market. And this guy is anything but a Prosumer.
    I disagree. I think you're confused. You have no idea what his communications are for. You just spun it for the drama.

    Posted via CB10
    theotherjoeboy likes this.
    09-24-13 11:28 AM
  7. mset's Avatar
    I disagree. I think you're confused. You have no idea what his communications are for. You just spun it for the drama.
    No, I think that describing as a Prosumer a user who states that he uses his phone for calls, email and occasional FB is so absurd that it shows there's no quality control in the BBRY PR department. I also think it's a bit odd that is would get posted as a positive spin article by the CB brain trust.

    BBRY recently announced that they are out of the consumer handset business. If you had to define the typical consumer handset user, it would be this guy. Therefore, he is the exact opposite of a Prosumer. He is the exact guy that BBRY said they would no longer be going after.
    09-24-13 11:34 AM
  8. grover5's Avatar
    No, I think that describing as a Prosumer a user who states that he uses his phone for calls, email and occasional FB is so absurd that it shows there's no quality control in the BBRY PR department and that the company is in turmoil. I also think it's a bit odd that is would get posted as a positive spin article by the CB brain trust.

    BBRY recently announced that they are out of the consumer handset business. If you had to define the typical consumer handset user, it would be this guy. Therefore, he is the exact opposite of a Prosumer. He is the exact guy that BBRY said they would no longer be going after.
    I could restate what you quoted since your long winded response didn't address it. But this conversation is pointless. You're locked in for the drama and the hysteria. I'll leave you to it.

    Posted via CB10
    09-24-13 11:39 AM
  9. mset's Avatar
    I could restate what you quoted since your long winded response didn't address it. But this conversation is pointless. You're locked in for the drama and the hysteria. I'll leave you to it.
    Well, you know what they say.

    Ad hominem is the last refuge of the congenitally weak-minded.

    If you can actually address any of the points in the post as opposed to screaming that I'm a drama queen (which actually makes you a bit of a drama queen) please feel free to post here. Just FYI, "I disagree, I think you're confused, this conversation is pointless" which was all you could come up with above, isn't a response, it's an internet cop-out.
    Donvald likes this.
    09-24-13 11:42 AM
  10. grover5's Avatar
    Well, you know what they say.

    Ad hominem is the last refuge of the congenitally weak-minded.

    If you can actually address any of the points in the post as opposed to screaming that I'm a drama queen (which actually makes you a bit of a drama queen) please feel free to post here.
    I did. You have no idea what his communications are for. You can't begin to determine his "prosumer" status without that information. Furthermore you seem to feel the BlackBerry employee should have steered him away from buying a 9900. It's all too silly really.

    Posted via CB10
    09-24-13 11:48 AM
  11. mset's Avatar
    you seem to feel the BlackBerry employee should have steered him away from buying a 9900.
    Aha! Thanks for being honest (finally).

    Of course we can determine his Prosumer status by reading what he says about the way he uses his handheld device!! Did you even bother to read what he said? Obviously not, because if you had, you would know that he is the poster boy for the consumer handheld market - on a budget, needs his phone for calls, email and the occasional FB/twitter.

    We already know about his communications. He has told us specifically what he does. He's a consumer, not a Prosumer.

    I suggest you stick to screaming 'Drama Queen!! Drama Queen!!' Debating the issues isn't going too well for you.
    Donvald likes this.
    09-24-13 11:53 AM
  12. grover5's Avatar
    Aha! Thanks for being honest (finally).

    Of course we can determine his Prosumer status by reading what he says about the way he uses his handheld device!! Did you even bother to read what he said? Obviously not, because if you had, you would know that he is the poster boy for the consumer handheld market - on a budget, needs his phone for calls, email and the occasional FB/twitter.

    We already know about his communications. He has told us specifically what he does. He's a consumer, not a Prosumer.

    I suggest you stick to screaming 'Drama Queen!! Drama Queen!!' Debating the issues isn't going too well for you.
    No he didn't. And all I did was repeat what I've been saying from the start. This is beyond bizarre.

    Posted via CB10
    09-24-13 11:56 AM
  13. mset's Avatar
    No he didn't. And all I did was repeat what I've been saying from the start.
    Yes he did. He stated explicitly what type of communications he needs. They define him as a consumer user, and his being on a limited budget defines him as absolutely, unequivocally not a Prosumer.
    Donvald and Icarus3000 like this.
    09-24-13 11:59 AM
  14. grover5's Avatar
    Yes he did. He stated explicitly what type of communications he needs. They define him as a consumer user, and his being on a limited budget defines him as absolutely, unequivocally not a Prosumer.
    Why would a prosumer never be on a budget? He didn't state what his communications were for. We don't know if he is communicating for work or not.

    Posted via CB10
    09-24-13 12:00 PM
  15. mset's Avatar
    Why would a prosumer never be on a budget?
    Nice to see you've calmed down enough to ask a relevant question in a polite manner instead of calling names like an 8 year-old.

    By definition, "enterprise and Prosumer" users are those from whom the firm can make higher margins. They are users who are not constrained by budget. If you had responded more politely to start with, I'd be happy to explain further. Since you're a boor, I'm not going to bother. Please, for heaven's sake, before you just post and say 'you're wrong', find out what the term 'enterprise user' means vis-a-vis gear.
    Donvald likes this.
    09-24-13 12:05 PM
  16. felixweber's Avatar
    09-24-13 12:09 PM
  17. grover5's Avatar
    Nice to see you've calmed down enough to ask a relevant question in a polite manner instead of calling names like an 8 year-old.

    By definition, "enterprise and Prosumer" users are those from whom the firm can make higher margins. They are users who are not constrained by budget. If you had responded more politely to start with, I'd be happy to explain further. Since you're a boor, I'm not going to bother. Please, for heaven's sake, before you just post and say 'you're wrong', find out what the term 'enterprise user' means vis-a-vis gear.
    Sorry. You're still wrong. Like I said, we don't know what he uses his device for. And given he can afford a 9900 then he must be able to make the margins BlackBerry cares about with the 9900. Thanks for calling me names though. It was a nice touch.

    Posted via CB10
    09-24-13 12:09 PM
  18. waterfrontmgmt's Avatar
    this is a silly argument. lots of "consumers" use "prosumer" phones. The 9900 and Q10 could be considered "prosumer", but are also great phones for anyone.
    09-24-13 12:13 PM
  19. mangelok's Avatar
    According to Kevin, prosumer is defined as: "those who value technology purpose-built for enhancing productivity"
    Now, we should define what activities are included in the definition of productive for a smartphone: apps that help you succeed in some business (whether it be your career or otherwise)

    Therefore, maps, calls, emails, organization apps would be included. Technically, I don`t think social media would be included (with the exception of LinkedIn) but they already made those apps so I doubt they will pull them now. Also, in general, I think this is just a way for BlackBerry to market themselves as differentiated from others so I don`t think it really means anything.. but anyway.

    mset, I understand why you think Nwadike is not a prosumer: his activities would also be covered under the definition of consumer - but I believe the areas overlap instead of being mutually exclusive.
    09-24-13 12:15 PM
  20. grover5's Avatar
    this is a silly argument. lots of "consumers" use "prosumer" phones. The 9900 and Q10 could be considered "prosumer", but are also great phones for anyone.
    I couldn't agree more. I should have left the original post alone. It was so strange that I had to respond. I'm regretting it.

    Posted via CB10
    09-24-13 12:16 PM
  21. mset's Avatar
    Sorry. You're still wrong. Like I said, we don't know what he uses his device for. And given he can afford a 9900 then he must be able to make the margins BlackBerry cares about with the 9900. Thanks for calling me names though. It was a nice touch.
    We know exactly what he uses his device for. He told us specifically. He's the definition of a consumer user, and that's the market BBRY has said it will leave behind.

    Given the fact that you resorted to name calling in your first post, and then accuse me of doing what you're actually doing, I assume you have some sort of cognitive deficit. Hopefully things are going okay for you.
    09-24-13 12:16 PM
  22. Kendall Oei's Avatar
    Let's face it, the term Prosumer applies to most, if not all, Crackberry readers and to most BB10 users. Most of us did not buy BB10 devices because BBRY did a good job of marketing to the consumer market. They did not do a good job of marketing to the consumer market. Most of us bought BB10 because we value what the technology does. If this is true for you, then Congratulations! You are a Prosumer.
    So what's really changing? Not so much. In my mind, BBRY is going to stop trying to sell to the typical consumer. Can consumers still buy BB10 devices? Yes. And they will probably be classified as Prosumers if they do. Most of the real Consumers consumed the market message that BBRY is not as good as an iPhone or Android and were going to stay away anyway.
    What will BBRY lose? Market pressures from share holders and developers. I don't expect this to help increase the number of available apps, but that's not a big deal for me.
    So who here does not see themself as a Prosumer (aside from the Trolls)?
    theotherjoeboy likes this.
    09-24-13 12:16 PM
  23. PP_Bone's Avatar
    This guy is definitely not the "average" consumer; he's not a stupid app-loving media glutton. He's more on the prosumer side because he uses his BlackBerry for efficient communication.
    09-24-13 12:20 PM
  24. grover5's Avatar
    We know exactly what he uses his device for. He told us specifically. He's the definition of a consumer user, and that's the market BBRY has said it will leave behind.

    Given the fact that you resorted to name calling in your first post, and then accuse me of doing what you're actually doing, I assume you have some sort of cognitive deficit. Hopefully things are going okay for you.
    Does he use it for work email and work communication? He didn't say so I'm just wondering what he told you on the side. So you are officially conceding the budget part as he can afford to buy a BlackBerry right?

    Posted via CB10
    09-24-13 12:20 PM
  25. mset's Avatar
    According to Kevin, prosumer is defined as: "those who value technology purpose-built for enhancing productivity"
    Now, we should define what activities are included in the definition of productive for a smartphone: apps that help you succeed in some business (whether it be your career or otherwise)

    Therefore, maps, calls, emails, organization apps would be included. Technically, I don`t think social media would be included (with the exception of LinkedIn) but they already made those apps so I doubt they will pull them now. Also, in general, I think this is just a way for BlackBerry to market themselves as differentiated from others so I don`t think it really means anything.. but anyway.

    mset, I understand why you think Nwadike is not a prosumer: his activities would also be covered under the definition of consumer - but I believe the areas overlap instead of being mutually exclusive.
    Thanks for a polite and detailed response. Others here seem to have missed their nap.

    The key phrase you used is 'succeed in business'. Firms use finely tuned language, but the bottom line is that the Prosumer is either a business user or a power user who is not constrained by budget - the early adopter who wants the cutting edge at all times. I absolutely agree that there is some overlap at the far reaches of the consumer market. My point was the Nwadike is nowhere even close.

    I also disagree strongly that this distinction they made doesn't mean anything, as you suggested. I think it means a lot. It signalled their intent (for a weekend at least) to drop the low margin consumer business and shoot for the higher margin enterprise business. That is a huge difference in a business model.

    As you correctly state, social media is not at the to of the list of things the enterprise client needs.
    Last edited by mset; 09-24-13 at 12:45 PM.
    09-24-13 12:24 PM
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