03-09-15 10:41 AM
43 12
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  1. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    Mr. BigHarv you are one of those, it seems who blames the victim...
    I wouldn't consider an investor losing money in a stock a "victim" unless there is proof that the company misrepresented itself.

    While the priority for every corporation should be increasing shareholder value, there is no implicit guarantee it will do so and it owes you nothing if its efforts fail.
    03-08-15 06:16 PM
  2. TheBigHarvCombo's Avatar
    Mr. BigHarv you are one of those, it seems who blames the victim... like for example...oh she was wearing provocative dress etc...
    No Sir, I am not ranting, I am proposing something that will unleash value for shareholders... unless you think everything is just fine and dandy?
    Firstly, your comment about blaming the victim because of what she was wearing is classless and you should ashamed and be banned from this forum.

    Secondly, I'm not blaming the victim. There are no victims on Wall Street. The stock market is a gamble. Would you feel bad for anyone that lost money gambling in Las Vegas? You thinking you are a victim shows a lot about you. I suggest you buy the book "The Intelligent Investor" by Benjamin Graham. It's a great read for new investors that don't understand how the markets work.

    Lastly, I do think everything is fine and dandy. I don't buy stocks and become a raving lunatic because it isn't doing what I expected. I started buying this stock 2 years ago because of the value I see in the IOT market and nothing else. We have had lots of down times but I don't need this money for another 20 years so I guess I can afford to be patient. I think John Chen is doing an excellent job and is sticking to the plan he set out when he took his position. I trust his judgment, his experience and his execution. If I wasn't happy with the job he was doing or began to see reasons that my original investment thesis wasn't coming to fruition I would sell my shares and move on. Which may not be a bad idea for you. The next ER isn't going to be pretty.

    Posted via CB10
    FeitaInc likes this.
    03-08-15 06:43 PM
  3. savingblackberry's Avatar
    Private investors believe they can higher valuation in public markets hence their investment.
    BBM not growing.. yes, that is exactly why it should spinoff so can focus on BBM alone and get investment to grow BBM. BBM as part of Blackberry makes no sense since devices are at 0.4% market share.
    Yes, capital needs to be assessed, get the investors and spinoff... unless they get someone like facebook (maybe Google to pay $5-6 Billion.
    BBM within larger BBRY makes absolutely no sense, BBM gets no valuation at all, cant grow, wont get needed capital to grow.
    Plus pressure on Chen to generate rev from BBM but as standalone it will all about subscriber growth metrics.

    As I said NOT spinning off BBM is almost criminally negligent or there is a MOLE inside Blackberry

    I genuinely do not think that anyone inside Blackberry, from John Chen to the board of directors, or any large institutional investors believe BBM to be worth billions of dollars as a public traded company. If any believed this to be true, Blackberry would not hesitate to spin off BBM, which is a rather periphery product, from the rest of the company. The problem with your value assessment, is that BBM is much smaller than competitors and does not appear to be growing.

    Furthermore, note that none of the competitors worth billions of dollars you named were ever a publicly traded company. The means by which they attained their valuations was that they were approached by private parties. What does this mean for BBM? It means that a private party may approach Blackberry to similarly purchase BBM for a lump sum if interested. Spinning off the company is irrelevant in unlocking value.

    More importantly, it must be understood that he market valuation dynamics of publicly traded and private companies are radically different. There is no evidence that Whatsapp would be worth $19 billion on a stock exchange and there is no guarantee that Snapchat is actually worth $20 billion. Private equity has a tendency to grossly overpay (as well as cash in on deals). Since most regard these apps to have bubblish valuations, it is likely that a public traded Snapchat would be worth a fraction of $20 billion and a public traded BBM a fraction of that.

    Finally, you must consider BBM's viability as an independent company. How much earnings and revenue does BBM have? How much will operations, R&D, etc. cost? How much seed money does it need? What resources must BBRY provide to BBM before spinning it off? What you're asking for could be a death sentence for BBM.

    All in all, I think there are too many inherent risks to spinning off BBM. If private equity firm thinks BBM is worth billions of dollars, the option is still there for them to make a offer.
    03-08-15 09:56 PM
  4. savingblackberry's Avatar
    Yes, I can give you dozens of examples:
    Jim and Mike: $35 stock price is unacceptable
    Jim and Mike: $20 stock price is not acceptable, we will increase shaareholder value
    Heins: we will sell tens of milions of Q10
    Stupid remarks from Martin , heins, Jim, Mike, Boulben...
    I can write a book on how top level people misled and made big blunders and then walked away with multimillion parachutes.
    Dear Sir, capitalism is about owners taking a shot at managers, the CEO is an agent, shareholders are owners

    I wouldn't consider an investor losing money in a stock a "victim" unless there is proof that the company misrepresented itself.

    While the priority for every corporation should be increasing shareholder value, there is no implicit guarantee it will do so and it owes you nothing if its efforts fail.
    03-08-15 10:00 PM
  5. savingblackberry's Avatar
    Your entry point is meaningless. People like you said the same thing about Heins.
    BTW Keynes said "In the long run, we are all dead"
    and in the very long run, human species will be extinct as well

    Firstly, your comment about blaming the victim because of what she was wearing is classless and you should ashamed and be banned from this forum.

    Secondly, I'm not blaming the victim. There are no victims on Wall Street. The stock market is a gamble. Would you feel bad for anyone that lost money gambling in Las Vegas? You thinking you are a victim shows a lot about you. I suggest you buy the book "The Intelligent Investor" by Benjamin Graham. It's a great read for new investors that don't understand how the markets work.

    Lastly, I do think everything is fine and dandy. I don't buy stocks and become a raving lunatic because it isn't doing what I expected. I started buying this stock 2 years ago because of the value I see in the IOT market and nothing else. We have had lots of down times but I don't need this money for another 20 years so I guess I can afford to be patient. I think John Chen is doing an excellent job and is sticking to the plan he set out when he took his position. I trust his judgment, his experience and his execution. If I wasn't happy with the job he was doing or began to see reasons that my original investment thesis wasn't coming to fruition I would sell my shares and move on. Which may not be a bad idea for you. The next ER isn't going to be pretty.

    Posted via CB10
    03-08-15 10:02 PM
  6. TheBigHarvCombo's Avatar
    Your entry point is meaningless. People like you said the same thing about Heins.
    BTW Keynes said "In the long run, we are all dead"
    and in the very long run, human species will be extinct as well
    Entry point is meaningless? Please read the book.



    Posted via CB10
    03-08-15 10:32 PM
  7. Warlack's Avatar
    Ask anyone on the street about WhatsApp, Snapchat or BBM.

    How many people, use Google+?

    BBM is the same as Google+

    It is dead.


    What Chen currently does is quite interesting:

    All inherent business requirements are slowly being sold by BlackBerry in one big bundle:

    Lync: BBM
    WebEx, GoToMeetings: BBM Meetings
    2Factor authentication: BES12
    Citrix: Blend

    We are currently in a moment of BIG changes within the IT infrastructure.

    The move into a hybrid cloud environment has already begun, paving the way towards complete cloud architecture.

    What BlackBerry is offering within the Cloud is a the possibility to create local nodes for every user, granting him access to all resources via his mobile phone (the node).

    BBM the is the communication tool of choice for anyone on BES.

    The benefit of BBM over Lync is the ability for to communicate to others outside of my company without the need to ask IT for specific to federation arrangements.

    What you fail to see is the inherent value as an Enterprise communications tool, far superior and valuable than the ordinary mainstream chat.

    If BBM would be spun off:

    It would still be seen and treated the way it is now:
    Also ran and has been.

    Why is Google shutting down Google+?
    They could have just marketed it more, spent more money on it......
    They forced every youtube user to comment via G+ and after more than a year noticed that it didn't change anything.

    BBM is dead in the public's eye and therefore will never gain a bigger valuation.

    Since the last Passport came out, there has been a positive change in perception regarding BlackBerry.
    Breaking parts off of it will be just showing weakness and create uncertainty.

    I am speaking with decisionmakers in many fortune 1000 companies on a regular basis, as I work in sales for one of them:
    Slowly I can mention BlackBerry without being laughed at........ slowly..... they still think I am kidding, but are also reading the positive headlines.....


    Posted via CB10
    03-08-15 10:49 PM
  8. anon1727506's Avatar
    Not releasing BBM crossplatform years ago was a mistake....

    Not getting all the bugs worked out of cross platform BBM before trying to release it was a mistake....

    At this point, trying to spin off BBM as a separate Public company would be a mistake... unless it is making money and able to support itself. I have no idea what the development cost for BBM are, I don't know what the operational cost and bandwidth usages for BBM are, and I have no idea how BlackBerry would license BBM from this new company or how the new company would license use of the NOC. But my biggest question would be... who is using BBM? How often do they use it?

    Most of the IM's that are making headlines are growing a exponential rates, and have active users in markets that are key to advertisers. BBM isn't growing all that fast, and isn't popular in the key markets, and very little real data is coming out about its use. So I doubt it's worth near what you might hope it is worth... So basically at this point, I don't see the point. Now five or six years ago, might have been a different story.
    03-09-15 08:35 AM
  9. savingblackberry's Avatar
    His entry point is meaningless, in the sense that it is irrelevant o how to maximize shareholder value.

    Entry point is meaningless? Please read the book.



    Posted via CB10
    03-09-15 08:45 AM
  10. savingblackberry's Avatar
    So you are saying BBM is a failure.. and whose fault is it?
    There is nothing that stips BBRY from offering BBM even if BBM spunoff, people do deals between companies
    BBM is an excellent tool only if it is exclusive focussed on, well funded and be truly independent of any BlackBerry Bias
    Google+ had no change against Facebook
    BBM can grw, needs dollars but a spart of Blackberry cannot get dollars/capital

    Oh today, Goldman Sachs one of the few big name bull/neutral now turned up against Blackberry. Chen and his team should find the mole who is working against all of us and being paid by shortsellers/competitors.

    All I dee on this forum is blind faith in BlackBerry, there is hardly anyone who is critical of anything Blackberry does, that is why no serious investor or looking for impartial view comes to CB, you cant have a productive discussion here.

    BBRY vs Apple: Apple went up by more than 200 times vs BBRY and everyone on CB things BBRY is winning.

    Today hero du jour is Chen, yesterday it was heins.



    Ask anyone on the street about WhatsApp, Snapchat or BBM.

    How many people, use Google+?

    BBM is the same as Google+

    It is dead.


    What Chen currently does is quite interesting:

    All inherent business requirements are slowly being sold by BlackBerry in one big bundle:

    Lync: BBM
    WebEx, GoToMeetings: BBM Meetings
    2Factor authentication: BES12
    Citrix: Blend

    We are currently in a moment of BIG changes within the IT infrastructure.

    The move into a hybrid cloud environment has already begun, paving the way towards complete cloud architecture.

    What BlackBerry is offering within the Cloud is a the possibility to create local nodes for every user, granting him access to all resources via his mobile phone (the node).

    BBM the is the communication tool of choice for anyone on BES.

    The benefit of BBM over Lync is the ability for to communicate to others outside of my company without the need to ask IT for specific to federation arrangements.

    What you fail to see is the inherent value as an Enterprise communications tool, far superior and valuable than the ordinary mainstream chat.

    If BBM would be spun off:

    It would still be seen and treated the way it is now:
    Also ran and has been.

    Why is Google shutting down Google+?
    They could have just marketed it more, spent more money on it......
    They forced every youtube user to comment via G+ and after more than a year noticed that it didn't change anything.

    BBM is dead in the public's eye and therefore will never gain a bigger valuation.

    Since the last Passport came out, there has been a positive change in perception regarding BlackBerry.
    Breaking parts off of it will be just showing weakness and create uncertainty.

    I am speaking with decisionmakers in many fortune 1000 companies on a regular basis, as I work in sales for one of them:
    Slowly I can mention BlackBerry without being laughed at........ slowly..... they still think I am kidding, but are also reading the positive headlines.....


    Posted via CB10
    03-09-15 08:52 AM
  11. savingblackberry's Avatar
    Whatsapp and SDnapchat is not making money.... you can take invt in BBM

    Not releasing BBM crossplatform years ago was a mistake....

    Not getting all the bugs worked out of cross platform BBM before trying to release it was a mistake....

    At this point, trying to spin off BBM as a separate Public company would be a mistake... unless it is making money and able to support itself. I have no idea what the development cost for BBM are, I don't know what the operational cost and bandwidth usages for BBM are, and I have no idea how BlackBerry would license BBM from this new company or how the new company would license use of the NOC. But my biggest question would be... who is using BBM? How often do they use it?

    Most of the IM's that are making headlines are growing a exponential rates, and have active users in markets that are key to advertisers. BBM isn't growing all that fast, and isn't popular in the key markets, and very little real data is coming out about its use. So I doubt it's worth near what you might hope it is worth... So basically at this point, I don't see the point. Now five or six years ago, might have been a different story.
    03-09-15 08:52 AM
  12. savingblackberry's Avatar
    BBRY will be better suited to have its employees compete in the market and increase shareholder value than spend time attacking a shareholder who is suggesting how to unleash value... or are all thse people just blind cult followers of anything BBRY management?
    03-09-15 08:54 AM
  13. savingblackberry's Avatar
    So many companies go bust, by spinning off BBM, BBRY is giving another option/exit to shareholders, BBM itself with enough cpaital and deal structure, right team, right strategy could be worth $30-40 a share in 3 years. BBM new company hire best from silicon valley, not cronies of the board or management.
    03-09-15 08:57 AM
  14. savingblackberry's Avatar
    What is downside here? What is the worst that ca happen (assuming reasonable care taken) and why BBM better with larger BBRY?
    I recall this is as akin to that Roger Martin ?(Harvard alum, so whats new) fellow saying we shouldnt hire kids and monkeys from outside, only promote from within... over a glass of expensive wine at a fancy restaurant in toronto (probably paid by our money)... I wrote to the management and Bpard the same day i read that piece of garbage asking them to immediately for Mr, Martin for that insane comment. It took then 18 months but they did.
    I also asked BOD to fire Heins a month after he took office as CEO for some of the comments he was making.
    They hired a guy as CEO who was in charge of Hardware that had declined.

    Time and again I have been right (like cross platform 4-5 years back when i saw iphones taking off, andorid taking off),. many other instances... and I know spinning off BBM is the rightest (is there such a word) thing to do.
    03-09-15 09:06 AM
  15. savingblackberry's Avatar
    Imagine if BBM was spunoff 4-5 years ago, probably would be worth more than whatsapp.... $35 a share on BBM alone.
    03-09-15 09:06 AM
  16. savingblackberry's Avatar
    So many companies go bust, by spinning off BBM, BBRY is giving another option/exit to shareholders, BBM itself with enough cpaital and deal structure, right team, right strategy could be worth $30-40 a share in 3 years. BBM new company hire best from silicon valley, not cronies of the board or management.
    03-09-15 09:51 AM
  17. sleepngbear's Avatar
    closed for review.
    03-09-15 10:21 AM
  18. sleepngbear's Avatar
    ... and staying closed. It's dead, Jim.
    03-09-15 10:41 AM
43 12

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