[Otech#CB]

I see BBM (obviously unique to BB) maybe for the third world. The only truly unique feature is word flipping. Hey, I've never seen anyone really efficient at the flicking relative to a good typist (and certainly doesn't do much to cater to BB's target market). Nevertheless it is a good feature that, if not used much, can be ignored. But as for the rest, they are all ostensibly available on IOS and/or Droid. Regardless, please, please x3 never mention native remote hard drive access on the BB as somehow being superior to any of the eco-systems of W8, IOS, or (albeit less) even Droid. (Frankly, this function also is one of the few that probably shouldn't be native as it will be difficult to keep up with file conventions of BB's competition.....) Listing this feature cuts deeply into the credibility of your argument. .... Back on track with the OP's title: it's all moot if there's no BB money to continue support/development and there's little consolation for shareholders if BB OS10's grandest accomplishment is to be a spot reserved in the Smithsonian.

A winner on all comments. Sometimes the same old poor logic re-appears. Thanks for setting things straight again!

The sideload is a disaster for all but some of those that have a lot of time on their hands. Notwithstanding, and even as a disproportionate number of youngsters relative to actual BB users frequent CB, the BB target market for BB has never been the tech savvy. Okay, I admit that I don't know what the target market is for BB, and neither does BB nor anyone on this site, but it surely isn't the young, tech savvy types.
Give BB reliability on the basics of communication and professed security but one can't mention sideload in the same breath .... as poster conveys, sideload will always cancel security. .... Can't have it all.... BB must focus with the remainder of its meager assets rather than assuming that it can skim 3-4% across the board of the approaching 1.5B total smart phone marketplace.

Speaking of credibility, agreeing with Garnoks' comments each time doesn't do you any justice. Doesn't everyone who buys an Android get it to install custom roms, and get amazing specs, and all the apps (many of which are trashy and don't need to be on BB, which is why we should never get rid of the BlackBerry World app store), etc. And I'm pretty sure the old folks don't know nothing about that. You don't seem too sure why they're trying to allow for android apps to be ported over. It's like a filter, port the good apps, and disregard the terrible ones. And I don't think developers really have a problem with developing or porting apps over. It really isn't that difficult. And I don't really have a lot of time on my hands, but I will when finals are over this week. Lol BlackBerry is not for the old folks, unless you think old folks are awesome with gestures.

FYI, if one goes through the trouble of sideloading, my guess is they aren't going to install any apk they see. And people so develop bar files this far aren't after your info or trying to harm you, so sideloading bar files isn't really a problem.

Posted via CB10

[tinochiko]

I see BBM (obviously unique to BB) maybe for the third world. The only truly unique feature is word flipping. Hey, I've never seen anyone really efficient at the flicking relative to a good typist (and certainly doesn't do much to cater to BB's target market). Nevertheless it is a good feature that, if not used much, can be ignored. But as for the rest, they are all ostensibly available on IOS and/or Droid. Regardless, please, please x3 never mention native remote hard drive access on the BB as somehow being superior to any of the eco-systems of W8, IOS, or (albeit less) even Droid. (Frankly, this function also is one of the few that probably shouldn't be native as it will be difficult to keep up with file conventions of BB's competition.....) Listing this feature cuts deeply into the credibility of your argument. .... Back on track with the OP's title: it's all moot if there's no BB money to continue support/development and there's little consolation for shareholders if BB OS10's grandest accomplishment is to be a spot reserved in the Smithsonian.

A winner on all comments. Sometimes the same old poor logic re-appears. Thanks for setting things straight again!

The sideload is a disaster for all but some of those that have a lot of time on their hands. Notwithstanding, and even as a disproportionate number of youngsters relative to actual BB users frequent CB, the BB target market for BB has never been the tech savvy. Okay, I admit that I don't know what the target market is for BB, and neither does BB nor anyone on this site, but it surely isn't the young, tech savvy types.
Give BB reliability on the basics of communication and professed security but one can't mention sideload in the same breath .... as poster conveys, sideload will always cancel security. .... Can't have it all.... BB must focus with the remainder of its meager assets rather than assuming that it can skim 3-4% across the board of the approaching 1.5B total smart phone marketplace.

Side-loading - 10.2.1 how is it difficult anymore? Search and tap? Update your files please..

So the hub is available on ios and android?

File manager is available on ios ?

Ability to edit documents straight from email is available natively on ios+android?

Where do you get your data of bbs target market from? Who told you they don't have a target and I didn't realise someone made you president of Crackberry because even Kevin doesn't speak to the knowledge of everyone on the site?

Why is everyone assuming side loading compromises security? For those that have been side loading since it was available have you head of only security concerns? You're assuming just because android is not top security, bringing android apps to bbry will automatically decrease the security? Wheres your evidence? I'm not saying it doesn't but i havent actually seen proof just people assuming

Ios and android have active frames?

Ios only recently started playing flash videos
Only recently (through apps) download songs/movies from online straight to phone

stop comparing apples and Blackberry's if you're not going to acknowledge the real differences. Thanks

TechCraze C0008DDD1

[JasW]

Buy cheap sell high!

Posted via CB10

Buy low, sell lower seems to be the investment strategy at issue.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Buy low, sell lower seems to be the investment strategy at issue.

Been meaning to do some research into it, as many that swear by it here there has got to be some secret to it.

[buccaneer54]

I think the iPhone was built more for the old people because trying to learn something new is harder for them. Android was made to compete with iPhones but isn't as simple so they don't really attract the old people. BlackBerry is new fresh controls and everything. I don't think it is hard to use the phone, and those who don't know how to sideload and really want the apps can come to CB and talk to me, I'll gladly help them. Anyways BlackBerry isn't trying to attract the old people, it wants the young people who are into technology. Btw the 3rd party apps seem much better than the original, so idk what you mean by "why settle for less." Garnok, use a BlackBerry and then you will see why it is amazing. Please don't go off of assumptions that it is hard to use, bad with apps and all that. You atleast know about CB so how can you not know that BlackBerry has good devices? Have not been hearing all the talk about what's coming? Also, BBM is going to be pre-installed on the next LG phone. There's a big name for you.

Posted via CB10

How old are you? I'm sixty and I am perfectly comfortable with my Z10...!!! nlnn got it!

Posted via CB10

[Otech#CB]

How old are you? I'm sixty and I am perfectly comfortable with my Z10...!!! nlnn got it!

Posted via CB10

I'm 22 years old. Buccaneer, I wasn't trying to offend you. It isn't very difficult to learn, throughout this thread I do mention that I bought two Z10's. One for my Dad who's 59ish, to get rid of his bad Galaxy Note. And my mom gave me a new 9900 for hers. Trust me, I love old people using great phones. I was trying to comment on Garnok saying it isn't for the Tech savy...

Posted via CB10

[buccaneer54]

Ok I forgive you! LoL...tell your DAD new forum for us old folks! 60+ Whew did I just say that! lol

Posted via CB10

[Otech#CB]

Ok I forgive you! LoL...tell your DAD new forum for us old folks! 60+ Whew did I just say that! lol

Posted via CB10

Lol! Thanks. I'll definitely put in the good word. Guess just because we're old doesn't mean we gotta give up the brand we love. I'm glad you've stood up, you made me proud.

Posted via CB10

[bigbadben10]

Remember kids 60+ is the new 40+. :-)

Posted with my gorgeous Z30

[M65c02]

Speaking of credibility, agreeing with Garnoks' comments each time doesn't do you any justice. Doesn't everyone who buys an Android get it to install custom roms, and get amazing specs, and all the apps (many of which are trashy and don't need to be on BB, which is why we should never get rid of the BlackBerry World app store), etc. And I'm pretty sure the old folks don't know nothing about that. You don't seem too sure why they're trying to allow for android apps to be ported over. It's like a filter, port the good apps, and disregard the terrible ones. And I don't think developers really have a problem with developing or porting apps over. It really isn't that difficult. And I don't really have a lot of time on my hands, but I will when finals are over this week. Lol BlackBerry is not for the old folks, unless you think old folks are awesome with gestures.

FYI, if one goes through the trouble of sideloading, my guess is they aren't going to install any apk they see. And people so develop bar files this far aren't after your info or trying to harm you, so sideloading bar files isn't really a problem.

Real quick as I look at my watch (in London): Otech, are you inferring that the target market for BB is for app developers and the tech savvy types. H'mmm, interesting. We've had a few threads on what the target market for BB, or at least BB10, might be but to no avail. Except for the legacy phones, no one has ever been able to define .... because BB has never designed nor does BB10 lend itself to any (profitable) segment. (A strong argument could be made for the Q10 as intended as a replacement for OS7 and OS5 phones which it most surely was but also miserably failed to pique the interest and convert these legacy users.) And, indeed, until Thors coined the term "prosumers" BB had only shotgunned its marketing to multiple segments (well, actually still does shotgun) in the hope of netting 3-4% .... instead it found 0% of the smart phone market.

As for "garnok," I assure you that there is no intention for agreeing with "garnok" (nor anyone else for that matter) as a matter of policy. In looking back I find most of his posts to be well measured in their conciseness and supported by logic. No more, no less. (But I assure that there is no concert of mutual admiration per se.)

I agree about the level of difficulty of sideloading (and leaks) but you must understand the typical consumer of any age (even as you surely don't understand systems' development). Also, remember this is your thread on share price (i.e., indirectly on unit sales and profits) rather than mental gymnastics about the philosophy of what consumers should think is a good phone.

Focus on finals for now, then re-think about this and come back with a definition of the OS10 target market.

Side-loading - 10.2.1 how is it difficult anymore? Search and tap? Update your files please..

So the hub is available on ios and android?

File manager is available on ios ?

Ability to edit documents straight from email is available natively on ios+android?

Where do you get your data of bbs target market from? Who told you they don't have a target and I didn't realise someone made you president of Crackberry because even Kevin doesn't speak to the knowledge of everyone on the site?

Why is everyone assuming side loading compromises security? For those that have been side loading since it was available have you head of only security concerns? You're assuming just because android is not top security, bringing android apps to bbry will automatically decrease the security? Wheres your evidence? I'm not saying it doesn't but i havent actually seen proof just people assuming

Ios and android have active frames?

Ios only recently started playing flash videos
Only recently (through apps) download songs/movies from online straight to phone

stop comparing apples and Blackberry's if you're not going to acknowledge the real differences. Thanks

Tino, I'm not sure of your technical background, but you put some thought into your answer here and, therefore, deserve a full response. But just to clarify, I am one of few that makes comparisons between IOS, Droid, and OS10 (or OS5 & 7) except in observance of unit sales (and profitability). Rather I approach BB, focusing mostly on BB10, from the practical aspect of what it can and cannot do for a businessman and the financial stability/credibility of BB. But yes, most all of the functions of your named utilities are available on IOS and W8 with a few holes in Droid.

Now, just as I have prior hinted to Otech, your curiosity might have led you to wonder/research my call sign.

Our young colts here deserve a more detailed answer. But I have to trot off....I do go in spurts with CB. Be assured, however, that I'll be back to you both on your points.

[zee3p0]

Interesting, are you the proprietor of m65co2?


Posted via CB10

[garnok]

I think the iPhone was built more for the old people because trying to learn something new is harder for them. Android was made to compete with iPhones but isn't as simple so they don't really attract the old people. BlackBerry is new fresh controls and everything. I don't think it is hard to use the phone, and those who don't know how to sideload and really want the apps can come to CB and talk to me, I'll gladly help them. Anyways BlackBerry isn't trying to attract the old people, it wants the young people who are into technology. Btw the 3rd party apps seem much better than the original, so idk what you mean by "why settle for less." Garnok, use a BlackBerry and then you will see why it is amazing. Please don't go off of assumptions that it is hard to use, bad with apps and all that. You atleast know about CB so how can you not know that BlackBerry has good devices? Have not been hearing all the talk about what's coming? Also, BBM is going to be pre-installed on the next LG phone. There's a big name for you.

Posted via CB10

like i said before i use BBM regularly i can see BB future with BBM and BES, but not for their phone...i use LG and i can see more and more people using BB. but do you know LG best selling phone is their low to mid end phone from LG L3 , L4, L5, L7 . they are targeting BB main market like indonesia, malaysia, india. you can see huge increase for BBM user base, but expect BB hardware sales keep dropping

i've seen BB10 and help my nephew buying a Q10. most people dont like to sideload and find what version that works well with their device...because be honest not every APK version works well on BB10

3rd party apps never become huge attraction....and never become solution..if you know please inform me what 3rd party apps that become more popular than the original apps? or at least half the popularity of original apps.....

if some CB member here saying they dont trust google, facebook because they have your info...why do you trust some stranger having your info ? when google / facebook data being leaked to others they will get huge public embarassement, and million dollars lawsuit...while the 3rd party developers can run easily after stole your data...and the original apps owner will not take the blame..

3rd party apps have a huge problem with : security risk, slow update, the original apps owner can easily block them without any notice.

ok you can say BB target young people.....but why today younger people despise or ignore BB ? do you mean they are targeting market that ignore them....completely.

problem with BB strategy is they want to become apple..they are targeting developed market...selling high end phone, while abandoning their largest market the emerging countries..now the plan backfired they are forced to sell high end phone with low end price (Z10 for $199) while their largest market leave them for android. and their competitors smart enough using BB biggest weapon BBM to attract phone buyers from emerging country

[zee3p0]

I did a lot more digging into the financials from 2007 and back. Turns out revenue from BES is covered under "software". Thats some bad news as now the 30 000 servers realy dont look like they will generate much revenue. On the brighter side, back in those days they were showing decent profits, 600 million a year on sales of 6 million phones a year.subscriber base from BIS was 8 million. If you look at the financials up to this point you can really get the picture of how their costs became a runaway train. Interesting notes BlackBerry was generating service revenue and profits from a subscriber base of 8 million by 21 dollars per user per year. 1.75 a month. Also they were marketing to the "Prosumer" back then and before.
If BlackBerry can return to these numbers or even half the earnings, the stock will be easily worth 6 bucks.

Posted via CB10

[danprown]

This is what I have been saying for ages. BES does not generate anything meaningful for a company the size of BlackBerry. Every other article around here is BES this, BES that with no regard to the revenue from BES or the potential revenue or the market for BES. 60 million dollars per quarter (I assume that also includes about 10 million from QNX) is just what BBRY has to pay per year to service its debt.

BES revenue has to jump 1900% if there is no hardware or service just to return the company current revenue levels.

If you look at Gartner's research, the whole annual market is projected to be 1.5B and is moving into app containers. BBRY is in the lower quadrant of both innovation and sales. The problem is that the competitors in this market will or are in the process of being backed by giant corporations who can afford to drive the prices lower and lower. It will be brutal. BBRY has already responded by cutting their prices formally. Let's think on that. BlackBerry to cut prices! I also think we should not discard the possibility that the whole market may evaporate if Apple or Google decide they want to split it between themselves by offering free tools or free MDM subscriptions for iOS and Android...

I did a lot more digging into the financials from 2007 and back. Turns out revenue from BES is covered under "software". Thats some bad news as now the 30 000 servers realy dont look like they will generate much revenue. On the brighter side, back in those days they were showing decent profits, 600 million a year on sales of 6 million phones a year.subscriber base from BIS was 8 million. If you look at the financials up to this point you can really get the picture of how their costs became a runaway train. Interesting notes BlackBerry was generating service revenue and profits from a subscriber base of 8 million by 21 dollars per user per year. 1.75 a month. Also they were marketing to the "Prosumer" back then and before.
If BlackBerry can return to these numbers or even half the earnings, the stock will be easily worth 6 bucks.

Posted via CB10

[zee3p0]

There could be some service revenues from the cloud services, some device sales from the bes customers but i can't see that being expansive. They need service revenue from BBM, and it needs to be in conjunction with the carriers. 75 dollars per device were the hardwear profits in 2007.

Posted via CB10

[tinochiko]

http://mobilesyrup.com/2013/12/19/wh...-active-users/

The wording here seems to suggest to me that whatsapp also describes an 'active user' as someone who uses the application at least once monthly.. whether they have used other definitions in the past, this is the one they seem to be using now,

Again based on the wording used from the horses mouth..

TechCraze C0008DDD1

[milo53]

Well done!

I'm looking to invest too!

Mr Chen got paid like 88 million so hopefully he will do wonders!

Posted via CB10

Lazaridis, Balsille and Heins together got more than a billion, look what they did.

[cjcampbell]

Lazaridis, Balsille and Heins together got more than a billion, look what they did.

Um... the two former made a multi billion dollar company from ground up... what's your point?

[zee3p0]

Lazaridis, Balsille and Heins together got more than a billion, look what they did.

By far the most ignorant comment i have read on crackberry to date.

Posted via CB10

[tinochiko]

Hope those who thought BlackBerry was giving up on hardware have seen the Foxconn contract..

TechCraze C0008DDD1

[tinochiko]

Messaging: Over 40 million newly registered iOS/Android users in the last 60 days; more than a dozen Android OEMs to preload BBM, including most recently LG; over 250,000 BBM Channels created by global user base since launch of BBM Channels on BlackBerry, including large brands such as Coke Indonesia and USA Today; BBM is the most secure mobile messaging service for use in regulated enterprises

TechCraze C0008DDD1

[garnok]

looks like i'm wrong they are continuing hardware..

.and like i complain in here before, it's nice move for BB not trying to become apple...selling high price phone, they are moving their hardware to low end - mid end device, and focusing market like indonesia. dont know if it still BB10 or other platform but i'm guessing it still BB10

even if the revenue, profit are dropping...Chen make a good decision shifting their target market..dont know if its to late or not in indonesia but they have better chance than in other countries... if they offering less than $200 BB10 keyboard i think i will get one as my secondary phone....looks like it's nice job for new BB CEO

[zee3p0]

They pretty much are giving up the hardware. I suspected some sort of shift where they would have little to do with the devices. Foxconn will bild and manage the inventory.
Also predicted around 100 million BBM users, and the inventory write down.
Here's my next prediction for the next 2 to 3 quarters. BBM will transition to replace lost revenue from sms for the carriers. Carriers will begin to charge for access to BBM

Posted via CB10

[tinochiko]

They pretty much are giving up the hardware. I suspected some sort of shift where they would have little to do with the devices. Foxconn will bild and manage the inventory.
Also predicted around 100 million BBM users, and the inventory write down.
Here's my next prediction for the next 2 to 3 quarters. BBM will transition to replace lost revenue from sms for the carriers. Carriers will begin to charge for access to BBM

Posted via CB10

Wow..just
Wow..

TechCraze C0008DDD1

[garnok]

They pretty much are giving up the hardware. I suspected some sort of shift where they would have little to do with the devices. Foxconn will bild and manage the inventory.
Also predicted around 100 million BBM users, and the inventory write down.
Here's my next prediction for the next 2 to 3 quarters. BBM will transition to replace lost revenue from sms for the carriers. Carriers will begin to charge for access to BBM

Posted via CB10

with today announcement i dont think they give up hardware, and i dont think hardware will become their main revenue....i think BB hardware will be made to complement their services BES and BBM...they will not trying to compete with apple, microsoft, google, samsung....because BB know they cant beat them....they are happy to put their services and apps on other platform, while making a low and mid end phone just to gain small market to ensure their services and apps still being pushed.

indonesia will be the focus because they still have some good enough BB user base, and a country that known as social network holic...BBM sure will be the king of IM in indonesia and if they do it right BBM channel will gain huge user base in here

agree with you i think there will be another inventory write down for their pricier BB10 phone...because simply it is not selling..