View Poll Results: Is this smart investing?

Voters
41. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    13 31.71%
  • No

    28 68.29%
09-26-14 02:12 PM
536 ... 89101112 ...
tools
  1. Otech#CB's Avatar
    Based on what?

    Whey was BlackBerry popular in those markets to begin with?

    My understanding it PRICE was the main factor at the time of BlackBerry's rise in these markets.... not the devices, but the BIS plans. With BB10 that is gone.
    It was very popular actually. And it is still more popular there than in the U.S. The price is high, and I believe they are working on making sure their marketing strategy works this time around. With all the press releases, I think it is going to work.

    Posted via CB10
    11-22-13 11:33 AM
  2. addicted44's Avatar
    Based on what?

    Whey was BlackBerry popular in those markets to begin with?

    My understanding it PRICE was the main factor at the time of BlackBerry's rise in these markets.... not the devices, but the BIS plans. With BB10 that is gone.
    2 major reasons:
    1) Blackberry had a best in class keyboard, with best in class keyboard shortcuts.
    2) BBM meant you did not have to pay for every text message you sent. This was a significant cost saving for many. BBM was also significantly better than SMS/MMS.
    Otech#CB likes this.
    11-22-13 12:22 PM
  3. m1a1mg's Avatar
    A good day Otech. Up .20. Just need .25 to get back even.
    11-22-13 03:10 PM
  4. anon1727506's Avatar
    2 major reasons:
    1) Blackberry had a best in class keyboard, with best in class keyboard shortcuts.
    2) BBM meant you did not have to pay for every text message you sent. This was a significant cost saving for many. BBM was also significantly better than SMS/MMS.
    As I said... BIS PLAN, which means nothing to anyone upgrading to BB10. Thus the reason that I don't think that BlackBerry can "regain" these developing markets where they were once popular. Especially if someone can go buy a $100 smartphone and download BBM-X and have the same experience as their buddy on a $400 Q5 on the same monthly plan.

    As for best in class keyboard... that is like saying you make the best parachutes. Sure people that need parachutes are going to come to you, but that is a niche market. I'm not planning to jump out of any airplane.
    11-22-13 03:26 PM
  5. richardat's Avatar
    And that matters how?

    Wanting to believe in something is great, as long as you recognize that there are risk associated with it. I bet that most of your marketing professors would have told you that BlackBerry is a risk right now! If you can admit that you are being speculative with BBRY and that you are going to watch it carefully for an further signs of weakness... you'll be fine. If you blindly BELIEVE in BBRY and think that magically one day people will buy existing BB10 devices, or that a few tweaks to BB10 will bring consumers over... you need to stick with the existing thread and the rest of the "we are long on BBRY" true believers. (it's littered with the "broke" wreaks of once true believers)

    Personally I think BBRY IS a buy right now - can see it being an easy 25% gain in the short term.... but I don't have much faith in BlackBerry as a whole company for the long term.
    This poster, has said a lot of really misguided things in this thread and another to which i replied to him. You see he is a marketing student, is reading about BB in class (this is the take-home message from the class, I would certainly run from this prof/university! LOL) It is people like YOU who are countering the stock and marketing efforts, and yes, he believes that Chen's vision of mobile computing is correct, and he believes Chen understands what it takes......(I believe he receives messages from Chen while he sleeps)

    Kids today..... :-)
    chr1sny and JeepBB like this.
    11-22-13 03:44 PM
  6. Otech#CB's Avatar
    This poster, has said a lot of really misguided things in this thread and another to which i replied to him. You see he is a marketing student, is reading about BB in class (this is the take-home message from the class, I would certainly run from this prof/university! LOL) It is people like YOU who are countering the stock and marketing efforts, and yes, he believes that Chen's vision of mobile computing is correct, and he believes Chen understands what it takes......(I believe he receives messages from Chen while he sleeps)

    Kids today..... :-)
    Are you a Professor at a University or what? I'm not learning from her. I'm learning and observing from work I'm doing; from talking to people, who have no clue about BlackBerry and its capabilities. You guys just sit and talk to people on here. When these aren't even the consumers. I actually deal with consumers, and I get their opinions. I see where BlackBerry is going wrong. And it is in the marketing. It is the word of mouth from people like you guys. Saying "oh BlackBerry is going out of business". Do you even know what you are talking about? You give consumers the wrong image. I thought I was talking to knowledgeable people here who can look past the stock market, and look at why the stock market is weak. What is truly affecting it.....I honestly can't explain more. The only thing I can do, is talk about my experience with BlackBerry, and to try and convince those with an iPhone or Android to switch. I actually want to save this company. Its not all emotions. If I didn't think BlackBerry was good I wouldn't recommend it.

    In addition, before I got the Q10 I was on the verge of getting an HTC One to replace the iPhone 5 which I got to test for a month. All because my friend who worked at T-Mobile convinced me that its a great phone! I was going to get the Z10 at the time. And then I heard the Q10 was coming out a little later, so I waited. I knew BlackBerry's capabilities. I wasn't tooo stubborn to give up my iPhone 5. And I've used the iPod Touch for a while so I know their OS. BB10 was new to the market. A market of iSHEEP and Android lovers. It was too big of a switch/leap for the simpletons to make. I ain't talking out of my ***. It's the truth dammit.
    11-22-13 04:08 PM
  7. scienceboy's Avatar
    You are misunderstanding the market. Not focusing on the numbers as you admit is a big mistake here. It is not a "game." They are real and scary. They were lent $1B at 6% with a break up and conversion fee. Investors got great terms from BBRY, not the other way around. IF the real market believed in BBRY they could have got that money for about 4% with no equity rights. PW HAD TO invest to save his investment on $500M "paper" loss. Either a) he COULD NOT raise the 4B+ he needed to buy it or b) the internal numbers were so bad he didn't want to buy it. Either way the reaction and Stock price says it all. I think you should finish your classes first before you pontificate. "Smart" investors took a bath at 50, 40, 30,20 and even 10 in BBRY..... 5B z30's sold.....

    I am going to guess, and I could be wrong, that you go to school in Canada? I can assure you most MBA programs are not using BBRY as an example of anything these days though if BBRY fails, they certainly will use it as a prime example of hubris, failure to adapt to the market place, what not to do and BoD mismanagement.
    Ya, well, the marketeers have been overwhelmingly unsuccessful at predicting any sort of trends whatsoever in the marketplace. That is because business experts are experts in pretty much nothing at all. Speaking of hubris.

    What the current situation with BlackBerry may well be is a great example of the market judging long term trends on the basis of short term outcomes. One can only assume these financial wizards did rather poorly indeed at science.

    Posted with my shiny new Z30
    Otech#CB and plasmid_boy like this.
    11-22-13 04:14 PM
  8. Otech#CB's Avatar
    Ya, well, the marketeers have been overwhelmingly unsuccessful at predicting any sort of trends whatsoever in the marketplace. That is because business experts are experts in pretty much nothing at all. Speaking of hubris.

    What the current situation with BlackBerry may well be is a great example of the market judging long term trends on the basis of short term outcomes. One can only assume these financial wizards did rather poorly indeed at science.

    Posted with my shiny new Z30
    For the love of Science/God. Thank you! <3
    11-22-13 04:37 PM
  9. Otech#CB's Avatar
    A good day Otech. Up .20. Just need .25 to get back even.
    That's what I'm talking about baby! We're risin' up, back to the top. I bet you no one predicted that increase.

    Posted via CB10
    11-22-13 05:14 PM
  10. DecAway's Avatar
    I bought 20 more shares yesterday at 6.10. Up to 40 shares now. It's not a lot, but I shall buy more. Today was a surprise fore sure.

    Posted via CB10
    Otech#CB likes this.
    11-22-13 06:46 PM
  11. Otech#CB's Avatar
    I bought 20 more shares yesterday at 6.10. Up to 40 shares now. It's not a lot, but I shall buy more. Today was a surprise fore sure.

    Posted via CB10
    Great Job @DecAway! Keep playin' it safe. I plan to bid again soon. Will keep you posted on this thread. Goodluck to us.
    11-22-13 07:04 PM
  12. DecAway's Avatar
    Great Job @DecAway! Keep playin' it safe. I plan to bid again soon. Will keep you posted on this thread. Goodluck to us.
    I'll drink to that!

    Posted via CB10
    Otech#CB likes this.
    11-22-13 07:34 PM
  13. garnok's Avatar
    Based on what?

    Whey was BlackBerry popular in those markets to begin with?

    My understanding it PRICE was the main factor at the time of BlackBerry's rise in these markets.... not the devices, but the BIS plans. With BB10 that is gone.
    maybe because BB still have good enough user base/marketshare number so BB Brand still exist even if the numbers keep dropping...not like other market like the US etc where user base are below 2% make it BB brand almost completely gone from everyone mind.

    even if they still have good userbase number they must work very hard and very fast...to turn around their dropping sales number before their key market completely ignore BB..

    i dont think BB recovery in key market can match android phone penetration the android phone maker are getting more agressive with their pricing, specs, and marketing. you can get $50 android phone off contract with ok specs, bbm, large apps selection, ok camera.

    besides public perception about BB in indonesia and several key market ...already following people in US
    android / iphone is cool
    WP not mainstream
    BB uncool,overpriced, last year,lack of apps, outdated phone
    Last edited by garnok; 11-23-13 at 06:11 AM.
    11-23-13 06:00 AM
  14. richardat's Avatar
    maybe because BB still have good enough user base/marketshare number so BB Brand still exist even if the numbers keep dropping...not like other market like the US etc where user base are below 2% make it BB brand almost completely gone from everyone mind.

    even if they still have good userbase number they must work very hard and very fast...to turn around their dropping sales number before their key market completely ignore BB..

    i dont think BB recovery in key market can match android phone penetration the android phone maker are getting more agressive with their pricing, specs, and marketing. you can get $50 android phone off contract with ok specs, bbm, large apps selection, ok camera.

    besides public perception about BB in indonesia and several key market ...already following people in US
    android / iphone is cool
    WP not mainstream
    BB uncool,overpriced, last year,lack of apps, outdated phone
    I think it inevitable Garnok..we've seen the pattern repeat, and BB has absolutely nothing to fight it and keep it from occurring in all those other markets. Actually it was probably iphone that did the heavy damage to BB in the developed markets, whereas it's cheap android - as you and others mention - leading the attack in many of these other markets.. BB07 certainly cannot sustainably fight into the future....it would be like trying to hold back a modern army with a sword, a lance, and a suit of armor. In any country where data plans can be offered reasonably BB07 will lose it's ground.

    I don't think BBm has much of a future in developed nations but in these last holdouts, BBM may well help accelerate the disappearance of BB07.
    techvisor and M65c02 like this.
    11-23-13 06:29 AM
  15. garnok's Avatar
    I think it inevitable Garnok..we've seen the pattern repeat, and BB has absolutely nothing to fight it and keep it from occurring in all those other markets. Actually it was probably iphone that did the heavy damage to BB in the developed markets, whereas it's cheap android - as you and others mention - leading the attack in many of these other markets.. BB07 certainly cannot sustainably fight into the future....it would be like trying to hold back a modern army with a sword, a lance, and a suit of armor. In any country where data plans can be offered reasonably BB07 will lose it's ground.

    I don't think BBm has much of a future in developed nations but in these last holdouts, BBM may well help accelerate the disappearance of BB07.
    yup BBM has already release previous BB user to freely choose other platfrom....right now every samsung / LG / iPhone already being advertised as BBM ready in indonesia...and while it is good to make BBM popular but it is already kill BB sales in here, everytime i see their store it always empty very different with samsung store beside them...

    and their BB10 phone already getting very huge price cut i guess because lack of sales...Z10 only $350 , Q10 only $500, Q5 only 300 and if you consider huge tax for import mobile phone BB will only get lower margin than they get from other countries.

    regular data plan already being offered cheaper then BIS...you can get 600mb data for $ 2.5 , 3GB for $6 . while for BB plan you have to pay minimum $4.5 only to use BBM and social network (FB & twitter) if you want to have full service include browsing etc you have to pay $10 but still you cant use youtube and the connection speed are very slow

    if BB want to take back their key market they have to offer cheap BB10 phone lower than $150 and offer apps selection that popular...but if they cant they should say good bye to their key market,,,
    techvisor likes this.
    11-23-13 09:15 AM
  16. Otech#CB's Avatar
    yup BBM has already release previous BB user to freely choose other platfrom....right now every samsung / LG / iPhone already being advertised as BBM ready in indonesia...and while it is good to make BBM popular but it is already kill BB sales in here, everytime i see their store it always empty very different with samsung store beside them...

    and their BB10 phone already getting very huge price cut i guess because lack of sales...Z10 only $350 , Q10 only $500, Q5 only 300 and if you consider huge tax for import mobile phone BB will only get lower margin than they get from other countries.

    regular data plan already being offered cheaper then BIS...you can get 600mb data for $ 2.5 , 3GB for $6 . while for BB plan you have to pay minimum $4.5 only to use BBM and social network (FB & twitter) if you want to have full service include browsing etc you have to pay $10 but still you cant use youtube and the connection speed are very slow

    if BB want to take back their key market they have to offer cheap BB10 phone lower than $150 and offer apps selection that popular...but if they cant they should say good bye to their key market,,,
    $150 with contract? or for an unlocked phone? I think if its with a contract, then that's cool. Even $100 for a Z10 is good with contract, and $50 for the Q5 with contract. That's my take, but I wouldn't know what all of India's population is willing to pay.

    Edit: Initial down payment is what I am referring to.
    Last edited by Otech#CB; 11-23-13 at 03:36 PM.
    11-23-13 03:03 PM
  17. garnok's Avatar
    $150 with contract? or for an unlocked phone? I think if its with a contract, then that's cool. Even $100 for a Z10 is good with contract, and $50 for the Q5 with contract. That's my take, but I wouldn't know what all of India's population is willing to pay.

    Edit: Initial down payment is what I am referring to.
    $150 off contract...some emerging market you have to pay full price for a phone....no subsidized phone...but you can pay it 6 - 24 month installment 0% interest in indonesia lthere are lots of good enough android/WP8 phone lower than $150.

    but not just the price they need to add popular apps like instagram, path, etc. today phone buyers always consider apps before they buy a phome
    11-23-13 06:58 PM
  18. Otech#CB's Avatar
    $150 off contract...some emerging market you have to pay full price for a phone....no subsidized phone...but you can pay it 6 - 24 month installment 0% interest in indonesia

    but not just the price they need to add popular apps like instagram, path, etc. today phone buyers always consider apps before they buy a phome
    Oh I see.

    The apps are well on there way. iGrann (instagram), Blackgram is already out. Whine (Vine) is on its way too. And on top of that you can sideload the android apps you want. And you can also download the leak 10.2.1.1055 which lets you install the apk straight from your phone. And on top of that you can install the 3rd party android app stores. BlackBerry cannot totally drop those costs like the cheap Androids. I mean its still a BlackBerry, and they need to maintain an image. I mean they can if there absolutely no Z10 selling, but it would be kinda bad to have cheaper Z10's over there than over here. The Q5 is by far the best choice for lowering price. That's just my opinion though.
    11-23-13 07:07 PM
  19. anon1727506's Avatar
    "Maintain an image"?

    Sorry but they are going to have to spend millions, probably close to a billion to overcome their current image.

    Apps are improving, but has a Long way to go before they have what consumers will be willing to "deal" with.

    But their are multiple problems keeping consumers away.

    Posted via CB10
    techvisor likes this.
    11-23-13 08:31 PM
  20. Otech#CB's Avatar
    "Maintain an image"?

    Sorry but they are going to have to spend millions, probably close to a billion to overcome their current image.

    Apps are improving, but has a Long way to go before they have what consumers will be willing to "deal" with.

    But their are multiple problems keeping consumers away.

    Posted via CB10
    Alright, I'm fine with them spending millions. But on what?

    So it's not so much a matter of price that's drawing people away. In a way, people don't see BlackBerry the same as they used to. Which is why when they spend millions, I think it should go towards marketing. Also a little spend some on developer companies if they want them to make their own Native BB10 app (snapchat, instagram, vine and whatever sounds like a big one to you. These apps have large communities that can potentially bring people to the company.That's my opinion. Maybe they don't even need to spend on the big developer companies, they will eventually come when they see users on the BlackBerry platform, as well as those great 3rd party apps I mentioned. And hopefully it'll be a chain reaction.

    What are your thoughts? What do you think they should be doing?

    Edit: A drop in price will not benefit the company's image, or value.

    Posted via CB10
    11-23-13 09:05 PM
  21. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    What are your thoughts? What do you think they should be doing?
    The company as is now is likely "doomed". There really isn't another chance to turn around. We're counting down the days to the future of Blackberry, which may be bought out or broken up or bankruptcy.

    What Blackberry could have done was manufacture Android devices. History, with WebOS and Symbian, dictates that, generally speaking, hardware companies cannot turn into software companies and that most cannot balance developing hardware and software at the same time.

    Edit: A drop in price will not benefit the company's image, or value.
    On the contrary, there is value in higher revenue/volume of devices shipped. Many companies like Amazon are valuated solely on their revenue. The reason Nokia, which earns negative dollars in its device division, is worth so much more than BBRY? Revenue.

    Revenue is everything and if a lower price can raise BBRY's revenue, even if BBRY may actually lose more money, it will become a more valuable company overall.
    techvisor and JeepBB like this.
    11-23-13 11:30 PM
  22. Otech#CB's Avatar
    The company as is now is likely "doomed". There really isn't another chance to turn around. We're counting down the days to the future of Blackberry, which may be bought out or broken up or bankruptcy.

    What Blackberry could have done was manufacture Android devices. History, with WebOS and Symbian, dictates that, generally speaking, hardware companies cannot turn into software companies and that most cannot balance developing hardware and software at the same time.
    In my opinion, they are doing fine. Sure they could use a bigger team if necessary to develop their software quicker, but they are doing well as a software company. I just filled out their survey for the new Beta Zone (Beta Zone Impression), and I recommended that they cross-platform that as well. That way they can start introducing beta-apps which can be tested, and hopefully they can gain some more hype for their software skills. And example of this is to introduce a Beta BBM Channels for Android and iOS. The implementation of this can be astronomical, if consumers respond well. Their feedback can be given and BlackBerry can make adjustments before launch, hoping that all those who currently have BBM (Over 20+ Million users), once ready, can enjoy the APP as they will already have access to the app using their current BBID. I think they will be successful as they seem to already be headed in the right direct. Becoming completely Android could do more damage to their Enterprise side of things. They would lose all their legacy device owners. Security wouldn't be looking too nice for BlackBerry.


    On the contrary, there is value in higher revenue/volume of devices shipped. Many companies like Amazon are valuated solely on their revenue. The reason Nokia, which earns negative dollars in its device division, is worth so much more than BBRY? Revenue.

    Revenue is everything and if a lower price can raise BBRY's revenue, even if BBRY may actually lose more money, it will become a more valuable company overall.
    I can understand a price cut, but not for all devices. At least not a steep cut for each. Just decrease where it is due. Only to make up for some of the losses, but don't give it for free and have BlackBerry looking like a cheap old company. How will they maintain that luxurious/prestigious image? For example, I think it would have damaged the sales of the Porsche Design P'9982. Some might say that doesn't affect BlackBerry or something a long those lines, but it does. You think Porsche Design will do more work with BlackBerry if their image is ruined? They might as well make an iPhone Porsche Design because that will surely be a success. I definitely agree that more revenue is necessary, so price cuts can be expected, but it probably wont be too big of a surprise.

    Sorry for the long post. Hope we can keep this informative, you and I.
    11-24-13 12:53 AM
  23. garnok's Avatar
    Oh I see.

    The apps are well on there way. iGrann (instagram), Blackgram is already out. Whine (Vine) is on its way too. And on top of that you can sideload the android apps you want. And you can also download the leak 10.2.1.1055 which lets you install the apk straight from your phone. And on top of that you can install the 3rd party android app stores. BlackBerry cannot totally drop those costs like the cheap Androids. I mean its still a BlackBerry, and they need to maintain an image. I mean they can if there absolutely no Z10 selling, but it would be kinda bad to have cheaper Z10's over there than over here. The Q5 is by far the best choice for lowering price. That's just my opinion though.
    problem is 3rd party apps, will not make other platform users buying BB10 phone...real apps are better.

    yup BB already make improvement by allowing APK without need to convert it to BAR, but we still need to wait the result first...is it as good as they say or it has to many flaw example lag, limited feature, unstable apps, freezing etc.

    today BB Brand are not being recognized as high end brand.and people dont want to buy an expensive BB phone..especially in emerging market

    so for BB to move forward they need to spend billion dollars of advertising (same as samsung)....or they make a reasonable low end BB10 phone price with top apps selection..the clock is ticking for BB ...they are losing their market share every quarter ,they cant make mistake as they did in the past
    11-24-13 01:40 AM
  24. Otech#CB's Avatar
    problem is 3rd party apps, will not make other platform users buying BB10 phone...real apps are better.
    However, some who are still using their legacy devices that want to upgrade might consider because those are the people who most likely stay in the loop. And social media (twitter, youtube, etc.), people can see or hear about BlackBerry World steppin' up. Also if BlackBerry does a commercial showing some big apps that are really popular, and just make it young, active, and outgoing. It needs like a T-Mobile, AT&T, in terms of the U.S. I needs to go where the market is weak, and where it is dropping. If we wanted to, we could make a sample commercial, and pitch it to BlackBerry, I think Mr. Chen would like that! I'm not an expert though, this is my strategy though.

    yup BB already make improvement by allowing APK without need to convert it to BAR, but we still need to wait the result first...is it as good as they say or it has to many flaw example lag, limited feature, unstable apps, freezing etc.
    I doesn't lag much for me. Everyone who has been complaining about lag is someone who most likely hasn't been running the OS for 1-2 weeks. And because it required auto-loading the leaked OS and so many files were altered/updated, it caused a major lag during the first few days. This is normal, and many don't know. The phone is still catching up with the change. If they read the leak before installing they will understand that it is a normal symptom.

    today BB Brand are not being recognized as high end brand.and people dont want to buy an expensive BB phone..especially in emerging market

    so for BB to move forward they need to spend billion dollars of advertising (same as samsung)....or they make a reasonable low end BB10 phone price with top apps selection..the clock is ticking for BB ...they are losing their market share every quarter ,they cant make mistake as they did in the past
    There is where we both agree. They only have $3-4 billion, and its less now, but I think maybe millions could do the trick. Don't just throw away the money at random advertising. I have a feeling its going to be played smart this time around.
    11-24-13 03:25 PM
  25. meltbox360's Avatar
    And here I am having bought at $12 and held all the way through $18. Meh tax deductible and my sum isn't too big. I like to look at the upside. Be brave when those around you are afraid. Be afraid when they're brave. Just don't risk the farm doing it!

    Posted via CB10
    Otech#CB likes this.
    11-25-13 02:20 AM
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