[Otech#CB]

So what revenue / profit forcast do you see "if" the 30 000 test servers commit? Thats the question. Forget about bbm. While we have heard from a few negative news reports about a few companies not using BlackBerry, what we haven't heard much of is from those that have signed on.

Posted via CB10

My boy Sean Paul got 45K+ subscribers. BBM has great potentially. Mercedes Patronas F1 has 40K+, Gyptian has 20K+... etc. BBM is getting attention and it's going to get better. It will generate revenue, and it's not going to be a tiny bit. I plan to promote my business on there. Lol I'm still waiting for their email to be honest. I want to be verified. Have you tried BBM Channels?

Posted via CB10

[zee3p0]

Didn't mean there was no value to bbm but it will take a while to see any revenue. For the next 4 quarters the service revenue will have to keep the ship afloat and prevent bankruptcy. The margin on the service revenue was around 70 percent i believe, if it could be seperated from the loosing parts like hardware you would have a nice bit of profit. Nobody really knows other than insiders if the cost cutting can balance out the heardwear losses, or scale it down enough to break even, however the ceo and board seem to be implying this.


Posted via CB10

[Otech#CB]

Didn't mean there was no value to bbm but it will take a while to see any revenue. For the next 4 quarters the service revenue will have to keep the ship afloat and prevent bankruptcy. The margin on the service revenue was around 70 percent i believe, if it could be seperated from the loosing parts like hardware you would have a nice bit of profit. Nobody really knows other than insiders if the cost cutting can balance out the heardwear losses, or scale it down enough to break even, however the ceo and board seem to be implying this.


Posted via CB10

They could be generating a bunch of revenue from people who are willing to pay to be verified and get noticed. I don't understand why they haven't allowed me to start, but I have a feeling it is because they want the big guys on board first. It makes sense, but I'm waiting patiently... I hope they can push BBM hard and once Channels goes live for Android and iOS, push it even more! I'm having an article published on BerryFlow.com or on BeFlow (Application for BB10 Devices), you should definitely see the Top 7 Things to Add to BBM Channels. If people share their thoughts, BlackBerry won't hesitate to listen, or so it seems.

[tinochiko]

Phew, that was some catch-up, are the 'realists' still around?

TechCraze C0008DDD1

[chr1sny]

Phew, that was some catch-up, are the 'realists' still around?

TechCraze C0008DDD1

We're all still around. What's there to talk about other than the stock hitting 5 year lows?

It's clear you people don't want to talk about that lol.

[JeepBB]

We're all still around. What's there to talk about other than the stock hitting 5 year lows?

It's clear you people don't want to talk about that lol.

Point of order Mr Chairman, I believe that it's a 10-year low.

The tail-end of 2003 was the last time BB shares were this low.

But, the "investors" probably don't want to talk that either LOL

[tinochiko]

We're all still around. What's there to talk about other than the stock hitting 5 year lows?

It's clear you people don't want to talk about that lol.

Okay well since you've spoken for them all, I just wanted to ask a question, or rather ask you to consider a situation..bear with me my imagination runs deep...

So a lot of you have been saying when it comes to investments, emotions should steer clear, well does that principle apply to all types of investments?

Take for example marriage, this is an investment in the sense that you are commiting the rest of your life(well maybe not these days) to an individual, hoping that througout that time you will get a return though mutually beneficial 'love', children, someone to care when you die etc.. I'm just illustrating how marriage can be considered an investment, if we agree on that, then my next point is..

Is the best marriage one in which having worked out all the risks, you've seen they are minimal? Where one thinks the most rationally? Or is the best marriage one which is an expression of emotions through actions?

I know I know I hear you, you're not married to blackberry, and if you're a small risk small reward investor then for sure BlackBerry is a steer clear zone right now, but if you're a high risk high reward investor, then BlackBerry doesn't really look that bad, and it's not senseless to invest in it at all,

The point I'm trying to make (although it's probably got lost somewhere) is its as 'realistic' to see BlackBerry as an investment opportunity as it is to see it as a monetary black hole, if not more so..

The other point I was trying to make, os whilst the generic view at the moment is you don't tie emotions to investments, if you have a look at people who've won big through investments you'll find mixed stories, if you look at people who've won really big, you'll find that most if not all did the opposite of what everyone was doing, they went against the tide (high risk, high reward) there is little or no way that someone can do that rationally no matter how big the 'reward' is which you could tie rationality to, there is an element of emotion in all high risk transactions.

The same is true in general, if youre about to do something risky, there is inevitably going to be more emotion tied to it than something of less risk, so the advice that emotions and investments can't correlate is idealistic at best, and whilst obviously high risk is high risk, it's also high reward meaning you can be a successful investor by investing emotionally. Or you could lose everything, but what better lesson than having nothing and turning it into something? The American Dream isn't it?

So so so sorry for the length and probably the content, .. I realise I've said nothing about BlackBerry, well whilst in excited about the 10.2.1 and bbm channels developments, I'm conserved as to the impact this will have over the whole Company although I'm hopeful, and I've become known among my friends to be a Blackberry guy, constantly engaging them about its awesomeness,

Anyway sorry again for the length, looking forward to responses

TechCraze C0008DDD1

[Otech#CB]

Phew, that was some catch-up, are the 'realists' still around?

TechCraze C0008DDD1

Lol, @Tino. They exist throughout the whole CB community. The only thing they wanna talk about is how BlackBerry is at lowest it's ever been, all improvements/advancements set aside. Crazy world out there.

BTW I just subscribed.

Posted via CB10

[Otech#CB]

Anyone who wants to see my whole take on BBM Channels and what I think they need to improve on, read my article on BerryFlow - 7 Ways to Improve BBM Channels

[zee3p0]

BBM needs to enable business to send through bbm, calendar events so that service businesses can fire out appointments to clients that can be instantly added to the clients calendar. Like if you are a dentist and you send email reminders to your customers, fire it through bbm instantly to the customer and one touch adds the appointment to the calender. Bb,m could be pc based to do this. There is lots of ways bbm can venture for profits.
Another great way to use bbm could be for scheduling of employees all kept together in a group with an integrated calendar.

So many things could be done

Posted via CB10

[Otech#CB]

BBM needs to enable business to send through bbm, calendar events so that service businesses can fire out appointments to clients that can be instantly added to the clients calendar. Like if you are a dentist and you send email reminders to your customers, fire it through bbm instantly to the customer and one touch adds the appointment to the calender. Bb,m could be pc based to do this. There is lots of ways bbm can venture for profits.
Another great way to use bbm could be for scheduling of employees all kept together in a group with an integrated calendar.

So many things could be done

Posted via CB10

It's true, there are many ways. Things that don't already exist in one single app. Not far out from their organizational skills. Good suggestions.

[garnok]

Okay well since you've spoken for them all, I just wanted to ask a question, or rather ask you to consider a situation..bear with me my imagination runs deep...

So a lot of you have been saying when it comes to investments, emotions should steer clear, well does that principle apply to all types of investments?

Take for example marriage, this is an investment in the sense that you are commiting the rest of your life(well maybe not these days) to an individual, hoping that througout that time you will get a return though mutually beneficial 'love', children, someone to care when you die etc.. I'm just illustrating how marriage can be considered an investment, if we agree on that, then my next point is..

Is the best marriage one in which having worked out all the risks, you've seen they are minimal? Where one thinks the most rationally? Or is the best marriage one which is an expression of emotions through actions?

I know I know I hear you, you're not married to blackberry, and if you're a small risk small reward investor then for sure BlackBerry is a steer clear zone right now, but if you're a high risk high reward investor, then BlackBerry doesn't really look that bad, and it's not senseless to invest in it at all,

TechCraze C0008DDD1

marriage is not investment....it is a commitment

investment :
the action or process of investing money for profit or material result. (see dictionary, google,etc)

if you expect some material profit from marriage...then i think you are a gold digger

investors love high risk, and high reward...but you still need to analyze trend, company fundamental, company forecast for years ahead...and for many investors seems BBRY think it is not a good investment...

to be honest from my point of view...
*BBRY company fundamental are bad
* smartphone market trend heading same way as TV, PC...many smartphone maker will keep make their phone price more cheaper to compete..race to the bottom.
* the positive thing about BBRY is only their BBM. but we still need to see how large market they can capture, and how BBRY can make money from BBM besides they have many competitors like wechat, snapchat, whatsapp, line, kakaotalk.

[Otech#CB]

marriage is not investment....it is a commitment

investment :
the action or process of investing money for profit or material result.

The same way I could pull out my investment I can terminate my commitment for a price if there's a prenup. And let's not forget some women or men do it to get something out of the marriage. But that's besides the point. We're just using a little bit of imagination here.

Posted via CB10

[tinochiko]

marriage is not investment....it is a commitment

investment :
the action or process of investing money for profit or material result. (see dictionary, google,etc)

if you expect some material profit from marriage...then i think you are a gold digger

investors love high risk, and high reward...but you still need to analyze trend, company fundamental, company forecast for years ahead...and for many investors seems BBRY think it is not a good investment...

to be honest from my point of view...
*BBRY company fundamental are bad
* smartphone market trend heading same way as TV, PC...many smartphone maker will keep make their phone price more cheaper to compete..race to the bottom.
* the positive thing about BBRY is only their BBM. but we still need to see how large market they can capture, and how BBRY can make money from BBM besides they have many competitors like wechat, snapchat, whatsapp, line, kakaotalk.

?A happy, healthy marriage is not the result of luck, but rather that of both spouses being willing to make an investment of time and energy. Couples who work regularly to support each other and their marriage can build and nurture a life-long relationship - those that get better with time.?
-�Bruce Gilson

Money is not the only form of investment, i.e one of the factors of production is Entrepreneurship., an entrepreneur is in it for the long haul, if you start a business you don't expect to see profit for some time, but you invest time+energy for the time being.. so just saying money isn't the only thing you can invest

In any case, you do invest money in a marriage, unless you're very conservetive and don't have a ring, someone else paid for the wedding, honeymoon, house, you don't get your partner gifts etc

In the same sense that the investment doesn't have to be money, neither does the reward, although your example of goldsdiggers shows that marriage can be used as a short term investment, those who's main goal isn't monetary gain are in it for the long whole which is riskier, and in that sense, if you truly believe in BlackBerry, making profit isn't your main objective, you actually want the company to succeed, and so you look to the long term,

I didn't say that high risk, high reward meant blind investment, I'm saying that in the past investors have succeeded because they believed something that was contrary to the mainstream predictions, not just because they had a passion for what they were investing in, but they could see something others couldn't

With respect, you sound like one of my 'iPhone' friends who kept telling me (before launch) how cross-platform bbm was the worst thing ever because bbm was the only thing people bought Blackberry's for.

Every single sale after cross-platform bbm voids this point to some extent, although it could be argued that the bbm experience on a BlackBerry is better so some people stoll just buy it for bbm, but for a better (native) 'bbm experience) however this would be a small percentage, the rest of the individuals see the benefits of BB10 over other platforms etc.

To decide whether BlackBerry is a good investment, in my opinion, you need to throw out whatever the market is saying, that's because the market doesn't always move on facts e.g. imagine that although adding a lot of value to the public company and performing well, a high-up employee is revealed to have become a drug addict while employed although he has managed to work with it non-detrementally, what will the stock price do? (assumption) fall, has the value of the company in real terms actually fallen? No, but on the stock market it has... a stupid example I know and so many thing I'll let you point out about it but my point is;

Just because there are more people selling than buying doesn't mean the real value fk the company has fallen, why are those people selling? Is it because of the article s they see on Blackberry and think yikes I'm pulling my money out of there quickly? Unless you know the exact reasoning behind the people buying and selling, you can't make an accurate prediction using stock market information, and before w someone jumps in, this does apply to retail and the big boy investors, just because a major investment firm decides BlackBerry is not the place to invest. Doesn't mean there is no value in the company, these investment firms have to protect their company so ofcourse they will be have as defensively as they can, they can't afford to take risks especially in light of the numerous high risk transactions linked to the 2008 fiasco...

So what I would say is looking at Blackberry's products, few argue that they aren't good products, even fewer (apps aside) aren't willing to put them above iPhone or Samsung, so arguably they do have the best devices on the market especially with the Z30 (note in my definition of best, how well they're selling doesn't come into it as someone implied earlier, this makes no sense, say a New Ferrari is made but no one knows about it so no one buys it, does the fact that none is buying mean the product is junk?)

Also blackberry has its stronger arm (to some) =BES both 07 and 10

Sorry for the length it just grows lol

TechCraze C0008DDD1

[tinochiko]

As many competitors like wechat, snapchat, whatsapp, line, kakaotalk.

Not refusing the BBM is ann asset but it's not the only one, although it's an asset with great potential,

please again I mean no disrespect but your definition of competitor must be different from mine, to be a competitor, the product/servcie must in some way be a substitute or close substitute, that is; if bbm stops working, the usage of snapchat grows this is opposed to complimentary good/services; using snapchat as well as bbm and when one stops working my use of the other has no or little effect

In this sense I don't consider snapchat a competitor as yet maybe in the future depending on their features so maybe one to watch but currently not really, do you sue snapchat to book a meeting with your boss? Or even book a meeting with friends? From my experience snapchat is like entertainment like youtube than communication although communication is the method of entertainment


On my side of the Island, what'sapp and text messaging are the major competitors to BBM, if I can't bbm someone, I either text or whatsapp them..




TechCraze C0008DDD1

[garnok]

@tinochiko

let me keep it short...

you can look in dictionary investment it always associate with money, and finance.

and nope i love BB put BBM cross platform because it means i can use my android phone and ipad to BBM. from customers POV i am happy i can use BBM in other platform, but from business prespective i think BBM cross platform is a dead sentence for BB phone especially in emerging market...in indonesia, india they are losing marketshare...

you know stock market is the ultimate way to know how much Company value isnt it?. it is to know how much other company/person willing to buy the company... even in real terms prem watsa only offer BB 4.7 billion dollars..a small difference with their market value (stock price x total shares)..while several months before he said BB worth $40 per share...so why PW not offer what he told months before ?

people not always selling their stock while they are panicking..or bad news...if you see from their financial report than you can figure it why BB stock price is down...their subscribers are down, their revenue are down, BB10 sales are are not meeting their target, profit are down, $1billion dollarinventory write down, majority sales come from BBOS phone, they are losing emerging market their previous stronghold.

people dont buy BB10 phone because they are bad product...but people today want apps, best hardware, competitive pricing, great after sales service, brand image , proven OS ..maybe BB can win in professional / enterprise / government because their securities..but in mainstream / average joe smartphone market i dont think so...

[garnok]

Not refusing the BBM is ann asset but it's not the only one, although it's an asset with great potential,

please again I mean no disrespect but your definition of competitor must be different from mine, to be a competitor, the product/servcie must in some way be a substitute or close substitute, that is; if bbm stops working, the usage of snapchat grows this is opposed to complimentary good/services; using snapchat as well as bbm and when one stops working my use of the other has no or little effect

In this sense I don't consider snapchat a competitor as yet maybe in the future depending on their features so maybe one to watch but currently not really, do you sue snapchat to book a meeting with your boss? Or even book a meeting with friends? From my experience snapchat is like entertainment like youtube than communication although communication is the method of entertainment


On my side of the Island, what'sapp and text messaging are the major competitors to BBM, if I can't bbm someone, I either text or whatsapp them..




TechCraze C0008DDD1

they are competitors...

BBM and snapchat,whatsapp, kakaotalk, line they are all competitors, they have same product, same target market, maybe different things is how they make their money

while many people using 2 or more services but there will be chat platform being regularly use than the others....they compete to keep their customers using their product..like any social netwok services

you can see when FB become dominant social network sites friendster, myspace become bankrupt, close because their users using FB more and more leaving their previous friendster/myspace account. but at least the battle for a dominant chat platform still dont have any definitive winner...

[tinochiko]

@tinochiko

let me keep it short...

you can look in dictionary investment it always associate with money, and finance.

and nope i love BB put BBM cross platform because it means i can use my android phone and ipad to BBM. from customers POV i am happy i can use BBM in other platform, but from business prespective i think BBM cross platform is a dead sentence for BB phone especially in emerging market...in indonesia, india they are losing marketshare...

you know stock market is the ultimate way to know how much Company value isnt it?. it is to know how much other company/person willing to buy the company... even in real terms prem watsa only offer BB 4.7 billion dollars..a small difference with their market value (stock price x total shares)..while several months before he said BB worth $40 per share...so why PW not offer what he told months before ?

people not always selling their stock while they are panicking..or bad news...if you see from their financial report than you can figure it why BB stock price is down...their subscribers are down, their revenue are down, BB10 sales are are not meeting their target, profit are down, $1billion dollarinventory write down, majority sales come from BBOS phone, they are losing emerging market their previous stronghold.

people dont buy BB10 phone because they are bad product...but people today want apps, best hardware, competitive pricing, great after sales service, brand image , proven OS ..maybe BB can win in professional / enterprise / government because their securities..but in mainstream / average joe smartphone market i dont think so...

I'll try and keep it short...

Saying 'you can look it up in the dictionary' is a poor argument, definitions change constantly, whatever in the dictionary is what some people decide was societies definition at the time, it's practically immediate outdated

In any case, like I said before, and please read so I don't keep repeating myself because you've repeated yourself, not actually adding any points to contradictory my statements,.. anyway, like I said before, marriage involves money, granted it's not a orthodox form of consious investment, but it is an investment, and I've given you examples of investments which aren't just putting money to make money (Entrepreneur)

You are exactly giving the view my anti-blackerry friends gave about bbm going cross platform which implys that you don't really have a 'blackberry' vision and don't understand what it's for. If blackberry was just bbm, why are blackberry phones still selling? Yes they're losing market share in some places. They are also gaining it in others, can you show evidence to prove that they lost market share as a direct result of bbm going cross platform?

Lol again I don't seek to intentionally belittle what you're saying, but you just implied that all companies that aren't on the stock market have no value... so Richard Branson owns some broke companies then, he bought his companies back from the stock exchange because he saw that the quality of his service and goods was no longer the main thing that made up the value of the company..
Yes it's what p.w used to value the company but that's not the only thing you can use, especially if you're looking at long term investment...

I never said the stock value was low just because people are panicking, I was trying to show that people's 'feelings' have an effect on the stock price which can be different to the reality..

Whilst all the things you say may be true, although I haven't verified them myself. What did you expect? If you look at the way things have been happening you're not expecting to hear oh suddenly revenue is up and sales are up it takes time, and when you hear that, it will be too late to invest because the share price will be rocketing, that's why I say when you're considering long term investment you look at other things not just the current figures, you look at how likely a solution is and.the time line etc..

You speak with the mind of someone who doesn't see the blackberry vision and is just in it for short term investment, like a marriage you have good times and bad, and if you have the bottle to stick with it in the bad times, you'll experience the benefits of the good times., but some people aren't built for it and that's why there are easy exits like divorce.. I'm not saying 100% I'm sure blackberry will succeed wool over my eyes, I'm saying it's not silly or naive to believe that a solution is possible, just time

Please show me the surveys you've done to come up with these 'facts' competitive pricing? That's why Apple is seen currently as the golden stock even though they have high profit margins? �74 just on 32gb memory? If you don't think BlackBerry can succeed with those who want to get things done that's your choice, some people still don't belive man has been to the moon.. just don't discourse others with poor information

dont buy BB10 phone because they are bad product...but people today want apps, best hardware, competitive pricing, great after sales service, brand image , proven OS ..maybe BB can win in professional / enterprise / government because their securities..but in mainstream / average joe smartphone market i dont think so...[/QUOTE]



TechCraze C0008DDD1

[tinochiko]

they are competitors...

BBM and snapchat,whatsapp, kakaotalk, line they are all competitors, they have same product, same target market, maybe different things is how they make their money

while many people using 2 or more services but there will be chat platform being regularly use than the others....they compete to keep their customers using their product..like any social netwok services

you can see when FB become dominant social network sites friendster, myspace become bankrupt, close because their users using FB more and more leaving their previous friendster/myspace account. but at least the battle for a dominant chat platform still dont have any definitive winner...

Completely disregarding the evidence j showed you, thanks I assure you snapchat is not a competitor, not everyone wants to send a message with a picture attached..everyone competes for customers, just not the same customers, snapchat and bbm do not complete for.the same customers although some may overlap.. exactly you don't see whatsapp or bbm losing out as snapchat becomes more popular, because it's an addition, you still need bbm/whatsapl even with snapchat..


TechCraze C0008DDD1

[tinochiko]

http://n4bb.com/blackberry-walking-dead/

TechCraze C0008DDD1

[JeepBB]

BlackBerry Ltd. The Walking Dead - N4BB

TechCraze C0008DDD1

Thanks for posting.

I remember when articles used to be written on here on CB, and re-posted elsewhere... seems most of my BB info comes from N4BB and Bloomberg re-posts these days.

[chtang]

Completely disregarding the evidence j showed you, thanks I assure you snapchat is not a competitor, not everyone wants to send a message with a picture attached..everyone competes for customers, just not the same customers, snapchat and bbm do not complete for.the same customers although some may overlap.. exactly you don't see whatsapp or bbm losing out as snapchat becomes more popular, because it's an addition, you still need bbm/whatsapl even with snapchat..


TechCraze C0008DDD1

As these companies grow, they're going to try and build new features and new products and encroach on each other's customer bases. Just like Blackberry is working on turning BBM into a social networking platform with Channels. Remember that Facebook basically got its start as an online campus directory for Harvard students before turning into the monster it is today.

In tech, everyone's your competitor. Would you have believed me if I told you ten years ago that Blackberry's biggest competitors would be Apple and Google?

Who knows. In another ten years we may be arguing over who makes the best brain stem implant: Reddit or Pinterest.

[tinochiko]

As these companies grow, they're going to try and build new features and new products and encroach on each other's customer bases. Just like Blackberry is working on turning BBM into a social networking platform with Channels. Remember that Facebook basically got its start as an online campus directory for Harvard students before turning into the monster it is today.

In tech, everyone's your competitor. Would you have believed me if I told you ten years ago that Blackberry's biggest competitors would be Apple and Google?

Who knows. In another ten years we may be arguing over who makes the best brain stem implant: Reddit or Pinterest.

Loool oh dear, I'm talking about competitors in a business sense, the sense that matters when you're talking about an investment, and I was talking about the current competitors, although if you read what I wrote I said I said CURRENTLY snapchat can not be considered a competitor although if it adds more FEATURES then it could be..


TechCraze C0008DDD1

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Loool oh dear, I'm talking about competitors in a business sense, the sense that matters when you're talking about an investment, and I was talking about the current competitors, although if you read what I wrote I said I said CURRENTLY snapchat can not be considered a competitor although if it adds more FEATURES then it could be..

I agree that right now BBM has no competitors.......maybe once BlackBerry add those other features and people install it again and stick with it. Then it will be a competitor.

[tinochiko]

I agree that right now BBM has no competitors.......maybe once BlackBerry add those other features and people install it again and stick with it. Then it will be a competitor.

I never said it had NO Competitors, I said snapchat was not a competitor, BlackBerry'a competitors include Whatsapp, which is evidenced by the fact that when bbm went cross platform, whatsapp users declined in some areas...text messaging is also a major competitor..

Your point is arguing that it is currently not a good competitor, the millions of users who downloaded bbm think.otherwise but i guess it's down to opinion..

TechCraze C0008DDD1