11-08-13 12:33 PM
29 12
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  1. wincyUt's Avatar
    Really, why not? BB10 phones already have unlocked Android Runtimes and even just recently made "BlackBerry Android Runtime" formally available for download in the BlackBerry World, in order to enhance the smooth running of "sideloaded" Android apps.

    Everyone knows that the lack of robust apps ecosystem is an achilles heel for BlackBerry and we can safely say that it would take a miracle for BlackBerry to narrow this widening app gap with Apple & Android phones. So, how can BlackBerry ever solve this daunting lack of robust apps library problem?

    I'm fascinated to hear what others think would be viable options or solutions to eliminating BlackBerry's achilles heel. My take, though very unorthodox, is to have Google Play Store run parallel with BlackBerry World Store on the BB10 phones. What will BlackBerry really have to lose if this were to happen? Maybe lost revenue from BlackBerry World. But the upside is that the lack of app issue will become a thing of the past and maybe more consumers would want to try out the phones, resulting in more revenue from phone sales.

    If this topic or thread has been discussed before, pardon me.
    DrWormBoy likes this.
    11-05-13 12:01 PM
  2. tickerguy's Avatar
    BlackBerry has intentionally blacklisted the Google framework code necessary for integration to work; you cannot even sideload it as the phone will reject it.

    This is also true for any app that has calls to it embedded inside including mapping calls.

    This is why the Starbucks app, for example, cannot be converted and run -- it includes the ability to geolocate and then display on the maps app. Rather than call the BlackBerry mapping/nav application they simply blow it up when you try to load it.

    The reason for this is unclear as BlackBerry has never OFFICIALLY said why this is the case, but there has been speculation that threats were made by Google to sue. Maybe yes, maybe no. I suspect the real reason was financial and BlackBerry thought they could play "skim the app developer selling price" game.

    If true the board deserves to be strung up by its genitals and then fed to feral hogs.
    11-05-13 12:06 PM
  3. wincyUt's Avatar
    It's like being Penny wise Pound foolish. SMH.

    BlackBerry has intentionally blacklisted the Google framework code necessary for integration to work; you cannot even sideload it as the phone will reject it.

    This is also true for any app that has calls to it embedded inside including mapping calls.

    This is why the Starbucks app, for example, cannot be converted and run -- it includes the ability to geolocate and then display on the maps app. Rather than call the BlackBerry mapping/nav application they simply blow it up when you try to load it.

    The reason for this is unclear as BlackBerry has never OFFICIALLY said why this is the case, but there has been speculation that threats were made by Google to sue. Maybe yes, maybe no. I suspect the real reason was financial and BlackBerry thought they could play "skim the app developer selling price" game.

    If true the board deserves to be strung up by its genitals and then fed to feral hogs.
    11-05-13 12:14 PM
  4. raino's Avatar
    Because Google Play is a proprietary application, and would need to be licensed from Google, Inc.
    11-05-13 12:24 PM
  5. tickerguy's Avatar
    Because Google Play is a proprietary application, and would need to be licensed from Google, Inc.
    You're missing the point here.

    BlackBerry did not need to blacklist the app. They could have either done nothing or negotiated for the right to include it on the devices.

    They have never said they tried the latter and were told to go to hell, and frankly, I can't imagine why Google would do that, since money is all green and they're in the business of trying to make same. Expanding your market is never bad and remember, Android as an OS costs zero -- so there was no cost to Google of saying yes, and only potential revenue to be had by doing so.

    The other obvious alternative was simply do nothing -- neither include OR blacklist.
    11-05-13 12:27 PM
  6. Shao128's Avatar
    They have never said they tried the latter and were told to go to hell, and frankly, I can't imagine why Google would do that, since money is all green and they're in the business of trying to make same.
    This should give you a sense of why Google would never allow it: Google’s iron grip on Android: Controlling open source by any means necessary | Ars Technica
    raino and Etios like this.
    11-05-13 12:30 PM
  7. wincyUt's Avatar
    This should give you a sense of why Google would never allow it: Google’s iron grip on Android: Controlling open source by any means necessary | Ars Technica
    I have read the article and it is quite interesting. But there is no where in the article that indicates that Google won't be receptive to licensing the Google Play Store if it generates additional revenue.
    Amazon has successfully forked the OS with little or no obstructions from Google.

    Won't BlackBerry have to do something very radical in order to break this app nightmare? What is the magic wand?

    Posted via CB10
    11-05-13 12:47 PM
  8. Shao128's Avatar
    I have read the article and it is quite interesting. But there is no where in the article that indicates that Google won't be receptive to licensing the Google Play Store if it generates additional revenue.
    Amazon has successfully forked the OS with little or no obstructions from Google.
    Are you sure you read the whole article? Specifically page 3? Its pretty clear there about Google and how it licenses. Amazon doesn't license Google Play and has it's own app store - which I should add is what BB did, devs repackage and submit to BB world. Not to mention you can't just throw Google Play on there and thats it. So many apps require Google services to operate. So then what? You'd need to license all of Google Apps.
    11-05-13 12:53 PM
  9. anon1727506's Avatar
    Has been discussed... pretty often.

    Google does not really give things away and BlackBerry wanted to get a piece of the pie so they couldn't go with the Google Play option.

    And let's be honest they are trying to build a platform that can stand on it's own. Yes they went the route of trying to make the platform very attractive to existing developers of another platform. But having Google Play as a feature wouldn't really help them much. Let's face it most Android devices have much more bang for the bug and are running a mature OS that isn't prone to the "growing pains" that BB10 is inflecting on users.

    What BlackBerry needs is a headhunter department that goes out and gets the apps that people really want. Give them several million dollars and I bet you can buy most any app you want. Would be much better spent than the millions they have spent on hardware writedowns, Jet Planes and all the money that wining and dining prospective buyers has cost them.
    wincyUt likes this.
    11-05-13 01:19 PM
  10. epark88's Avatar
    I've always been curious about this:

    What if BlackBerry bought out the dev who created Barinstall and simply incorporated Barinstall into BB World? With a bit of tweaking, folks could directly access Google Play, download their Android apps, convert them to BB10 and install them onto their BB phones seamlessly.

    Would something like this be acceptable? Ethical? Legal?...

    Posted via Z10 on CB 10...
    11-05-13 01:41 PM
  11. wincyUt's Avatar
    You said "So many apps require Google service to operate", so does that mean the sideloaded apps from Google Play does not reqiure Google's service to operate? And when I was talking about licensing, I meant licensing the store itself from Google and not the individual apps.
    You see, Google had to do something very radical to survive the iPhone onslaught; so what would you suggest that BlackBerry do to survive the achilles heel? My option my might not be the solution but there has to be a solution out there.

    Are you sure you read the whole article? Specifically page 3? Its pretty clear there about Google and how it licenses. Amazon doesn't license Google Play and has it's own app store - which I should add is what BB did, devs repackage and submit to BB world. Not to mention you can't just throw Google Play on there and thats it. So many apps require Google services to operate. So then what? You'd need to license all of Google Apps.
    11-05-13 01:45 PM
  12. eldricho's Avatar
    You said "So many apps require Google service to operate", so does that mean the sideloaded apps from Google Play does not reqiure Google's service to operate? And when I was talking about licensing, I meant licensing the store itself from Google and not the individual apps.
    You see, Google had to do something very radical to survive the iPhone onslaught; so what would you suggest that BlackBerry do to survive the achilles heel? My option my might not be the solution but there has to be a solution out there.
    Have you tried sideloading Ingress? Example of an app that requires Google Services. It's tightly integrated and would need more then the Play Store to work. There are a couple more apps that work this way, so we would need the Google Apps to use them.

    Posted via CB10
    11-05-13 01:59 PM
  13. jtfolden's Avatar
    I would think that anyone invested in the success of BB10 would NOT want this to happen. That is the exact opposite of what you do if you want loyal developers and users....
    11-05-13 02:38 PM
  14. wincyUt's Avatar
    But how can BB10 phones be successful if the lack lustre sales continues. Doesn't BlackBerry have to adapt to what the consumer trend demands? Kind of, like having a great designed restaurant with one of the world's best chef but with no customers lining up to enjoy the meal because all they want is hamburgers (apps/games).
    Again something has to give, for BlackBerry to succeed. The question is, What is it?

    I would think that anyone invested in the success of BB10 would NOT want this to happen. That is the exact opposite of what you do if you want loyal developers and users....
    11-05-13 03:47 PM
  15. jtfolden's Avatar
    But how can BB10 phones be successful if the lack lustre sales continues. Doesn't BlackBerry have to adapt to what the consumer trend demands? Kind of, like having a great designed restaurant with one of the world's best chef but with no customers lining up to enjoy the meal because all they want is hamburgers (apps/games).
    Again something has to give, for BlackBerry to succeed. The question is, What is it?
    ... you can't market a BB on how well it runs Android apps... because it will never run them better than an Android phone. Also, if someone buys a BB and then only runs Android apps on it then they won't care whether their next phone is BB or not because they can just take their apps to any future Android phone purchase. On top of that, developers have little reason to make native apps if they can just tweak Android apps to run on the platform.

    This lesson played out 20 years ago between Microsoft and IBM. IBM had a superior new operating system called OS/2 that could run DOS and Windows apps in addition to native apps. It was marketed with the tag line "A better DOS than DOS, a better Windows than Windows...". They were building a decent user base but not a lot of developers as it ran Windows apps so well... when a better version of Windows came along, users just moved their apps to Windows and OS/2 sank like a rock.

    Who would go to Burger King if they were advertising McDonald's hamburgers?
    the_sleuth likes this.
    11-05-13 07:55 PM
  16. CrackedBarry's Avatar
    It'll never happen OP...

    They need Googles corporation. Which they won't get. There's nothing in it for Google, as they'll get a fair chunk of Blackberrys users anyways, if they leave Blackberry alone and the company falls further behind,

    It would also force Blackberry to go along with Googles demands, and put whatever software that Google demands on their phones. (Google Maps, Gmail, Googles messaging app, etc.)
    11-05-13 11:56 PM
  17. wincyUt's Avatar
    It'll never happen OP...

    They need Googles corporation. Which they won't get. There's nothing in it for Google, as they'll get a fair chunk of Blackberrys users anyways, if they leave Blackberry alone and the company falls further behind,

    It would also force Blackberry to go along with Googles demands, and put whatever software that Google demands on their phones. (Google Maps, Gmail, Googles messaging app, etc.)
    And why wouldn't BlackBerry find some sort of compromise with Google, after all BlackBerry is at a great disadvantage in this apps dilemma. Beggars can't be choosers. Pride goes before a fall.

    Posted via CB10
    11-06-13 08:11 AM
  18. mastermike87's Avatar
    ... you can't market a BB on how well it runs Android apps... because it will never run them better than an Android phone. Also, if someone buys a BB and then only runs Android apps on it then they won't care whether their next phone is BB or not because they can just take their apps to any future Android phone purchase. On top of that, developers have little reason to make native apps if they can just tweak Android apps to run on the platform.

    This lesson played out 20 years ago between Microsoft and IBM. IBM had a superior new operating system called OS/2 that could run DOS and Windows apps in addition to native apps. It was marketed with the tag line "A better DOS than DOS, a better Windows than Windows...". They were building a decent user base but not a lot of developers as it ran Windows apps so well... when a better version of Windows came along, users just moved their apps to Windows and OS/2 sank like a rock.

    Who would go to Burger King if they were advertising McDonald's hamburgers?
    It would happen of McDonald's sold analytical information to third parties.

    Posted via CB10
    11-06-13 08:44 AM
  19. sosumi11's Avatar
    And why wouldn't BlackBerry find some sort of compromise with Google, after all BlackBerry is at a great disadvantage in this apps dilemma. Beggars can't be choosers. Pride goes before a fall.
    Google is an advertising agency. They sell ad space. They could care less about stand alone apps as they prefer to market free apps with their placed ads imbedded in them. Free standing (paid) apps are not encouraged by Google.

    Android is not a profitable platform for anybody (except Samsung, but they only manufacture commodity products so it doesn't matter what OS in their devices).
    11-06-13 10:45 AM
  20. jgrobertson's Avatar
    We need a way to get specialized apps on OS10 that such as those from banks, stock brokers, airlines, hotels, dept. Stores etc. BlackBerry needs to provide a way for those to be converted and on Bb world or similar place. Versions need to be kept current. I see an opportunity for someone to make a business of this service if Blackberry won't do it.
    11-07-13 01:17 AM
  21. wincyUt's Avatar
    Google is an advertising agency. They sell ad space. They could care less about stand alone apps as they prefer to market free apps with their placed ads imbedded in them. Free standing (paid) apps are not encouraged by Google.

    Android is not a profitable platform for anybody (except Samsung, but they only manufacture commodity products so it doesn't matter what OS in their devices).
    Ok, so why not allow Google apps (with the ads and all) on BB10 phones, since it's more likely that consumers will have less excuses not to buy BB10 phones. It would be a win win for Google & BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10
    11-07-13 08:02 AM
  22. m1a1mg's Avatar
    Ok, so why not allow Google apps (with the ads and all) on BB10 phones, since it's more likely that consumers will have less excuses not to buy BB10 phones. It would be a win win for Google & BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10
    Because Google has to pay to develop and support those apps. How many BB10 phones are actually in use? Google needs to know that to substantiate the cost. BB isn't being very forthcoming with this type of info.
    11-07-13 08:22 AM
  23. wincyUt's Avatar
    That sounds interesting. BlackBerry has no choice but to deal aggressively with this apps problem, with a sense of urgency.
    The lack of robust apps doesn't bother me because I'm a "Multi-Platformer", but it's obvious that consumers are speaking loud and clear with their wallets.

    We need a way to get specialized apps on OS10 that such as those from banks, stock brokers, airlines, hotels, dept. Stores etc. BlackBerry needs to provide a way for those to be converted and on Bb world or similar place. Versions need to be kept current. I see an opportunity for someone to make a business of this service if Blackberry won't do it.
    11-07-13 08:23 AM
  24. wincyUt's Avatar
    Because Google has to pay to develop and support those apps. How many BB10 phones are actually in use? Google needs to know that to substantiate the cost. BB isn't being very forthcoming with this type of info.
    Well I would think it's in BlackBerry's interest to work out some sort of arrangement with Google, for instance agreeing to subsidize the carrying costs of running these apps on BB10 phones for a stipulated period or paying for the development costs or asking permission to build the apps just like it did for Facebook.
    m1a1mg likes this.
    11-07-13 08:29 AM
  25. m1a1mg's Avatar
    Well I would think it's in BlackBerry's interest to work out some sort of arrangement with Google, for instance agreeing to subsidize the carrying costs of running these apps on BB10 phones for a stipulated period or paying for the development costs or asking permission to build the apps just like it did for Facebook.
    Agree completely.
    wincyUt likes this.
    11-07-13 12:09 PM
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