11-08-15 01:46 PM
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  1. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    A) the $1.25 billion is already factored in as share dilution. If they pay back in cash, a ton of short shares cover. That's just the way it works, at least below that $10 pivot. Also Fairfax doesn't hold the whole thing.

    B)Nanthealth is scheduled to IPO shortly. That $100 will be paid back way more than you think.

    C) The recent Cisco deal just proved that that patent portfolio is worth more than the market is pricing in. Sure it's gone down, but value on security and IOT patents are picking up. BlackBerry has a huge amount of those. Cisco and a second unnamed party are willing to pay, so therefore it is now worth more as an asset.

    D) Real estate assets, for the most part are gone, I'll agree.





    Posted via CB10
    A) Where does the money come from to buy those short shares?

    B) Nanthealth... depends on what BlackBerry got for their $100 Million Investment. Did they get some ownership? Yes if the have some ownership that $100 Million could easily be worth $1 Billion on it's own. Or did they get the honor to provide the network solution and using Nanthealth as something to "give" investors? Maybe their deal was designed so their return would be to collect licensing revenues... once they have a product in place. Unless you know what the "deal" was it's hard to say when BlackBerry would see a return or what value that investment adds to the the company. It is a big question mark.... one that should eventual provide a nice return either way.

    C) Cisco deal was made long ago, they wanted the patents from Nortel that the Rockstar Consortium bought. Don't know what BlackBerry's share of that $4.5 Billion was, don't know how much of the $900 million sale of 2/3 of the patents they got. Not sure what their share of the other 1/3 was. But Cisco had long been interested in buying or licensing a number of those more valuable patents... some of which BlackBerry must have gotten as their "share".
    But speaking of which has any of that ever shown up on an ER? Or would you count that as an "investment" which would be part of their Cash holdings?

    The thing is no one really know what BlackBerry is truly worth.... not untill you hire someone to dig into the company to see what is really there. I'm just saying that from an investment point of view... there is less there than there was 18 months ago. Not counting the "potential" that BlackBerry has... as that would be even harder to calculate without more information about what is going on.
    07-16-15 08:27 AM
  2. exiledcanadian's Avatar
    A) Where does the money come from to buy those short shares?
    But speaking of which has any of that ever shown up on an ER? Or would you count that as an "investment" which would be part of their Cash holdings?
    According to GAAP, patents are intangible assets. The value can based the cost of acquisition. In the case of the Rockstar Consortium, the value would be the price BlackBerry paid for Nortel's assets minus the amortization that has occurred since. Patents have to be amortized over a maximum period of 20 years. If developed internally, the asset's value cannot include the cost of development as that is considered an operating expense. As a result, any internally developed patent is usually low in value.
    Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.
    07-16-15 10:08 AM
  3. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    According to GAAP, patents are intangible assets. The value can based the cost of acquisition. In the case of the Rockstar Consortium, the value would be the price BlackBerry paid for Nortel's assets minus the amortization that has occurred since. Patents have to be amortized over a maximum period of 20 years. If developed internally, the asset's value cannot include the cost of development as that is considered an operating expense. As a result, any internally developed patent is usually low in value.
    Did find an article that stated the BlackBerry originally paid $770 million or 17% of the original $4.5 Billion. That they reportedly received $115 Million when the Consortium sold the the 4,000 patents to RPX in Dec 2014.

    And on BlackBerry Q2 Results for fiscal 2012
    Approximately $780 million was invested as part of a consortium of companies that successfully
    bid to acquire intellectual property assets from Nortel
    They noted it as "Acquisition of other assets", so maybe they just added it as an Intangible..
    07-16-15 10:51 AM
  4. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Yeah, real damn shame we still don't have Heins running the company with no direction at all.
    Heins wanted consumers on board.
    He tried to show that the new BlackBerry is not the same PoS Curve you got from your employer 4 years ago.

    He tried to finally have a rather solid touchscreen device. He even launches it before the Q10 was available (one of his best decisions).

    There are some other things like him renewing BES, understanding that they will need something to compensate the falling BIS subscriber number and he also layed off quite a few people when it became clear that the numbers won't be good.

    His biggest mistake was the for sale sign.
    That's what killed so much enterprise support and consumer confidence.

    So yeah, I really don't know why people love to bash T.Heins that much.
    He was imho pretty capable and tried his best to launch a new platform, to transition BlackBerry away from BBOS (because the market already made that transition anyhow).

    Whereas Chen got a finished OS, a de facto finished transition, an already downsized company and even a finished product (Passport), yet he was still unable to do anything for the handsets. Actually, BlackBerry's hardware portfolio has never been worse than under Chen's reign.

    Obviously, there is still one wild card out there:
    John Chen actually succeeding in making BlackBerry a software company.
    Until that happens, I'd say Heins>Chen.
    07-25-15 05:42 AM
  5. pbfan's Avatar
    For T, he created a problem that needed somebody like C can resolve.

    Posted via CB10
    07-25-15 03:47 PM
  6. kenteeet's Avatar
    Posted via CB10
    09-01-15 09:02 PM
  7. DaSchwantz's Avatar
    A) Where does the money come from to buy those short shares?

    B) Nanthealth... depends on what BlackBerry got for their $100 Million Investment. Did they get some ownership? Yes if the have some ownership that $100 Million could easily be worth $1 Billion on it's own. Or did they get the honor to provide the network solution and using Nanthealth as something to "give" investors? Maybe their deal was designed so their return would be to collect licensing revenues... once they have a product in place. Unless you know what the "deal" was it's hard to say when BlackBerry would see a return or what value that investment adds to the the company. It is a big question mark.... one that should eventual provide a nice return either way.

    C) Cisco deal was made long ago, they wanted the patents from Nortel that the Rockstar Consortium bought. Don't know what BlackBerry's share of that $4.5 Billion was, don't know how much of the $900 million sale of 2/3 of the patents they got. Not sure what their share of the other 1/3 was. But Cisco had long been interested in buying or licensing a number of those more valuable patents... some of which BlackBerry must have gotten as their "share".
    But speaking of which has any of that ever shown up on an ER? Or would you count that as an "investment" which would be part of their Cash holdings?

    The thing is no one really know what BlackBerry is truly worth.... not untill you hire someone to dig into the company to see what is really there. I'm just saying that from an investment point of view... there is less there than there was 18 months ago. Not counting the "potential" that BlackBerry has... as that would be even harder to calculate without more information about what is going on.
    A) Whoever sold them in the first place already has the money

    B) If I recall the Nanthealth deal included some (unspecified amount of) ownership.

    C) It still proves that the BBRY patent portfolio is worth more than the market is valuing it at. They couldn't count any Rockstar patents as cash or investments, because they're not cash or investments, they're patents. That's my point...the patent potfolio is being monitized, and it hits the books positively. The SP hasn't factored any of this value in. No one knows what it is worth, for sure, but Patent sale #1 just paid for buyback #1. There is another deal coming onto the books in 1-2 quarters.






    Posted via CB10
    09-02-15 06:26 AM
  8. DaSchwantz's Avatar

    The big difference now is the company's assets are worth half what they were then.... Plus Fairfax has debs on the first 1.25 Billion that comes off the top, so the risk to shareholder is much higher now.
    They sold down assets and now have $3.3B USD in cash on the books (Incidentally if they had held the Canadian real estate it probably would have had to be marked down by at least a third due to currency changes). The convertible therefore presents zero risk to shareholders at this time, although it creates a major overhang on SP breaking past $10, which we have seen.

    Posted via CB10
    09-02-15 06:46 AM
  9. crackbrry fan's Avatar
    BlackBerry needs to go private now.

    Posted via CB10
    11-08-15 01:46 PM
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