View Poll Results: Are the 48k S4BB apps Pure Fraud?

Voters
99. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes. This is a major fraud.

    58 58.59%
  • No. There must be a reasonable explanation.

    41 41.41%
09-02-13 06:39 AM
97 123 ...
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  1. mikeycollins13's Avatar
    48,000 apps by one developer S4BB?

    See for yourselves search for S4BB:


    BlackBerry World - Search Results


    If this true there could be jail time here. I would love know how many $10000 or other cash rewards S4BB were awarded?

    The deceit at Blackberry is starting to unravel. It's appalling.
    Last edited by mikeycollins13; 08-21-13 at 11:08 PM.
    08-21-13 09:53 PM
  2. raino's Avatar
    08-21-13 09:58 PM
  3. Bla1ze's Avatar
    Your options for the poll are quite terrible.. Just because I don't think Heins really had any real knowledge of the matter doesn't mean there is a reasonable explanation for it, lol. Do you seriously, honestly believe Thorsten is sitting around talking about S4BB and how to defraud investors using them? Come on now.
    08-21-13 10:00 PM
  4. mikeycollins13's Avatar
    I think there was huge pressure to deliver a big number of apps. Huge.

    Whatever happened it's out of the closet and in the open now. It's truly shocking. This is shareholder money here, pensioners in Canada who have been defrauded if this is true.

    To intentionally produce fake apps to pump your stock is fraud.

    To pay one developer millions of dollars to help you pump your stock is even worse.
    08-21-13 10:08 PM
  5. axllebeer's Avatar
    This is apparently a little above me but a dire need for apps was there and this company seems to have delivered so what's the issue here?
    08-21-13 10:11 PM
  6. Bla1ze's Avatar

    Whatever happened it's out of the closet and in the open now.
    It was never in the closet, anyone who took the time to look saw it. In fact, I'd go so far as to say many, many people saw it daily and never gave it that much thought at all. It's not like it was some back alley arrangement, it's all right there in front of your face every single time you look in BlackBerry World on your device and online. Every single day when people look at the 'new arrivals' in the app section you see this.
    08-21-13 10:13 PM
  7. amazinglygraceless's Avatar
    Wait, what...the ketchup people are ridin' dirty
    Blacklatino likes this.
    08-21-13 10:21 PM
  8. mikeycollins13's Avatar
    I disagree. Paying two developers to manufacture 60,000 apps that are totally junk, and then using that to claim ‘developers are embracing' your platform is outright fraud. Boiler room pump tactics.

    Heins will have now alienated every single investor as this paints Blackberry's corporate ethos in very bad light.

    This is so disappointing as the last thing this brand needed was another scandal after last earnings call.

    Heins and co continue to trash this brand. Its sad.

    It is the outing of blatant skuldugery that truly scares investors. What else have they done?
    edwinsberry likes this.
    08-21-13 10:23 PM
  9. Bla1ze's Avatar
    Well, I'm so glad you have so much evidence to base it off of, maybe you should go all out and start a class-action lawsuit. Also, as a Canadian and you seemingly being from somewhere other than Canada, thanks for worrying about my pension plan that will most likely not even exist by the time it comes for me to collect it.

    I'm not disagreeing with you that it shouldn't be happening mind you however, I am disagreeing with the notion that Heins in particular had anything to really do with it all and the idea it's all some big massive CEO plot. Next you'll be telling me that S4BB is actually BlackBerry and they did it all themselves.
    08-21-13 10:24 PM
  10. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    Your options for the poll are quite terrible.. Just because I don't think Heins really had any real knowledge of the matter doesn't mean there is a reasonable explanation for it, lol. Do you seriously, honestly believe Thorsten is sitting around talking about S4BB and how to defraud investors using them? Come on now.
    Agree here. I don't feel Heins "defrauded" investors; though, I wouldn't go so far as to suggest there is a reasonable explanation. The real victims are consumers and developers, IMO, and not investors.
    08-21-13 10:28 PM
  11. mikeycollins13's Avatar
    Well, I'm so glad you have so much evidence to base it off of, maybe you should go all out and start a class-action lawsuit. Also, as a Canadian and you seemingly being from somewhere other than Canada, thanks for worrying about my pension plan that will most likely not even exist by the time it comes for me to collect it.


    What possible evidence do you need more than the 48000 apps by one developer!

    It is a total joke and it is un-defendable.
    08-21-13 10:35 PM
  12. rodan01's Avatar
    Obviously Thorsten knew the situation and he did allow it with a clear intention to deceive customers and investors.
    I don't know if there is a strong case, but this behavior is unethical.
    08-21-13 10:37 PM
  13. amazinglygraceless's Avatar
    These two posts appeared this morning. Thought they may be relevant to this discussion as well

    By my rough count we are upto 4 companies providing 67500 apps?

    Anyone got any more to throw into the pile?

    * Mippin - 17,000
    * S4BB - 47,000
    * World offline maps - 1750
    * City Navigator - 1900.

    See...here's the thing with the whole $2k reward, which is going to make this whole garbage app situation that much worse. There were a few developers who DID exploit the $2k reward by making hundreds (thousands?) of junk apps, and submitting them under various names (likely friends and family). Just take a look at a few of these developers:

    BlackBerry World - yipyaushing Liensaojay
    BlackBerry World - wongtingting Chenchowyen
    BlackBerry World - zhenfuchen Lienhongchen
    BlackBerry World - solaivee

    A bit too obvious maybe?

    And this is just one I stumbled upon accidentally. Who knows how many more there are that exploited the huge rewards purse during the port-a-thon.
    08-21-13 10:51 PM
  14. anon(3896606)'s Avatar
    For some reason it REALLY angers me when people purposely misspell someones name, not sure why, but it always has.
    If you didn't purposely misspell his name, then please, fix it and I apologize.
    But if you did, let me get this message across clearly - It's Heins NOT Heinz.

    And PS: I agree with Bla1ze on the matter, all of these lawsuit threads are really starting to get silly.

    PPS: You should've also made just a "No." option in the poll.
    Last edited by r0v3rT3N; 08-21-13 at 11:05 PM.
    08-21-13 10:54 PM
  15. danprown's Avatar
    Also, looks like BBRY does not see anything wrong with the situation.
    “Developers in all app stores employ a number of different monetization tactics. BlackBerry World is an open market for developers and we let market forces dictate the success or failure of these tactics,” BlackBerry said in a statement provided to TechCrunch. “Discoverability in overcrowded stores continues to be an issue affecting all developers. This is why we have worked hand in hand with developers on the Built for BlackBerry program to help showcase apps and games that exemplify the power of BlackBerry 10.”
    Single BlackBerry World Developer Accounts For Nearly A Third Of The Store’s Entire App Library | TechCrunch

    Good luck on any class action suits... Maybe be better to start it in the US as Canada is a cost-recovery jurisdiction...
    08-21-13 10:55 PM
  16. danprown's Avatar
    I would think the issue of two or three developers controlling 50% of the apps on the platform must surely have come across his desk very early one and an executive decision must have been made. BBRY has chosen to treat this as a non-problem (at least publicly).

    Well, I'm so glad you have so much evidence to base it off of, maybe you should go all out and start a class-action lawsuit. Also, as a Canadian and you seemingly being from somewhere other than Canada, thanks for worrying about my pension plan that will most likely not even exist by the time it comes for me to collect it.

    I'm not disagreeing with you that it shouldn't be happening mind you however, I am disagreeing with the notion that Heins in particular had anything to really do with it all and the idea it's all some big massive CEO plot. Next you'll be telling me that S4BB is actually BlackBerry and they did it all themselves.
    08-21-13 10:59 PM
  17. mikeycollins13's Avatar
    Agree that S4BB is the tip of the iceberg. No wonder there seemed like there was so much junk in the app store. All fake apps with no purpose.

    So $2,000x47,000=$84,600,000.

    Heins and co need to go to jail if this is true.
    08-21-13 11:04 PM
  18. Bla1ze's Avatar
    I would think the issue of two or three developers controlling 50% of the apps on the platform must surely have come across his desk very early one and an executive decision must have been made. BBRY has chosen to treat this as a non-problem (at least publicly).
    Or those actually in charge of the situation (BlackBerry World) made their own decision to carry on with it. This has essentially been going on long before BlackBerry 10.. it started with the PlayBook as far as I can remember and that's before Thorsten even took over the CEO responsibilities. It's just more prominent on BlackBerry 10 now.

    I remember opening up App World at the time, on the PlayBook and the whole new arrivals page being flooded with nothing but useless eBooks and Maps apps from all the same app dev. To lay this solely on Thorsten is not accurate and again, I'm not saying it's right.. I'm just saying it's stupid to blame any one person at BlackBerry.
    08-21-13 11:30 PM
  19. the_sleuth's Avatar
    What this highlights is that BlackBerry World is horribly designed. This criticism has filled numerous threads in CB. At the very least, BlackBerry World should have a books section.

    With this latest bad news or "scandal", how many Golden Razzberry Awards has BlackBerry won? I have lost count.......
    Attached Thumbnails Did Heins and company willfully defraud investors?-golden_raspberry_award.jpg  
    08-21-13 11:53 PM
  20. mset's Avatar
    I'm not disagreeing with you that it shouldn't be happening mind you however, I am disagreeing with the notion that Heins in particular had anything to really do with it all and the idea it's all some big massive CEO plot.
    Bla1ze, I agree wholeheartedly with your first post in this thread. However, this reply... not so much. Ultimate responsibility for the actions of the firm lie with the CEO. It's that 'The Buck Stops Here' thing. Heins in particular *absolutely* has something to do with it. And in this case, you and I seem to have a slightly different take on the scale of this problem. If one Dev really did make 47,000 apps and take home $80MM+, that's the biggest news to come out of BBRY since the release of the Z10 (other than last week's 'for sale' news), and it's a total, unmitigated disaster.

    It doesn't make any difference if, as you say, this was all unfolding 'right in front of' our faces on Blackberry World. It means the company was knowingly misleading its customers and much more importantly, its investors and owners. If you don't think that's a basis for a fraud charge, I'd respectfully suggest you look into it a bit further.
    08-21-13 11:53 PM
  21. mikeycollins13's Avatar
    Or those actually in charge of the situation (BlackBerry World) made their own decision to carry on with it. This has essentially been going on long before BlackBerry 10.. it started with the PlayBook as far as I can remember and that's before Thorsten even took over the CEO responsibilities. It's just more prominent on BlackBerry 10 now.

    I remember opening up App World at the time, on the PlayBook and the whole new arrivals page being flooded with nothing but useless eBooks and Maps apps from all the same app dev. To lay this solely on Thorsten is not accurate and again, I'm not saying it's right.. I'm just saying it's stupid to blame any one person at BlackBerry.

    That's an eloquent defense, and it certainly mitigates it somewhat if Heins did not start this practice.

    Still, holding it up 100k app store as a mark of success and developer adoption, when half the apps are fake....is fraudulous. And be frank, one should now expect 75%+ to be fake apps.

    Who did these muppets think they were fooling?

    This story will have legs. It is a watershed moment in blackberry brand destruction. One where investors were shown, for the first time, the full extent of the fraud at blackberry.

    What else have they been cooking up? How bad is it up in Waterloo etc etc. Seeds of doubt.
    Last edited by mikeycollins13; 08-22-13 at 12:09 AM.
    edwinsberry likes this.
    08-21-13 11:54 PM
  22. Josh Brolin's Avatar
    This is so asinine . Us trolls would tell you guys 90% of bb world apps are junk and we got ignored. Now that bbry is good as dead finallly the truth is being debated but its now too late. The longs kept quiet because thors words made them money. Now the stocks falling again all of a sudden everyones calling him out. The irony is the shorts speak the truth and bbrys own ceo is misleading
    08-22-13 12:04 AM
  23. SlcCorrado's Avatar
    48,000 apps by one developer S4BB?

    See for yourselves search for S4BB:


    BlackBerry World - Search Results


    If this true there could be jail time here. I would love know how many $10000 or other cash rewards S4BB were awarded?

    The deceit at Blackberry is starting to unravel. It's appalling.
    Jail time??? O.k. buddy

    S4BB has been around for a long time. Those 48k apps are not all BB10. Those are ALL BlackBerry apps
    08-22-13 12:09 AM
  24. ryanza's Avatar
    Obviously the reward makes the situation a bit different but it wasn't too long ago when I read that some research company discovered that a large proportion of apps on the Apple app store were "zombies", I think that's what the called them. Out of the many millions of apps only a small proportion are download regularly with many only download once or twice. Apple do not mention this when they claim the largest app store and it's rapidly growing number of apps.

    If I'm not mistaken, in order for apps to qualify for the reward from BlackBerry they need to conform to certain standards and offer some BB10 specific features. If the bulk of these apps do not meet the reward criteria and are really only there to fill the BlackBerry App World I see no problem at all. If these apps are useless and are just looking to cash in on the reward without adding value then I think something needs to be done about this.
    08-22-13 12:15 AM
  25. mset's Avatar
    Jail time??? O.k. buddy
    I realize that online hyperbole can stretch pretty thin, but in this case, are you saying that the team in charge of disbursements didn't know that paying out $84,000,000 to one guy who created 47,000 apps was a travesty and that claiming that those 47,000 apps were actually a selling point (which they did) isn't misleading investors?

    Because if that's what you're claiming, I'd suggest you take a second to think about it. Any one of us would know that if one guy creates 7500 apps, something is wrong, and someone is getting mislead. If one guy creates 12,000 apps, it's a joke. 47,000? That could easily be a court case.
    edwinsberry likes this.
    08-22-13 12:17 AM
97 123 ...

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