07-08-13 04:32 PM
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  1. szlevi's Avatar
    Actually WP8 has a lot of the major apps and the OS is awesome. I bought a WP7 when it first came out and returned it for an Android after a week. It was definitely not ready back then. But when WP8 came out I tested a Lumia 920 at the local AT&T shop I jumped to it right away. WP8 is a huge improvement; hubs rock, live tiles rock, tons of apps, great OS,, great hardware and performance.

    BBs problem isn't all about poor marketing, the main problem is it didn't really bring anything new to the table. Sad but true.
    Actually WP is an utter pile of mess, it took 3 versions of non-upgradable generations to get to a fairly reasonable level aka v8 - and yet despite being practically free (most Lumias are sold with zero money down), UI is very harsh, absolutely annoying for anyone coming from Android, iOS or BBOS and you can see it on the sales, despite MS' BILLIONS sales are still utter ****, nothing better than BB with no money back.

    Sent from my LT30p using CB Forums mobile app
    grover5 likes this.
    07-01-13 02:41 PM
  2. Edward in Toronto's Avatar
    Of course the end is near, how can one expect BB to survive. BB10 was supposed to save BB and it's a complete failure.
    Aren't you kind of exaggerating? It's not a complete failure Z10 is doing ok and it just 1 of 5 new products, Q10 is still rolling out, Q5 is just starting, A10 is coming. Revenue is up. It'll take a year before you can make a judgment call on BB10.
    dusdal likes this.
    07-01-13 02:45 PM
  3. russworman's Avatar
    WP8 has predictive text also. You don't flick it, but it still provides predictive text. As for 8 apps simultaneously, I'm not certain what you mean? WP allows multiple apps to run also. Sorry if I burst your bubble man. Maybe BB can rebound, but overall, WP8 is going up in usage because people prefer it over other mobile phone OSs, not because MS has some awesome marketing strategy. In fact, MS is known for their pretty ****-poor marketing.
    Predictive text without flicking proves my point that it is not available on other platforms. Flicking is unique to BlackBerry. Can you visit a dedicated screen next to your app grid to see and switch active apps? My understanding is that you hold the back button and then the active apps icons pop up so you can select the one you want. All you need to do on BlackBerry 10 is just swipe up and out of a app which puts you in the app grid where you can see active apps with the frames displaying information from the app (developer chooses what is displayed here)... my bubble is not busted...

    Posted via CB10
    07-01-13 02:45 PM
  4. anon1727506's Avatar
    For comparison...

    IPhone sold 1.3 million phones in the first two quarters it was available

    The first Android phone the G1 sold a million in about six months

    The Windows Phone platform sold 3.3 million in the first two quarters of sales

    BlackBerry has sold 2.7 million BlackBerry 10 phones in one quarter

    I think it will take more time to see if BlackBerry 10 becomes popular and anyone expecting huge instant results from a completely new platform may be disappointed.

    The good news is that they still have 3.1 million in the bank and are not in danger of going out of business any time soon!



    Posted via CB10
    The smartphone market was TOTAL different when iPhone and Android came out... they changed it out from under BlackBerry.

    iPhone was totally different user experience from what we taught a smartphone was, and Android was just a cheap way to try to get that iPhone experience (if Apple had release a "value" iPhone back then we might not even be talking about Android today.) While the BB10 platform is new, it isn't revolutionary in any way. But the key is it doesn't enrich the users experience at all over existing devices - right now with it's feeble ecosystem it actual hinders a users experience. So even IF the price drops, even if they release a phone with "super" hardware, even IF the OS matures and they get the bugs worked out, and even if they add a few big named apps. At what point does BB10 become a mainstream platform - Windows still hasn't and they are a lot further along and have much more that 3 Billion to spend. Plus their platform includes Tablets, Computer and Smartphones.
    07-01-13 02:46 PM
  5. 21stNow's Avatar
    Did not know that Windows Phone, Android, iPhone had active frames with the ability to run eight apps simultaneously? What about the predictive keyboard with flicking of words?

    Posted via CB10
    To the average user, the keyboard on the Z10 is not that different from the SwiftKey keyboard. The difference here is that if you don't like the keyboard on the Z10, you are stuck with it, versus you have other choices on Android. I don't think that most non-CrackBerry visitors will consider this a huge advantage.

    Also to the average user, the multi-tasking on the BB10 devices isn't greatly superior to the multi-tasking available on the other platforms. Many people just don't do that many different things on their phones in the first place to rate multi-tasking high on their lists.
    thekonger likes this.
    07-01-13 02:47 PM
  6. lcjr's Avatar
    I agree. When you buy a Z10/Q10 and go wow this is a great phone and then the world yawns and moves on, you have to ask yourself WTH is wrong with BlackBerry.

    Consider that the general public knows NOTHING about T. Heins, or the dual CEO's or the delays or the fact that BB10 is not hitting the PlayBook, or that 10.1 still isn't out on Verizon. All the stuff that gets argued on CB is pretty much irrelevant when it comes to Joe Consumer buying or not buying a BlackBerry. People just simply don't care.
    Yep, and what Joe Average does know is only what he's heard from others. Blackberry has a bad image right now and TH is making it worse. I'm glad they fired their last PR team and can't wait to see what the new team brings. Right now Blackberry needs all the help it can get with changing it's image. Late launches??? Why even give a date when you know you won't make it?? I'm a supporter, but come on now... TH took over in January 2012 and today Blackberry still has the same management issues. We know a turn-around company needs time, but after a year you should show progress. Today the SP is lower than it was a year ago, that's not progress.
    07-01-13 02:48 PM
  7. not biased's Avatar
    Kevin oleary did an excellent summary on his show yesterday, CBC, about bb. Please
    Take the time to listen to his thoughts of rim going forward, especially about
    His Verizon store visit in Boston. He said the managers are saying the q10,
    Not the z10 is selling very well. Might just need more time...
    07-01-13 02:55 PM
  8. russworman's Avatar
    For comparison (US only):

    The iPhone launched with service only on one US carrier, and it was an unsubsidized device. Not everyone wanted to spend $500 on a phone, especially in the recession year of 2007.

    The G1 launched on one carrier, which was the smallest national carrier in the US.

    BlackBerry launched on three US carriers (including the two largest) with subsidized pricing.

    That shipped figure of 2.7 million BB10 devices should have been possible in the US alone, as that would have represented less than 1% of all active devices in the US.
    Still doesn't change statistics... technology is constantly evolving.

    Posted via CB10
    07-01-13 02:55 PM
  9. NYC10065's Avatar
    I agree, Q10 is only to carry over legacy users, it won't woo any Android or iPS user which should be the #1 goal.
    That being said Q10 is important because it can stabilize the otherwise dwindling revenue stream BB is enjoying from the sales of older devices and simplifies support.
    Agree that the Q10's purpose is legacy BB user retention. I am a perfect example of that. I wanted very much to try and love BB10. The issue here though is that for every BB legacy user like me that is willing to go to the new BBOS, there are far more who are leaving BB altogether (hence the net 5% reduction in BB users in the quarter). What I've heard from BB7 users is since BB is forcing a new OS on to them with all the missing legacy BB pieces, they might as well go for something entirely new and more successful (ie. iOS or Android). One of my clients is a major North American law firm and their partners have switched almost en masse away from BB towards iOS (75%) or Android (25%). I used to pin many of the firm's partners but I am down to 3 partners now that still have their BBs and of the 3, 1 bought a Q10 and hates it while the other 2 are actively considering other devices.

    This is pure idiocy - by this measure market has rejected Android for 2+ years... typical clueless loudmouthed armchair "analyst" nonsense.
    I think the OP was referring to the rejection of BB10 as opposed to the rejection of larger screen sizes. The rejection of BB10, at least during its (critical) launch phase is indisputable given the pathetic shipment (not sales) figures for BB10 devices. One analyst estimated that of the 2.7 million BB10 devices shipped in the quarter, only about 2.3 million were sold. The reason why the analyst was forced to make an estimate is because BBRY refused to disclose the proportion of shipped devices that were actually sold. If true, 2.3 million devices sold has reduced the Z10 to a collector's item because despite all the carrier support and subsidies, it still can't attract consumer demand.
    07-01-13 02:58 PM
  10. russworman's Avatar
    To the average user, the keyboard on the Z10 is not that different from the SwiftKey keyboard. The difference here is that if you don't like the keyboard on the Z10, you are stuck with it, versus you have other choices on Android. I don't think that most non-CrackBerry visitors will consider this a huge advantage.

    Also to the average user, the multi-tasking on the BB10 devices isn't greatly superior to the multi-tasking available on the other platforms. Many people just don't do that many different things on their phones in the first place to rate multi-tasking high on their lists.
    The fact that the average person does not notice these features because they have not looked at the device does not take away from the uniqueness or innovation.

    Posted via CB10
    07-01-13 02:59 PM
  11. russworman's Avatar
    Make it Billion
    Fixed... Thank you

    Posted via CB10
    07-01-13 02:59 PM
  12. NYC10065's Avatar
    Kevin oleary did an excellent summary on his show yesterday, CBC, about bb. Please
    Take the time to listen to his thoughts of rim going forward, especially about
    His Verizon store visit in Boston. He said the managers are saying the q10,
    Not the z10 is selling very well. Might just need more time...
    The Q10 is selling well to whom? If "well" is in comparison to the Z10 then I'd take that with a grain of salt since Z10 sales have been so pathetic.

    If the Q10 market is, as has been widely acknowledged, almost exclusive to existing BB users who are being convinced to try it out and this was BEFORE the announcement of a new flagship BB7 device then that market has an absolute ceiling so expect those sales to dry up as contract renewals come to pass and people opt for the product they know (a new BB7 flagship device) vs the product they don't.
    07-01-13 03:03 PM
  13. xanadome's Avatar
    This maybe what TH has been gunning for all along.
    I totally agree with this assessment. It has always been my suspicion.
    Ever since Heins took over the helm, the talk of licensing or selling of the business was never too far away from him. I believe he was elected as a CEO to accomplish this task. Everything BBRY did to date has been tailored to condition the company for possible buyers. Clearing the remaining PB inventory is another example. Even the BB10 platform, while it is half-baked, certainly demonstrated it is for real, although none of major companies would be interested in licensing the BB10.
    And don't forget, RIM did hire a couple of investment bankers early on when Heins took over in order to assess "all" possibilities. Any time a corporation brings in investment bankers, you know what's going on.

    I may be reading too much into this, but the very low stock value, a large amount of cash etc. is making BBRY a near ideal take-over target. But I do not think that the company as a whole is attractive to anybody, except possibly some intellectual properties (patents etc).
    kevinnugent likes this.
    07-01-13 03:06 PM
  14. bp3dots's Avatar
    Predictive text without flicking proves my point that it is not available on other platforms. Flicking is unique to BlackBerry.
    Flicking being unique isn't necessarily a value add. Its just different. Does it make a difference to the average Joe? Why would it, when the prediction is just as good on Swiftkey, couretsy of the same engine?

    Can you visit a dedicated screen next to your app grid to see and switch active apps? My understanding is that you hold the back button and then the active apps icons pop up so you can select the one you want. All you need to do on BlackBerry 10 is just swipe up and out of a app which puts you in the app grid where you can see active apps with the frames displaying information from the app (developer chooses what is displayed here)... my bubble is not busted...Posted via CB10
    Again, different, not necessarily better. One swipe vs a long hold (which is just a second or so) isn't a big deal. Now compare an active frame vs a full widget, which can be hopped to by one touch of the home button, and has actual interactive functionality.

    Still doesn't change statistics... technology is constantly evolving. Posted via CB10
    Pure data with no context will only lead you to a flawed argument.
    07-01-13 03:08 PM
  15. NYC10065's Avatar
    The fact that the average person does not notice these features because they have not looked at the device does not take away from the uniqueness or innovation.
    You're absolutely correct but the fact that the average consumer doesn't notice or care to notice means that BBRY can claim all the innovation and uniqueness it wants, it won't amount to many sales. I can't count the number of times I've heard BB fanboys say "oh, but can the iPhone do X?" In the end, Apple sold more iPhone 5's in one weekend that BBRY sold BB10 devices in 3 whole months. Proof that all the claims of superior x, y, z don't amount to a hill of beans when it comes to consumer sales. Does that mean the consumer is ignorant or, worse, stupid? No. It means that Apple (or Samsung) have been able to successfully market to consumers while BBRY has failed. BBRY tried hard to out-Apple Apple and out-Samsung Samsung -- in doing so, it failed to attract large numbers of iOS/Android users (contrary to the B.S. coming from Waterloo) while also failing to keep legacy BB users interested.
    thekonger likes this.
    07-01-13 03:10 PM
  16. cwalt2166's Avatar
    Exactly. It's nothing new.

    Posted via CB10
    Blackberry's market position has also been deteriorating badly for some time now. Sadly that means the articles are closer to, not further from the truth about BB death.
    07-01-13 03:11 PM
  17. Wiki Cydia's Avatar
    Pure data with no context will only lead you to a flawed argument.
    Exactly. Context does matter.
    07-01-13 03:13 PM
  18. Kris Erickson's Avatar
    :
    [*]BE HONEST to your loyal customers! If you try and pull the wool over the eyes of BlackBerry customers, there may be no customers left.[*]Don't release a half-baked product - whether it's software, hardware or OS, DO NOT offer a product unless it's 100% ready.[*]Do some testing! - make sure each product is tested THOROUGHLY before you put it on sale - another bad launch and it's only downhill from there[/LIST]
    .
    Yet you say
    Failing to deliver BlackBerry 10 last year is a MAJOR problem
    So you say they took 2 years to release BB10 yet you state they should not release a half-baked product.. Can you imagine the ******** you would be doing if they released BB10 last year? They took an extra year and practically got most of the bugs out and you still complain.
    07-01-13 03:19 PM
  19. russworman's Avatar
    Exactly. Context does matter.
    The point behind the comparison, and this should put it into context, is that the platforms mentioned were completely new just like the BlackBerry 10 platform. Sales were not stellar at first and it took time for the platforms to get traction...

    Posted via CB10
    07-01-13 03:20 PM
  20. taylorblackberry's Avatar
    Blackberry aint going anywhere soon. And again the faith of the company lies in our hands
    BBVegasGirl80 likes this.
    07-01-13 03:22 PM
  21. xanadome's Avatar
    I'm thinking one more quarter is needed to see if BB is still on the long slide down or recovery.
    Didn't Heins already said in the ER, rather preemptively, that the next quarter may still be bad, or worse?. When CEO said something like that, they of course knew something we did not know.

    Another thing that did not show up in the ER was the rate of device returns. Forum like this is naturally very skewed, but I sense that the return of BB10 devices by dissatisfied customers might be significantly larger than normal. So, the true sell-through figure might be much lower than the apparent sales numbers.

    I suppose Heins already know this, which must have led to his warning that the next quarter would be poor as well. In other words, BBRY already acknowledged the irreversible "trend" from which they determined that they would not be able to recover.
    kevinnugent likes this.
    07-01-13 03:27 PM
  22. BerryOs's Avatar
    Bitter facts I ordered blackberry milkshake

    Posted via CB10
    07-01-13 03:28 PM
  23. BellaKing's Avatar
    The issue for BBY is no longer how good or bad their latest devices are. It is that they have lost momentum. The market is not going to be defined by us BBY lovers; it is by the masses who value the richer iOS eco-system and lower cost Android devices (with a less rich eco-system than iOS but still richer than BBY). BB10 offers nothing compelling to the masses. The pluses we love and talk about here are not of much consequence to your average consumer. We can call them iSheep or whatever but that is not going to make the problem go away.

    The management over hyped and under delivered. BB10 was a technical achievement but tech history is littered with 'better' technical products that lost because the momentum was not with them. Sorry, but the fat lady is on the stage warming up. It is mission impossible here. BBY has to face reality. It is not going to survive as a smart phone player against iOS and Android. The company has value but not as a going concern.

    Breaks my heart. But it is what it is.
    Timothy Cox and Geeoff like this.
    07-01-13 03:29 PM
  24. bp3dots's Avatar
    The point behind the comparison, and this should put it into context, is that the platforms mentioned were completely new just like the BlackBerry 10 platform. Sales were not stellar at first and it took time for the platforms to get traction...

    Posted via CB10
    Wrong. BB had 70+ Million users to reach out to for adoption on the new OS. Much like WP had previous users (and they were the only one in the list you posted to have more sales that BB in that initial period.)
    21stNow likes this.
    07-01-13 03:29 PM
  25. smoothrunnings's Avatar
    End may be near for BlackBerry - Jul. 1, 2013

    Now things have gotten real. BBRY is now a takeover target. So much for a fun ride.
    Well what do you expect with big corporations owning the media outlets and deciding what people should hear on TV and in the news papers? I suspect they want BBRY (RIM) to fail and it looks if though they will get their wishes very soon!
    07-01-13 03:32 PM
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