07-08-13 04:32 PM
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  1. tstrike34's Avatar
    Yet. The headline doesn't match the last line.
    So its either Chinese water-torture or death by one thousand cuts... Either way.. its gonna hurt real bad.
    07-01-13 01:16 PM
  2. NYC10065's Avatar
    They also launched during an iPhone gap. The iPhone 5 was out in November (yes, it is terrible and everyone hates it - and they sell more in one week than BB did in three months). Once another iPhone comes out, it will cause more issues for BB. Since the buzz over the Z10 (mostly on this board) has subsided and never got started for the Q10, that poses another challenge.
    A Forbes article mentioned that the iPhone 5S is 12 weeks or so away with the iPhone Light (cheaper version) rumored to come out a few weeks thereafter with both timed for the pre-Christmas sales period. You can bet the buzz for those models will be massive along with the inevitable buzz for iOS7. That on top of the Samsung Galaxy S4 Mini which is generating buzz right now and you can just imagine the challenge BBRY has just to get noticed.

    Just compare how Apple manages their product launches. They keep quiet, plan and maintain a sense of mystery but when they launch, they launch big generating huge buzz, excitement and queues at all their retail stores. Whether you like Apple or not, whether their shares are up or down or above or below $400, the buzz they generate can't be underestimated. Contrast that with BBRY where you see the Z10 launch this spring and a pathetic roll out then, in the midst of all the hype, you have the CEO come out and say "wait until we launch even more, better products later this year" (leaving people scratching their heads -- "do we buy the latest flagship device or do we wait for the latest and even greatest?") then you see the sad situation of the CEO grasping at straws and blurting out in an analyst call that a new BB7 flagship device is also being launched later this year (leaving people scratching their heads yet again -- "do we switch to the Q10 or do we wait for the newer BB7 flagship device").

    The bumbling, bungling, ham fisted way in which BBRY manages these product launches is laughable. And that doesn't even call into question the overall performance and quality of the devices they launch. In other words, rather than controlling their destiny, BBRY just keeps going from blunder to blunder and bungle to bungle. No wonder people have lost faith.
    Last edited by NYC10065; 07-01-13 at 02:24 PM. Reason: typo -- quite vs quiet
    07-01-13 01:24 PM
  3. msps's Avatar
    Consumers aren't going to buy a product with the assumption that it will mature and get better. A smartphone isn't a bottle of wine that get more valuable as it ages.

    It either does what they want or they return it and get something that does.
    There's a lot of playbook and BB10 owners around here who did just that.
    Who will never do it again
    21stNow likes this.
    07-01-13 01:26 PM
  4. TBone4eva's Avatar
    The problem is two fold.

    1. BBOS10 phones aren't selling as well as expected by some analysts.

    2. Smartphones rarely get better sales over time. It's either rack it up from the beginning or nothing.
    I agree. They do have the Q5 launching now and then the A10 later this year to get another sales boost. Another quarter will tell us how the Q5 is doing. I'm sure BB would rather sale a ton of Z10s and Q10s with the higher mark ups, but the developing markets have been where most of the sales for BB have been strongest anyway so if the Q5 takes off, good. If not, then that is really bad news.
    07-01-13 01:29 PM
  5. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    Oh ...the end is near ?



    Don't you guys think Sid looks like ...
    theclipart and tstrike34 like this.
    07-01-13 01:30 PM
  6. gillaz's Avatar
    This is exactly it. The market has rejected them. Yes the OS has it's issues but not more so than WP8 for example. Real shame because is actually quite good
    how has there been problem with WP8?. You not seen Kandar and IDC market share results??? Clearly
    The issues u R talking about aren't effecting sales. 12 months ago BB had 4 times the marketshare than
    WP in Europe. Now WP has 2.5 times as many customers. And that includes figures from UK, which is
    Supposedly big seller of BB
    07-01-13 01:39 PM
  7. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    A Forbes article mentioned that the iPhone 5S is 12 weeks or so away with the iPhone Light (cheaper version) rumored to come out a few weeks thereafter with both timed for the pre-Christmas sales period. You can bet the buzz for those models will be massive along with the inevitable buzz for iOS7. That on top of the Samsung Galaxy S4 Mini which is generating buzz right now and you can just imagine the challenge BBRY has just to get noticed.

    Just compare how Apple manages their product launches. They keep quite, plan and maintain a sense of mystery but when they launch, they launch big generating huge buzz, excitement and queues at all their retail stores. Whether you like Apple or not, whether their shares are up or down or above or below $400, the buzz they generate can't be underestimated. Contrast that with BBRY where you see the Z10 launch this spring and a pathetic roll out then, in the midst of all the hype, you have the CEO come out and say "wait until we launch even more, greater products later this year" (leaving people scratching their heads -- "do we buy the flagship device or do we wait for the latest and greatest?") then you see the sad situation of the CEO grasping at straws and blurting out in an analyst call that a new BB7 flagship device is also being launched later this year (leaving people scratching their heads yet again -- "do we switch to the Q10 or do we wait for the flagship device").

    The bumbling, bungling, ham fisted way in which BBRY manages these product launches is laughable. And that doesn't even call into question the overall performance and quality of the devices they launch. In other words, rather than controlling their destiny, BBRY just keeps going from blunder to blunder and bungle to bungle. No wonder people have lost faith.
    Well said.

    Apple isn't perfect, but they do have a reputation for top-notch execution. Few botched launched promises, and Some knows how to control info leaks.

    If it ain't ready, it most likely won't be added in. And when stuff like the maps debacle does occur, heads roll.
    NYC10065 likes this.
    07-01-13 01:51 PM
  8. gr8ocguy's Avatar
    I haven't posted much here, because I just came to learn amazing things about my BB. I didn't really have anything to add to the expertise that is represented here on CB.com. But, I believe I represent a significant number of ]regular-joe] BB users and thought I'd present some of my opinions, from 'just a guy' who has loved his BB's.

    I've been a huge fan of BB for years. I owned their phones since the early days. I always felt they were solid, professional and productive devices AND they actually allowed you to make and receive phone calls! I've never had a problem with my BB and I was an early adopter of the Playbook and currently own the Z10. I invested in BBRY stock and was confident they were a solid company. That is, until the Playbook launch. Then I started to feel a bit uneasy.

    While many posters here have truly solid reasons for the ongoing success of BB, unfortunately, the regular people out there, not on Crackberry, know absolutely nothing about BB10 here in the US. I've only run across 1 person who was using a Z10 since day one of their release. I live in So CA, so it's not like I am in a remote area... Here's my bottom line:

    The BB brand, whether justified or not, has been so severely damaged, I don't believe they can do anything to stop the current momentum downward (at least in the US). .I hate to say it, but the only comment I hear on my use of a BB from clients and friends is, "you must be the last person using a BB'....or some similar variation. Whether I show them how amazing the OS is, the beautiful form, the ability to load Android apps or any other of the positive attributes, they just don't accept it. The general response I am faced with daily, based upon my unscientific survey, is that BB is dead. The brand value is gone.

    Next, the product launches have been non-existent. Whether it's the carrier's fault or not, the launches have been invisible to 'regular joe's' and BB should have been positioned to blast this latest launch (not just a single confusing Superbowl commercial or aligning with Alecia Keys). The BB brand was further damaged...

    Next, last week's report was the final straw for me. It has nothing to do with the quality of the latest phones. It has to do with the lack of transparency, integrity and the failure to execute virtually any of the objectives announced last year by BB. I feel TH was disingenuous at best, or just downright misleading when he clearly stated several commitments last year and earlier this year and failed to achieve any of them.. I don't need to rehash those (lack of native apps, OS10 for playbook, etc.) . I also felt he was uncharacteristically dodgy during the latest call and avoided serious questions from participants. It gave me a bad feeling, after seeing him present a confident front previously, this shift, gave me a very uncomfortable feeling.

    Finally, from a business perspective, anything BB decides to do to revive the brand, will cost a huge amount of cash. Their cash on hand and lack of any debt, always seemed like it represented a company serious about business. What I didn't realize, was that the 'gain' presented during the recent call, in cash position, was solely due to a 'one time' tax refund. Again, I feel TH and the CFO were both dodgy about communicating the true picture (which may be good for avoiding stock analysts issues, but not so much for us 'regular folks'...).

    Again, I have loved my BB over the years and will continue to use my Z10 for the foreseeable future, but I just sold all shares of BBRY this a.m. for a major loss and will not purchase another BB again. I have no idea what I will move to, as I truly don't care for any of the options out there, but I will move. It's a sad day for me...just a regular Joe.....
    07-01-13 01:52 PM
  9. tre10's Avatar
    WP8 still doesn't have all the major apps either and according to some people over on WPCentral it still lacks in some areas. The difference is MS has money for a huge advertising push and to continue pushing WP till it succeeds. BBRY ain't so fortunate.
    07-01-13 01:54 PM
  10. theclipart's Avatar
    Oh ...the end is near ?



    Don't you guys think Sid looks like ...
    oh my god...how i LOVE this clip!!! havent seen it in YEARS! thank you superfly!
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    07-01-13 02:01 PM
  11. russworman's Avatar
    For comparison...

    IPhone sold 1.3 million phones in the first two quarters it was available

    The first Android phone the G1 sold a million in about six months

    The Windows Phone platform sold 3.3 million in the first two quarters of sales

    BlackBerry has sold 2.7 million BlackBerry 10 phones in one quarter

    I think it will take more time to see if BlackBerry 10 becomes popular and anyone expecting huge instant results from a completely new platform may be disappointed.

    The good news is that they still have 3.1 BILLION in the bank and are not in danger of going out of business any time soon!



    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by russworman; 07-01-13 at 02:35 PM.
    Jahcure, Murundum and lcgoldman like this.
    07-01-13 02:12 PM
  12. thekonger's Avatar
    WP8 still doesn't have all the major apps either and according to some people over on WPCentral it still lacks in some areas. The difference is MS has money for a huge advertising push and to continue pushing WP till it succeeds. BBRY ain't so fortunate.
    Actually WP8 has a lot of the major apps and the OS is awesome. I bought a WP7 when it first came out and returned it for an Android after a week. It was definitely not ready back then. But when WP8 came out I tested a Lumia 920 at the local AT&T shop I jumped to it right away. WP8 is a huge improvement; hubs rock, live tiles rock, tons of apps, great OS,, great hardware and performance.

    BBs problem isn't all about poor marketing, the main problem is it didn't really bring anything new to the table. Sad but true.
    07-01-13 02:12 PM
  13. 21stNow's Avatar
    I think you have nailed it. Your HTC example is perfect. Probably the best phone on the market, but can't budge against Samsung. Meanwhile all the HTC execs are jumping ship.

    I've read many of the threads on this topic today. The tone and groundswell is not good, and remember where and who we are, the absolute hard core of Blackberry users!!

    Bbry is not dead, but it may be time to start thinking about a rest home for the old dear.
    Hopefully, my post won't be too far off-topic, but it is relevant to the general "feeling" that is prevalent in this thread. There are many reasons that HTC can't rise against Samsung's dominance in the way that they would like to. There are enough people who had past personal experiences with HTC devices that looked good, but performed poorly, to put a dent in demand. Add to this the number of people who knew someone with an EVO 4G, who only witnessed the fact that the EVO owner could never be too far away from a charger, you have a significant dent in demand.

    HTC is known to make mistakes with their products and to keep repeating those mistakes. The bad Wi-Fi antenna placement that plagued the Desire/Sensation/Amaze line is one example of this. The Sense overlay is also a resource hog that is worse than Touchwiz. I heard that Sense 5 is supposed to be better. I haven't tried it, but I heard that same line about Sense 4 over Sense 3 and it wasn't true then.

    I think that this is relevant because some loyal BlackBerry customers are starting to feel like promises are made that aren't kept, that the company is not listening to the consumers, and both of these lead to a lack of trust from the consumers when the time comes for that next purchase.
    07-01-13 02:17 PM
  14. russworman's Avatar
    Actually WP8 has a lot of the major apps and the OS is awesome. I bought a WP7 when it first came out and returned it for an Android after a week. It was definitely not ready back then. But when WP8 came out I tested a Lumia 920 at the local AT&T shop I jumped to it right away. WP8 is a huge improvement; hubs rock, live tiles rock, tons of apps, great OS,, great hardware and performance.

    BBs problem isn't all about poor marketing, the main problem is it didn't really bring anything new to the table. Sad but true.
    Did not know that Windows Phone, Android, iPhone had active frames with the ability to run eight apps simultaneously? What about the predictive keyboard with flicking of words?

    Posted via CB10
    07-01-13 02:19 PM
  15. southlander's Avatar
    Fix the problems with BB10? That's the problem! BB10 doesn't have huge problems. It is a really good OS. This is much worse, it is a rejection of the platform in the marketplace. A software update won't fix that. I'm not sure what could fix it.

    Posted via CB10
    I agree. When you buy a Z10/Q10 and go wow this is a great phone and then the world yawns and moves on, you have to ask yourself WTH is wrong with BlackBerry.

    Consider that the general public knows NOTHING about T. Heins, or the dual CEO's or the delays or the fact that BB10 is not hitting the PlayBook, or that 10.1 still isn't out on Verizon. All the stuff that gets argued on CB is pretty much irrelevant when it comes to Joe Consumer buying or not buying a BlackBerry. People just simply don't care.
    NYC10065 and kevinnugent like this.
    07-01-13 02:24 PM
  16. eilegz's Avatar
    blackberry its not even trying, seriously look at the price of z10 and q10 vs galaxy s4 or any android flagship, not only it cost more than android phones but its lower specs, nothing special other than BBM and bad ecosystem.

    If they wanted to try harder they should look at nokia, selling more ranges of phones competitive priced.
    NYC10065 likes this.
    07-01-13 02:24 PM
  17. szlevi's Avatar
    If you think that the Q10 -- which says nothing more to the market other than "Hey, you can still get one of those 2008-style BlackBerry QWERTY phones" -- is somehow going to reverse what's going on here, I would very much like to partake of what you are smoking.
    I agree, Q10 is only to carry over legacy users, it won't woo any Android or iPS user which should be the #1 goal.
    That being said Q10 is important because it can stabilize the otherwise dwindling revenue stream BB is enjoying from the sales of older devices and simplifies support.

    Nor is the A10 going to change BBRY's market fortunes. It's just a Z10 with a 5" screen. The market has rejected the platform, and BBRY is either going to soldier on as a tiny niche player lumped in the category of "Other" or its going to be sold for parts.
    This is pure idiocy - by this measure market has rejected Android for 2+ years... typical clueless loudmouthed armchair "analyst" nonsense.

    BB needs much quicker execution (10.2 rollout, A10 c), polished key features (Android 4.2.2, direct on-device loading instead of lame sideloading etc) and a far more aggressive sales strategy.
    Action of window is getting shorter every day but I think BB know that...

    Sent from my LT30p using CB Forums mobile app
    07-01-13 02:29 PM
  18. thekonger's Avatar
    Did not know that Windows Phone, Android, iPhone had active frames with the ability to run eight apps simultaneously? What about the predictive keyboard with flicking of words?

    Posted via CB10
    WP8 has predictive text also. You don't flick it, but it still provides predictive text. As for 8 apps simultaneously, I'm not certain what you mean? WP allows multiple apps to run also. Sorry if I burst your bubble man. Maybe BB can rebound, but overall, WP8 is going up in usage because people prefer it over other mobile phone OSs, not because MS has some awesome marketing strategy. In fact, MS is known for their pretty ****-poor marketing.
    07-01-13 02:30 PM
  19. Supa_Fly1's Avatar
    Also MS has other platforms that are being unified in the layout and common feature set ... Gaming Platform and Desktop which are HIGHLY successful ... Sony is doing the same with their Gaming and Internet Services offering and Media content. Apple ... Desktop and Services ... Google ... pure services both on mobile and desktop ....

    BlackBerry doesn't have the obvious scalable tie-ins to the "average Joe". This will also get them into hot water when they need to look at financing a major long/short term loans ... and I don't see this as THEIR fault but with Morgan Stanley (I think they where involved in the restructuring along with) & BMO!!
    07-01-13 02:30 PM
  20. eilegz's Avatar
    Hopefully, my post won't be too far off-topic, but it is relevant to the general "feeling" that is prevalent in this thread. There are many reasons that HTC can't rise against Samsung's dominance in the way that they would like to. There are enough people who had past personal experiences with HTC devices that looked good, but performed poorly, to put a dent in demand. Add to this the number of people who knew someone with an EVO 4G, who only witnessed the fact that the EVO owner could never be too far away from a charger, you have a significant dent in demand.

    HTC is known to make mistakes with their products and to keep repeating those mistakes. The bad Wi-Fi antenna placement that plagued the Desire/Sensation/Amaze line is one example of this. The Sense overlay is also a resource hog that is worse than Touchwiz. I heard that Sense 5 is supposed to be better. I haven't tried it, but I heard that same line about Sense 4 over Sense 3 and it wasn't true then.

    I think that this is relevant because some loyal BlackBerry customers are starting to feel like promises are made that aren't kept, that the company is not listening to the consumers, and both of these lead to a lack of trust from the consumers when the time comes for that next purchase.
    HTC have its own issues, blackberry its in better shape because they expanded to new markets, but HTC only focus on asia and the US....

    Blackberry learned their lesson and expanded to india, latin america and other emergent markets..... The problem its that samsung expanded to those region too and galaxy brand its now more known and it offer more than blackberry its offering at a lower price.

    Without a good pricing and decent proposition they are just not competitive, you cant expect to sell a bb10 phone at higher price than a flagship samsung phone, i really hope that q5 its a good priced bb10
    07-01-13 02:32 PM
  21. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    The good news is that they still have 3.1 million in the bank and are not in danger of going out of business any time soon!
    Make it Billion
    dusdal and russworman like this.
    07-01-13 02:32 PM
  22. njblackberry's Avatar
    WP8 has predictive text also. You don't flick it, but it still provides predictive text. As for 8 apps simultaneously, I'm not certain what you mean? WP allows multiple apps to run also. Sorry if I burst your bubble man. Maybe BB can rebound, but overall, WP8 is going up in usage because people prefer it over other mobile phone OSs, not because MS has some awesome marketing strategy. In fact, MS is known for their pretty ****-poor marketing.
    WP8 doesn't have Peak and Flow. Marketing buzzwords if there ever were any.
    07-01-13 02:33 PM
  23. greggebhardt's Avatar
    blackberry its not even trying, seriously look at the price of z10 and q10 vs galaxy s4 or any android flagship, not only it cost more than android phones but its lower specs, nothing special other than BBM and bad ecosystem.

    If they wanted to try harder they should look at nokia, selling more ranges of phones competitive priced.
    Nokia is going broke.
    07-01-13 02:33 PM
  24. 21stNow's Avatar
    For comparison...

    IPhone sold 1.3 million phones in the first two quarters it was available

    The first Android phone the G1 sold a million in about six months

    The Windows Phone platform sold 3.3 million in the first two quarters of sales

    BlackBerry has sold 2.7 million BlackBerry 10 phones in one quarter

    I think it will take more time to see if BlackBerry 10 becomes popular and anyone expecting huge instant results from a completely new platform may be disappointed.

    The good news is that they still have 3.1 million in the bank and are not in danger of going out of business any time soon!



    Posted via CB10
    For comparison (US only):

    The iPhone launched with service only on one US carrier, and it was an unsubsidized device. Not everyone wanted to spend $500 on a phone, especially in the recession year of 2007.

    The G1 launched on one carrier, which was the smallest national carrier in the US.

    BlackBerry launched on three US carriers (including the two largest) with subsidized pricing.

    That shipped figure of 2.7 million BB10 devices should have been possible in the US alone, as that would have represented less than 1% of all active devices in the US.
    kevinnugent likes this.
    07-01-13 02:37 PM
  25. NYC10065's Avatar
    WP8 still doesn't have all the major apps either and according to some people over on WPCentral it still lacks in some areas. The difference is MS has money for a huge advertising push and to continue pushing WP till it succeeds. BBRY ain't so fortunate.
    Microsoft also has a much broader product catalogue and don't forget, Windows still represents over 90% of desktop operating systems worldwide (source: Net Applications, May 2013). BBRY doesn't have the luxury of a diversified product catalogue. The services business, as has been stated before, has been on the decline for years and we know what the hardware business looks like for BBRY.

    In addition, Samsung is rumored to be planning a shift away from Android (given that Google is now a hardware a competitor) favoring WP. That's a pretty strong endorsement (if true).
    tre10 likes this.
    07-01-13 02:40 PM
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