1. Rickster1's Avatar
    So I see the Canadian Govt is advertising about high rates charged for cell phone plans in Canada. That may be true but it one shops, there are good deals to be found. What I find beyond wierd and twisted is the fact that no one sees to use the same logic of these commercials to other products in the telecom sector! Take Apple iphones as an example. Way higher priced than similar products, some, such as Blackberry, a Canadian product. So, we have our government using taxpayer funds to tell us that they understand and will work at trying to bring down the high cost of our monthly phone costs. Does anyone not see this as twisted? If most Canadians are buying the higher priced Apple iphone on a monthly contract, it should cost them more!! I don't see any Govt advertising trying to get consumers to buy Canadian companies products. In fact, no one seems to care that the bulk of purchases are going to a US based company. Instead, our own govt is basically attacking companies that operate within Canada and provide services to Canadians!! This is bizarre and borders on cannibalism!! Eata your own Also the govt has a website to "protect" us citizens from companies operating in Canada, companies that the govt has ownership restrictions on and that the govt would decide if they can be taken over or not!!! Yet Apple and Samsung, companies outside of Canada are free to come in and charge whatever they want in terms of market prices!! If there are really only TWO companies that provide these products, is this not close to a duopoly??? There are more LARGE telco companies in Canada than there are HANDSET providers!!! And yes, I am a Blackberry supporter but regardless of that, the logic of the govt is twisted and bizarre!! Then there are Consumers!! They don't seem to see any issue with handing over intimate personal information to foreign companies like Apple, Microsoft, Google etc. yet those same consumers have to be threatened with fines and legal action to fill in census forms on behalf of our own govt.!!! Just shows the bizarre thinking and logic that pervades the stupid cattle consumer in Canada!! We deserve what we get, government and consumer. Wait till the screw turns and there are no other options available for handsets but two!! Will there be a general wringing of hands and cries of foul??? Fricking stupid people!!
    12-09-13 02:38 PM
  2. cgk's Avatar
    Paragraphs are your friend.
    12-09-13 02:40 PM
  3. iamagod's Avatar
    Every flagship smartphone is priced in the $650-750 range. Apple and Samsung have the brand power to charge "cattle consumers" more in Canada, US and everywhere else on this planet.

    People are willing to pay more for brands they perceive as better. Welcome to capitalism bud.

    Posted via CB10
    12-09-13 02:47 PM
  4. Rickster1's Avatar
    So you say a "product" is different than a "service" in capitalism? Not sure there is much difference. We have things in the marketplace that are treated differently, for reasons that are unrelated to capitalism. And really, we are in a system that is based on "covenient capitalism" i.e. Auto sector bailout, subsidies to many sectors of the economy, marketing boards that allocate production to regions. Yes, the "free market" is always trotted out when convenient but we are anything but a free market. Consumers need protection from many things, the government decides but not a across the board. No hand wringing that Apple or Samsung control our access to the big bad Telecos that charge us Canadians too much. You miss the point that there is a relationship between costs of handsets and the cost of telco communicaton plans. Let the govt mandate that there should be no contracts and subsidized handset costs. Plan costs would come down for sure but Canadians would think hard before upgrading their handset or even buying one if they had to shell out the cash for said handset. These two things are interrelated in the market place but not when in comes to govenment deciding to take action on one but not the other. And for the paragraph nazi, don't read my post then! Its the internet, a chat site, not the fricking Pulitzer prize nomination site!
    12-09-13 03:21 PM
  5. iamagod's Avatar
    Dude what are you talking about?!? The canadian govt has NO leverage over Apple or Samsung. They do not want to get in any sort of feud or litigation with these companies over pricing - they would look anti-capitalistic and completely out of their mind to the rest of the western world. Apple and Samsung could just tell the cdn govt to F off and threaten to stop selling their phones in this country. They will still make BILLIONS every year because Canada is a very tiny portion of their business. The only losers in that situation would be canadian consumers. Telling a multinational company to reduce the price of goods it sells would never fly in a western capitalistic country.

    On the other hand the telco companies are COMPLETELY dependant on the canadian consumer. They can't tell the canadian govt to shove it, because canada is their ENTIRE business. Unlike Apple and Samsung who have the rest of the world. If they threaten to pull out of Canada, well then they're threatening to commit suicide.

    I don't get why you're defending telco's anyway. The regulations the cdn govt has implemented hasnt reduced your monthly costs from a consumer perspective at all!

    Okay so, now we can't have contracts longer than 3 yrs by govt regulation. All the telco companies did was increase the monthly plan prices for a 2 year contract. We are paying MORE now per month than we used to for pretty much the SAME service. If anything, the new regulations makes the telco companies more money.

    Posted via CB10
    12-09-13 06:34 PM
  6. Rickster1's Avatar
    I have no argument with what you say at all. It is all smoke and mirrors to me. My point is, the Gov of Can is using our taxpaying dollars to basically attack Cdn companies as providing an overpriced services. At the same time, part of the service model is based upon handset prices, which in Apples case, are more expensive that every other mainstream consumer device. Apple handset prices are way more expensive that Samsung, HTC or Blackberry. The price is subsidized by the carriers. So the Gov of Can is saying we, as consumers pay too much for our services when a chunk of that cost is the handset. And to be competitive, most handsets subsidized prices are the same at various levels, i.e. Samsung S4, similar to Apple iphone 5S. Yet the carriers pay more for the 5S than the S4!! And we see nothing wrong with that. I view the whole situation as economic war to a certain extent. Apple and Samsung are providing products yet Apple is being "subsidized" with the pricing model. If the Govt really wanted to help consumers, they could do many other things. For one, they could relate the price of a handset to the price of services. In other words, if you take a contract of a higher prices handset, that has to be reflected in what you pay for your contract. Right now, it is subsidized by other handsets that are lower in value. If your monthly price reflected the price of your choice of handset, that would be fair. I bet we would see lower handset prices as handset companies would also have to compete. Right now Apple, as an example, can still sell to carriers at higher prices and have it subsidized to consumers at the same price as other less expensive handsets. How is that fair? Yes let consumers choose but not on the backs of other consumers.
    12-09-13 09:38 PM
  7. cjcampbell's Avatar
    I have no argument with what you say at all. It is all smoke and mirrors to me. My point is, the Gov of Can is using our taxpaying dollars to basically attack Cdn companies as providing an overpriced services. At the same time, part of the service model is based upon handset prices, which in Apples case, are more expensive that every other mainstream consumer device. Apple handset prices are way more expensive that Samsung, HTC or Blackberry. The price is subsidized by the carriers. So the Gov of Can is saying we, as consumers pay too much for our services when a chunk of that cost is the handset. And to be competitive, most handsets subsidized prices are the same at various levels, i.e. Samsung S4, similar to Apple iphone 5S. Yet the carriers pay more for the 5S than the S4!! And we see nothing wrong with that. I view the whole situation as economic war to a certain extent. Apple and Samsung are providing products yet Apple is being "subsidized" with the pricing model. If the Govt really wanted to help consumers, they could do many other things. For one, they could relate the price of a handset to the price of services. In other words, if you take a contract of a higher prices handset, that has to be reflected in what you pay for your contract. Right now, it is subsidized by other handsets that are lower in value. If your monthly price reflected the price of your choice of handset, that would be fair. I bet we would see lower handset prices as handset companies would also have to compete. Right now Apple, as an example, can still sell to carriers at higher prices and have it subsidized to consumers at the same price as other less expensive handsets. How is that fair? Yes let consumers choose but not on the backs of other consumers.
    You need to break your paragraphs down to say... paragraphs. It's hard to read. I only read the first few sentences but the rates are not due to the subsidized cost of phones. I've changed my plan out of contract and it didn't rise when I added a new phone. It just added the amount of time I needed to be with them. In Canada, the main reason for our higher rates is the vast space between city centres and populous areas. We need to have the same coverage as, say, the US but have a fraction of the paying subs to make it viable. I can appreciate the price, to a point, but am thankful to some of the restrictions placed on the carriers as in the limits and the duration of contracts and the cost of roaming and add on prices to avoid bill shock and possible credit issues that can arise.
    fedakd likes this.
    12-09-13 09:48 PM
  8. iamagod's Avatar
    I have no argument with what you say at all. It is all smoke and mirrors to me. My point is, the Gov of Can is using our taxpaying dollars to basically attack Cdn companies as providing an overpriced services. At the same time, part of the service model is based upon handset prices, which in Apples case, are more expensive that every other mainstream consumer device. Apple handset prices are way more expensive that Samsung, HTC or Blackberry. The price is subsidized by the carriers. So the Gov of Can is saying we, as consumers pay too much for our services when a chunk of that cost is the handset. And to be competitive, most handsets subsidized prices are the same at various levels, i.e. Samsung S4, similar to Apple iphone 5S. Yet the carriers pay more for the 5S than the S4!! And we see nothing wrong with that. I view the whole situation as economic war to a certain extent. Apple and Samsung are providing products yet Apple is being "subsidized" with the pricing model. If the Govt really wanted to help consumers, they could do many other things. For one, they could relate the price of a handset to the price of services. In other words, if you take a contract of a higher prices handset, that has to be reflected in what you pay for your contract. Right now, it is subsidized by other handsets that are lower in value. If your monthly price reflected the price of your choice of handset, that would be fair. I bet we would see lower handset prices as handset companies would also have to compete. Right now Apple, as an example, can still sell to carriers at higher prices and have it subsidized to consumers at the same price as other less expensive handsets. How is that fair? Yes let consumers choose but not on the backs of other consumers.
    You are alittle off on two points. IPhones arent waayyy more expensive. Look up how much the Note 3 compares to the 32GB 5S. Another thing is that you DON'T get the same subsidy for a 5S that you would for say an HTC One or Z10. The 5S 16GB costs $229.99 up front plus a minimum $75/month contract. An HTC One is FREE with a $75/month contract and a Z10 is only $50 up front with a $45/month contract!

    Phones are already subsidized the way u say it should be. If people don't have money to spend, they can go on a lower rate plan and get cheaper phones that have minimal or 0 up front costs.

    You can't get upset at apple for being able to charge high prices for their devices. Because some shee*cough*people really love there devices and are willing to pay exorbitant prices. Supply and demand. Samsung's high end devices have very similar margins as iPhones.

    Posted via CB10
    anon1727506 likes this.
    12-09-13 10:53 PM
  9. anon1727506's Avatar
    There is no doubt that most all of us would like to see lower monthly bills. But these devices are expensive and you sometime do get what you pay for. Carriers are starting to offer plans without the subsidies - just not sure they didn't just raise the subsidised prices....

    They only thing I want government to do is keep the carriers honest on what they charge and not to keep rates artificially high. Just seems like the rates in the US are much higher than what I have seen in other markets - of course I have 4G and don't think I have dropped a call in over a year, even with travelling hundreds of miles (except when I'm traveling on a boat away from land).
    12-10-13 05:02 PM
  10. mastermike87's Avatar
    You are alittle off on two points. IPhones arent waayyy more expensive. Look up how much the Note 3 compares to the 32GB 5S. Another thing is that you DON'T get the same subsidy for a 5S that you would for say an HTC One or Z10. The 5S 16GB costs $229.99 up front plus a minimum $75/month contract. An HTC One is FREE with a $75/month contract and a Z10 is only $50 up front with a $45/month contract!

    Phones are already subsidized the way u say it should be. If people don't have money to spend, they can go on a lower rate plan and get cheaper phones that have minimal or 0 up front costs.

    You can't get upset at apple for being able to charge high prices for their devices. Because some shee*cough*people really love there devices and are willing to pay exorbitant prices. Supply and demand. Samsung's high end devices have very similar margins as iPhones.

    Posted via CB10
    Agreed.

    And on top of that, it isn't up to the government to control device subsidies. Subsidies are the carriers wanting to secure a consumer on to a rate plan. That would be like OP going to Best Buy and asking that the government lower the interest rate on his BB credit card after the 0% period.

    I'm as Liberal and pro government as they come, but even I understand government intervention and the free market. Silly post.

    Posted via CB10
    12-11-13 10:03 AM
  11. danprown's Avatar
    Papa's gotta lotta anger!

    I think you have packed some good observations but you simply cannot compare the oligopolistic position carriers/telcos occupy in North America and any domestic and foreign manufacturers of technology.

    It makes perfect sense for the government to protect consumers from oligopoly. Telco's, after all, are where they are in large part because of the massive infrastructure already subsidized by the tax-payers. Internet and cell phone service are de facto human rights in the 21st century, and it makes perfect sense for the government to protect consumers in that regard. HOW one access those services (e.g. a $100 second-hand computer or a Chinese cellphone -- or a $5,000 Mac or a $2,350 BB10 unit is really not that important in the grand scheme of government concern).

    So I see the Canadian Govt is advertising about high rates charged for cell phone plans in Canada. That may be true but it one shops, there are good deals to be found. What I find beyond wierd and twisted is the fact that no one sees to use the same logic of these commercials to other products in the telecom sector! Take Apple iphones as an example. Way higher priced than similar products, some, such as Blackberry, a Canadian product. So, we have our government using taxpayer funds to tell us that they understand and will work at trying to bring down the high cost of our monthly phone costs. Does anyone not see this as twisted? If most Canadians are buying the higher priced Apple iphone on a monthly contract, it should cost them more!! I don't see any Govt advertising trying to get consumers to buy Canadian companies products. In fact, no one seems to care that the bulk of purchases are going to a US based company. Instead, our own govt is basically attacking companies that operate within Canada and provide services to Canadians!! This is bizarre and borders on cannibalism!! Eata your own Also the govt has a website to "protect" us citizens from companies operating in Canada, companies that the govt has ownership restrictions on and that the govt would decide if they can be taken over or not!!! Yet Apple and Samsung, companies outside of Canada are free to come in and charge whatever they want in terms of market prices!! If there are really only TWO companies that provide these products, is this not close to a duopoly??? There are more LARGE telco companies in Canada than there are HANDSET providers!!! And yes, I am a Blackberry supporter but regardless of that, the logic of the govt is twisted and bizarre!! Then there are Consumers!! They don't seem to see any issue with handing over intimate personal information to foreign companies like Apple, Microsoft, Google etc. yet those same consumers have to be threatened with fines and legal action to fill in census forms on behalf of our own govt.!!! Just shows the bizarre thinking and logic that pervades the stupid cattle consumer in Canada!! We deserve what we get, government and consumer. Wait till the screw turns and there are no other options available for handsets but two!! Will there be a general wringing of hands and cries of foul??? Fricking stupid people!!
    mset and TGR1 like this.
    12-11-13 02:20 PM
  12. Duffman19's Avatar
    Ain't nobody got time for that read

    Posted via CB10
    12-12-13 04:39 AM
  13. mset's Avatar
    It makes perfect sense for the government to protect consumers from oligopoly. Telco's, after all, are where they are in large part because of the massive infrastructure already subsidized by the tax-payers. Internet and cell phone service are de facto human rights in the 21st century, and it makes perfect sense for the government to protect consumers in that regard. HOW one access those services (e.g. a $100 second-hand computer or a Chinese cellphone -- or a $5,000 Mac or a $2,350 BB10 unit is really not that important in the grand scheme of government concern).
    Thread Closed.
    12-13-13 06:52 PM

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