08-12-13 01:47 AM
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  1. Nathan Bael's Avatar
    You'd probably fall over if you knew my daycare costs. The other side of it is earning power (if it exists). Stay at home parent's earning power decreases the more they stay at home. You have to take a long view on it, not only is it cash in your pocket, its retirement, medical, and later saving for there college.
    You bring up good points. I just wonder at what point is it better to have a stay at home parent? Haven't studies shown that children develop better with a stay at home parent?

    On the other end of the spectrum from some of you guys is a friend of mine from work. After daycare and other expenses, his wife was clearing $20-$40 a week. I can't see how that is a good trade off for the child.

    I admit my bias towards having a stay at home parent. My mother was one even though we were poor. My sister had special medical needs and my mom provided for her and took care of her.

    It isn't my decision to make for people, I am just stating my views. I personally chose not to have children, as they get on my nerves.
    08-01-13 07:51 PM
  2. Shanerredflag's Avatar
    Bin there...done that. (day care). Know that it gets better. ...after college.

    Posted via CB10
    08-01-13 10:45 PM
  3. undone's Avatar
    You bring up good points. I just wonder at what point is it better to have a stay at home parent? Haven't studies shown that children develop better with a stay at home parent?

    On the other end of the spectrum from some of you guys is a friend of mine from work. After daycare and other expenses, his wife was clearing $20-$40 a week. I can't see how that is a good trade off for the child.

    I admit my bias towards having a stay at home parent. My mother was one even though we were poor. My sister had special medical needs and my mom provided for her and took care of her.

    It isn't my decision to make for people, I am just stating my views. I personally chose not to have children, as they get on my nerves.
    My mom was a stay at home. And back in the day the divorce rate was a lot lower as well as flipping jobs wasnt the norm. Unless your 'rich', I think most metro area 'normal' people both work. It probably shows up in the birth rates for middle class where most are have one / two kids max.

    Your friends wife is doing more for herself then making money. She is (potential) keeping her skills current and making herself more marketable. God forbid her husband loses his job or something worse. The idea of staying at a job for 30-40 years (at least in the US) is long past so that stability isn't really there before.

    My oldest came out of daycare (which wasn't just doesnt watch my children but teaches them) and went into first grade well above the curve for learning. And my others are following the same path, most likely better off at least from a learning perspective. Also the day(school)care is very 'family' like.

    As a side note, my wife would love to stay home, have more kids and be a soccer mom. Problem is, she make double what I make. And I dont do too bad.
    08-02-13 11:43 AM
  4. lorax1284's Avatar
    And there is equally as many people flying around with black capes like you
    A reasonable critic of BB would acknowledge that the tech is really good, and would also acknowledge that Android, iOS and Windows Phone are also really good, and if they're like me, "complain" or try to make positive suggestions about the corporate strategy or support or whatever... but people who are suggesting that BB10 should just be exactly like either Android or iOS aren't really offering anything positive to CrackBerry.com... I've sold my shares IN SPITE of the technology being really good, because the technology is good IN SPITE of BlackBerry management making strategic errors that call into question the short-term value of the BlackBerry brand. Once those tools are out of the way and someone who knows enough about business starts running BlackBerry, someone who knows that you can't afford to spite your most loyal customers in a time of crisis to save a few bucks, well,maybe there will be renewed hope for BB10... because the tech is sound, it's mismanagement that has impaired broader adoption, hindsight being what it is.
    Shanerredflag and JeepBB like this.
    08-02-13 01:11 PM
  5. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    I personally chose not to have children, as they get on my nerves.
    You should try adults... LOL.
    Shanerredflag likes this.
    08-02-13 01:22 PM
  6. 454vette's Avatar
    My wife and I have Z10's. She moved up from a Samsung flip phone and I was a BlackBerry user before I retired. We went BlackBerry because they work for us. I don't buy consumer products based on how well the stock is doing- for those wondering about buying a BlackBerry do you buy cars,appliances etc based on how well the stock is doing. IT'S a PHONE buy the one that works for you regardless of the brand and stock market!

    Posted via CB10
    Shanerredflag likes this.
    08-02-13 09:57 PM
  7. FFR's Avatar
    My wife and I have Z10's. She moved up from a Samsung flip phone and I was a BlackBerry user before I retired. We went BlackBerry because they work for us. I don't buy consumer products based on how well the stock is doing- for those wondering about buying a BlackBerry do you buy cars,appliances etc based on how well the stock is doing. IT'S a PHONE buy the one that works for you regardless of the brand and stock market!

    Posted via CB10
    Yes but blackberry is no longer just a phone it is an ecosystem, one where users and developers invest heavily in, or in blackberry's case, not.
    JeepBB likes this.
    08-03-13 06:38 AM
  8. Emaderton3's Avatar
    Yes but blackberry is no longer just a phone it is an ecosystem, one where users and developers invest heavily in, or in blackberry's case, not.
    I would say that Apple is much more of an ecosystem for users due to the wide variety of products that Apple consumers are embedded in and therefore find it hard to switch. As my brother-in-law told me, why would he switch when he can share media across his family's multiple iPhones, iPads, iTouches, iPods, and Apple TV making it both easy to entertain my niece and nephew as well as easily control and monitor what they are exposed to.

    Posted via CB10
    08-03-13 08:16 AM
  9. FFR's Avatar
    I would say that Apple is much more of an ecosystem for users due to the wide variety of products that Apple consumers are embedded in and therefore find it hard to switch. As my brother-in-law told me, why would he switch when he can share media across his family's multiple iPhones, iPads, iTouches, iPods, and Apple TV making it both easy to entertain my niece and nephew as well as easily control and monitor what they are exposed to.

    Posted via CB10
    Exactly, the game has changed.
    08-03-13 08:20 AM
  10. njblackberry's Avatar
    Yes but blackberry is no longer just a phone it is an ecosystem, one where users and developers invest heavily in, or in blackberry's case, not.
    I don't think they are quite there yet. They have new phones which are incompatible with old phones, and no tablets. That's not an ecosystem. That's a phone with limited apps. They may get there, but it is going to be a very long haul.
    08-03-13 08:34 AM
  11. FFR's Avatar
    I don't think they are quite there yet.
    The competition is there. It just means blackberry cannot compete.

    They have new phones which are incompatible with old phones, and no tablets. That's not an ecosystem. That's a phone with limited apps.
    That's blackberry's strategy, you can't blame the competition for blackberry's failure to execute.


    They may get there, but it is going to be a very long haul.
    I'm sure the same sentiment was echoed at pre central and they did not get there.
    JeepBB likes this.
    08-03-13 08:47 AM
  12. njblackberry's Avatar
    FFR - didn't you say "Yes but blackberry is no longer just a phone it is an ecosystem"? That is what I don't agree with. They are NOT an ecosystem.
    08-03-13 08:54 AM
  13. JeepBB's Avatar
    FFR - didn't you say "Yes but blackberry is no longer just a phone it is an ecosystem"? That is what I don't agree with. They are NOT an ecosystem.
    I reckon you are both actually in agreement, but are miscommunicating.

    I took FFR's comment (in response to a post saying BB was just a phone) as saying that was no longer good enough. The game has changed, and so BB have got to be more than (just a) phone, they need to offer the phone as part of a bigger ecosystem... an ecosystem which I believe we agree that they haven't got, and IMO don't seem likely to gain anytime soon.
    08-03-13 10:45 AM
  14. FFR's Avatar
    I reckon you are both actually in agreement, but are miscommunicating.

    I took FFR's comment (in response to a post saying BB was just a phone) as saying that was no longer good enough. The game has changed, and so BB have got to be more than (just a) phone, they need to offer the phone as part of a bigger ecosystem... an ecosystem which I believe we agree that they haven't got, and IMO don't seem likely to gain anytime soon.
    Eloquent as always.
    08-03-13 11:26 AM
  15. rayzian's Avatar
    wait till 10.2 if you ever decide to switch... by then you can probably grab a used q10 to save some bank lol
    08-03-13 01:25 PM
  16. FFR's Avatar
    wait till 10.2 if you ever decide to switch... by then you can probably grab a used q10 to save some bank lol
    I remember the same was said for 10.1.
    Eternal patience is a virtue.
    JeepBB likes this.
    08-03-13 01:39 PM
  17. Emaderton3's Avatar
    Everyone has always been saying 10.2.

    Posted via CB10
    08-03-13 07:51 PM
  18. BBBHonest's Avatar
    Just a quick comment on something someone said a number of posts ago about the best stock advice he was ever given - something about not holding a stock that won't go up in the short term, and switching to a stock that is 'going to be going up' over the short term. I don't wish to say this impolitely, but that is a very risky strategy, and you'll find it's the complete opposite of what someone like Warren Buffett would say. In addition to eating away your profits with transaction fees, you are locking in a loss, and gambling on a gain that isn't guaranteed at all.

    I bought quite a bit of BB (relative to my wealth) the day the stock dropped, after initially buying a bunch when it was at $14. I think BB is a tremendous opportunity right now, not without risks, mainly having to do with the competence of the management, etc. Unless you feel that BlackBerry is going out of business, it makes sense to hold the stock and be patient. The stock is hugely undervalued, and fundamentally quite attractive. BlackBerry have a path to success in front of them, if they can steer the ship sensibly. I'm personally not buying anymore stock at the moment because I am not sure the management are going to take correct advantage of the plays available to them, but if they do, BlackBerry is going to easily be at a respectable $50 or so within five years.

    People have no patience these days. The expectations for the recovery were vastly unrealistic, despite BlackBerry's marketing incompetence, and can't properly be assessed until after next Christmas. The reason I bought BB was because I bought the Z10.

    When you can understand a company, why they have done badly, and what they have done to improve, if the balance sheets look okay, you should buy the stock. BB ticks those boxes. The products are excellent (Q5 not included), the company has got loads of cash, and the stock is undervalued because of irrational herd behaviour in the media, not to mention those shorting it. If BlackBerry price the new phones more sensibly, I will buy more stock, but for now I am happy to sit on what I've got, and wait. There is just no rush.

    Posted via CB10
    08-03-13 08:50 PM
  19. Andy321's Avatar
    There is a big difference between a share price and the viability of the company. In short, the two do not correlate. So to look at the share price and conclude that the company will fail because the share price is depressed is misguided. That said, the perception of failure which a depressed share price brings is a legitimate concern from the perspective of whether app developers will bother to developed BB10 apps. I have no doubt that a certain number of apps which might have been built haven't been because of the perception, driven by the share price, that BlackBerry is doomed. But there is a huge difference between BlackBerry being able to attract all the top apps and BlackBerry closing it's doors entirely. Further, there is no legitimate comparison between BlackBerry and Palm. BlackBerry has an entrenched lead in many corporations and governments which Palm never had. Personally, I find the perspective that there is only room for two or three platforms bizarre. If someone told you that there was only room for three car manufacturers in the world, you would be justified in wondering if they were nuts. If you paid attention only to share price and pundits, you would have believed 1 year ago that BB10 would never make it to market, which tells you how much attention should be paid to prognosticating analysts.

    Posted via CB10
    08-03-13 10:05 PM
  20. app_Developer's Avatar
    There is a big difference between a share price and the viability of the company.
    There is a strong correlation between share price and investors willingness to allow a company to continue operating as they have been. No one is arguing that BBRY is running out of cash. What people are saying is that BBRY is running out of time. If they cannot make BB10 work, and they cannot provide ROI to shareholders, then the shareholders would have to look much more strongly at strategic options.

    Share price matters because shareholders own the company and are free to sell it in whole or in part if they think they can get more money that way. BBRY does not have an indefinite amount of time to try to make a go of being an integrated hardware/software mobile play.

    Personally, I find the perspective that there is only room for two or three platforms bizarre. If someone told you that there was only room for three car manufacturers in the world, you would be justified in wondering if they were nuts.
    Cars aren't a good example, because cars are roughly compatible with all roads and all drivers. Phones also could be made compatible with all networks. That was back when phones were primarily phones, and so there was room for more competitors.

    The business has changed. App stores and media stores changed the business all together. Now phones are computing platforms, and in computing platforms there really isn't room for many competing platforms because they don't all work with the same software. That's why in desktop computers, there is one overwhelming standard OS (Windows) and one much smaller alternate platform (Mac) and everything else is for hobbyists. On servers also you have Windows and Linux, and then other platforms are just small bit players now (Solaris, HP/UX, IBM mainframes) or have died (and that's in the server business, where switching costs are much higher than what you have in phones)

    Then on mobile computers you have the overwhelming majority now running Android, you have a minority (but good size minority) running iOS, and then maybe there is room for one more. This for the simple fact that developers of software and services for these phones can't be expected to make 5 different versions of their software. Right now most make two versions. Some maybe will make three. It's hard to imagine much more than that.
    Last edited by app_Developer; 08-04-13 at 08:42 AM.
    JeepBB and notfanboy like this.
    08-04-13 01:57 AM
  21. BBBHonest's Avatar
    It's a mistake to make predictions on the long term future of things based on the status quo. At the moment, Apple and Android are on top, but there was a time when BlackBerry were on top, and very few would have predicted their fall.

    The question for me was whether the stock was undervalued, and whether I thought the new products addressed the reasons the company had been failing. I think they do. The risk as I see it is whether the company can ride out the negativity whilst regaining it's reputation. That is a gamble, but BlackBerry has several moves on the board, and I think the CEO is doing a good job in general, despite the mistakes they've made in launching and perhaps pricing products.

    The Z10 and Q10 are slowly getting out there, and those phones are view changers. Here in the UK I am seeing more and more of them, and I just saw a photo of Jessica Alba in the news carrying the Q10. These little things make a difference. The question is not whether BlackBerry will be back on top by January, but whether their long term position will continue to improve.

    It is easy to predict the weather by looking out the window; it is more difficult to forecast the future, and media pundits are addicted to predicting the present. How is this for a possible future: BlackBerry release BBM cross platform, it becomes the overwhelming favourite for messaging again, the company's reputation improves, and the trash talking slowly stops. Before long, nearly everyone with a smartphone is using BBM. BlackBerry realise that they can start offering extended profile features, such as photo albums, personalised pages, and other Facebook like features, whilst offering people the privacy that Facebook doesn't. Within three years, they've done from 'dead' to the messaging hegemon, and cut some of the legs out from underneath Facebook. All the while, they've been improving their phones, and slowly regaining market share, not to mention enterprise, and the possibility of deeply penetrating the auto industry. Within five years BlackBerry is a giant, with a stock price of $150.

    Now, the above scenario is impossible to predict, because we don't know the future. The opportunities, however, are there for BlackBerry. That's why I bought shares when it was at $14, and why I bought even more when it crashed to $9. The BlackBerry ship way hit the rocks if it's not steered properly, but if it is, the storm will eventually subside, and there is nothing but deep blue see ahead. I'm hoping they can do it.

    Posted via CB10
    app_Developer likes this.
    08-04-13 05:07 AM
  22. BBBHonest's Avatar
    Forgive the typos...was walking and typing...

    Posted via CB10
    08-04-13 05:09 AM
  23. FFR's Avatar
    There is a big difference between a share price and the viability of the company. In short, the two do not correlate. So to look at the share price and conclude that the company will fail because the share price is depressed is misguided.

    Blackberry will fail because in addition to the plummeting stock price, BB10 phones are not selling causing a surplus, Legacy BB Devices are being replaced by iPhones, androids, and now wm8, Blackberry's global marketshare is below 3% and dropping, they lost money last quarter and their forecasts for the next quarter is just as bad, government bb users has dropped 30% percent in the last quarter, Indonesia accounts for 20% of bb users world wide, 80% of BES 10 downloads for evaluation is in India, with no evidence that the trials will translate into customers, Executive and talent leaving the company, more layoffs, blackberry has 1.9 billion in cash not 3 billion, which will be used this quarter for "investment", Etc.

    There is more but I will stop here.


    That said, the perception of failure which a depressed share price brings is a legitimate concern from the perspective of whether app developers will bother to developed BB10 apps.
    Perception of failure?
    Blackberry is failing it's not a perception it is the reality.

    But there is a huge difference between
    BlackBerry being able to attract all the top apps and BlackBerry closing it's doors entirely.
    Posted via CB10
    What's the difference?
    You haven't listed anything, and we have Nokia saying they can't compete without the top apps, they also shipped more lumias then bb did with bb10

    Further, there is no legitimate comparison between BlackBerry and Palm
    Posted via CB10
    The fact you can't see a comparison between palm and blackberry explains your skewed perception of the market.


    BlackBerry has an entrenched lead in many corporations and governments which Palm never had.
    Posted via CB10
    Not anymore. The only government that has "committed" to bb10 has been the German govt., that is for some time in 2014.

    Personally, I find the perspective that there is only room for two or three platforms bizarre. If someone told you that there was only room for three car manufacturers in the world, you would be justified in wondering if they were nuts. If you paid attention only to share price and pundits, you would have believed 1 year ago that BB10 would never make it to market, which tells you how much attention should be paid to prognosticating analysts.

    Posted via CB10
    There are so many fallacies littered in your post.

    As for the analysts they were right.
    How much was the stock when the analysts were prognosticating?
    $32.
    Today it's at $8.9.
    Maybe more attention should be given to the analysts and less to posts like yours.

    Cheers.
    JeepBB, Etios and bbfan1040 like this.
    08-04-13 07:50 AM
  24. FFR's Avatar
    Double post
    08-04-13 08:16 AM
  25. Gesig Boek's Avatar
    How is this for a possible future: BlackBerry release BBM cross platform, it becomes the overwhelming favourite for messaging again, the company's reputation improves, and the trash talking slowly stops. Before long, nearly everyone with a smartphone is using BBM. BlackBerry realise that they can start offering extended profile features, such as photo albums, personalised pages, and other Facebook like features, whilst offering people the privacy that Facebook doesn't. Within three years, they've done from 'dead' to the messaging hegemon, and cut some of the legs out from underneath Facebook. All the while, they've been improving their phones, and slowly regaining market share, not to mention enterprise, and the possibility of deeply penetrating the auto industry. Within five years BlackBerry is a giant, with a stock price of $150.
    One thing I have really failed to understand is the optimism around BBM. In the western market BBM has lost all traction and network effect, and the chance of it catching on again is very small.

    In the developed world, where more than 60% of Blackberrys are, BBM is still a big deal with a strong network effect, which has been sustaining Blackberry 7 handset sales, but making it cross platform will kill Blackberry sales stone cold dead, as everyone switch to cheap Android handsets, where they will also have access to a large number of high quality messaging apps like Line, Whatsapp etc both with more than 200 million users already.

    Remember with Blackberry subscriber numbers dropping by 4 million each quarter BBM is actually a shrinking ecosystem. The momentum is just not there.
    08-04-13 08:32 AM
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