[MarsupilamiX]

Yay!!!
More contribution!!! Thanks for that.

I am not sure if their existing BIS infrastructure should remain unchanged, or how much it would cost to enhance them in a certain way.
I think a VPN service, for all smartphones should be "Easily" achieved.
For emails, device to device encryption. They should route through BBRY'S network, and automatically detect if the recipient is also a client of the BB service.
I haven't thought the cloud solution through though.

BBRY should offer that, in a device agnostic way. And affordable for the consumer.

Is that something realistic to achieve?

Posted via CB10

[kbz1960]

QNX is everywhere but embedded and doing specific tasks. I think it was BB to first give it an UI. Personally I think they underestimated the task big time.

I don't know about that. Have you seen the QNX cars? I saw videos of the system in the car doing skype video and many more things long ago. It looked like BBRY's QNX and I'm not sure if is or not but there also was an appworld icon on it.

So was this BBRY on QNX or is QNX on BBRY?

Edit: Uploaded to youtube in Jan. 2012

[David Hoang]

You mean encrypting your data from your phone and then send to VPN endpoint device? Kinda like BBM?

Posted via CB10

[David Hoang]

I think it can be done but not sure about the costs. It would probably exceeds what ppl are willing to pay.

Posted via CB10

[David Hoang]

Btw there is report o think you might be interested in by the government of Canada about the security of sending msg through BBM. Forgot the name of the report though. I am sure will find it on Google.

Posted via CB10

[MarsupilamiX]

Let's say it like this.
In a certain way, like BBM, but for emails. Yes.
But the VPN service, used for browsing or downloading, should be a separated option.
Tier 1: only the Mail is encrypted. 50$ a year.
Tier 2: everything is ecrypted 150$
(or something like that, don't kill me on the pricing^^)

Posted via CB10

[MarsupilamiX]

Thanks! So much contribution, in such a short time

Edit:
@KBZ: I just compared it with my PlayBook and there are some similarities.
Especially the Blaq for Playbook gives that impression...
Posted via CB10

[David Hoang]

Btw their ASP for z10 is about 485. How I derived this number is as follows:

Based on the December quarter Revenue was 2.72 billion

1)Hardware = 60% revenues=1.6362b

2)Hardware units sold=6.9 m units of BlackBerry phones and 200k of PB

Divide 1 over 2 you get about 227 per unit

Quarter 4
Assumptions: ASP for old BlackBerry devices remains the same as quarter 3

Facts:
1) revenues was 2.7b
2) 60% = hardwares =
3) Hardware consists of 5 million units of old phones+ PB, 1 m z10

So
1)2.7b X 60% = 1.6362b
2)5m X 227 =1.135b

1-2 = residual revenue for z10= 485m
Finally 485m divided by 1m z10 = ASP.

Ps: I know it is off topic but someone mentioned about margins in earlier responses so I thought I share this with you guys.



Posted via CB10

[MarsupilamiX]

Nice one. Did you only look at their shareholder report, and calculated the rest yourself?
If yes nice work.
The problem is just that we have a lot of conflicting reports out there about the new ASP. Your methodology is not bad though.

Apart from that, because you appear to be knowledgeable enough: would my ideas of the email service and vpn in 2 tiers be feasable?

Why do you conclude the soltution could cost more than the user would be willing to pay?

Imagine bundled: BBM subscription for 1year:2-10$ ( RIM has the numbers, so they should know their price elasticity)
Now, bundled with the mail service: 35-55$.

Mail alone 35-55$
Vpn alone: 100-200$ a year.
Email+vpn+bbm: 125$-210$
These are for the non blackberry users.

Just an example, to illustrate the model.

Posted via CB10

[David Hoang]

Yeah accounting is my thing. That is why I brought RIM in September. Way undervalued at the time.

Posted via CB10

[MarsupilamiX]

I edited a little bit.
I bought sometimes between september and octobre^^

Posted via CB10

[David Hoang]

Your proposal is equivalents to the price of BES?


Posted via CB10

[MarsupilamiX]

Did BES evolve so much, that I as a user, do not need to have an Exchange licence and a windows server licence to use it? If yes, i am really ashamed, to have missed that evolution.

On the other hand, a BBM subscription+secure email is something separated from the VPN service that encrypts every traffic going through the web. You can give it away for far cheaper.
The VPN solution also slows the connection down, by a high margin. So that solution is for the "Prosumer"

Also, to my knowledge, setting up a BES server is... not easy for non techies. So BBRY capitalizes on that. They aid the user in giving him secure email, without the user to need how it works.

Of course the pricing has to be set, so that they do not fall pray of the fault, to cannibalize their own market. A difference to BES and mobile fusion has to exist. It must be a difference in power and price.

I like your input. Thanks!

Posted via CB10

[David Hoang]

I agree BES not for everyone but we were talking about costs.

So encrypted data from your phone, push to the Internet, then to BlackBerry server, then carrier, then through VPN server than then to the end point device, which would decrypt data?

I see a lot of hole for possible beach of security. Plus the encryption part, I would assume that if you encrypt data from a BlackBerry phones then other BlackBerry phones can decrypt (tho am not sure if we can have a software that would only allowed registered devices to decrypt the data)

We basically back to step 1. How do we secured the data without a method to regulate what type of traffic get accepted and denied access.

If it can't be secured I don't think we can sell it consumers claiming it is secured.

I could be wrong here. Any expert on network security please help us out.



Posted via CB10

[southlander]

People did buy BlackBerry mainly because of BIS.

I bought my Tour in 2009 because it could get emails and it had what appeared to me to be a good keyboard. I had no idea what BIS was. Did not know about compression or any of the specifics of BIS. I venture to say most consumer traditional BlackBerry users do not know what BIS is.

[MarsupilamiX]

@ David
You are asking the right questions, I have to be more detailed. That gets me forward.

Sooo...
I would do it like this: encrypt the content of the message, be it text, an image, or what ever on the device, before it goes out to the network.
Here, the user should have the option to either use a public key, or a cryptographic key, that is generated freshly on every message he sends. Of course, for this last user scenario, both parties of the conversation must be a member of the subscritpion.

If the message goes out to another email adress, the message at least goes through a VPN tunneling, so that it is "Secure enough" compared to no VPN tunnelling at all. Under these circumstances i think we could call it secure.

The problem is I myself am not a network engineer as well. This is hearsay from some really good friends of mine, who work in IT department and whom I trust a 97%. And a little research from myself.
They said, that it is way more secure, than a normal implementation of getting mails.
And the possibilityy to encrypt messages completely, if the other party is also a subscriber, combines my thoughts of opening up the BBRY infrastructure to other devices and a layer of security far above BIS.

If we now add a VPN tunneling, that goes to BBRY'S servers, and where the whole traffic is encrypted... we should have a pretty foolproof solution for security and privacy.

Where would you see the problem?

We have to presuppose that demand for BBM on other platforms is there. Through that first contact, we could try to to entice the new consumers into the joining the Email service as well. Be it as a welcome gift, or a really cheap first subscritpion. The rest should happen automatically through momentum, and a good ad campaign.

Like this we gain security, with every customer added. And our customers will do some of the work, to recruite new people. This also presuppose an ease of use, unbeknownst to the consumer.





Posted via CB10

[sakin13]

Been thinking about this on and off today. maybe some of that have been posted before as i hope im not the only one thinking that way...

Some facts first :

_landlines becoming obsolete.
_an increasing number of people prefer texting over talking on the phone.
_People will eventually get tired of all this App bs that is going around, yes there will be a certain amount of apps that have grown into becoming absolutely vital but thats it. people will come to realize that a big amount of apps are just novelties and a waste of time they will die out.
_most consumers on mobile phone contract end up paying more than they expect for a number of hard to comprehend reasons.
_all and i mean ALL the smartphone users i know complain about battery life.

if the above assumptions are correct or at least apply for a large amount of the population i would do the following as BBRY :

_ Introduce a BB Data Only Device. yes no phone number only PIN number. nothing else. Optimize it so it can run voip with very limited resources even on EDGE ( although it should be 3g capable ) should have wifi too for proper indoor use.
_Make a new very simple smartphone not even sure if it has to be BB10 based. the cheapest possible version anyhow. Make sure its a durable device though. Battery should be a real workhorse. last at least 20 hours of moderate to heavy use.
_give certain advantages to people with those devices. maybe strike a deal with one of the major providers ( like apple did initially with att ) for exclusivity and offer a 2 year plan with only 30-40 dollar flat fee unlimited data ( remember no voice and no number its so much easier for providers too ) That flat fee should include BBRY's service ( maybe 20-30% of that ).
_upgrade BBM into cross platform app . as it was described on previous posts on this thread and give interconnectivity with the other OS users. ( there will definitely be other options too like skype or viber etc for that device but BBM could eventually prevail )

to sum it up i think in a few years from now there will be a large amount of users who will go back to basics so the more simplified devices will gain ground.

again these are just some scattered thoughts.

[David Hoang]

Sure that will add another level of security to BIS. It will be more secured for sure.

The estimated monthly costs for a consumer consists of BIS, VPN, and carrier service plan? Am I correct?

I am not the market but personally I don't think I would pay more than 20 per month. Of course some will. So the ultimate question is will there be enough demands to be profitable. Of to answer this question we need to do an in depth analysis.

I can't answer this question...so all I can say is "people sometimes need to be told what they need" If you can convince people that this what they need then I can't see how this would not work.


Posted via CB10

[belfastdispatcher]

I bought my Tour in 2009 because it could get emails and it had what appeared to me to be a good keyboard. I had no idea what BIS was. Did not know about compression or any of the specifics of BIS. I venture to say most consumer traditional BlackBerry users do not know what BIS is.

That was then, back then I didn't really know much either. But you bought that Tour because of its email reputation, which was directly from use of BIS, even if you didn't know it at the time.

Back in 2009 everybody else used the same email system today is found on the Z10, and on the Z10 its still missing features.

Today people are asking where's my bis every day on their social networking sites.

Posted via CB10

[MarsupilamiX]

Imagine that it would be available as followed.
BBM subscription for 1year:2-10$ ( RIM has the numbers, so they should know their price elasticity)

Bundled BBM+Secure mail service: 45-65$.
Mail alone: 45-65$
The reason for the same pricing is, to entice the user into buying at least 2 services.
(If you compare the pricing with other hosted email providers, that model would have to be priced comparativly.)

Vpn alone: 100-200$ a year.
Email+vpn+bbm: 125$-210$
These are for the non blackberry users.

The costs for the enduser now depend on what he thinks he needs. BBRY would of course like him to take as much services as they provide...

But we would have 2 types of consumers:
1) Costs for the "normal" enduser who does not need a complete VPN tunneling solution, where the whole traffic is encrypted: monthly cell phone plan+a one year Mail and BBM subscription. If billing for the the mail service&BBM happens through the carrier, he could add a little monthly fee, that is collected from BBRY.

In this scenario, the customers use the BIS architecture, more or less, but are not paying directly to use BIS. They do it for BBM and the Mail service.

So costs here are:
Carrier Plan+BBM/Mail subscription

2) the Prosumer type of customer: well informed (some could even call him paranoid) and willing to pay for security and privacy, but not willing to learn how to set up a BES, or how exchange works.
For this type, we have the VPN tunneling solution, that anonymizes traffic, and routes it encrypted, through BBRY'S infrastructure.
Costs: monthly cell phone plans+yearly subscription to BBRY's network infrastructure (called BIS nowadays for the consumer)

Here the reason for the consumer to pay is BIS, and not their Email service.

In tier 3, the VPN is combined with Hosted Email. BBRY would now have 3 new products to launch.

Costs: Carrier Plan+Hosted mail/BBM+VPN

Misc. Thoughts...
These thoughts are for a device agnostic service, offered by BBRY.

1) A paid Gmail subscritpion is 40$ a year. I do not think, that my pricing for the Mail+BBM service is off here, because the security added is the USP. It adds value to an existing model. It is morally acceptable to get money for that.

2) A web interface is needed, like all the known Mail providers have.

3) Pricing for a VPN tunneling solution ranges from 30$ a year to 200$
http://vpn-services.findthebest.com/
BBRY does not have a USP here. But we have a name, a reputation. And trust in the brand. Maybe not for the most modern phones, but I think you get the idea.

4) Carriers could offer a monthly data plan upgrade, for 5-15$ (?) that gives you unlimited data, for every thing that routes through BBRY'S servers.
Notably BBM, mails and video BBM. Maybe making Video BBM only available to people who took that option. Like this you give carriers the option of a new revenue streem as well, and therefore are likely to market it as well.

5) A person who bought a BlackBerry Phone, must not pay for the hosted Mail solution for one year, and like it is now, never for the BBM+Videochat apps.

6) this offers the possibility for BBRY, to cater to peolple who would have never bought a BES. BES/Mobile Fusion still has MDM, therefore these services should not cannibalize existing service revenue. They have a completely different target audience.

7) We need to give BBRY mobile phone customers better prices, for these services. How exactly, is hypothetical, so in any case, less than we would want from customers that have a non BBRY device.

8) low cost BB10 phone, for emerging markets. If not stranglehold in these markets could be lost.

What would you say people?

Posted via CB10

[belfastdispatcher]

I don't know about you but when I upgrade or buy a new phone I bargain prices down, you seem intent on charging people more.

A lot of what you propose I get for free with BIS, BBM is free, one secure email address is free (secure as in it can only be read on my BlackBerry device, nowhere else) i get true push email for free, I get data compression for free.

I but a phone and a data plan, that's all I need to know.

Just because BBM could be cross platform doesn't mean everybody will jump in it. So people will have to pay for BBM and WhatsApp to keep in touch with all their Friends. Not gonna happen.

In the meantime its taking BlackBerry over two months to fix a simple smtp email problem. I wouldn't hold my breath for all you propose.

Posted via CB10

[MarsupilamiX]

I know its a lot of words, but read it through again. Please. I will not repeat everything over and over again, if I have already talked about it.

This is not about charging more. It is about opening up BBRY network, and do what the competition is doing. Google and others provide hosted email for money.
BBRY can do it better. Just as an exemple. The other services are the same.
I especially proposed that BBRY buyers get one year worth of the hosted email subscription as a gift.
As a whole, I propose more value for existing solutions. Not everybody has to be willing to pay for it.
But to say that it is only about money grabbing is insulting.
There are so many points in my posts that contradict that. I can't do the reading for you though

When I upgrade my phone, I buy unlocked from Amazon. That is the best bargain I can make. I never paid less, since I stoped buying phones from my carrier.

If you want to discuss the money grabbing, give me exemples. Not a " I have a feeling that".


Posted via CB10

[belfastdispatcher]

I know its a lot of words, but read it through again. Please. I will not repeat everything over and over again, if I have already talked about it.

This is not about charging more. It is about opening up BBRY network, and do what the competition is doing. Google and others provide hosted email for money.
BBRY can do it better. Just as an exemple. The other services are the same.
I especially proposed that BBRY buyers get one year worth of the hosted email subscription as a gift.
As a whole, I propose more value for existing solutions. Not everybody has to be willing to pay for it.
But to say that it is only about money grabbing is insulting.
There are so many points in my posts that contradict that. I can't do the reading for you though

When I upgrade my phone, I buy unlocked from Amazon. That is the best bargain I can make. I never paid less, since I stoped buying phones from my carrier.

If you want to discuss the money grabbing, give me exemples. Not a " I have a feeling that".


Posted via CB10

I'll tell you exactly why this is a very bad idea, this is a day and age when other platforms are racing to ad more and more free features to their existing offers to entice more and more people to join up. Previous paid options are now offered for free like Apple's MobileMe, now icloud.

And you want BlackBerry to compete by charging people more? I'm willing to pay for BIS on BB10 as I really do love and apreciate it, that's why I've been using it since 2008 and I really do want it back. But that's as far as I would go.

BlackBerry can't compete by charging for what others offer for free, no matter how secure it may be.

Edit, you tell us what BB should offer at a price, please tell us what should BB offer for free. Nothing?

[MarsupilamiX]

So are you saying, that every Hosted Email provider, where you pay for your mail domain, went out of business?

The rest of what you are saying is a half truth...
Google for exemples offers everything for cheap, because you as the user, are the product. It was said often enough, and even if it sounds evil, that is a fact.
So you subsidize the costs, with something else, that is worth money. Informations.
Google Mail has a paid service, as has more or less every major competitor. Why does it exist, if poeple are not willing to pay for it?
That is a logical fallacy called a " non sequitur".

Same goes for Apple. Their devices cost around 670 euro, for an unlocked 16gb version. They subsidize the solutions they give away for free, with extremely elevated prices somewhere else. They also have an ecosystem called iTunes, that makes them money. Also a way to subsidize free services.

Your analysis may seem correct at first, but if you understand how the competitiors of BlackBerry operate, than you see that there is a reason their services are "Free". Or, in reality far from it.

You say that they can't charge for something that others give away for free. Your argument is inexistant, as their services are not free. The consumers pay. Just on another end. The result is the same, these enterprises get their money.

To finish: that you couldn't give me a precise exemple, shows me that you are either not reading my replies, or do not understand them. (this could also be my fault, for not being clear enough. I doubt that)

Edit: I have written about what they should offer for free. Nothing, if you are not a BlackBerry customer.

Double Edit:
The name of the thread, means that I try to find new revenue streams for BlackBerry. That is the premise of every single post I made.

That you call that money grabbing, results, as so often, in a non understanding of the market.

Posted via CB10

[belfastdispatcher]

So are you saying, that every Hosted Email provider, where you pay for your mail domain, went out of business?

The rest of what you are saying is a half truth...
Google for exemples offers everything for cheap, because you as the user, are the product. It was said often enough, and even if it sounds evil, that is a fact.
So you subsidize the costs, with something else, that is worth money. Informations.
Google Mail has a paid service, as has more or less every major competitor. Why does it exist, if poeple are not willing to pay for it?
That is a logical fallacy called a " non sequitur".

Same goes for Apple. Their devices cost around 670 euro, for an unlocked 16gb version. They subsidize the solutions they give away for free, with extremely elevated prices somewhere else. They also have an ecosystem called iTunes, that makes them money. Also a way to subsidize free services.

Your analysis may seem correct at first, but if you understand how the competitiors of BlackBerry operate, than you see that there is a reason their services are "Free". Or, in reality far from it.

You say that they can't charge for something that others give away for free. Your argument is inexistant, as their services are not free. The consumers pay. Just on another end. The result is the same, these enterprises get their money.

To finish: that you couldn't give me a precise exemple, shows me that you are either not reading my replies, or do not understand them. (this could also be my fault, for not being clear enough. I doubt that)

Edit: I have written about what they should offer for free. Nothing, if you are not a BlackBerry customer.

Double Edit:
The name of the thread, means that I try to find new revenue streams for BlackBerry. That is the premise of every single post I made.

That you call that money grabbing, results, as so often, in a non understanding of the market.

Posted via CB10

And how much exactly does an unsubsidized Z10 or Q10 cost? See now where your theory fails?