10-07-13 12:17 PM
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  1. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    We will see, in due course, what kind of development there is when they haven't managed anything beyond 7.1 and still are barely able to support the PB.

    Be that as it may.....I believe that the only people surprised by the use of data in BB10 are those who never used anything other than BB. Users beyond the diminishing number of legacy BB subscribers have known for a long time that data is to be watched. BB10 devices use no more data than my non BB devices. Right now I'm at 677MB on my account, divided at around 530ish on my Z10 and the rest on my iPhone. This is because I have been trying to use my Z10 as my primary device for the last three weeks. This is right on par witih my use last month.

    So.....as far as data.....the only sticker shock are mostly those individuals who were used to legacy devices. The rest of the smartphone user base has moved along, and has done so over the last couple of years.
    I narrowed a lot of the big data usage to the Maps app. However, without BIS and its benefits BB10 has nothing in it that made me the big fan that I am, it's just another phone to me. I'm not gonna love it just because of the badge or logo. And I'm not alone.
    04-14-13 10:14 AM
  2. kbz1960's Avatar
    I narrowed a lot of the big data usage to the Maps app. However, without BIS and its benefits BB10 has nothing in it that made me the big fan that I am, it's just another phone to me. I'm not gonna love it just because of the badge or logo. And I'm not alone.
    As you shouldn't. I'm not sure what you're going to do when legacy devices are done though. I guess you have time yet to figure that out.
    04-14-13 10:26 AM
  3. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    I always liked the input QbnKelt gave, because she added a perspective to these forums, that broadened the view. Because she used other devices and was therefore able to see where the other 97% of the market are headed (so please come back ms. QbnKelt).

    On the other hand, BelfastD's view, for my taste is too narrow. But his opinion is shared by many, so it has to be considered. As long, as facts are not ignored. My best exemple would still be the Email security, or lack thereof.

    Also, BelfastD, if you really think that this is about squeezing money, out of the consumer, you completely missed the point. This is about adding value to existing solutions, or even creating new ones. If you think, that a really secure Email solution, or Cloud solution, is squeezing money out of someone, then it tells a lot about you. You are willing to pay for BIS, but an even better solution is squeezing out money of consumers...
    Double standard much???

    @chicagoguy: this is an interesting idea. I have to admit that.

    Edit: @kbz1960 This is a really good question. I just have to quote Orth again, his fail was so epic. In the smartphone industry he would have been totaly right, that is the irony xD
    #dealwithit

    Ps: another option, that they could offer would be VPN tunneling for every smartphone platform to BBRY's servers. As an add on for a smartphone dataplan.

    Posted via CB10
    04-14-13 10:30 AM
  4. qbnkelt's Avatar
    I narrowed a lot of the big data usage to the Maps app. However, without BIS and its benefits BB10 has nothing in it that made me the big fan that I am, it's just another phone to me. I'm not gonna love it just because of the badge or logo. And I'm not alone.
    I understand it. Your situation is unique and is not the norm. I understand it very well. One of the mods here has the same exact situation as you and I've discussed it with him. I've got loved ones who are all affected by the loss of BIS. I would manage without it during holidays, so although I can manage without it I see all your need for it.

    That said, you situations are not the majority. And BB has decided to cater to the majority.

    By the way, I absolutely disagree with the eradication of BIS for everyone. It should be kept as an option. And hopefully they will, but I'm not too hopeful. I believe that BIS has outlived its time.
    04-14-13 10:33 AM
  5. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    @QbnKelt
    This is why I think they should evolve BIS. Into something far greater than what it is today. Open it up to the other platforms. The BIS should become device agnostic, and offer at least some of the features I, and others envison.
    Of course priced accordingly.

    Posted via CB10
    04-14-13 10:45 AM
  6. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    @QbnKelt
    This is why I think they should evolve BIS. Into something far greater than what it is today. Open it up to the other platforms. The BIS should become device agnostic, and offer at least some of the features I, and others envison.
    Of course priced accordingly.

    Posted via CB10
    Are you aware this was an option in the past? It was called BlackBerry Connect and it worked on Symbian, Palm and WinMo devices. I have used it on a Nokia E61 for a few weeks just out of curiosity.

    This solution has failed unfortunatelly.
    04-14-13 10:52 AM
  7. qbnkelt's Avatar
    @QbnKelt
    This is why I think they should evolve BIS. Into something far greater than what it is today. Open it up to the other platforms. The BIS should become device agnostic, and offer at least some of the features I, and others envison.
    Of course priced accordingly.

    Posted via CB10
    I believe that BB missed a great opportunity by not licensing BBM out. Had they developed for other platforms there might not have been a WhatsApp or a Kik. RIM believed, erroneously, that people would stay with BB because of BBM. As Apple grew and Android exploded, it was clearly evident that BBM was not enough to keep people with BB. Additionally, push email became the norm, and they missed out on developing BIS.

    I agree with some of your thoughts.
    pantlesspenguin likes this.
    04-14-13 11:06 AM
  8. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Are you aware this was an option in the past? It was called BlackBerry Connect and it worked on Symbian, Palm and WinMo devices. I have used it on a Nokia E61 for a few weeks just out of curiosity.

    This solution has failed unfortunatelly.
    Because RIM became irrelevant. Not because of Connect.
    04-14-13 11:06 AM
  9. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    I know a lot of things, that chapter of BB is also part of that^^
    It's really hard to communicate something, if one just does not want to understand....
    BlackBerry connect was far too basic, adding no real value, costing far too much. Syncing mails was never that big of a problem... (even if QbnKelt disagrees here) And they became irrelevant.

    I want a near BES level of security for every device out there, for every CONSUMER and I am not alone. I want BBM on other platforms, and I am not alone. I want a secure and easy usable cloud, though this would be a really ambitious project. A VPN tunnelling for smartphones, through BBRY servers is also something someone could consider.
    These things, can be sold under the "Security for everyone" monicker. They add value. And a BIS 2.0 should look like this. Not like BBRY connect...

    Edit: @QbnKelt The problem with BBM was that they really thought, that it was their ultimate USP. Today we know better... That analysis is near fact, and I agree that they missed an opportunity with BBM. Therfore, if they still want to do it, they need a USP that outdoes WhatsApp by a big margin.

    Thanks for agreeing a little bit with me

    Posted via CB10
    04-14-13 11:07 AM
  10. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Because RIM became irrelevant. Not because of Connect.
    Wasn't that before or around the time the iphone came out and RIM was at its best?
    04-14-13 11:17 AM
  11. stundder's Avatar
    Are you aware this was an option in the past? It was called BlackBerry Connect and it worked on Symbian, Palm and WinMo devices. I have used it on a Nokia E61 for a few weeks just out of curiosity.

    This solution has failed unfortunatelly.
    Because it was on symbian palm and winmo. All os's that are done. And we're pretty crap anyways.

    Posted via CB10
    04-14-13 11:26 AM
  12. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Wasn't that before or around the time the iphone came out and RIM was at its best?
    The mobile landscape changed so much since then. That is why reminiscing doesn't help. RIM failed back then, because they couldn't cater to the consumers, and that in the end, corporations are made up of individuals, the consumers.
    They have changed. Nobody "Needs" BIS anymore to get Emails delivered (some want it). Nobody needed connect.
    But what everybody needs, is a little privacy.



    Posted via CB10
    04-14-13 11:27 AM
  13. stundder's Avatar
    But what everybody needs, is a little privacy.



    Posted via CB10

    If that was the case I would be sitting on a 100 dollar stock again.
    Not enough care at all.


    Posted via CB10
    04-14-13 11:30 AM
  14. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    If that was the case I would be sitting on a 100 dollar stock again.
    Not enough care at all.


    Posted via CB10
    Before the iPhone and every single Android, 97% of the people didn't know that they need them.
    Privacy is hard to comprehend for the normal consumer. A really sick exemple, is a friend of mine, who encrypts every email he sends, but uses facebook chat without even thinking about the privacy implications. Thats just... moronic.
    If you would show the consumer, that he needs privacy, in the same way Apple showed people that they need an iPhone, you have a winner.

    And I think, even if some people disagree with certain things i say completely, we should be able to agree on one thing. If we trust one company with Security, than it must be BlackBerry!

    Posted via CB10
    04-14-13 11:36 AM
  15. Jaybles's Avatar
    As long as a large enough number continue to buy Legacy and refuse to move to BB10 then they have no choice to develop for it and bring out new models. That's what I hope will happen. The lack of BIS is a big issue, on their facebook pages people are complaining daily, people that just wanted the latest BB and didn't know BIS was gone. In fact they didn't even know what BIS was, they just know the email they were used to is gone and their new BB is gulping data.
    If 70 million subs on BIS couldn't turn a profit for the company do you think they will care about developing the legacy os for th next few years.

    Of course they won't. They will support it as and when they need to but they have a new OS to support and their resources are heavily going towards this. Legacy os support will just slow progress down.

    They have a new business model and they are much likelier to return a profit selling high margin devices. And winning back the BES market.

    As for gulping data. My contract upgraded my data allowance from 500mb to 1gb. I still haven't gone past 500mb. But for some users, yes it's going to use more data. Welcome to the world we live in. Large data on demand is what people want.

    Posted via CB10
    MarsupilamiX and drcrane like this.
    04-14-13 11:38 AM
  16. stundder's Avatar
    Before the iPhone and every single Android, 97% of the people didn't know that they need them.
    Privacy is hard to comprehend for the normal consumer. A really sick exemple, is a friend of mine, who encrypts every email he sends, but uses facebook chat without even thinking about the privacy implications. Thats just... moronic.
    If you would show the consumer, that he needs privacy, in the same way Apple showed people that they need an iPhone, you have a winner.

    And I think, even if some people disagree with certain things i say completely, we should be able to agree on one thing. If we trust one company with Security, than it must be BlackBerry!

    Posted via CB10
    Sure. I'll agree of I need security ill go BlackBerry. It's just that I don't need it. I'm not important enough or care enough. You want to see my texts or emails...OK. I could care less. And if more did care maybe BlackBerry wouldn't almost be an afterthought.

    Posted via CB10
    04-14-13 11:42 AM
  17. Jaybles's Avatar
    Sure. I'll agree of I need security ill go BlackBerry. It's just that I don't need it. I'm not important enough or care enough. You want to see my texts or emails...OK. I could care less. And if more did care maybe BlackBerry wouldn't almost be an afterthought.

    Posted via CB10
    I also think quite a few people make a stink about security when they probably have have nothing worth hiding anyway :P

    Posted via CB10
    bobauckland likes this.
    04-14-13 11:48 AM
  18. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    If 70 million subs on BIS couldn't turn a profit for the company do you think they will care about developing the legacy os for th next few years.

    Of course they won't. They will support it as and when they need to but they have a new OS to support and their resources are heavily going towards this. Legacy os support will just slow progress down.

    They have a new business model and they are much likelier to return a profit selling high margin devices. And winning back the BES market.

    As for gulping data. My contract upgraded my data allowance from 500mb to 1gb. I still haven't gone past 500mb. But for some users, yes it's going to use more data. Welcome to the world we live in. Large data on demand is what people want.

    Posted via CB10
    All I'll say to that is doent you think if they wouldn't have spent so much in buying QNX, TAT and other companies and on developing BB10 while taking a big hit on the PlayBooks etc, they'd be sitting on a handsome profit right now?

    They did all that with Legacy money and they still kept 3 billion in the bank.

    Why is Legacy getting the blame for loss in profits?
    04-14-13 11:50 AM
  19. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Isn't it common knowledge that BBRY subsidised some of the legacy devices?
    And that they only lost marketshare, because of the legacy devices?

    Edit: it is one thing, to ignore how a market evolves, but don't insult other peoples intelligence BelfastD, only because they understand the development and some basic accountings (you can exclude accounting, and include heuristics)

    Posted via CB10
    04-14-13 11:59 AM
  20. qbnkelt's Avatar
    IPHONE cane out in 2007. BlackBerry did not respond. They laughed it off. Offered no response until the Storm in 2009ish. Connect didn't happen until BBOS6ISH in 2010ish.



    ****Edit**** I was wrong.

    Blackberry Connect came out at GSM World Congress in 2007. Not sure when it actually launched.

    http://t.crackberry.com/tags/blackberry-connect


    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by qbnkelt; 04-14-13 at 12:10 PM.
    04-14-13 11:59 AM
  21. stundder's Avatar
    IPHONE cane out in 2007. BlackBerry did not respond. They laughed it off. Offered no response until the Storm in 2009ish. Connect didn't happen until BBOS6ISH in 2010ish.



    ****Edit**** I was wrong.

    Blackberry Connect came out at CES in 2007. Not sure when it actually launched.

    Posted via CB10
    I had it on a tytn and tilt 2. Tytn would have been 2008 or 2009 for me..

    It was terrible.

    Posted via CB10
    04-14-13 12:09 PM
  22. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    I also think quite a few people make a stink about security when they probably have have nothing worth hiding anyway :P

    Posted via CB10
    The thing is, everybody has little secrets, that should be hidden from the public. And privacy is becoming a more prominent subject for the people.
    Consumers were really vocal about Sony's breach. Evernote and some Banks also come to mind. We have a lot of breaches lately...
    And the consumers, if slowly and also because the gov has no real legislation that protects them, becomes aware. A lot of people are worried about Google's and FB datamining for exemple.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/05/te...cies.html?_r=0

    Vpn services, TOR, and the other 20k acronyms that are out there, prove this.
    So, BBRY could cater to 2 sorts of consumers. The ones that need privacy/security and the ones that want it, be it, because of a Moral stand, like "Free speech" and the "Postal privacy" or because of a real need. Ask Petraeus, how much he would have loved privacy.


    Posted via CB10
    04-14-13 12:19 PM
  23. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    IPHONE cane out in 2007. BlackBerry did not respond. They laughed it off. Offered no response until the Storm in 2009ish. Connect didn't happen until BBOS6ISH in 2010ish.



    ****Edit**** I was wrong.

    Blackberry Connect came out at GSM World Congress in 2007. Not sure when it actually launched.

    http://t.crackberry.com/tags/blackberry-connect


    Posted via CB10
    I used it in 2008.

    Posted via CB10
    04-14-13 12:23 PM
  24. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Isn't it common knowledge that BBRY subsidised some of the legacy devices?
    And that they only lost marketshare, because of the legacy devices?

    Edit: it is one thing, to ignore how a market evolves, but don't insult other peoples intelligence BelfastD, only because they understand the development and some basic accountings (you can exclude accounting, and include heuristics)

    Posted via CB10
    That's news to me, usually carriers subsidize devices nit the manufacturers.

    Posted via CB10
    04-14-13 12:28 PM
  25. bobauckland's Avatar
    The mobile landscape changed so much since then. That is why reminiscing doesn't help. RIM failed back then, because they couldn't cater to the consumers, and that in the end, corporations are made up of individuals, the consumers.
    They have changed. Nobody "Needs" BIS anymore to get Emails delivered (some want it). Nobody needed connect.
    But what everybody needs, is a little privacy.



    Posted via CB10
    Come on, this is turning into you just pushing your opinion and viewpoint. People don't need privacy. They want it. Just like some people want other things. Like reliable email or data compression. I'd say the explosion of things like FaceBook and InstaGram and similar suggests privacy is pretty low on the average consumer's wish list.

    If 70 million subs on BIS couldn't turn a profit for the company do you think they will care about developing the legacy os for th next few years.

    Of course they won't. They will support it as and when they need to but they have a new OS to support and their resources are heavily going towards this. Legacy os support will just slow progress down.

    They have a new business model and they are much likelier to return a profit selling high margin devices. And winning back the BES market.

    As for gulping data. My contract upgraded my data allowance from 500mb to 1gb. I still haven't gone past 500mb. But for some users, yes it's going to use more data. Welcome to the world we live in. Large data on demand is what people want.

    Posted via CB10
    The things is they're not going to turn a profit selling high margin devices with these devices. Sure hardcore fans will get them. But then, eventually, it will hit a ceiling. What is the real advantage over a similarly priced Android or iOS device? What is the productivity advantage over a legacy BB device? Look at the price of a Z10 on Ebay, it's crashed even faster than the 9900 did after launch. BlackBerries do not hold their value well, either first or second hand, they depreciate very quickly.
    If your device isn't reliable or fun to use, it will not win back the BES market considering people are moving to other OSes in enterprise that do what BlackBerry is trying to do, but better.

    Isn't it common knowledge that BBRY subsidised some of the legacy devices?
    And that they only lost marketshare, because of the legacy devices?

    Edit: it is one thing, to ignore how a market evolves, but don't insult other peoples intelligence BelfastD, only because they understand the development and some basic accountings (you can exclude accounting, and include heuristics)

    Posted via CB10
    You could word it so they lost marketshare on legacy devices. But then they also went 2 years without a new legacy device.
    New legacy device with an upgraded camera and some better apps and who knows where we would be.
    Instead they went all in on QNX and BB10.
    Dunno about your subsidising bit, that seems off to me as well.

    I understand you want to push your point across. I understand you see yourself as right and others as wrong.
    But don't be that guy that says others 'ignore how the market evolves' just because they disagree with you or feel summat else is a priority than you do.
    04-14-13 12:45 PM
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