10-03-15 12:50 PM
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  1. dentynefire's Avatar
    hope?

    a dark horse?

    wishful thinking?

    As I said on another thread, best technology doesn't guarantee great consumer acceptance. There's a need for good content (read: applications), and good marketing. Two things that RIM is in dire need of.
    RIM still targets the enterprise with their ads. They have to target consumers. WTF RIM?
    1812dave likes this.
    11-02-11 12:07 PM
  2. 1812dave's Avatar
    RIM still targets the enterprise with their ads. They have to target consumers. WTF RIM?
    Not only target consumers with ads, but provide hardware/software that appeals to consumers MORE than iOS and Android, otherwise consumers go with non-BB devices.
    11-02-11 12:49 PM
  3. Caymancroc's Avatar
    Yeah, unfortunately RIMM is at a 7 year low at below $19 right now.


    I think today it hit a 9 year low.

    RIM’s Stock Falls Below Book Value on BlackBerry Sales Slump - Businessweek
    11-02-11 03:13 PM
  4. sosumi11's Avatar
    RIM still targets the enterprise with their ads. They have to target consumers. WTF RIM?
    Targeting consumers is not a solution either. Apple won consumers because the consumer electronics industry failed to do software well (Sony, for example). Apple stopped competing with Microsoft a decade ago.

    RIM has the same advantage as Apple as being the only company to build their own hardware and software. However, RIM is not a powerhouse software company. They did not have the luxury of having to put a desktop class operating system into a pocketable device. RIM is finding out that porting the QNX system into a battery powered device is not as easy as they thought and is causing delays.

    What RIM needs to do is find a new "trick" that will entice enterprise to re-adapt the Blackberry brand. This new "trick" means developing powerful, RIM-branded, office solutions software. Innovative, less bloated versions of Excel, Word and PowerPoint that would run exclusively on Playbook and the new BBX devices is essential for RIM to gain faith in the enterprise market. Not Android rewrites.

    Microsoft is about to enter the foray with the Nokia/Win 7 package and there is little doubt that along with xBox integration, Microsoft will have their Office package downsized shortly afterwards.

    Just my opinion, but software (apps) is what is driving fast adaption rates and Google's Android is not a professional system that companies really want to adapt (ad-infested apps).

    Microsoft's brand is. And many companies (consumers) are waiting for Microsoft's solution, because they know they will have one.
    11-02-11 03:40 PM
  5. 1812dave's Avatar
    Targeting consumers is not a solution either. Apple won consumers because the consumer electronics industry failed to do software well (Sony, for example). Apple stopped competing with Microsoft a decade ago.

    RIM has the same advantage as Apple as being the only company to build their own hardware and software. However, RIM is not a powerhouse software company. They did not have the luxury of having to put a desktop class operating system into a pocketable device. RIM is finding out that porting the QNX system into a battery powered device is not as easy as they thought and is causing delays.

    What RIM needs to do is find a new "trick" that will entice enterprise to re-adapt the Blackberry brand. This new "trick" means developing powerful, RIM-branded, office solutions software. Innovative, less bloated versions of Excel, Word and PowerPoint that would run exclusively on Playbook and the new BBX devices is essential for RIM to gain faith in the enterprise market. Not Android rewrites.

    Microsoft is about to enter the foray with the Nokia/Win 7 package and there is little doubt that along with xBox integration, Microsoft will have their Office package downsized shortly afterwards.

    Just my opinion, but software (apps) is what is driving fast adaption rates and Google's Android is not a professional system that companies really want to adapt (ad-infested apps).

    Microsoft's brand is. And many companies (consumers) are waiting for Microsoft's solution, because they know they will have one.
    Just a second. I infer from that comment, that you don't think any other mfgr or OS stands a chance. Yes/no? You MUST know that Android's market share is HUGE. Right???

    If, OTOH, what you MEANT, is that RIM doesn't KNOW how to court the average consumer, than I agree.
    11-02-11 03:42 PM
  6. sosumi11's Avatar
    Just a second. I infer from that comment, that you don't think any other mfgr or OS stands a chance. Yes/no? You MUST know that Android's market share is HUGE. Right???
    Android's market share lead is really smoke and mirrors. Consumers are buying Android phones because they are cheap or free. Most are using the phones just for email, texting and games. RIM must focus on PAYING customers. Apple's iOS is dominating the high end, RIM must focus on the corporate customer who will still pay for a premium solution for the business executive.

    If, OTOH, what you MEANT, is that RIM doesn't KNOW how to court the average consumer, than I agree.
    RIM doesn't know and should totally ignore them.

    Focus on their installed base and give corporations a solid, walled garden. But within that garden must be software packages that are unique to RIM. By targeting consumer and corporate customers they are being perceived as wishy washy.

    It is all about software. Build the software first and the hardware second.

    Not the other way around.
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    11-02-11 04:01 PM
  7. 1812dave's Avatar
    Android's market share lead is really smoke and mirrors. Consumers are buying Android phones because they are cheap or free. Most are using the phones just for email, texting and games. RIM must focus on PAYING customers. Apple's iOS is dominating the high end, RIM must focus on the corporate customer who will still pay for a premium solution for the business executive.



    RIM doesn't know and should totally ignore them.

    Focus on their installed base and give corporations a solid, walled garden. But within that garden must be software packages that are unique to RIM. By targeting consumer and corporate customers they are being perceived as wishy washy.

    It is all about software. Build the software first and the hardware second.

    Not the other way around.
    HAHA!!! Cheap or free?? Mine was $300. and I paid for it GLADLY.

    where do get these ideas, anyway??

    If it's all about the s/w, what is your beef with the popular OS, Android? It sure beats RIM's efforts to date, and arguably, Apple's but that's another discussion.
    11-02-11 04:12 PM
  8. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Android's market share lead is really smoke and mirrors. Consumers are buying Android phones because they are cheap or free. Most are using the phones just for email, texting and games. RIM must focus on PAYING customers. Apple's iOS is dominating the high end, RIM must focus on the corporate customer who will still pay for a premium solution for the business executive.



    RIM doesn't know and should totally ignore them.

    Focus on their installed base and give corporations a solid, walled garden. But within that garden must be software packages that are unique to RIM. By targeting consumer and corporate customers they are being perceived as wishy washy.

    It is all about software. Build the software first and the hardware second.

    Not the other way around.
    Consumerization Of IT Is No Fad
    11-02-11 04:17 PM
  9. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    Android's market share lead is really smoke and mirrors. Consumers are buying Android phones because they are cheap or free. Most are using the phones just for email, texting and games. RIM must focus on PAYING customers. Apple's iOS is dominating the high end, RIM must focus on the corporate customer who will still pay for a premium solution for the business executive.
    You're kidding right? Samsung and HTC would disagree.
    1812dave, howarmat and techvisor like this.
    11-02-11 04:57 PM
  10. pseudo7's Avatar
    I would argue that targeting consumers would be nigh-impossible for RIM. The state of mobile today is you invest in and are locked into an ecosystem and I just can't imagine anything RIM could offer to entice consumers to walk away from what Google and Apple offer them.
    11-02-11 05:16 PM
  11. sosumi11's Avatar
    HAHA!!! Cheap or free?? Mine was $300. and I paid for it GLADLY.
    Is HTC or Samsung selling 20 million $300 phones a quarter?
    11-02-11 05:32 PM
  12. 00stryder's Avatar
    I can see that the discussion has moved past earlier comments, but I just wanted to reply to the questions directed towards my particular post (just got home not too long ago).

    It hit the 52 week low today like I posted. I did not say it closed at the 52 week low. The shorts had to cover after their good day and reload for tomorrow.

    Why are you only talking about today? And not the 52 weeks in which the main competitors(caugh leaders) aapl and goog went up?

    With aapl's massive cash flow and goog's future acquisiton of motorla mobility, things are looking great for RIMM.

    And listing hpq is a joke. Why not compare rimm with the qqqq, oh wait, rimm is way, way down compared to an etf for the nasdaq.
    I understand what you were trying to say, but in the way that you presented the topic, it could be misinterpreted as an attempt to start a RIM vs. Apple war. No doubt it's great to be an Apple stock owner right now, I'm just saying that you should give the people the whole picture so that the discussion doesn't deteriorate into a mindless argument about which platform is better. Returning here, I see that civility has been maintained.

    As for listing Hewlett-Packard, yeah I know they're pretty much defunct in the mobile device business, but like I said I was just including it for completion sake. If you also notice in my posting, I did not offer an opinion as to how I personally felt about the RIMM stock. Personally, I'm quite pissed (as a potential soon-to-be ex-owner) and worried about RIM's future. Despite my personal opinions, I still think that it's important that we understand the whole picture. I won't even attempt to claim that I know more about the market than you or anybody else here (because I don't), but nevertheless I thought it was important to include that other information as well. You are correct though, RIMM hit the 52-week low and is now even below that. Lord help us all.

    The thread is called "Rimm hit a 52 week low today."


    You can view RIMM's stock in isolation. Market conditions aren't the reason it's lost 86%.
    I read the title of the thread and understood what the OP meant to say when he started this discussion, but as I said above, I was just adding more to the overall picture. I did not offer my opinions as to what any of this meant. Nor did I say that the market conditions were to blame for the current value of RIMM stock. You are correct in saying that you can view it in isolation, but I think it's unfair for readers that have not been watching the market to get the idea that there isn't more to the story.

    Umm, aapl is showing great relative strength against the broader market. It stands only 6% from its historic high. That is not "significantly lower" in a market you say is beat up.
    At AAPL's current price all you say is true, and I did not mean to insinuate that the stock is also in trouble. I simply meant to illustrate the fact that the stock also lost value and has been doing so over the past few days. How far it is from it's 52-week high was not the focus of my post. I didn't say it lost a lot of value, I said a significant amount; and at ~$400/stock, 6% is quite a few dollars.

    In all of this, all I meant to do with my post was to add more information to the discussion. Again I have made no claims as to what it means or where RIM stands in all of this. As a BlackBerry user and investor, I'm quite worried right now. I'll hope for the best, but I'll do so wearily. I just hope that they find a way to keep Jim quiet long enough to release something game-changing again and get the public talking about BlackBerries again.
    mustangv8 and DPSydBerry like this.
    11-02-11 05:35 PM
  13. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    Is HTC or Samsung selling 20 million $300 phones a quarter?
    HTC hasn't yet (I don't think anyway, haven't looked at HTC specifically lately). But Samsung has.
    11-02-11 05:36 PM
  14. sosumi11's Avatar
    From your link:

    Microsoft is starting to get it. In positioning its forthcoming Office 365 suite, which includes online and on-premises versions of Office, Exchange, SharePoint, and Lync...
    Terry Myerson, VP of Windows Phone engineering, says he no longer considers RIM's BlackBerry, supported by the security and management of its BlackBerry Enterprise Server, Microsoft's chief rival in the business smartphone market. "I would have said that several years ago," he says, "but not now." Myerson adds: "At the front door, RIM has a very good position due to the BES. But in terms of units and influence, I think the back door [read: iOS and Android] is driving more innovation."
    RIM needs more RIM-developed (read: proprietary) tools than BES and BBM.

    A lot more.
    11-02-11 05:45 PM
  15. sevusal's Avatar
    RIM share price is below its book value and investor asking for liquidation.

    who to blame? the naive management!!
    11-02-11 05:48 PM
  16. sosumi11's Avatar
    HTC hasn't yet (I don't think anyway, haven't looked at HTC specifically lately). But Samsung has.
    Samsung just announced that they shipped (not sold) 27 million smartphones. How many consumers actually PAYING $300? Here is what Amazon offers and note how many are a penny with contract.

    Samsung smartphones on Amazon
    11-02-11 05:53 PM
  17. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    Samsung just announced that they shipped (not sold) 27 million smartphones. How many consumers actually PAYING $300? Here is what Amazon offers and note how many are a penny with contract.
    Perhaps not always at the $300 price point, but not sure where you're trying to go with that line of reasoning. Every phone manufacturer offers deals after their initial launch, BOGO offers (RIM quite often), and discounts with contract. Regardless the brand of smartphone, whether it's BB, Apple, Android, WP7, data plans all cost the same as well. Look around and you can find the same deals for all other brands. And if you look carefully across the carriers, you'll find BB device prices are actually lower on average.

    As for Shipped vs Sold... It's not a large stretch (since Samsung doesn't release actual sales numbers) to look at 27million and come to a very reasonable conclusion that there are less than 7 million devices just sitting on shelves.
    Last edited by rmjones101; 11-02-11 at 06:13 PM.
    11-02-11 06:10 PM
  18. sosumi11's Avatar
    Perhaps not always at the $300 price point, but not sure where you're trying to go with that line of reasoning. Every phone manufacturer offers deals after their initial launch, BOGO offers (RIM quite often), and discounts with contract.
    Not every phone manufacturer.

    Apple and their carriers do not offer BOGO iPhone deals.
    Apple and their carriers do not offer penny iPhones (except on 2 year old iPhone).
    Apple and their carriers do not offer $50 iPhones (except on last year's iPhone).
    Apple sold FOUR MILLION +$200 4S's in a weekend!

    This is why the Android market share numbers are big. It's all about the price of the phone to the consumer.

    Sure there are some premium Android phones out there, but none of them are producing iPhone-like numbers.


    And if you look carefully across the carriers, you'll find BB device prices are actually lower on average.
    Once price becomes a feature, the product becomes a commodity.
    Last edited by sosumi11; 11-02-11 at 06:52 PM.
    11-02-11 06:49 PM
  19. mithrazor's Avatar
    HAHA!!! Cheap or free?? Mine was $300. and I paid for it GLADLY.

    where do get these ideas, anyway??

    If it's all about the s/w, what is your beef with the popular OS, Android? It sure beats RIM's efforts to date, and arguably, Apple's but that's another discussion.
    There are a lot of cheap and free phones actually. Criket has a few. Matter fact, when it was time to upgrade, we got 4 lines upgraded to LG Optimus T's. Those were free with the upgrades.

    And I'm sure I'm not the only one that did that.

    My point is, there are many people getting the cheap and free Android phones. As there are buying the high end ones.
    11-02-11 10:50 PM
  20. Economist101's Avatar
    It sure beats RIM's efforts to date, and arguably, Apple's but that's another discussion.
    Former FTC official and current Google employee Susan Creighton told the committee that Apple's iOS devices accounted for 2/3 of Google's mobile-search traffic.

    Google Tells Senate That iOS Dominates Mobile Search

    Note that the source of that piece isn't some analytics firm, it's Google itself. It's why, despite Android's significant marketshare, Google still pays Apple for default search engine placement on iOS devices.
    11-02-11 11:05 PM
  21. the_sleuth's Avatar
    Having an IOS install base of 190+ million devices (iPods, iPhone, and iPads) means Apple will dominate mobile traffic for sometime.

    Former FTC official and current Google employee Susan Creighton told the committee that Apple's iOS devices accounted for 2/3 of Google's mobile-search traffic.

    Google Tells Senate That iOS Dominates Mobile Search

    Note that the source of that piece isn't some analytics firm, it's Google itself. It's why, despite Android's significant marketshare, Google still pays Apple for default search engine placement on iOS devices.
    11-02-11 11:28 PM
  22. mustangv8's Avatar
    It hit the 52 week low today like I posted. I did not say it closed at the 52 week low. The shorts had to cover after their good day and reload for tomorrow.

    Why are you only talking about today? And not the 52 weeks in which the main competitors(caugh leaders) aapl and goog went up?

    With aapl's massive cash flow and goog's future acquisiton of motorla mobility, things are looking great for RIMM.

    And listing hpq is a joke. Why not compare rimm with the qqqq, oh wait, rimm is way, way down compared to an etf for the nasdaq.
    Wow, looks like I was right Market was up again today and once again RIMM was down. It hit a new 52 week low again today. Like I said yesterday, just shorts reloading that brought it up at the close.
    11-03-11 12:27 AM
  23. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    Interesting view.

    I quoted this "The consumerization trend, he says, sometimes requires separating consumer and enterprise functionality on the same app or device"
    While MS and others will do their way, RIM will Balance ... and the real game will then begin.
    11-03-11 07:39 AM
  24. mustangv8's Avatar
    11/9/11. Rimm hit another new low today at 18.09. Anyone dare buy tomorrow in the 17s? I would accumulate, but I have no faith in the market currently. Felt great to cover my tna short this am for 3.85 gain from the close yesterday.
    Think rimm may be in a position to trade in the 17s, just depends on the overall market to those looking for the risk. I'd rather just take positions in a leveraged etn to trade or just go by the dow marker with dia.
    Anyone trading rimm at the new 52 week low?
    11-09-11 11:02 PM
  25. ADGrant's Avatar
    RIMM is now in the low 17s. It's lost another dollar or so today.
    mustangv8 likes this.
    11-10-11 10:20 AM
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