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05-28-18 01:07 AM
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  1. conite's Avatar
    I'm not trying to compare sources. My point is a puff piece interview with a CEO is not authoritative for anything.

    Posted via CB10
    Define "puff".

    Plus, it aligns EXACTLY with what many of us have been saying for years based on all of the other available information.
    05-23-18 05:01 PM
  2. markmall's Avatar
    Define "puff".

    Plus, it aligns EXACTLY with what many of us have been saying for years based on all of the other available information.
    A group of people repeating the self-serving statements of the CEO does not translate into fact.

    Posted via CB10
    05-23-18 05:39 PM
  3. conite's Avatar
    A group of people repeating the self-serving statements of the CEO does not translate into fact.

    Posted via CB10
    We talked about it years before Chen said anything about it. As a matter of fact, as confirmed in the article (and by you repeatedly), he was saying the opposite at the time.
    Last edited by conite; 05-23-18 at 06:24 PM.
    05-23-18 05:41 PM
  4. markmall's Avatar
    We talked about it years before Chen said anything about it. As a matter of fact, as confirmed in the article (and by you repeatedly), he was saying the opposite at the time.
    Here is also how we know that the article is a puff piece: announcing a $4.4B loss was not a "task" for him when he came on. New CEO's will frequently clear the decks and write down goodwill and other things so that they maximize the loss before they are responsible for the company's performance.

    Also, I was trading BBRY during this period of time and years before. No one thought it was at risk of imminent bankruptcy. No investors were watching their phones waiting for the news story about a BK filing. Yes, it could have gotten that bad in the future but it was never close to this.

    Posted via CB10
    05-23-18 11:03 PM
  5. vladi's Avatar
    Such as?

    And keep in mind that WhatsApp, Facebook Messenger, and Telegram do it for free.
    And Viber is selling stickers like crazy! Mind you BBM was one of the first to introduce channels that were somewhat like Snapchat sponsored stories or something. They didn't do much with it.

    Overall it's not up to me to tell them how to make money that's why they have people they are paying for to do so. It's their misfortune those people can only come up with spam messages. What's next? Sports Betting add-on? Texas Hold 'em add-on?
    elfabio80 likes this.
    05-24-18 03:17 AM
  6. Thud Hardsmack's Avatar
    No one thought it was at risk of imminent bankruptcy. No investors were watching their phones waiting for the news story about a BK filing.
    You must be new here. There's a few hundred threads and thousands of posts saying otherwise.
    05-24-18 03:47 AM
  7. conite's Avatar
    Here is also how we know that the article is a puff piece: announcing a $4.4B loss was not a "task" for him when he came on.
    Dec 2013:

    Chen announced the results - one month after his hire.

    https://crackberry.com/press-release...-2014-earnings

    "GAAP loss from continuing operations of $4.4 billion, or $8.37 per share diluted"

    "With the operational and organizational changes we have announced, BlackBerry has established a clear roadmap that will allow it to target a return to improved financial performance in the coming year," said John Chen, Executive Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of BlackBerry.
    05-24-18 05:29 AM
  8. conite's Avatar
    Overall it's not up to me to tell them how to make money that's why they have people they are paying for to do so.
    There are only so many things they can do. I'm sure they would be all ears if you had some outside of the box suggestion.
    05-24-18 05:40 AM
  9. stlabrat's Avatar
    It was an investigative journalist by one of the top business papers in Canada, interviewing the CEO of BlackBerry.

    What do you have?
    That book they wrote afterwards are not totally true, however, it is based on chaps they interviewed those have all the motive to cover the track to make them look better. History is full of lies that written by either the Victor, or the loser who had hard time to look at himself in the mirror. Just like Mr president, anything his predecessors did need to be dismantled, drained bb juice. (just like the WH backyard, it got a hole in BBM or bb10).

    Posted via CB10
    05-24-18 05:48 AM
  10. markmall's Avatar
    You must be new here. There's a few hundred threads and thousands of posts saying otherwise.
    I'm not talking about a fansite. I'm talking about investors. No one thought BlackBerry would have to declare bankruptcy in the immediate future.

    Posted via CB10
    05-24-18 11:29 AM
  11. conite's Avatar
    I'm not talking about a fansite. I'm talking about investors. No one thought BlackBerry would have to declare bankruptcy in the immediate future.

    Posted via CB10
    But you don't believe Chen, Blackberry, journalists, analysts, financial statements, guidance, or any other hard evidence that is brought to bear. So why would you now believe an investor from 2013?

    Prem was an investor. He knew he had to inject a billion dollars into the company for it to live another day.
    05-24-18 11:55 AM
  12. stlabrat's Avatar
    "'For better offer, BlackBerry could pay $250 mn break fee'
    The USD 250 million break fee would come due the day after control changes at Blackberry, according to the filing. If Fairfax and its partners agree to go ahead with the deal even after a change of control, Blackberry would still have to pay the group USD 135 million."

    Chen if change control, would paid 6million (instead current 86 million).

    Posted via CB10
    05-24-18 01:22 PM
  13. Thud Hardsmack's Avatar
    I'm not talking about a fansite. I'm talking about investors. No one thought BlackBerry would have to declare bankruptcy in the immediate future.

    Posted via CB10
    You know full well this fansite has posts by investors discussing other sites' news about investors, and also that outside of CrackBerry and UTB they were pretty much calling for them to sell or declare bankruptcy.
    05-24-18 02:16 PM
  14. markmall's Avatar
    by investors discussing other sites' news about investors, and also that outside of CrackBerry and UTB they were pretty much calling for them to sell or
    Who was calling for them to declare bankruptcy? They were not close to insolvent.

    The only person on this site that did financial analysis at the time was Chris... Umi... I don't recall his last name now but he lost interest after the acquisition.

    Once again, no one thought that the company was going to file BK unless no one bought them and their fortunes continued to be awful for more quarters.

    When a company is rumored to be declaring BK, the news spreads and often gets reported. None of this happened with BBRY.
    05-24-18 08:06 PM
  15. markmall's Avatar
    Here is what Chris wrote all those years ago about the Prem investment. It's obvious that he didn't think the company was on the verge of BK. He talked about the cash as providing fuel for a turnaround -- not to stave off eminent financial collapse:

    "That said, the financing BlackBerry has arranged with Fairfax is a smart plan all around. It gives the company more cash to execute a turnaround whereas a privatization of the company would clearly NOT have done so. That's the big difference, and that's why I like the deal. It gives this company more bullets to fight, not fewer."

    https://crackberry.com/fairfax-investment-one-day-later
    05-24-18 08:36 PM
  16. conite's Avatar
    Who was calling for them to declare bankruptcy? They were not close to insolvent.
    I will have to take Chen's word over yours on this one. He had a tad more info at his fingertips that you and I (or Chris) ever will.
    05-24-18 09:09 PM
  17. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Here is what Chris wrote all those years ago about the Prem investment. It's obvious that he didn't think the company was on the verge of BK. He talked about the cash as providing fuel for a turnaround -- not to stave off eminent financial collapse:

    "That said, the financing BlackBerry has arranged with Fairfax is a smart plan all around. It gives the company more cash to execute a turnaround whereas a privatization of the company would clearly NOT have done so. That's the big difference, and that's why I like the deal. It gives this company more bullets to fight, not fewer."

    https://crackberry.com/fairfax-investment-one-day-later
    By definition, extended negative cash flow with reserves depleted would lead to bankruptcy. The complete rejection of BB10 by consumers in the first six months of 2013 was so unexpected but the warnings had been sounded by analysts since the BB10 delayed rollout. Need for a turnaround described how company was going in the wrong direction.
    05-24-18 10:54 PM
  18. markmall's Avatar
    By definition, extended negative cash flow with reserves depleted would lead to bankruptcy. The complete rejection of BB10 by consumers in the first six months of 2013 was so unexpected but the warnings had been sounded by analysts since the BB10 delayed rollout. Need for a turnaround described how company was going in the wrong direction.
    Our debate was focused on exactly how close they were to filing a BK petition. He said any moment. I said no one believed it at the time because it wasn't happening. Chen has incentive to paint a dire picture before he started because it makes him look better.
    elfabio80 likes this.
    05-25-18 02:19 AM
  19. markmall's Avatar
    By definition, extended negative cash flow with reserves depleted would lead to bankruptcy. The complete rejection of BB10 by consumers in the first six months of 2013 was so unexpected but the warnings had been sounded by analysts since the BB10 delayed rollout. Need for a turnaround described how company was going in the wrong direction.
    Another thing: they did not have reserves depleted at the time because they were flush with real estate and other assets they could leverage. This is why BK was not an immediate risk but a longer term one.
    stlabrat likes this.
    05-25-18 02:24 AM
  20. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    What investors taught of BlackBerry's chances at the end of 2013.... stock was almost $6 a share, so in my mind that means many didn't think much of their chances.

    The losses weren't just the one quarter that Chen announced the huge loss... that was a trend. But yeah they had enough cash to keep that going for awhile, so no BK wasn't imminent. But things can snowball out of control, if PREM and CHEN had not offered some sort of reasonable plan and showed some signs of making headway over the next few quarters. Sales would have bottomed out due to a lack in confidence, while cost would have driven them towards BK much quicker than their reserves would have held out.

    But getting spending under control meant no "investing" into products that were deemed "dead"..... BB10 and BBM I expect were both triage as having no chance. But Chen did still try to talk them up as having a future, and that's what some of the FAN investors locked onto.... Chen mislead them and now they feel betrayed that those products never got a fair chance.

    Me I look at what Microsoft sunk into Windows Mobile, and I think.... Chen made the right call.
    05-25-18 10:17 AM
  21. stlabrat's Avatar
    Ddd,are you the bb stock holder? Please say yes..

    Posted via CB10
    05-25-18 12:56 PM
  22. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Ddd,are you the bb stock holder? Please say yes..

    Posted via CB10
    No.... I've watched it since before superfly made his post. Has always been to risky trade, unless you are like Morgan smart enough to trading on the ups and downs. But investment.... was still $70 when I first paid attention too it, and I don't think it will see $70 again in my lifetime. But did consider a few times when it went below $7.... but money was else place.

    I did follow most all of Chris Blogs on the company each quarter, and back then he did post in the forums too. Things got a little ugly when his outlook didn't match the expatiation of the investor "core" that was hanging on and believing every word Chen said, even when it didn't match their actions.

    I simply think Chen played the best game with the cards he was dealt. Time to save "BlackBerry" as we knew it, was 2005... not 2013.
    StephanieMaks likes this.
    05-25-18 02:02 PM
  23. stlabrat's Avatar
    I have both bb and Microsoft. Holding bb stock from more than 100 to now. I would say, I like Microsoft far better than bb, both in terms of stock value, company assets, and ceo vision and future. I saw bb assets, hard and soft disappear, building, talent, and customer base diluted as ceo salary increase. I read interim and annual reports and elect board of directors. Compare two companies, Microsoft beats bb hands down. IMHO. I think if you so admire Chen, add few bb stock in your pocket will do a justice . At least you will follow it closely by attending share holder meeting and read proposals, and most of all, see what caliber of directors that OK 86 million departure package, for a company this size.

    Posted via CB10
    elfabio80 likes this.
    05-25-18 03:29 PM
  24. markmall's Avatar
    I have both bb and Microsoft. Holding bb stock from more than 100 to now. I would say, I like Microsoft far better than bb, both in terms of stock value, company assets, and ceo vision and future. I saw bb assets, hard and soft disappear, building, talent, and customer base diluted as ceo salary increase. I read interim and annual reports and elect board of directors. Compare two companies, Microsoft beats bb hands down. IMHO. I think if you so admire Chen, add few bb stock in your pocket will do a justice . At least you will follow it closely by attending share holder meeting and read proposals, and most of all, see what caliber of directors that OK 86 million departure package, for a company this size.

    Posted via CB10
    Bravo. As a former shareholder, I agree. I bailed when I realized he wasn't serious about selling their core product and had no vision for the future. At least Prem is getting his money out on his debt. Chen is getting Steve Jobs money for selling everything not bolted down (and bolted down) and firing everyone but his house staff in Palo Alto. Sure hope he gambled on some good companies that will be the next big thing.

    Posted via CB10
    05-25-18 10:18 PM
  25. conite's Avatar
    I realized he wasn't serious about selling their core product and had no vision for the future.
    BlackBerry's core products were BIS and BES.

    When the former disappeared, Chen was forced to dump devices (BB10 was folly) and double down on enterprise.

    Where is the lack of vision? It's been laser-focused since he arrived.
    05-25-18 10:25 PM
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