11-15-13 05:20 AM
70 123
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  1. morlock_man's Avatar
    Sorry, you are correct. Good beat RIM when the were taken over by Visto.

    In a further development, we were both wrong, and right, about the CAL question. A perpetual CAL is $99. An annual CAL is $19.
    Ahhh... perpetual licensing. Well, that makes more sense.

    As to the whole Visto issue, they sued Good too prior to buying them out. They're paired up with Patent trolls like NTP for the most part and sued RIM over patents related to the wireless transmission of email that the UK threw out of the court for being too obvious. But American courts are willing to offer damages in the ranges of hundreds of millions (if not a billion) for perceived infringements of things like rubber band-animations and rounded corners on devices made by American companies.
    11-14-13 12:17 PM
  2. Chicago777Guy's Avatar
    Chicago, if you want to keep it logical and fact based, then I'd suggest you revisit the thread title. Further, I really think you need to look a bit further on how BES10 supports iOS and Android. Sorry to use the site again, but they are the BB experts. So, if we are talking purely enterprise, what makes BES10 the best? How is the BB NOC better than the Good NOC? You willing to lose your entire network due to someone else's NOC going down?

    Everything you need to know about BlackBerry Enterprise Server 10 | CrackBerry.com
    Good does not have any NOC...all they have is very vanilla ugly looking containers...they are no match to BlackBerry security.
    If you read history of Good you will know why...all they have been doing I'd stealing BlackBerry design...they were actually vendor for BlackBerry until they started doing copyright violations and were sued by bb...Once again when it comes security there is no match.One area where they are No 1.

    Posted via CB10
    11-14-13 12:27 PM
  3. app_Developer's Avatar
    Good does not have any NOC...all they have is very vanilla ugly looking containers...they are no match to BlackBerry security.
    Good does use a NOC. I sat in a briefing a couple of years ago where they talked about their expansion plans for that NOC.

    I think people take as matter of faith that BlackBerry is still years ahead of everyone else in security. I think this was quite true years ago, but other companies have come a long way since, and in general technology has evolved since then.


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    11-14-13 12:39 PM
  4. morlock_man's Avatar
    The funny part is that BES just became device agnostic in the last quarter.

    That opens the door not only to existing BlackBerry-using companies who have a BYOD policy, but to companies that don't own a single BBRY device who want access to their secure workspace (aka: walled-garden within a picket-fence) to prevent data loss. Simplified management and access to a level of security used by heads of state.

    Also, since Good/Visto/Good has a licensing agreement with BBRY, while the Visto-BBRY suit resulted in a single settlement, anything that increases Good's revenue stream also therefore increases BBRY's stream as they pay out licensing. Right now BBRY is just aiming for a larger slice of the pie.
    11-14-13 12:44 PM
  5. m1a1mg's Avatar
    Good does not have any NOC...all they have is very vanilla ugly looking containers...they are no match to BlackBerry security.
    If you read history of Good you will know why...all they have been doing I'd stealing BlackBerry design...they were actually vendor for BlackBerry until they started doing copyright violations and were sued by bb...Once again when it comes security there is no match.One area where they are No 1.

    Posted via CB10
    Good does indeed use a NOC.

    Good's high-availability NOC leverages AES-encrypted transport of content to and from mobile devices – giving IT the tools they need to protect against data loss and theft while enforcing policy compliance.

    I know you believe in BB and I respect that, but you can't always assume that BB is still the best at everything secure. They are very capable, but the competition has been gaining for years. And don't forget, when RIM first started, they got sued quite a bit as well.
    11-14-13 12:46 PM
  6. m1a1mg's Avatar
    The funny part is that BES just became device agnostic in the last quarter.

    That opens the door not only to existing BlackBerry-using companies who have a BYOD policy, but to companies that don't own a single BBRY device who want access to their secure workspace (aka: walled-garden within a picket-fence) to prevent data loss. Simplified management and access to a level of security used by heads of state.

    Also, since Good/Visto/Good has a licensing agreement with BBRY, while the Visto-BBRY suit resulted in a single settlement, anything that increases Good's revenue stream also therefore increases BBRY's stream as they pay out licensing. Right now BBRY is just aiming for a larger slice of the pie.
    I honestly don't know the answer as to whether or not they had a one time settlement or Visto/Good still pays annual fees. I couldn't find the answer. Just like trying to figure out whether or not the NSA's payment of $25 M to Certicom was forever or for a certain term.
    11-14-13 12:49 PM
  7. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    let's sum up ?

    - BES is the reference competitors refer to (NEQ the best in every situation)
    - BES have valid competitors, even in multi-install situations, for BYOD purposes
    - BES is known and respected for efficiency and security for BB devices
    - Other vendors claim they can match BES level of security provided they don't use BlackBerries (then, there is no match, at all)
    - BES 10 is now supporting other devices (iOs, Android) for the first time, several limitations applies
    - BlackBerry network is not "alone" in the market, but - so far I know - have unmatched size, failover and operator connections (is that 1600+ ?)
    - Multi-brand Balance / Secure Work Space is a BlackBerry BES exclusive feature (not containers, IBM does it for connectors for years)
    - Adopting BES10 may reduce CALS for other brands
    - Droping BES will imply to quit the high secure level with BB/BES top-to-bottom = abandon BB devices
    - ECC is patented by BB in the U.S.A but as of date is the only widespread and long proven bullet proof supplier in the mobile area (on can always try to reinvent the wheel)

    Conclusion 1 : they're all set, in a comfortable position to make it append.
    Conclusion 2 : don't mess this one. Competitors are angry and hungry.
    morlock_man likes this.
    11-14-13 01:02 PM
  8. chr1sny's Avatar
    Good does use a NOC. I sat in a briefing a couple of years ago where they talked about their expansion plans for that NOC.

    I think people take as matter of faith that BlackBerry is still years ahead of everyone else in security. I think this was quite true years ago, but other companies have come a long way since, and in general technology has evolved since then.


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    Don't say that. That goes against the party lines of:

    1) 3.4 billion in the bank and no debt
    2) BBRY is light years ahead of everyone else in security
    3) BBRY is more efficient for productivity (AKA Tools not toys)
    11-14-13 01:11 PM
  9. m1a1mg's Avatar
    EDIT: This was directed at Super but someone else posted in between.

    Well thought out and essentially correct.

    I'm afraid I lean more towards #2, I'm sure you are at #1. Only time will tell.
    11-14-13 01:13 PM
  10. morlock_man's Avatar
    In the long term (I believe) they simply have better prospects than the competition.

    Look at the bigger picture, who has all the pieces they need in place to create a completely secure mobile computing platform?

    Who has primary access to the security patents that they're licensing to Microsoft, HP, Nokia, Samsung, Good, Sony, Google, etc?

    Who has a device running the only RTOS with a fully modular microkernel that simplifies updating the code significantly over monolithic codebases?

    The real trouble that BBRY has had in rolling out BB10 has been the underlying coding requirements of developing a brand new OS. Once the major features that have to interact across the platform have been implemented, smaller features that access these major features become easier to implement due to the unified messaging structure between modules.

    10.2 completed all of the coding for functionality in the underlying OS. 10.2.1 adds new features that make use of the new underlying functionality because there is less risk of breaking the major OS (or minor) features at this point.

    Updates should begin to appear more frequently and the implementation of functions commonly requested by users that rely on superficial data manipulation and filtering techniques or options are much easier to implement.

    The only company that has all the pieces they need to make a truly great computing platform that has the potential to be completely secure is BBRY. Everyone else has a piece of the puzzle, but they're also licensing copies of BBRY's pieces. BBRY is the only company that seems to have all the pieces, but just needs more time to develop them.

    Finally...

    Have you seen anyone root a BB10 phone?
    11-14-13 01:13 PM
  11. m1a1mg's Avatar
    Morlock, I know you, like Super, truly believe and I can respect that. But things are stacking up against BB.

    Pfizer Ditching BlackBerry Over ’Volatile’ State of Maker - Bloomberg
    11-14-13 01:20 PM
  12. the_real_mikeyb's Avatar
    Guys! Stop throwing links around and get back to reality!

    BlackBerry does not compete with mobile iron and all the other providers!

    My company is not the first and definitely not the last to move away from BES. It's a fact.

    Look at how aggressively mobileiron and Co have been marketing and pursuing companies currently on BES for business.

    Posted via CB10
    11-14-13 01:21 PM
  13. morlock_man's Avatar
    Morlock, I know you, like Super, truly believe and I can respect that. But things are stacking up against BB.

    Pfizer Ditching BlackBerry Over €™Volatile€™ State of Maker - Bloomberg
    “We never go out in the media and talk about our service providers,” said Joan Campion, a Pfizer spokeswoman.

    Pfffft.

    It's not a matter of simple 'belief'.

    It's a matter of time. Someone doesn't invent the wheel and just let it sit there. BBRY's board is making another run at it, but if they fail and BBRY gets broken up and sold for nothing and I lose my stock, it won't bother me. Just as long as someone takes up the technology they developed and makes a good honest run with it.

    From a technologists standpoint, it's just that good. It needs to be applied.

    By BBRY, by Apple, by Google, by Walmart... I don't care. Just build a good future-proof mobile computing platform and get it out there. Enough with this 'only 2 major players' cr@p.

    If an OS is developed that is functionally superior to the previous ones, not superficially superior, but the hardcore virtues of stability, security and reliability, why would we want to keep running enterprise and industry on outdated, buggy, vulnerable cr@p?
    11-14-13 01:25 PM
  14. m1a1mg's Avatar
    “We never go out in the media and talk about our service providers,” said Joan Campion, a Pfizer spokeswoman.

    Pfffft.
    Bloomberg's record recently has been pretty darned good. Ignore at your own folly.
    11-14-13 01:28 PM
  15. app_Developer's Avatar
    - Other vendors claim they can match BES level of security provided they don't use BlackBerries (then, there is no match, at all)
    - BES 10 is now supporting other devices (iOs, Android) for the first time, several limitations applies
    I think this is a critical point in the decision to continue with devices. The more employees you have on iOS and Android, the less interesting BES10 becomes. The major advantages of BES are apparent when managing BlackBerry devices.

    If they stop making devices, does BES10 become a smaller business? Is the BlackBerry brand strong enough to make BES10 a strong choice in a company that is full of iPhones and Androids?
    11-14-13 01:28 PM
  16. app_Developer's Avatar
    “We never go out in the media and talk about our service providers,” said Joan Campion, a Pfizer spokeswoman.

    Pfffft.
    People here say "Pfffft" at every negative story, but then every quarter the actual numbers seem to confirm most of the negative stories.
    m1a1mg likes this.
    11-14-13 01:30 PM
  17. morlock_man's Avatar
    People here say "Pfffft" at every negative story, but then every quarter the actual numbers seem to confirm most of the negative stories.
    The 'pfffft' wasn't at the negative story.

    It was in regards to why I support the technology, if not the company. See attached rhetoric.

    I just found it funny that they'd issue a press statement to say they had no press statement.
    11-14-13 01:47 PM
  18. OMGitworks's Avatar
    I will leave the technical stuff to the seemingly well informed folks here on both sides of the issue. What hasn't been discussed and what may actually be at least as important is momentum and perception. On both of those fronts, BBRY is in very serious trouble. They lost momentum and are on the verge or may be past the point of no return on perception. Where they once benefited from both heavily in the past, they now appear to be a big problem for BBRY. JMHO.....
    m1a1mg likes this.
    11-14-13 02:02 PM
  19. Chicago777Guy's Avatar
    Good does indeed use a NOC.

    Good's high-availability NOC leverages AES-encrypted transport of content to and from mobile devices giving IT the tools they need to protect against data loss and theft while enforcing policy compliance.

    I know you believe in BB and I respect that, but you can't always assume that BB is still the best at everything secure. They are very capable, but the competition has been gaining for years. And don't forget, when RIM first started, they got sued quite a bit as well.
    Let me verify that. I'm open to knowing facts and accepting them if they are correct.

    Posted via CB10
    11-14-13 03:45 PM
  20. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    Don't say that. That goes against the party lines of:
    1) 3.4 billion in the bank and no debt
    Make it ~$4Bil (with $1Bil tax refund: there's also a positive point relative to bad sales) with $1Bil bounds, to be more accurate.
    Makes net cash $3Bil.

    But we're sliding OT ... there's a thread for that
    11-15-13 05:20 AM
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