11-15-13 06:20 AM
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  1. m1a1mg's Avatar
    M1 question for you...why was Air watch all over BlackBerry to acquire thier MDM if there was no advantage in BES10? So was Apple, Google, Microsoft etc etc?

    Posted via CB10
    1. Airwatch was interested in Blackberry Services. Here is what their CEO said:

    Dabbiere said AirWatch could take the Blackberry server technology and integrate it into its device management technology and offer corporate customers a single dashboard to manage all of their devices.

    Note that he doesn't talk about Certicom.

    2. There is absolutely no proof that Apple, Google, or M$ participated this round.

    3. You can keep saying that same thing about security, but it's old news now. There are other companies providing equally secure MDM to BES10.
    11-13-13 08:41 PM
  2. Chicago777Guy's Avatar
    1. Airwatch was interested in Blackberry Services. Here is what their CEO said:

    Dabbiere said AirWatch could take the Blackberry server technology and integrate it into its device management technology and offer corporate customers a single dashboard to manage all of their devices.

    Note that he doesn't talk about Certicom.

    2. There is absolutely no proof that Apple, Google, or M$ participated this round.

    3. You can keep saying that same thing about security, but it's old news now. There are other companies providing equally secure MDM to BES10.
    Let's talk about number 3) That statement according to me does not have any weight...Tell me which other company has a NOC that runs on top of 100's of network carriers...Answer None..
    Yes it's an old news but that news is not going to change unless someone can top them...This is one argument where you can not back facts to put BlackBerry down....Just today's new "90% of German Federal and Government agencies are committed to BB10"...Now that's a fact that says a lot about it...
    Looking forward to an intellectual discussion with you based on facts on it.

    Posted via CB10
    notafanboy likes this.
    11-13-13 08:46 PM
  3. notafanboy's Avatar
    1. Airwatch was interested in Blackberry Services. Here is what their CEO said:

    Dabbiere said AirWatch could take the Blackberry server technology and integrate it into its device management technology and offer corporate customers a single dashboard to manage all of their devices.

    Note that he doesn't talk about Certicom.

    2. There is absolutely no proof that Apple, Google, or M$ participated this round.

    3. You can keep saying that same thing about security, but it's old news now. There are other companies providing equally secure MDM to BES10.
    Wow and I thought I disliked BlackBerry? You sure go out of your way to make a point regardless if it is factual or not. In this case it is not. No need to respond since I don't have time fighting with a brick wall. Life is to short being angry about nothing.

    Posted via CB10
    11-13-13 08:54 PM
  4. m1a1mg's Avatar
    Let's talk about number 3) That statement according to me does not have any weight...Tell me which other company has a NOC that runs on top of 100's of network carriers...Answer None..
    Yes it's an old news but that news is not going to change unless someone can top them...This is one argument where you can not back facts to put BlackBerry down....Just today's new "90% of German Federal and Government agencies are committed to BB10"...Now that's a fact that says a lot about it...
    Looking forward to an intellectual discussion with you based on facts on it.

    Posted via CB10
    OK, how do Android and iOS run over the NOC? Did you happen to read the thread title?

    Quite frankly, I think you're just parroting things you've heard others say. Maybe read this:

    Does the BlackBerry NOC still have value for the consumer? | CrackBerry.com
    11-13-13 08:56 PM
  5. Chicago777Guy's Avatar
    OK, how do Android and iOS run over the NOC? Did you happen to read the thread title?

    Quite frankly, I think you're just parroting things you've heard others say. Maybe read this:

    Does the BlackBerry NOC still have value for the consumer? | CrackBerry.com
    Yes I am parroting you are being original by sending a CB link .
    Talking about artical, it talks about consumers not enterprises and goverments...Consumers don't care about security...but ask a Federal CIO In Germany or DOD what is more important Candy Crush Saga running on S4 or top level security running on secured NOC...
    IOS and Android do not have NOC architecture or patents to security architectures...
    That's why inspite of worst publicity every, massive write downs, sales sign, 90% of Germany federal agency went with thier security solution...Thats a fact not parroting...Let's keep discussion logical and fact based.

    Posted via CB10
    thisiscjay and notafanboy like this.
    11-13-13 09:03 PM
  6. m1a1mg's Avatar
    Chicago, if you want to keep it logical and fact based, then I'd suggest you revisit the thread title. Further, I really think you need to look a bit further on how BES10 supports iOS and Android. Sorry to use the site again, but they are the BB experts. So, if we are talking purely enterprise, what makes BES10 the best? How is the BB NOC better than the Good NOC? You willing to lose your entire network due to someone else's NOC going down?

    Everything you need to know about BlackBerry Enterprise Server 10 | CrackBerry.com
    11-13-13 11:24 PM
  7. morlock_man's Avatar
    I agree with Chicago, you seem to be just posting links without actually reading what they're all about.

    Do you understand the whole concept of data loss prevention?
    11-14-13 06:31 AM
  8. notafanboy's Avatar
    I maybe new to crack berry but why do some here spend all day posting about a company they seem not to like? Seems odd someone would spend all day with such a negative attitude. What a waste. Life is to short being angry all day.

    Posted via CB10
    morlock_man likes this.
    11-14-13 06:48 AM
  9. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    I maybe new to crack berry but why do some here spend all day posting about a company they seem not to like? Seems odd someone would spend all day with such a negative attitude. What a waste. Life is to short being angry all day.

    Posted via CB10
    lol I thought I hallucinated ... your nick is so close to another CB contributor ...

    Back on topic.
    Anyone can claim anything about techno X against techno Y or the power of NSA's supercalculators.
    What we have now - and I believe for a while - is BlackBerry as the reference in the "secure" (whatever) mobile enterprise solutions.
    How do I know that ?
    Check the ads of alternate solutions. One way or another, they do (try to) compare to BES.

    BES multi-platform or not, these BB devices are still - in a "bottom up" enterprise security scheme- the most and indisputable secured devices (don't bother with satellite spies devices - that's OT).
    I believe the fortune 500 indicator (is that 90% BES?) as not slipped an inch; we'd be flooded with that kind of information.

    The fact that secure containers (let's keep it short) are available for iOS and Android may not be as safe/efficient than BB10 to BES10 is not really relevant, as the devices aren't, by design.
    Yet it is an option for "mid-security" users that allows both satisfaction of the users demands (or hype driven direction) while maintaining "enhanced-security" users relying on their BlackBerries, without the use of multiple layers of back-end softwares.
    Secure workspaces (aka Balance for BB devices) will also keep enterprise data safer, both from leaks and steals.

    BES 10.0.2 is ont its way and still the first iteration of BlackBerry BYOD/MDM, which is noting but a part of BES.

    2cents.

    Edit: I was reluctant to illustrate, but with some paintings ...
    (lol they're so ... they changed "P" to "W" in the keyboard to avoid problems ... 2 "W" on the same keyboard line: Brilliant & insightful)
    BBRY's Secret Weapon....iOS and Android-capture.png
    Last edited by Superfly_FR; 11-14-13 at 07:37 AM.
    notafanboy likes this.
    11-14-13 07:25 AM
  10. m1a1mg's Avatar
    I agree with Chicago, you seem to be just posting links without actually reading what they're all about.

    Do you understand the whole concept of data loss prevention?
    Well, let's see if we can re-hash the entire thread.

    1. You started the thread by talking about the ability of BES10 to manage iOS and Android devices. You stated an incorrect amount for the CAL, which blows your entire thought out of the water. Additionally, like many on these boards, you talk of BlackBerry-level security, as if that meant something. What is BlackBerry level security?

    2. When slammed by someone who has actually used BES10, you jumped into the ECC area in post #3. This brought me in as INFOSEC is my job. You posted a lot of stuff that I've seen here on CB before, that isn't completely true. (Although I'm sure it was not intentional.)

    3. I posted a lot of links to help you realize that there are many viewpoints to ECC has formulated by Certicom and some varied viewpoints on their patents. Outside the US, many in the field laugh at the thought that math can be patented. I also pointed out that there are alternative solutions that are not covered by patent.

    4. Chicago entered the fray and we took a detour. Chicago and I normally talk past one another. Nothing new to see here. But once again, he talks about BB being the security king, but can't explain HOW they are king. But I will agree that I was all over the place trying to answer, what I thought, was his question.

    5. I think I understand data loss quite well, as the data I try to protect is highly classified.

    6. Super makes a very nice post. But where are the facts? How many Fortune 500 companies still use BB as their solution. And let's not repeat that lame testing part.
    11-14-13 08:36 AM
  11. morlock_man's Avatar
    1. The CAL prices I'm using are the current ones listed directly on the BBRY website. That should trump a few blog articles about a firesale from the summer.

    2. Who here says the guy actually used? He just claims its a piece of s#it and that other platforms are superior. He doesn't state that he works for an IT department, just that his company is considering moving towards a different MDM provider. There's nothing in his post that suggests his opinion is any better than the average CNet article for being impartial.

    3. It's not a matter of a math theory or algorithm being patented, it's the implementation, which is a mix of hardware and software which makes the patents quite strong.

    4. Because they actually spend the R&D money, bought the right companies and the right patents. It's that simple and that accepted.

    5. Sure you do.

    6. You find that number if you want to dispute it. Good luck to yourself.
    notafanboy likes this.
    11-14-13 09:01 AM
  12. m1a1mg's Avatar
    1. The CAL prices I'm using are the current ones listed directly on the BBRY website. That should trump a few blog articles about a firesale from the summer.
    Would BlackBerry be a good source? BlackBerry Announces Reduced Pricing for Enterprise Service Offerings «Inside BlackBerry for Business Blog
    I’d agree that there are other numbers out there. I’m not sure what is going on with that.
    2. Who here says the guy actually used? He just claims its a piece of s#it and that other platforms are superior. He doesn't state that he works for an IT department, just that his company is considering moving towards a different MDM provider. There's nothing in his post that suggests his opinion is any better than the average CNet article for being impartial.
    Nor is there any reason to listen to a guy who spends most of his time trying to convince himself that his BBRY investment wasn’t stupid.
    3. It's not a matter of a math theory or algorithm being patented, it's the implementation, which is a mix of hardware and software which makes the patents quite strong.
    First, they only have the patents in the US. That’s important. Second, there are alternative IMPLEMENTATIONS of ECC. You just want to deny it.
    4. Because they actually spend the R&D money, bought the right companies and the right patents. It's that simple and that accepted.
    I’ll agree it is fully accepted on CB. But given the opportunity to switch, the DoD did just that yesterday by going to Fixmo. The same company BB used to help them with BB10 devices. If BB is the best, why did they need to go to Fixmo? Fixmo and BlackBerry Partner to Bring Sentinel Device Integrity and Tamper Detection Solution to BlackBerry 10 | Fixmo Inc.
    5. Sure you do.
    A purely juvenile cheap shot. Read back through my posts. You’ll see.
    6. You find that number if you want to dispute it. Good luck to yourself.
    I’m curious. BB has parroted the 90% of Fortune 500 companies for years now. With some many players in the MDM marketplace now, I can’t imagine it hasn’t changed.



    I'll leave you now. #6 indicates to me you are not a person I would want to have a personal discussion with.
    11-14-13 09:24 AM
  13. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    6. Super makes a very nice post. But where are the facts? How many Fortune 500 companies still use BB as their solution. And let's not repeat that lame testing part.
    (first, thanks for the compliment)
    Trust me ... should a single fortune 500 company leave, it'll be leaked 2 month before it's official and trumpeted everywhere the day it's official. That's my metric.

    But this doesn't mean they'll all migrate to BES10, nor than they only use BES. It only demonstrates that "where there is sensitivity, there's BlackBery". (oh, damm, should (c) this one, no ? )


    Edit: some fresh "official voice" with some explanations, including top-to-bottom concept and NOC role (I thought it was bottom-up, never mind) : http://techsmart.co.za/business/Cybe...-Networks.html
    Last edited by Superfly_FR; 11-14-13 at 11:18 AM.
    11-14-13 10:07 AM
  14. m1a1mg's Avatar
    Super, I'm not sure how this plays out, but MobileIron seems to be making inroads into MDM in the Fortune 500. It doesn't really answer the question whether MobileIron is in place of BES or not, but I think it could be safely assumed.

    A MobileIron IPO can’t be far off now? “It’s the next step,” confirms CEO Bob Tinker, meeting with Enterprise Apps Expo for lunch on a recent trip to London. MobileIron customers, he says, include 200 of the Fortune 500 in the US and one-third of companies listed on the German DAX. Each quarter, the company adds between 500 and 600 new customer to that roll call. In the UK, customers include financial services giant Barclays, real estate investment trust Land Securities and local authority, the London Borough of Brent.

    Edit to add: Link to the rest of the story: http://www.enterpriseappexpo.com/mar...ice-management
    11-14-13 11:31 AM
  15. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    Super, I'm not sure how this plays out, but MobileIron seems to be making inroads into MDM in the Fortune 500. It doesn't really answer the question whether MobileIron is in place of BES or not, but I think it could be safely assumed.

    A MobileIron IPO can’t be far off now? “It’s the next step,” confirms CEO Bob Tinker, meeting with Enterprise Apps Expo for lunch on a recent trip to London. MobileIron customers, he says, include 200 of the Fortune 500 in the US and one-third of companies listed on the German DAX. Each quarter, the company adds between 500 and 600 new customer to that roll call. In the UK, customers include financial services giant Barclays, real estate investment trust Land Securities and local authority, the London Borough of Brent.

    Edit to add: Link to the rest of the story: Market overview: Mobile device management « Enterprise Applications Expo
    Stats are sometimes tricky.
    Fortune 500 company are monsters and I believe most of them use concurrent solutions for their (localized/specialized) needs but also for strategic purposes (technology watch, "catastrophe" scenario). So both statements are not incompatible.
    MI may have 200 customers in the 500s, while BlackBerry still have 450.

    In fact, this serves my reasoning above. In previous architectures, this was mandatory to have a duet (or more) to achieve BYOD strategy (and maintain high grade security with BBs).
    Now, if you have two solutions, one being the leader - large scale and long time proved safe - with an extended offering (iOs,Android) and another just competing (and I'm not sure whether BB released the proper APIS for BB10, I believe they didn't) ... which one would you cut off ?

    Is there any facts that can prove MI will last longer than BB - at least their Enterprises division?
    That'll be a tough bet, IMHO.

    edit: sorry for the x-editions
    11-14-13 11:53 AM
  16. morlock_man's Avatar
    1. Blackberry's posted pricing is the one we'll have to go by. You can't order CAL's from some random blog or newspage.

    2. I invested for technology-related reasons. And I'm a longterm investor with no interest in cashing out for 3-5 years. I'm still only a year and a half into that plan.

    3. There are alternative implementations of ECC, as described, but they're also suspect because those free implementations have been corrupted by spy agencies. There's also the possibility of inventing new hardware implementations, but that involves reinventing the wheel. And if the need for security is there, people will license whats available, not pump money in to redeveloping a new system that may or may not fall under Certicom's patented or patent pending portfolio. It's all about mitigating risk and what is feasible to develop.

    4. Fixmo's board of directors has NSA directors and deputy directors sitting on it. The DOD move was a calculated political move, not necessarily a financially or technologically driven decision.

    5. If your data is so highly classified that you understand security so well, why are you even debating this? Why can't you produce some metrics that show how your data securing methods out-weigh those of BBRY on the BES10 platform?

    6. Hard to carry on a conversation with a parrot.
    11-14-13 12:00 PM
  17. app_Developer's Avatar
    Trust me ... should a single fortune 500 company leave, it'll be leaked 2 month before it's official and trumpeted everywhere the day it's official. That's my metric.
    I work for a Fortune 100 company. We still have BES, but only for less than 5% now of our users. All Android and iPhone users are on Good.

    So, yes, we are still a BlackBerry customer, but we buy a small fraction of the CAL's we used to buy. And I did ask, yes we did evaluate BES10 so we also count in that number of customers who have either committed to BES10 or have tested it.

    Before we were acquired, we had a large US federal agency as a client. They, too, used Good and similarly they also still have the BES service around for the few people who haven't switched to their new iPhones and iPads yet.

    The proof the pudding is in the eating, so let's see how much revenue these services actually generate over the next couple of quarters. If this is a key part of the turnaround plan, and if BB plans to remain a 5,000+ person company, then I think they will have to significantly increase BES revenue way beyond current levels. I think that will be difficult given the competition. But we'll see.


    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    11-14-13 12:18 PM
  18. m1a1mg's Avatar
    Stats are sometimes tricky.
    Fortune 500 company are monsters and I believe most of them use concurrent solutions for their (localized/specialized) needs but also for strategic purposes (technology watch, "catastrophe" scenario). So both statements are not incompatible.
    MI may have 200 customers in the 500s, while BlackBerry still have 450.

    In fact, this serves my reasoning above. In previous architectures, this was mandatory to have a duet (or more) to achieve BYOD strategy (and maintain high grade security with BBs).
    Now, if you have two solutions, one being the leader - large scale and long time proved safe - with an extended offering (iOs,Android) and another just competing (and I'm not sure whether BB released the proper APIS for BB10, I believe they didn't) ... which one would you cut off ?

    Is there any facts that can prove MI will last longer than BB - at least their Enterprises division?
    That'll be a tough bet, IMHO.

    edit: sorry for the x-editions
    Agreed, as I stated in my post. Time will tell, but I know that there are alternative MDM providers out there. Currently the top 6 as ranked by Gartner don't include BES.

    My whole point of this thread is this: There is no guarantee that BB will continue to dominate the marketplace. There are roughly 120 companies in the marketplace as defined by Gartner. BB makes the top 18. Calculating revenues from the service side of BB is going to be tough.

    Thanks for discussing this like a grown up.
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    11-14-13 12:20 PM
  19. MidnightSociety's Avatar
    Too bad AW is being sued by GOOD. I found one article on it. I am trying to find the one where GOOD is trying to put in place an injunction on AW:

    Georgia IP Litigation: Good Technology: Airwatch's Defamation Claim in Georgia was Compulsory Counterclaim in California Patent Infringement Action
    11-14-13 12:34 PM
  20. MidnightSociety's Avatar
    Too bad AW is being sued by GOOD. I found one article on it. I am trying to find the one where GOOD is trying to put in place an injunction on AW:

    Georgia IP Litigation: Good Technology: Airwatch's Defamation Claim in Georgia was Compulsory Counterclaim in California Patent Infringement Action
    Found this gem as well :Good is pursuing other potential infringers of its patents, including patent infringement lawsuits against MobileIron Inc. and AirWatch LLC in the U.S. District Court, Northern District of California. In a lawsuit filed in 2011, Good likewise alleges that Fixmo, Inc. infringes Good patents in a case pending in the U.S. District Court, Northern District of Texas.

    Read more: Good Technology Settles Patent Litigation with Little Red Wagon Technologies - Press Release - Digital Journal
    11-14-13 12:44 PM
  21. m1a1mg's Avatar
    Good is good a suing their competitors. They are also suing MobileIron.

    Take note that this is a year old: Market overview: Mobile device management « Enterprise Applications Expo
    11-14-13 12:47 PM
  22. m1a1mg's Avatar
    Good also sued RIM back in the mid 00s. RIM settled.
    11-14-13 12:51 PM
  23. morlock_man's Avatar
    Good also sued RIM back in the mid 00s. RIM settled.
    You've got that backwards. RIM sued Good when they were a startup, Good settled.
    11-14-13 12:53 PM
  24. MidnightSociety's Avatar
    Good is good a suing their competitors. They are also suing MobileIron.

    Take note that this is a year old: Market overview: Mobile device management « Enterprise Applications Expo
    I just posted the update on the suit
    11-14-13 12:57 PM
  25. m1a1mg's Avatar
    You've got that backwards. RIM sued Good when they were a startup, Good settled.
    Sorry, you are correct. Good beat RIM when the were taken over by Visto.

    In a further development, we were both wrong, and right, about the CAL question. A perpetual CAL is $99. An annual CAL is $19.
    11-14-13 01:02 PM
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