11-15-13 05:20 AM
70 123
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  1. morlock_man's Avatar
    Just a quick thought in regards to today's press release. One thing that's mentioned in the post that's not really discussed is using value add by using BES10 to manage fleets of devices.

    The CAL for a Droid or iPhone for BES10 is $99 a year for a single license, dropping to $55 when you're buying in groups of 500.

    This means that an IT department that manages a pool of 2000 devices can streamline their management across platforms (and implement BlackBerry-level security) for the cost of about $110,000. Since the time associated with BYOD management is reduced by this cross-platform simplification, the upgrade should pay for itself over the course of the year. Grohe AG has 9000 employees and Sudzucker has 18,000. Mitsubishi Germany is a harder number to find, but say another 3,000 just to round the total up to 30,000. So this press release means they've just added a potential yearly revenue stream worth about $1.65 million in software alone. The DOD expects to have 300,000 devices on it's network by 2016. If this network was managed entirely BES10 (or BES12 by that point), then BBRY's yearly revenue for managing those devices would be in the neighborhood of $16.5 million.

    This isn't much different from what Microsoft did when they first licensed DOS to IBM, BBRY is just licensing security and management capabilities, not the core OS. And in light of the recent NSA leaks, government and corporate security is going to become tighter than twins trying to lock down the flow of information in and out of employee devices.

    As BES10 adoption increases in BYOD environments, the increase in yearly software revenue from the existing pool of Apple and Android devices should go a long way towards offsetting the cost of developing the BB10 platform as a whole. This metric won't show up as device sales, statscounter percentages or the now discarded 'subscribers'. The gross margin on these kinds of software services are gigantic and I believe they're not being factored into the current market analysis at all when projecting the next ER.

    (It should be noted BES10 was completed on Thorsten Heins watch. The impact from his days as a CEO have yet to be fully realized.)
    Superfly_FR and schwede like this.
    11-13-13 10:20 AM
  2. GoJaysGo's Avatar
    That means that IT departments will look else where for their MDM solutions. BES 10 UDS is a piece of ****. There is no other way of putting it. I know a lot of business are looking at MobileIron or AirWatch (or insert best of breed MDM), getting rid of BES completely and putting our BBxx phones on ActiveSync. iOS and Android phones are now out numbering BB xx in the business…
    11-13-13 10:27 AM
  3. morlock_man's Avatar
    That means that IT departments will look else where for their MDM solutions. BES 10 UDS is a piece of ****. There is no other way of putting it. I know a lot of business are looking at MobileIron or AirWatch (or insert best of breed MDM), getting rid of BES completely and putting our BBxx phones on ActiveSync. iOS and Android phones are now out numbering BB xx in the business…
    Good luck implementing ECC in hardware and software without running into patent issues.

    http://www.ajc.com/news/business/rep...ivision/nbqCJ/
    11-13-13 10:31 AM
  4. OniBerry's Avatar
    Fixmo just got the DoD contract for MDM solutions.
    11-13-13 10:36 AM
  5. m1a1mg's Avatar
    Good luck implementing ECC in hardware and software without running into patent issues.

    AirWatch interested in acquiring BlackBerry division | www.ajc.com
    ECC is currently implemented all over the internet without patent issues.
    11-13-13 10:41 AM
  6. morlock_man's Avatar
    ECC is currently implemented all over the internet without patent issues.
    Sure, if you're not trying to make any money off it.

    Incorporate it into your device management platform without licensing it from Certicom (A wholly owned subsidiary of BBRY) and watch the feces hit the fan.
    notafanboy likes this.
    11-13-13 10:46 AM
  7. m1a1mg's Avatar
    Sure, if you're not trying to make any money off it.

    Incorporate it into your device management platform without licensing it from Certicom (A wholly owned subsidiary of BBRY) and watch the feces hit the fan.
    Probably not true.

    public key infrastructure - What is the optimal result for the elliptic curve patent issue? - Information Security Stack Exchange
    11-13-13 10:50 AM
  8. morlock_man's Avatar
    Opinions are not facts.

    Just because Certicom hasn't sued anyone for using OpenSSL doesn't mean they won't go bats#it crazy on AirWatch if they try to use a patented implementation of ECC to compete with BES10.
    11-13-13 10:57 AM
  9. m1a1mg's Avatar
    Opinions are not facts.

    Just because Certicom hasn't sued anyone for using OpenSSL doesn't mean they won't go bats#it crazy on AirWatch if they try to use a patented implementation of ECC to compete with BES10.
    It's an educated opinion by someone who appears to know what they are talking about, instead of what they are hoping for.
    11-13-13 11:01 AM
  10. morlock_man's Avatar
    It's an educated opinion by someone who appears to know what they are talking about, instead of what they are hoping for.
    Certicom sued Sony for it's implementation of AACS, which covered BluRay players, the PS3 and PS3 discs.

    They ended up settling out of court.

    Why else have Airwatch been making offers of close to billion dollars for BBRY's enterprise division for the last six months?
    11-13-13 11:10 AM
  11. morlock_man's Avatar
    If you actually look at Ceritcom's patents, you'll see most of them were publishing in the 2000s and they continue to publish new ones. This means these patents are good until at least 2020, which means they've got another 6 years of owning the earliest of them.
    notafanboy likes this.
    11-13-13 11:31 AM
  12. m1a1mg's Avatar
    If you actually look at Ceritcom's patents, you'll see most of them were publishing in the 2000s and they continue to publish new ones. This means these patents are good until at least 2020, which means they've got another 6 years of owning the earliest of them.
    You didn't red those links, did you? All of them talk about patent issues and alternative ECC that Certicom hasn't got patents on.
    11-13-13 11:33 AM
  13. morlock_man's Avatar
    You didn't red those links, did you? All of them talk about patent issues and alternative ECC that Certicom hasn't got patents on.
    And there are plenty of uses of ECC that BBRY and Certicom probably have zero interest in and therefore are not interested in litigating against.

    But watch a competitor try to make use a patented implementation.

    Also, some variations of ECC are more susceptible to brute force attacks than others.

    All ECC implementations are not created equal.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullrun_(code_name)
    11-13-13 11:53 AM
  14. m1a1mg's Avatar
    Sorry, I guess we won't agree on this issue. One question though.

    I thought the CAL was $19. Is it different for iOS and Android?

    BlackBerry Announces Reduced Pricing for Enterprise Service Offerings «Inside BlackBerry for Business Blog
    11-13-13 12:08 PM
  15. OMGitworks's Avatar
    Just a quick thought in regards to today's press release. One thing that's mentioned in the post that's not really discussed is using value add by using BES10 to manage fleets of devices.

    The CAL for a Droid or iPhone for BES10 is $99 a year for a single license, dropping to $55 when you're buying in groups of 500.

    This means that an IT department that manages a pool of 2000 devices can streamline their management across platforms (and implement BlackBerry-level security) for the cost of about $110,000. Since the time associated with BYOD management is reduced by this cross-platform simplification, the upgrade should pay for itself over the course of the year. Grohe AG has 9000 employees and Sudzucker has 18,000. Mitsubishi Germany is a harder number to find, but say another 3,000 just to round the total up to 30,000. So this press release means they've just added a potential yearly revenue stream worth about $1.65 million in software alone. The DOD expects to have 300,000 devices on it's network by 2016. If this network was managed entirely BES10 (or BES12 by that point), then BBRY's yearly revenue for managing those devices would be in the neighborhood of $16.5 million.

    This isn't much different from what Microsoft did when they first licensed DOS to IBM, BBRY is just licensing security and management capabilities, not the core OS. And in light of the recent NSA leaks, government and corporate security is going to become tighter than twins trying to lock down the flow of information in and out of employee devices.

    As BES10 adoption increases in BYOD environments, the increase in yearly software revenue from the existing pool of Apple and Android devices should go a long way towards offsetting the cost of developing the BB10 platform as a whole. This metric won't show up as device sales, statscounter percentages or the now discarded 'subscribers'. The gross margin on these kinds of software services are gigantic and I believe they're not being factored into the current market analysis at all when projecting the next ER.

    (It should be noted BES10 was completed on Thorsten Heins watch. The impact from his days as a CEO have yet to be fully realized.)
    And just the interest on the $1B they just borrowed is $60M a year so they better get crackin'
    11-13-13 12:28 PM
  16. morlock_man's Avatar
    And just the interest on the $1B they just borrowed is $60M a year so they better get crackin'
    On September 9, 2013, The NIST ITL announced, that in light of community security concerns, it was reissuing SP 800-90A as draft standard, and re-opening SP800-90B/C for public comment, and NIST now "strongly recommends" against the use of Dual_EC_DRBG, as specified in the January 2012 version of SP 800-90A.[10]

    On September 10, 2013, The New York Times wrote that "internal memos leaked by a former N.S.A. contractor, Edward Snowden, suggest that the N.S.A. generated one of the random number generators used in a 2006 N.I.S.T. standard — called the Dual EC DRBG standard — which contains a backdoor for the N.S.A." On September 10, 2013, The NIST director released a statement, saying that "NIST would not deliberately weaken a cryptographic standard."
    Hmmmmmm...

    (Edit: I saw the articles listing the price drop, but it seems that could have been sale to bring on early adopters as their corporate sales site is back to the old pricing.)

    It's also interesting that the BULLRUN and EDGEHILL codenames were the first major battles of the American and English civil wars, respectively.
    11-13-13 12:42 PM
  17. OMGitworks's Avatar
    I'm shocked the NSA left themselves a way in. Just shocked.... This is why I think BBRY security is ultimately overrated as as a selling feature. I think the NSA will get your stuff if they want to. Plain and simple. For the average person BBRY will certainly give you more security as it is just the way it is, but if you are doing something illegal or they want your info, I just think you are toast. This snippet just shows another way they have to infiltrate "secure" systems. I am not saying I agree or support that, only that I think BBRY isn't the answer if they want to get to you.
    11-13-13 02:30 PM
  18. anon1727506's Avatar

    As BES10 adoption increases in BYOD environments, the increase in yearly software revenue from the existing pool of Apple and Android devices should go a long way towards offsetting the cost of developing the BB10 platform as a whole. This metric won't show up as device sales, statscounter percentages or the now discarded 'subscribers'. The gross margin on these kinds of software services are gigantic and I believe they're not being factored into the current market analysis at all when projecting the next ER.
    They are being factored in.... MDM is becoming a very crowded market and BYOD is the path that most non-security related business are heading towards. BES10 is not a good option in a BYOD environment (it Android and iOS controls are limited) and BES10's lack of security in not being able to guarantee it will be around in six months, is a very dangerous security flaw that needs to be patched quickly.

    And at $19 per license I'm not sure how gigantic those gross margins are going to be in the future. Or that some of the announced big investments into BB10 and BES10 by a few companies hasn't been discounted to get some good PR.

    On paper BlackBerry looks like it should all work and make money.... next ER will show that isn't the case. I'm looking for Q1 results next June to be an indicator of where they will go.
    11-13-13 02:49 PM
  19. morlock_man's Avatar
    I'm shocked the NSA left themselves a way in. Just shocked.... This is why I think BBRY security is ultimately overrated as as a selling feature. I think the NSA will get your stuff if they want to. Plain and simple. For the average person BBRY will certainly give you more security as it is just the way it is, but if you are doing something illegal or they want your info, I just think you are toast. This snippet just shows another way they have to infiltrate "secure" systems. I am not saying I agree or support that, only that I think BBRY isn't the answer if they want to get to you.
    They infiltrated ECC secured systems by leaving them open to brute force from a known list of pseudorandom numbers. They crippled that encryption on purpose.

    Real implementations of ECC take years to hack through using brute force methods.
    11-13-13 03:16 PM
  20. m1a1mg's Avatar
    Read the links. NSA bought Suite B from Certicom for $25M.
    11-13-13 06:37 PM
  21. morlock_man's Avatar
    Read the links. NSA bought Suite B from Certicom for $25M.
    Means nothing.

    Just because they have a license to implement the technology for their own uses doesn't mean they have the abilities to insert vulnerabilities adhoc into encryption systems.

    I don't see what you're getting at with the Suite B issue.
    11-13-13 06:54 PM
  22. m1a1mg's Avatar
    Means nothing.

    Just because they have a license to implement the technology for their own uses doesn't mean they have the abilities to insert vulnerabilities adhoc into encryption systems.

    I don't see what you're getting at with the Suite B issue.
    Because NSA shares the technology with "certain" partners.
    11-13-13 07:10 PM
  23. Chicago777Guy's Avatar
    Because NSA shares the technology with "certain" partners.
    M1 question for you...why was Air watch all over BlackBerry to acquire thier MDM if there was no advantage in BES10? So was Apple, Google, Microsoft etc etc?

    Posted via CB10
    11-13-13 07:20 PM
  24. Chicago777Guy's Avatar
    Plus you are also forgetting that BES10 is just a component of security. When you add that to NOC, security algorithms and BB10 device you create an ultimate security architecture...something others can just dream of..thats why they are the security King

    Posted via CB10
    11-13-13 07:24 PM
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