View Poll Results: Did you buy shares ?

Voters
1101. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, I'm acting now !

    692 62.85%
  • No

    409 37.15%
  1. chrysaurora's Avatar
    Nothing like churning the float in a range, like a coiled spring waiting for the trip wire to be released imho.
    For stock trading newbies, please translate implications of this phrase in plain-speak!
    01-24-13 07:47 PM
  2. abouthsu's Avatar
    I'll have my laptop with me. Plus I'm planning to set up some buy stops Tuesday after market closes.
    Thanks BThunderW for your wisdom. I'm a rookie trader and planning to buy come Friday morning. Care to help shed some light on buy stop strategy as I won't be around the PC when the market open as I'm in Asia at the moment.?

    Thanks
    01-24-13 08:02 PM
  3. BThunderW's Avatar
    Honestly, trading this late into launch is a crapshoot. I'm personally ceasing all trading of RIM until Jan 29. Unless the stocks makes a giant move. I still very much believe there will be a major sell off on or around Jan 30th. I wiill be all cash EOD Jan 29th with Buy Stops going into effect Jan 30.

    If you're simply investing into RIM, it's never too late because long term the stock will be much higher, though it's always good idea to buy on the dip to maximize your profits.


    Thanks BThunderW for your wisdom. I'm a rookie trader and planning to buy come Friday morning. Care to help shed some light on buy stop strategy as I won't be around the PC when the market open as I'm in Asia at the moment.?

    Thanks
    Geeoff and Superfly_FR like this.
    01-24-13 08:29 PM
  4. chrysaurora's Avatar
    So, there are three trading days left before launch.
    How much do you think stock would rally?
    I used to think it'd be $17-$18 but now I am thinking it'd be $21 to $23
    drummer_god likes this.
    01-24-13 08:47 PM
  5. chrysaurora's Avatar
    So, there are three trading days left before launch.
    How much do you think stock would rally?
    I used to think it'd be $17-$18 but now I am thinking it'd be $21 to $23

    On the other hand, BES 10 was released and it's a major thing but still the stock didn't move!

    Honestly, trading this late into launch is a crapshoot. I'm personally ceasing all trading of RIM until Jan 29. Unless the stocks makes a giant move. I still very much believe there will be a major sell off on or around Jan 30th. I wiill be all cash EOD Jan 29th with Buy Stops going into effect Jan 30.

    If you're simply investing into RIM, it's never too late because long term the stock will be much higher, though it's always good idea to buy on the dip to maximize your profits.
    Actually, this time, stock is probably going to rally after launch. A lot of folks must be waiting for launch to see if they should invest in the product. Given that people who have seen BlackBerry 10 have given it rave reviews, the product is bound to impress. That should nudge a lot of fence sitters to invest.
    drummer_god likes this.
    01-24-13 08:51 PM
  6. m0de25's Avatar
    On the other hand, BES 10 was released and it's a major thing but still the stock didn't move!
    Another way of looking at it...
    the BES 10 news likely prevented a more severe stock dive that might have been triggered after Citibank's ridiculous sell rating/12$. Who knows? So, perhaps BES 10 *did* influence the stock positively
    01-24-13 09:15 PM
  7. BThunderW's Avatar
    That's why Buy Stops are a good thing here. If you're cash and it crashes, you gain the opportunity to rebuy at lower cost, end up with more shares. If it rallies, you trigger your stop, maybe lose 5% of rally, Still come up on top. I'm willing to sacrifice 5% rally for the possible crash.

    Actually, this time, stock is probably going to rally after launch. A lot of folks must be waiting for launch to see if they should invest in the product. Given that people who have seen BlackBerry 10 have given it rave reviews, the product is bound to impress. That should nudge a lot of fence sitters to invest.
    Geeoff and Brianflys like this.
    01-24-13 09:19 PM
  8. chrysaurora's Avatar
    That's why Buy Stops are a good thing here. If you're cash and it crashes, you gain the opportunity to rebuy at lower cost, end up with more shares. If it rallies, you trigger your stop, maybe lose 5% of rally, Still come up on top. I'm willing to sacrifice 5% rally for the possible crash.
    Okay - I don't understand that Buy STOP means.
    I don't have any cash in account. Only TSE:RIM stocks. Can you tell me what BUY STOP is and how I can place such Buy Stop order on QuesTrade?

    EDIT: Okay, I looked it up and understood. Not sure how to place it on QuesTrade console though.
    (I looked it up here: http://www.smartmoney.com/invest/str...1333389820844/)
    But this also means, I've to first "sell" my stocks to get cash. And then place a BUY STOP.
    If I don't have any cash in my account, QuesTrade system is not even going to accept a BUY STOP order.

    EDIT 2: Question:
    I usually see a large spread between bid and ask price of RIM stocks.
    Say, bid is: $10 and ask is: $10.50
    now, if you placed a "MARKET" order to BUY, I am guessing order will be filled at $10.50 (not $10)?
    if you placed a "MARKET" order to SELL, I am guessing order will be filled (your stocks will be sold) at $10 (not $10.50).
    Am I correct?

    Assuming I am correct, I have a question about BUY STOP:
    Let's say, stock is trading at $10. I set a BUY STOP at $15.
    Now, although the stock is trading at $10, some random person is just playing with stock-buying/selling system and places a SELL order with LIMIT $15 (although the stock is trading at $10).

    Does this mean, my BUY STOP will trigger and I'd become the unlucky one buying his stocks at $15 (while everyone else is selling at $10)?
    Last edited by chrysaurora; 01-24-13 at 09:37 PM.
    01-24-13 09:21 PM
  9. BThunderW's Avatar
    Correct. You sell first. If you have cash and no position, a drop in price will not affect your balance, which ultimately is the goal here. If the stock is to rally, the order will automatically kick in and rebuy the stock at a slightly higher price (that you specified). You lose the difference between when you sold the stock and rebuy. But since the stock is rallying you're still gaining, just not as much.

    Okay - I don't understand that Buy STOP means.
    I don't have any cash in account. Only TSE:RIM stocks. Can you tell me what BUY STOP is and how I can place such Buy Stop order on QuesTrade?

    EDIT: Okay, I looked it up and understood. Not sure how to place it on QuesTrade console though.
    (I looked it up here: Use a 'Buy Stop' to Avoid Missing the Bus - SmartMoney.com)
    But this also means, I've to first "sell" my stocks to get cash. And then place a BUY STOP.
    If I don't have any cash in my account, QuesTrade system is not even going to accept a BUY STOP order.
    spike12 likes this.
    01-24-13 09:34 PM
  10. BThunderW's Avatar
    I should add that I actually hope that I'm wrong on this and the stock does rally into 30s or even higher. But there's a lot of signs pointing to a sell off. I'd rather be protected, greed isn't always good.
    spike12 likes this.
    01-24-13 09:41 PM
  11. fedakd's Avatar
    Please elaborate on the signs you believe point to a sell off. Thanks.

    I should add that I actually hope that I'm wrong on this and the stock does rally into 30s or even higher. But there's a lot of signs pointing to a sell off. I'd rather be protected, greed isn't always good.
    01-24-13 09:54 PM
  12. TomJasper's Avatar
    There are no visible signs, everybody has their trading style, Thunder likes buying on dips selling into rally,if it works for him more power to him.I'm sure he thinks buy on rumour sell on news, works at times, again it's up to each individual investor. I happen to think opposite his trading on this particular stock, it's an unconventional situation. To each their own.

    Please elaborate on the signs you believe point to a sell off. Thanks.
    01-24-13 10:10 PM
  13. TomJasper's Avatar
    I ventured out into some other threads today, let me tell you, some angry iOS posters out there. Much more friendly in here,lol. Heck we have apple shareholders buying RIM here, we have different takes on where/when/how RIM is going to go and I have yet to see anything nasty or vindictive on this thread. We need to send out the "friendly patrol" and show them how to get along,lol.
    01-24-13 10:16 PM
  14. chrysaurora's Avatar
    Correct. You sell first. If you have cash and no position, a drop in price will not affect your balance, which ultimately is the goal here. If the stock is to rally, the order will automatically kick in and rebuy the stock at a slightly higher price (that you specified). You lose the difference between when you sold the stock and rebuy. But since the stock is rallying you're still gaining, just not as much.
    Thanks. Makes sense.
    Okay, so my other question:
    I usually see a large spread between bid and ask price of RIM stocks.
    Say, bid is: $10 and ask is: $10.50
    now, if you placed a "MARKET" order to BUY, I am guessing order will be filled at $10.50 (not $10)?
    if you placed a "MARKET" order to SELL, I am guessing order will be filled (your stocks will be sold) at $10 (not $10.50).
    Am I correct?

    Assuming I am correct, I have a question about BUY STOP:
    Let's say, stock is trading at $10. I set a BUY STOP at $15.
    Now, although the stock is trading at $10, some random person is just playing with stock-buying/selling system and places a SELL order with LIMIT $15 (although the stock is trading at $10).

    Does this mean, my BUY STOP will trigger and I'd become the unlucky one buying his stocks at $15 (while everyone else is selling at $10)?
    01-24-13 10:18 PM
  15. Geeoff's Avatar
    Honestly, trading this late into launch is a crapshoot. I'm personally ceasing all trading of RIM until Jan 29. Unless the stocks makes a giant move. I still very much believe there will be a major sell off on or around Jan 30th. I wiill be all cash EOD Jan 29th with Buy Stops going into effect Jan 30.

    If you're simply investing into RIM, it's never too late because long term the stock will be much higher, though it's always good idea to buy on the dip to maximize your profits.
    I'm planning on sticking with RIM for the long term, but I might put a stop loss order in for January 30, just in case there are any disappointments.

    Realistically, it will take a few days before the media gets a good feel for the new OS and a consensus forms regarding BB10. This consensus will be the first key factor for predicting major movements in stock price over the next few weeks.

    The second major factor to watch for is handset volume. Since RIM reports devices shipped (and not necessarily sold), the initial official numbers will almost definitely be good. What matters more will be the unofficial 'channel checks' on actual sell-through of the mobile handsets. These channel checks will give a better idea regarding how successful BB10 actually is. The official sell through numbers won't be reported until a few months later.

    I'm a big fan of BB10 and I really want to cheer for RIM, but I need to keep a cool head about my investments. I am not a rich man with money to burn for my favourite company.
    BThunderW and Shanerredflag like this.
    01-24-13 10:18 PM
  16. BThunderW's Avatar
    These are just some factors off the top of my head

    1. It has happened with EVERY new product launch with every company EVER (see Nokia, Apple, Microsoft)
    2. Buy the rumor, sell the news. Institutions are ruthless. Prop up the stock prior to launch (see Jan 11), ride it to profit, then sell and short it right down (long squeeze).
    3. RSI still extremely high
    4. Historically most companies never turn around. Most investors know this.
    5. Hopium doesn't work in long term, hard numbers do
    6. Bears are still holding strong


    Please elaborate on the signs you believe point to a sell off. Thanks.
    01-24-13 10:21 PM
  17. fedakd's Avatar
    TomJasper, I agree with you as well. While I appreciate Thunder's ideas I find my sentiment on this particular stock is opposite of his. The shorts have played the sell the rumour, buy the news game (BB10 is in fact NOT a flop). I see some major pops coming.

    There are no visible signs, everybody has their trading style, Thunder likes buying on dips selling into rally,if it works for him more power to him.I'm sure he thinks buy on rumour sell on news, works at times, again it's up to each individual investor. I happen to think opposite his trading on this particular stock, it's an unconventional situation. To each their own.
    01-24-13 10:22 PM
  18. InWithTheNew's Avatar
    Honestly, trading this late into launch is a crapshoot. I'm personally ceasing all trading of RIM until Jan 29. Unless the stocks makes a giant move. I still very much believe there will be a major sell off on or around Jan 30th. I wiill be all cash EOD Jan 29th with Buy Stops going into effect Jan 30.

    If you're simply investing into RIM, it's never too late because long term the stock will be much higher, though it's always good idea to buy on the dip to maximize your profits.
    What do you mean the stock had huge volume and barely budged. It fought back down 5-6% and boomed all the way to 8.30 ish. At that point one should expect there to be some sort of profit taking. That's more than a 10% swing. Weekly options have been making RIMM go on Fridays. Get your skin back in the game buddy.
    01-24-13 10:30 PM
  19. BThunderW's Avatar
    The rebound happened within first 30 minutes of trading with relatively few number of shares compared to the rest of the day. That's trading on low volume. And it only broke even then. The additional 3% gain happened on Lenovo buy rumor. 3% is laughable on such a rumor.

    What do you mean the stock had huge volume and barely budged. It fought back down 5-6% and boomed all the way to 8.30 ish. At that point one should expect there to be some sort of profit taking. That's more than a 10% swing. Weekly options have been making RIMM go on Fridays. Get your skin back in the game buddy.
    01-24-13 10:31 PM
  20. InWithTheNew's Avatar
    and God help these shorts come Monday morning if the short interest numbers went even higher!!!!
    01-24-13 10:32 PM
  21. TomJasper's Avatar
    Investopedia
    Tons of info and videos, just use the search bar.


    Thanks. Makes sense.
    Okay, so my other question:
    I usually see a large spread between bid and ask price of RIM stocks.
    Say, bid is: $10 and ask is: $10.50
    now, if you placed a "MARKET" order to BUY, I am guessing order will be filled at $10.50 (not $10)?
    if you placed a "MARKET" order to SELL, I am guessing order will be filled (your stocks will be sold) at $10 (not $10.50).
    Am I correct?

    Assuming I am correct, I have a question about BUY STOP:
    Let's say, stock is trading at $10. I set a BUY STOP at $15.
    Now, although the stock is trading at $10, some random person is just playing with stock-buying/selling system and places a SELL order with LIMIT $15 (although the stock is trading at $10).

    Does this mean, my BUY STOP will trigger and I'd become the unlucky one buying his stocks at $15 (while everyone else is selling at $10)?
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    01-24-13 10:35 PM
  22. InWithTheNew's Avatar
    i didnt have my computer with me and was viewing while responding here on my cellphone. The first big pop happened around 25M volume and took the volume to a bit over 35M. Then it steadily went up after that and at the peak $8.30 we were something around 65m by then. Lots of buyers kicking themselves that they sold into the fear. New money is lining up and new shorts are jumping into the frying pan everyday trying to catch the top.
    01-24-13 10:36 PM
  23. fedakd's Avatar
    Thanks Thunder. All VERY good reasons - it's great to see both sides.

    1) An "Extremely High" amount for RSI would be 90+. With the amount of volume today I feel we are relatively safe where we are. We are a few days from launch - I would expect this to be high
    2) Couldn't agree more with you on institutions. They are crooks
    3) Bears are holding strong because they have no other choice. That is, until the losses become too extreme, or the supply of shares falls and they are unable to keep the price down.
    4) A completely refreshed product (what RIM did) is quoted by RIM's old CEO, "where companies go to die". Amazingly enough and to everyone's surprise, I think RIM is going to pull it off.
    5) Most importantly: Out of all the product launches, we have NEVER had a situation where short interest has continued to increase as price increases. There are reports that 160M are shorted now. Is there something we are missing here? Or, are they in over their heads?


    These are just some factors off the top of my head

    1. It has happened with EVERY new product launch with every company EVER (see Nokia, Apple, Microsoft)
    2. Buy the rumor, sell the news. Institutions are ruthless. Prop up the stock prior to launch (see Jan 11), ride it to profit, then sell and short it right down (long squeeze).
    3. RSI still extremely high
    4. Historically most companies never turn around. Most investors know this.
    5. Hopium doesn't work in long term, hard numbers do
    6. Bears are still holding strong
    Acumenight likes this.
    01-24-13 10:38 PM
  24. BThunderW's Avatar
    Like I posted earlier. I hope I'm wrong. But I'd rather be safe than greedy
    01-24-13 10:39 PM
  25. TomJasper's Avatar
    The rebound happened within first 30 minutes of trading with relatively few number of shares compared to the rest of the day. That's trading on low volume. And it only broke even then. The additional 3% gain happened on Lenovo buy rumor. 3% is laughable on such a rumor.
    I don't think many put too much into the Lenovo rumour, the simple fact of China/security nipped that in the bud before it got traction, in other words is was discounted from the get go, at least in the way the tone deaf media presented it. Don't forget once bitten twice shy, not first time some rumour was trumped out, so most any rumour of a buy needs more flushing out before that can be a major factor on a move, imho.

    I still don't get why you didn't like the volume, it helped the VWAP greatly, to me that's a good indicator. You were looking for a large pull back, you got small pull back larger volume, I'll take that every time.
    01-24-13 10:46 PM
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