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  1. zeman665's Avatar
    Attachment 446761

    BB vs SNAP

    Looks like SNAP is the first one to settle.
    Damages seem to be based-off 4 patents, 2 dismissed, 2 not considered.

    Interesting times. Especially with TWTR and FB in discussions for potential settlement
    Where do you see that SNAP settled? According to that court doc, SNAP was awarded payment for costs associated with the litigation. If you look at prior court documents it says blackberry is filing an appeal on the four patents outlined in the final judgement. It doesn't not appear that the final judgement was in Blackberry's favor, unless you're reading this court document differently. Please share!
    rampagingpanda, rarsen and dalinxz like this.
    11-27-19 11:47 AM
  2. rampagingpanda's Avatar
    Where do you see that SNAP settled? According to that court doc, SNAP was awarded payment for costs associated with the litigation. If you look at prior court documents it says blackberry is filing an appeal on the four patents outlined in the final judgement. It doesn't not appear that the final judgement was in Blackberry's favor, unless you're reading this court document differently. Please share!
    Hi zeman665,

    Thanks for your note. Upon further reading, I think you might be correct.
    I'm not particularly experienced with legal speak; initially, I interpreted from reading Order 3 and 4 as the court siding in BlackBerry's favour.

    However, further researching re: Order 6, '28 U.S.C. § 1920, Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 54(d), and Local Civil Rule 54.' seems to be referring to a 'bill of costs'. Taxable cost awards (see links and below) seem to be awarded to the prevailing party.

    'Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 54(d)(1), states that “costs—other than attorney’s fees—should be allowed to the prevailing party.” The costs that may be taxed are generally outlined at 28 U.S.C. § 1920. '

    I do wonder what this all means for BB...

    Links:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_of_costs
    https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinion.../10-1472-2.PDF
    https://www.mnd.uscourts.gov/FORMS/C...osts-Guide.pdf

    Orders for reference:
    3. Final judgment is hereby entered on BlackBerry’s claims related to U.S.
    Patent Nos. 8,825,084 (Count I), 8,326,327 (Count II), 8,296,351 (Count V), and
    8,676,929 (Count VI).

    4. Snap’s counterclaims seeking declaratory judgment of non-infringement
    (First Cause of Action) and declaratory judgment of invalidity (Second Cause of
    Action) in relation to U.S. Patent Nos. 8,825,084, 8,326,327, 8,296,351, and
    8,676,929 are dismissed as moot.'

    6. BlackBerry and Snap have separately agreed regarding the amount of
    taxable costs pursuant to 28 U.S.C. § 1920, Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 54(d),
    and Local Civil Rule 54. Snap is hereby awarded costs in the amount agreed upon by
    the parties.
    Corbu, rarsen and dusdal like this.
    11-27-19 05:54 PM
  3. zeman665's Avatar
    Hi zeman665,

    Thanks for your note. Upon further reading, I think you might be correct.
    I'm not particularly experienced with legal speak; initially, I interpreted from reading Order 3 and 4 as the court siding in BlackBerry's favour.

    However, further researching re: Order 6, '28 U.S.C. § 1920, Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 54(d), and Local Civil Rule 54.' seems to be referring to a 'bill of costs'. Taxable cost awards (see links and below) seem to be awarded to the prevailing party.

    'Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 54(d)(1), states that “costs—other than attorney’s fees—should be allowed to the prevailing party.” The costs that may be taxed are generally outlined at 28 U.S.C. § 1920. '

    I do wonder what this all means for BB...

    Links:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_of_costs
    https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinion.../10-1472-2.PDF
    https://www.mnd.uscourts.gov/FORMS/C...osts-Guide.pdf

    Orders for reference:
    3. Final judgment is hereby entered on BlackBerry’s claims related to U.S.
    Patent Nos. 8,825,084 (Count I), 8,326,327 (Count II), 8,296,351 (Count V), and
    8,676,929 (Count VI).

    4. Snap’s counterclaims seeking declaratory judgment of non-infringement
    (First Cause of Action) and declaratory judgment of invalidity (Second Cause of
    Action) in relation to U.S. Patent Nos. 8,825,084, 8,326,327, 8,296,351, and
    8,676,929 are dismissed as moot.'

    6. BlackBerry and Snap have separately agreed regarding the amount of
    taxable costs pursuant to 28 U.S.C. § 1920, Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 54(d),
    and Local Civil Rule 54. Snap is hereby awarded costs in the amount agreed upon by
    the parties.
    Thank you for the fast reply. I guess we will see what happens on appeal. I paid for a few Pacer monitor court docs in order to research the case. We will see how this all turns out.
    dusdal, Corbu and rampagingpanda like this.
    11-27-19 06:14 PM
  4. rampagingpanda's Avatar
    Thank you for the fast reply. I guess we will see what happens on appeal. I paid for a few Pacer monitor court docs in order to research the case. We will see how this all turns out.
    Yes.. we shall see.

    Just an FYI, I found out about this recently: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket...&order_by=desc

    Courtlistener provides free cached PACER docs (if users download from PACER with their browser plugin installed).
    Corbu, kadakn01 and he_x3 like this.
    11-27-19 06:25 PM
  5. rarsen's Avatar
    OT general privacy reading for the weekend:

    A former CIA agent wants tighter controls around how tech giants use personal data
    "Advertising in itself is not necessarily the problem, it's the fact these [technology] companies have taken all the advertising away from what used to be a regulated market -- think TV and newspapers -- and really brought it into their platforms." "But they may not be selling our data to advertising companies, but they are selling to advertisers this idea that they have so much data on us they know exactly how to target us with exactly what we want to see. Describing how the engines of these companies are "bringing us down more and more extreme paths, and it's wrecking our ability to see that we're even being manipulated". Just last week, Facebook and Google were slammed by Amnesty International for having "surveillance-based" business models that "poses a systemic threat to human rights". In July, Facebook agreed to pay a record $5 billion fine and agreed to conduct an overhaul of its consumer privacy practices as part of a settlement with the US Federal Trade Commission (FTC). As a result of these reviews, Facebook announced in September that it suspended tens of thousands of apps from about 400 developers.

    Over 480 million mobile VPN apps have been downloaded in the past year
    https://www.zdnet.com/article/over-4...24037827013043
    The number is 54% higher than the previous year, which only saw 311 million downloads. "With approaching 1 billion mobile VPN app downloads in just three years, and that's not even counting China, it's clear that internet users around the world are taking actions into their own hands to claw back internet freedoms that are being continually eroded by vested interests,"

    The web in 30 years? It'll be beyond our imagination, says Tim Berners-Lee
    https://www.zdnet.com/article/the-we...24037827013043
    When he launched the project late last year, Berners-Lee warned of the growing challenges facing the modern web, from fake news to the abuse of personal data.
    Corbu likes this.
    11-27-19 06:38 PM
  6. _dimi_'s Avatar
    Where do you see that SNAP settled? According to that court doc, SNAP was awarded payment for costs associated with the litigation. If you look at prior court documents it says blackberry is filing an appeal on the four patents outlined in the final judgement. It doesn't not appear that the final judgement was in Blackberry's favor, unless you're reading this court document differently. Please share!
    Where have you read that BlackBerry is filing an appeal on these particular 4 patents....? They've kept their options open with regards to 2 other patents, for which they can still file an appeal, but IMO they've settled outside of court with regards to the other patents. And BlackBerry has agree to pay a small portion of the costs, which also does not say much about what was agreed?!
    Corbu and Dunt Dunt Dunt like this.
    11-28-19 02:40 AM
  7. rampagingpanda's Avatar
    Where have you read that BlackBerry is filing an appeal on these particular 4 patents....? They've kept their options open with regards to 2 other patents, for which they can still file an appeal, but IMO they've settled outside of court with regards to the other patents. And BlackBerry has agree to pay a small portion of the costs, which also does not say much about what was agreed?!
    Hi dimi,

    What's your interpretation of the final judgement for BB v SNAP?

    Could you share any experience with companies paying the taxable court fees, while winning a settlement?

    Just trying to make sense of Order #6.

    Thanks in advance for any insight you can share.
    dalinxz likes this.
    11-28-19 03:35 AM
  8. EchoTango's Avatar
    Where have you read that BlackBerry is filing an appeal on these particular 4 patents....? They've kept their options open with regards to 2 other patents, for which they can still file an appeal, but IMO they've settled outside of court with regards to the other patents. And BlackBerry has agree to pay a small portion of the costs, which also does not say much about what was agreed?!
    I the name of full disclosure, I have not followed these BB IP legal cases closely but understand the gist of the proceedings and the courtroom dynamics.

    The outcome of this part of the suit sounds like the lawyers are trying to save their reputations by quietly leaving the battlefield with their weapons intact so as not to appear completely stupid for starting the whole affair without any real case. I can only extrapolate someone didn't do his/her diligence properly.

    I suspect this will cause the other parts of the case to collapse like a house of cards. Waste of time money and effort from a company that has none to spare.
    dalinxz and Dunt Dunt Dunt like this.
    11-28-19 09:33 AM
  9. Callum Dickie's Avatar
    are there still any people thinking of investing in anything that has to do with bb? is it even possible?
    dalinxz and techvisor like this.
    11-28-19 09:39 AM
  10. Seadog83's Avatar
    Hi zeman665,

    Thanks for your note. Upon further reading, I think you might be correct.
    I'm not particularly experienced with legal speak; initially, I interpreted from reading Order 3 and 4 as the court siding in BlackBerry's favour.
    Legal stuff is confusing, and for the last year it's been frustrating to constantly hear people going on about "judgement out tomorrow!!!" thinking it was something of substance, but was truly just a judgement about something perfectly boring like whether to change the court venue or not.

    Here's the thing. In terms of the big question (Did SNAP infringe) that question was simply not answered. This "judgement" here was merely in response to the parties request to dismiss the case, and perfunctory house keeping events that go with it.

    Thank you for the fast reply. I guess we will see what happens on appeal. I paid for a few Pacer monitor court docs in order to research the case. We will see how this all turns out.
    What appeal? There motion was a joint one for the case to be dismissed. It was granted. Why would BB/SNAP collectively agree to ask the case to be dismissed, only to appeal it?

    Most likely there was a settlement of some description which we'll likely never find out the details of. This was posted to stock twits, and it references the US PTO removing SNAP from patent challenges due to settlement.

    The BBRY Café.  [Formerly: I support BBRY and I buy shares!]-original_185171510.jpg
    rarsen, La Emperor, Corbu and 3 others like this.
    11-28-19 10:28 AM
  11. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    are there still any people thinking of investing in anything that has to do with bb? is it even possible?
    What do you mean? As in, buy shares?
    11-28-19 10:44 AM
  12. Callum Dickie's Avatar
    Yes investing the wrong word sorry. I have not followed this post and it seems like the post has lost the original topic..
    11-28-19 11:01 AM
  13. Seadog83's Avatar
    I the name of full disclosure, I have not followed these BB IP legal cases closely but understand the gist of the proceedings and the courtroom dynamics.

    The outcome of this part of the suit sounds like the lawyers are trying to save their reputations by quietly leaving the battlefield with their weapons intact so as not to appear completely stupid for starting the whole affair without any real case. I can only extrapolate someone didn't do his/her diligence properly.

    I suspect this will cause the other parts of the case to collapse like a house of cards. Waste of time money and effort from a company that has none to spare.
    While I don't disagree, my take is that it would be good for BB. SNAP was not "awarded" fees in some sort of formal contest. It was merely both BB/SNAP going to Wu and saying "We want to end this, and with these conditions, including BB paying SNAP for these costs" Wu's judgement was basically "ok. granted".

    The awarding of costs would be a saving grace for SNAP's lawyers to show they didn't waste time drawing it out, filing every challenge under the sun. Costs are going to be (relatively speaking) pretty small in money terms, but figuratively large in terms of indicating it was more than just time wasting by SNAP.

    I'm starting to wonder what the point is of bringing up these lawsuits at all in company disclosures. On announcement, everyone thinks it's going to be a payday, then when they inevitably conclude, the answer share holders get is "Lawsuit done. Results are somewhere between a small loss and invalidation of some patents we thought we had, or a big win of a billion dollars, or somewhere in the middle."
    11-28-19 11:04 AM
  14. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Yes investing the wrong word sorry. I have not followed this post and it seems like the post has lost the original topic..
    All the postings about the legal fight is of interest since BB could finally monetize some of the alleged stolen IP of the past decade. It’s the final chapter for it’s mobile business in many aspects.
    dalinxz and Dunt Dunt Dunt like this.
    11-28-19 11:57 AM
  15. Callum Dickie's Avatar
    Thank you, for clearing that up. I think I have kind of missed whats going on. First time my BlackBerry has worked for longer than a year. Havent been on the forum much. Used to scroll around a lot more. So advice for nog is dont but share? Haha
    dalinxz and techvisor like this.
    11-28-19 12:07 PM
  16. BppB's Avatar
    The Court, having read and considered the Joint Stipulation and Request to
    2 Enter Final Judgment Pursuant to Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 54(b) as to Claims
    3 Regarding U.S. Patent Nos. 8,296,351 and 8,676,929 between Plaintiff BlackBerry
    4 Limited (“BlackBerry”) and Defendants Facebook, Inc., WhatsApp Inc., and
    5 Instagram, LLC (collectively, “Defendants”), and for good cause appearing,
    6 HEREBY ORDERS, ADJUDGES, and DECREES that:
    7 1. The Court’s prior orders have adjudicated the invalidity of U.S. Patent
    8 Nos. 8,296,351 and 8,676,929. There is no just reason for delay of an appeal on these
    9 issues, and Final Judgment on these issues is appropriate pursuant to Fed. R. Civ. P.
    10 54(b);
    11 2. Final judgment is hereby entered in Defendants’ favor on BlackBerry’s
    12 claims related to U.S. Patent Nos. 8,296,351 (Count VIII) and 8,676,929 (Count IX);
    13 3. Defendants’ counterclaims seeking declaratory judgment of non-
    14 infringement and invalidity in relation to U.S. Patent Nos. 8,269,351 (Counts 15 and
    15 16) and 8,676,929 (Counts 17 and 18) (First Cause of Action) are dismissed, without
    16 prejudice, as moot;
    17 4. The entry of final judgment herein shall not affect the remaining claims
    18 and counterclaims between the parties and the current case schedule (Dkt. 480)
    19 remains effective;
    20 5. Any request for reimbursement of fees and costs with regard to the issues
    21 on which final judgment is entered shall be addressed after final judgment is entered
    22 with respect to the remaining claims and counterclaims between the parties.
    23
    24
    25 Dated: November 26, 2019 _________________________________
    11-28-19 02:55 PM
  17. _dimi_'s Avatar
    I was wrong about BlackBerry having the option to file an appeal with regards to 2 patents. That is for the Twitter case, where they "temporarily" dropped infringement claims for 2 patents.

    IMO, the judge could have ruled in BlackBerry's favor for only 2 patents:

    8,825,084 and/or 8,326,327

    So the settlement is probably relatively small.
    11-28-19 03:41 PM
  18. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Thank you, for clearing that up. I think I have kind of missed whats going on. First time my BlackBerry has worked for longer than a year. Havent been on the forum much. Used to scroll around a lot more. So advice for nog is dont but share? Haha
    Glad to have you back visiting and participating.
    11-28-19 09:26 PM
  19. EchoTango's Avatar
    Happy Thanksgiving to all our American friends !

    Be thankful for family, health and happiness, irrespective of all our frustrations with the company we love to hate.


    11-29-19 02:40 PM
  20. rarsen's Avatar
    OT general weekend reading for those with interest in Security and Privacy:

    The scariest hacks and vulnerabilities of 2019
    https://www.zdnet.com/article/the-sc...24037827013043
    Yes, this is one of those end-of-year summaries. And it's a long one, since 2019 has been a disaster in terms of cyber-security news, with one or more major stories breaking on a weekly basis.

    Cybersecurity is heading into a recruitment crisis: Here's how we fix the problem
    https://www.zdnet.com/article/cybers...x-the-problem/
    The problem with that is we need another 4 million people to fill current and future security jobs. "Brainstorming, communications, collaboration and teamwork: a few years back those weren't valued in cybersecurity. We just wanted the best and the brightest and the technology expert but now we need somebody who can talk and communicate and facilitate. What we're starting to see is that the typical CISO and security role is morphing from needing the traditional computer science background to a much more diverse non-technical background. Security leaders have to interpret data and tell a story that's going to be meaningful to the CFO, the CEO to the board of directors."
    Corbu, JLagoon and W Hoa like this.
    12-01-19 10:15 AM
  21. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    All the postings about the legal fight is of interest since BB could finally monetize some of the alleged stolen IP of the past decade. It’s the final chapter for it’s mobile business in many aspects.
    If they had gone to trial and won, or if they had clearly settled in BlackBerry's favor.... there are many others out there also using this "stolen IP". This would have only been the start....
    12-02-19 11:16 AM
  22. rarsen's Avatar
    General opinion information:

    5G service is here, but do you really need to get a 5G phone now?
    https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/techn...cid=spartandhp

    Opinion: Believe in a Santa Claus rally if you want, but first look at this chart
    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/be...=mw_latestnews

    Why I may dump Apple in 2020… and why you should consider it too
    https://www.zdnet.com/article/why-i-...24037827013043
    Last edited by rarsen; 12-03-19 at 10:43 AM.
    12-03-19 07:27 AM
  23. _dimi_'s Avatar
    It seems to me that FISI has now settled with ZTE.

    "Joint MOTION to Stay and Notice of Settlement filed by Fundamental Innovation Systems International LLC, ZTE (TX) Inc, ZTE (USA) Inc, ZTE Corporation (Attachments: # 1 Proposed Order) (McMahon, Charles) (Entered: 11/23/2019)"

    2 big settlements in less than 2 months. Are they preparing for something? Or are these lawsuits (many began years ago) just coming to a resolution at the same time?

    https://www.courtlistener.com/docket...&order_by=desc
    12-03-19 03:41 PM
  24. Corbu's Avatar
    Thanks dimi for following that matter up rigorously, as you always do.
    Last edited by Corbu; 12-03-19 at 08:46 PM.
    _dimi_ and rarsen like this.
    12-03-19 07:18 PM
  25. dalinxz's Avatar
    It seems to me that FISI has now settled with ZTE.

    "Joint MOTION to Stay and Notice of Settlement filed by Fundamental Innovation Systems International LLC, ZTE (TX) Inc, ZTE (USA) Inc, ZTE Corporation (Attachments: # 1 Proposed Order) (McMahon, Charles) (Entered: 11/23/2019)"

    2 big settlements in less than 2 months. Are they preparing for something? Or are these lawsuits (many began years ago) just coming to a resolution at the same time?

    https://www.courtlistener.com/docket...&order_by=desc
    Chen likely settled cheap to once again use whatever they had to show revenue, that's what he's been up to many years, although he masks it through asset sales, accounting changes, reporting changes, business changes, strategy changes,......

    The list goes on.

    So settlement was likely on the cheap end, like the cheap guy he claims to be, and will add some fluff (one time 'lumpy' as he likes to call them addition to revenue, which market will obviously ignore as the cash burn continues with bad decisions and eroding business. Chen will command himself for a job well done for settling even though it will be non-material, the descent to $3 will continue as cash burns from the $1Bn still showing little to negative growth. Into next year watsas converts come due, he will choose not to convert and reclaim his note leaving blackberry with less than 300MM cash, probably less from continuing problems.

    Chen will burn the company further as he cries and claims Watsa is the only one who can save the company and Watsa will get his fire sale discount to take the company under shortly thereafter burning shareholders to the crisp, Chen will still get his max compensation mind you.

    Alas this is the blackberry that's been ever since the drunks on the plane and the previous accounting scandals, and use of materials from conflicted zones. Blackberry was a mosquitoe to Facebook, snap, et Al. Instead of Chen banging the dolldrums and spreading message of privacy, he was getting red faced on the company jet traveling across the world meeting with famous people and politicians enhancing his own networks.

    Greed, corruption, and manipulation - we were all right on this board, sadly it was never the shorts. The stink was coming from within.

    Written by a pissed off shareholder! Never again!
    techvisor likes this.
    12-03-19 10:21 PM

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