[morganplus8]

Less any losses incurred from Q2 to Q3. I think it's fair to assume there should be some. There was a reason for doing all that they've done so far, including the original allotment.

Explain to me what the "new" losses are going to be, the ones that we aren't aware of from Q2? They spent $ 750 MM in Q2 on Marketing and other costs, they haven't been heard from since September leading me to believe that the same amount for Q3 doesn't exist. If they cut back on advertising to the tune of 50% due to the lack of interest in their handsets, we could see all future costs buried in savings. This is the whole point of right-sizing the business, to operate at breakeven at the very least. Non-capital costs/charges will be there but they now have tremendous resources in free BB 10 phones to carry them forward into Enterprise BES10.2 up-take. It is not a given that this Q will be a "terrible" one. Try to buy a Z30, they look to be too tight if you ask me.

[cgk]

Sad state of affairs when it's me who has to say GREEN.

[michaelshawn]

Crossing fingers hoping for the best

Posted via CB10

[jfguay2]

I know this is OT, but seing the lenght of the posts on this thread, I wonder if you guys are the best at typing on your phones or not. I created a thread to have a little fun, if you have the time...

Come on, make me proud!
http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...7/#post9700547

[aniym]

They could have bought BBRY for that much.

Cisco plans $4-billion investment in Ontario, could create 1,700 jobs - The Globe and Mail

I think we all prefer a company to invest and CREATE jobs, rather than buy out a failing company and CUT jobs. A takeover of BB at this point would lead to even more layoffs. Half the reason why M&A pitches are accepted by corporate BODs is because of the lure of higher profits (from the acquisition target's operations) with a lower head count.

Hopefully,of the thousands that have lost their jobs at BB in the last few months, some will find their way into this project.

[plasmid_boy]

Sad state of affairs when it's me who has to say GREEN.

How can you say "Sad" and "GREEN" in the same sentence? LOL

[randall2580]

Explain to me what the "new" losses are going to be, the ones that we aren't aware of from Q2? They spent $ 750 MM in Q2 on Marketing and other costs, they haven't been heard from since September leading me to believe that the same amount for Q3 doesn't exist. If they cut back on advertising to the tune of 50% due to the lack of interest in their handsets, we could see all future costs buried in savings. This is the whole point of right-sizing the business, to operate at breakeven at the very least. Non-capital costs/charges will be there but they now have tremendous resources in free BB 10 phones to carry them forward into Enterprise BES10.2 up-take. It is not a given that this Q will be a "terrible" one. Try to buy a Z30, they look to be too tight if you ask me.

I didn't say "terrible" just that I expect losses for the quarter, though if they were terrible I cannot say it would surprise me.

They laid off a fair amount of staff - that requires up front costs. I have commented earlier that I do not believe the Z10's are "free" there is no reason under GAAP to value them at $0. They most likely cut the value way down to a number that is better for them but I do not believe it's $0, nor did I read anything from BlackBerry that leads me to believe they wrote off the inventory entirely - there was a post from another who outlined the write down and how many phones it likely encompassed in another thread I thought was really good.

The cost of ongoing operations is still a huge cost, even with a smaller staff and if they are selling phones the way the reports indicate, they aren't selling phones. The trajectory of service revenue was bad and getting worse.

Trying to buy a Z30 here in the USA is next to impossible but 3 of 4 carriers here felt there wasn't sufficient demand to even carry them the way Rogers is - online, so I am not sure what that would tell me other than perhaps BBRY has finally learned a lesson they didn't learn from Playbook to Z10. Carriers are in the business of selling handsets so why not carry them on line even? Today someone posted Z10 he received from ATT this week had a production date of March 2013. That could be why.

Q10 was expected to sell "in the 10's of millions" are they the next write off? I do not see them around enough to believe sales are going that well. I still see more legacy BB devices in the wild than I do see BB10 devices, and very few Q10s. I know of 1 in my circle of friends. Also I have seen big defections in 2 places I thought would be BlackBerry for life - Brazil and Colombia - Brazil to Android and Colombia to Android and iOS. My business associates coming off legacy there are leaving the platform.

I can continue I suppose but I think the thing that speaks loudest to me is that they had the company for sale for a reason, and I still believe it was because the company had finally started to really hemorrhage money. They have taken steps to stem it as you outline and I am certain that Chen made them take on the additional funding for a reason before he would commit to the company.

Time will tell and I hope I am very very wrong. To me the above is written on the wall.

[W Hoa]

Crossing fingers hoping for the best

Posted via CB10

'Crossing fingers'. Is that a technical sign? Something like a death cross or a golden cross?

[notafanboy]

Quite possible, but normally a company would get something in return and it looks like they didn't. FWIW - My guess - Either they can't yet raise the $250M or outside investors want to see the ER before they invest. It's a nice free peek and lessens their risk and the corp should get something for it - maybe a few basis points off the interest they will have to pay or a small conversion fee. If they got nothing, shame on them ... or they really need the 250M which I doubt right now. JMHO

EDIT: I find it very strange that the $250M option would have expired today, PRIOR to the release of the ER , yet BBRY extends it, apparently for free until after the ER? Convenient for PW don't you think? BTW Preserving the 250M as a "gift" for a newcomer arguably at the expense of the shareholders is likely very illegal and at least improper. Soon enough we shall see...........

What are you trying to say ? Illegal? What are you talking about? Why is it that the same people who say they would never post here again are still posting? Such unnecessary anger

Posted via CB10

[M65c02]

problem with windows application on tablet and phone that it is taking to much memory, storage, battery hog need better processor (even phone today have quad core processor but i dont think it is on same level as dual core PC processor) and it is not touch friendly...

Windows could lead if they can port most of windows application to tablet / phone several years ago...people today already used to using lite application ios, and android offer. most people just need basic computing...that is why i think Tablet and smartphone sales are outselling PC

people who buying windows phone just to used Windows PC application most will come from professional segment who need device that can do microsoft office, photoshop, and other work related application ....taking BB market segment. the other average joe who is the largest market segment happy enough to use platfrom like android/ios to do basic computing.

Yes, we've had this discussion (elsewhere) long before, MSFT lived off its Y2K laurels and Gates missed the best timing for yet another opportunity (cf., internet). Hey, so he's only a mega-mega billionaire instead of a half trillion aire. Regardless, the processors will grow into the WP8 pig code and, therein, also the corporate world struggle for respectable smart phone market share may yet not be lost for Msft.

In the meantime, Nokia has brought the best camera and some pretty shrewd WW advertising to bear in order to capture the other-than business clientele. The eco-system blueprint for a true businessman has come together in some respects much, much better than Apple's. Still MSFT will need to expend much more capital and regain some of Nokia's former 3rd world appeal to convert its smart phones into material sales/profits and reach into the 15+% WW mkt share range.

Posted via CB10

[Superfly_FR]

What are [... ]

Guys, don't get personal. Hammers have hit already.
As a hint, take at least the time to read the whole post before jumping on it.
Often, the end sweets a hard start.
Just sayin'.

Soon enough we shall see...........

[Superfly_FR]

Must read, IMHO.
http://forums.crackberry.com/news-ru...shines-883956/
(P.S: not the thread, the article )

edited: Thanks Ben, I know you found the way already

[bigbadben10]

Link no workie Antoine...

[morganplus8]

I didn't say "terrible" just that I expect losses for the quarter, though if they were terrible I cannot say it would surprise me.

They laid off a fair amount of staff - that requires up front costs. I have commented earlier that I do not believe the Z10's are "free" there is no reason under GAAP to value them at $0. They most likely cut the value way down to a number that is better for them but I do not believe it's $0, nor did I read anything from BlackBerry that leads me to believe they wrote off the inventory entirely - there was a post from another who outlined the write down and how many phones it likely encompassed in another thread I thought was really good.

The cost of ongoing operations is still a huge cost, even with a smaller staff and if they are selling phones the way the reports indicate, they aren't selling phones. The trajectory of service revenue was bad and getting worse.

Trying to buy a Z30 here in the USA is next to impossible but 3 of 4 carriers here felt there wasn't sufficient demand to even carry them the way Rogers is - online, so I am not sure what that would tell me other than perhaps BBRY has finally learned a lesson they didn't learn from Playbook to Z10. Carriers are in the business of selling handsets so why not carry them on line even? Today someone posted Z10 he received from ATT this week had a production date of March 2013. That could be why.

Q10 was expected to sell "in the 10's of millions" are they the next write off? I do not see them around enough to believe sales are going that well. I still see more legacy BB devices in the wild than I do see BB10 devices, and very few Q10s. I know of 1 in my circle of friends. Also I have seen big defections in 2 places I thought would be BlackBerry for life - Brazil and Colombia - Brazil to Android and Colombia to Android and iOS. My business associates coming off legacy there are leaving the platform.

I can continue I suppose but I think the thing that speaks loudest to me is that they had the company for sale for a reason, and I still believe it was because the company had finally started to really hemorrhage money. They have taken steps to stem it as you outline and I am certain that Chen made them take on the additional funding for a reason before he would commit to the company.

Time will tell and I hope I am very very wrong. To me the above is written on the wall.

I wasn't suggesting for a moment that you are talking "terrible things" about BlackBerry.

As for the write-down, you believe they didn't write down 3 million Z10 handsets, you might believe they wrote down 6 million or more handsets and that's a ton of handsets that only need to bring in $ 120/each.. Depending on their plans for those Z10's they could have written off all costs against them , we just don't know. If you are right, 6 million handsets of the Z10 variety will last them for over 12 months worth of sales and promotions.

Yes, they did, and are, still laying off staff, but they accounted for those charges, and, they aren't likely to be spending "50% more on marketing" this quarter considering they stated hardware sales are bad. It is possible that not only are they going through marketing costs similar to Q1, they might even be much less given the dire state of the business. If they reduce costs in that sector alone, they have the additional funds to pay for all of the restructuring for the balance of this Fiscal year, without touching cash.

As far as current business, we'll learn more about that soon enough. I think we need to step away from the idea that BlackBerry put themselves up for sale. They did a strategic review, that's it. From that review it was felt that staying public and not selling off assets was the smartest move. They might have major partnerships lined up because of that review, they might even have a new road map of where their strengths are now and see superior gains in growing the existing business in light of what they learned from potential suitors.

In conclusion, BlackBerry is likely to bulk sell Z10's to Enterprise and do some $ 199.00 recapture at the retail level. They are likely to reign in the production of all models until they complete their internal assessment of the business model. I'll eventually get my Z30 phone and I believe it is worth waiting for, as do many.

[Corbu]

Link no workie Antoine...

Here you go:
BlackBerry enterprise management in focus with CEO letter, BES 10.2

Good read, BTW. Thanks!

[jake simmons3]

Once again we see a image of old devices in a article talking about BBRY. They will try anything to make the perception of bbry look grim

BlackBerry Ltd gives investors more time to buy its debt | Financial Post

[OMGitworks]

What are you trying to say ? Illegal? What are you talking about? Why is it that the same people who say they would never post here again are still posting? Such unnecessary anger

Posted via CB10

If the " board may have reserved this as a welcome "gift " for a newcomer, a partner or whatever with a "deal in progress".
This was what I was responding to. If they BoD was actually doing this, I am betting this illegal under CA securities law. You can't favor a yet to be named partner or investor to the detriment of the current shareholders and withhold material information or cut sweetheart deals for certain people. That's what I was replying to and talking about. Do you disagree?

I keep coming back because of folks like you. Or maybe like a bug flying into the bug zapper, Can't help myself........

BTW _ I am far from angry, this is pure entertainment.

[Shanerredflag]

I'll save ya CGK....
Still Green.

Posted via CB10

[BBNation]

They can't warn about something they have not projected for the quarter. At no time did BB talk about expectations for Q3, therefore they aren't going to warn about something that hasn't been established yet.

Seems everyone is so worried about another drop in the stock. With the announcement last night that they have extended the deadline to take up the "over allotment of bonds", it appears they want it to occur in 2014 and not 2013. If it goes through, they'll have $ 2.6 B cash plus $ 1.0 B bonds plus $ 250 MM (bonus bonds) plus the yearend goal of about $ 800 MM in tax benefits. With $ 9.00/shr in cash, $ 6.00/shr for the stock looks cheap here. Of course, Citi Bank will have you believe that $ 4.6 B in cash is worthless.

That is based on assumption that they will get %500 mil tax rebate for this quarter. Would 1bl cash added to total cash ?

[Superfly_FR]

I'll save ya CGK....
Still Green.

Green by a lot !
Attachment 229607
(for angry posters and co: this is a recurring gag, thank you, save your/our time)

[W Hoa]

Once again we see a image of old devices in a article talking about BBRY. They will try anything to make the perception of bbry look grim

It gets worse. An article written yesterday about bad drivers with graphic of an old BlackBerry right under a banner ad sponsored by BlackBerry:

[spiller]

Explain to me what the "new" losses are going to be, the ones that we aren't aware of from Q2? They spent $ 750 MM in Q2 on Marketing and other costs, they haven't been heard from since September leading me to believe that the same amount for Q3 doesn't exist. If they cut back on advertising to the tune of 50% due to the lack of interest in their handsets, we could see all future costs buried in savings. This is the whole point of right-sizing the business, to operate at breakeven at the very least. Non-capital costs/charges will be there but they now have tremendous resources in free BB 10 phones to carry them forward into Enterprise BES10.2 up-take. It is not a given that this Q will be a "terrible" one. Try to buy a Z30, they look to be too tight if you ask me.

The only sign I see of tight Z30 supply is that they are trying to work a JIT manufacturing and delivery process. I really want to see their hardware committed future liabilities shrink by a good billion. That will de-myth the "they owe 3B in future hardware expenses and they aren't selling phones so that wipes out their cash".

And I totally agree that the Marketing dollars were cut maybe even as high as 80%, unless their deals with F1 and MSG (NY) and such are quarterly paid and weren't paid up front...

[randall2580]

I wasn't suggesting for a moment that you are talking "terrible things" about BlackBerry.

As for the write-down, you believe they didn't write down 3 million Z10 handsets, you might believe they wrote down 6 million or more handsets and that's a ton of handsets that only need to bring in $ 120/each.. Depending on their plans for those Z10's they could have written off all costs against them , we just don't know. If you are right, 6 million handsets of the Z10 variety will last them for over 12 months worth of sales and promotions.

Yes, they did, and are, still laying off staff, but they accounted for those charges, and, they aren't likely to be spending "50% more on marketing" this quarter considering they stated hardware sales are bad. It is possible that not only are they going through marketing costs similar to Q1, they might even be much less given the dire state of the business. If they reduce costs in that sector alone, they have the additional funds to pay for all of the restructuring for the balance of this Fiscal year, without touching cash.

As far as current business, we'll learn more about that soon enough. I think we need to step away from the idea that BlackBerry put themselves up for sale. They did a strategic review, that's it. From that review it was felt that staying public and not selling off assets was the smartest move. They might have major partnerships lined up because of that review, they might even have a new road map of where their strengths are now and see superior gains in growing the existing business in light of what they learned from potential suitors.

In conclusion, BlackBerry is likely to bulk sell Z10's to Enterprise and do some $ 199.00 recapture at the retail level. They are likely to reign in the production of all models until they complete their internal assessment of the business model. I'll eventually get my Z30 phone and I believe it is worth waiting for, as do many.

We agree more than we disagree about this I think, just maybe not about how this all comes to the bottom line in this quarter. I knew what you were saying about "terrible" not things but "numbers". Again I don't think this quarter will be "terrible" only that over all, before items like tax returns, they will continue to show an operating loss.

I don't think you will see any major partnerships announced until the potential partners are more secure in where BlackBerry stands over time and if Chen can show strong leadership. I do think they would have sold the company if they could have found a suitor who would have taken the whole thing, and perhaps it's good that an HP didn't come along as they did for Palm speaking metaphorically, so that BlackBerry have this chance now to make it right. The company had a buyer for the whole thing so technically they were for sale - the board accepted the tender offer. It's semantics I know as it didn't go through. But it leads me to believe that if there was an offer that exceeded $9 for the whole company, it would have been seriously considered.

I wrote here in the forum way back when this post started, if not in this particular post then in others around that same time that we would have a better idea of where BlackBerry stood with BB10 in this quarterly report (the 3rd quarterly report after the release of BB10) and I still believe that this report will say a lot about the future of BB10 and of the company. 3 Quarters in, with the major devices available to the market, BES10 on showcase, and (who could have seen it at the time I certainly did not) the wild cards like BBM on the table now.

Its just a few days more, will be interesting to see where they are.

[spiller]

That is based on assumption that they will get %500 mil tax rebate for this quarter. Would 1bl cash added to total cash ?

1B will add to total cash, and added to debt. Overall net balance will be even without other considerations.

[bungaboy]

It gets worse. An article written yesterday about bad drivers with graphic of an old BlackBerry right under a banner ad sponsored by BlackBerry:

What else would you expect from the Globe and Mail?