View Poll Results: Did you buy shares ?

Voters
1110. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, I'm acting now !

    694 62.52%
  • No

    416 37.48%
  1. Korepab's Avatar
    I hope they make voice and video available on xBBM soon. I have never used Kik so can't say about it, but WhatsApp, LINE, and iMessage are not in the same league as BBM.

    Posted via CB10
    Yes! They need to get at least voice chat out before Christmas. Preferably with channels released as well. BBM channel has been in beta forever. What else are they trying to test?

    They better market the heck out their natural sound technology. Or at least how clear Bbm voice is compared to other competition.

    Posted via CB10
    11-17-13 11:15 AM
  2. M65c02's Avatar
    It is also worth noting that as of 9/30/2013, most of the top institutional holders increased their positions.
    In particular,
    Bank of America: +28%
    Morgan Stanley: +36%
    Bank of Montreal: +32%
    Goldman Sachs: +33%
    I wonder why these big boys pour more money into a supposedly dying company...:sarcastic:
    And Barclays more than tripled their position.
    But, to be fair, there is also another list who have reduced their holdings. That list includes Invesco, Citi, and Deutsche Bank.
    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    Don't wonder too long and get too caught up in the shifting of a few million dollars by these players from their respective tech funds. They are not buying exclusively for their own accounts, and, even if they were, it would be simply a pump and b/dump favor (yes, this still occurs in 2013). The percentages in the manner you list them, of course, are irrelevant. Bank of Montreal's involvement needs no explanation; Goldman and BOA have been told to take minor positions that also place them in favor for future considerations--the real golden fleece. Morgan, as posted a few months back, likely is the lead player from this group after Prem who is clearly and unequivocally in the driver's seat. Make no mistake, this is a material play for Prem but if he gets cornered, he has a plan to step out (whether with a wash or minor profit) in consideration for a future/past favor.

    Hey, but do you really need to ask this (rhetorical?!) question while inferring a positive future for BB? Whether a true question or sarcasm, you hold the answer in your hand ... "message sent from my IPhone 5s." That is, can BB make it as a second tier phone or second car in the garage player re-emerging from their current 0% of the smart phone market....very difficult and historically rarely successful task.

    M65 that is a pretty epic post.
    One question for you. How does BBRY maintain the cash pile (which has been fairly static for the last year) without any free cash flow? And these investments that have come in plus the tax refund that is coming they are cash flow. BBRY certainly has the cash to make moves and do something. I don't really know what that will be though. I like my Q10. (Side note, I was having trouble with an App so I decided I'd try a reboot the other day. It then occurred to me that I'd never had a crash causing a reboot during the three months I've had the thing. That is pretty neat.) Anyway, I like my Q10, but the OS is not attractive and I can't see anyone going with it as their exclusive phone. There just aren't enough Apps. I carry two phones and with shared data plans it really isn't too expensive. Also I don't have to worry about battery life. The Q10 is strong in that department (though somewhat inconsistent based on which Apps are left running) and made more so since a lot of the more intensive App activity ends up happening on my iPhone 5. But can duel phone users possibly be a large enough market? No chance would be my guess.
    Okay, good comment. Actually, CB has had some major trouble with their cash positions as of late--i.e., intro of Z10. For example, in the past six months alone BB has shed a half billion in cash and nearly mirrors ($400B thru mid-fiscal) this decline in "free" cash. If you dig deeper, you'll find that their earnings inarguably have been dismal during this same period and operating income has been in the red for over a year. With no unit sales on the horizon for the BB10 devices, that once great horde of gold (cash) is subject to some real spending pressure. But for the legacy phones, there'd be no cash for 2014. BB requires 20mm, okay maybe 15mm, in new unit OS10 sales a year to survive into the next generation ... a common sense number often quoted beginning in March 2013. Even being generous, BB will sell less than 4mm at planned profit, less than 8mm at any profit, and maybe 10mm w/give-aways in yr 1: These all round to 0% of the new phone market..... (Frankly, I think that there remains some overly generous accounting on the BB books given less than a few million OS10 phones have been sold 9 mths after introduction.)

    Today, now granted there remains a good cash position disproportionate with BB's horrendous misfire with OS10. Some would say that such is due to BB mgmt. having been "penny wise and pound foolish" and, as a general statement, I concur with this evaluation. Yet, for completeness, I cannot agree w/o reservation with those that would have had BB spend another half billion on marketing the introduction of OS10 and the Z10 phone. OS10 simply wasn't ready for prime time and was an embarrassment relative to IOS/Droid. The Z10 could not be relied upon for the serious business user nor could it be handed to Sally teenager or Michael the college student. OS10 had many bugs, it rebooted and froze, there were no Apps, communication interleaving/hand-off issues, and the battery on the Z10 was ridiculous: All the reliability that legacy users had come to know was absent. Moreover, as is still true today, there is no discernible target market for OS10 phones save, perhaps, cornering a portion of the existing qwerty BB legacy users to flip to a Q10--to which BB failed.

    Your statement (bolded in your quote above) indirectly sums up the symptoms for BB's demise. The current OS10 (phones) is (are) not ready to replace the total functionality expected from a smart phone today. Therefore, the Z/Q's have a few loyal followers of multi-phone consumers but no measureable portion of consumers are going to purchase an OS10 phone as their sole smart phone. (Note: I noted in the spring how many people seemed to like their Z10's but, even within the small world of CB posters, an inordinate number of people were posting from alien phones and/or volunteering that they also had IOS or Droid phones.....It was clear, then, that even if you could find one on the street, the Z10 was not going to be a first nor exclusive choice of smart phone for those that did choose to purchase.)

    Finally, as an aside, your comments on the battery are interesting....never heard any legitimate source compliment an OS10 battery but at least the Q10 battery was given a bit more punch over that found in the Z. As far as the Q10/Z10's, perhaps a quick, recent story sums things up. I have a business relation that I saw recently. He has used BB/RIM devices going back to the pseudo-pagers--i.e., before most posters here could read. He is among the staunchest BB supporters and suffered--as so many of us--with his Bolds awaiting the long overdue intro of the promised land--OS10 phones and especially a modernized qwerty based BB. He is on the Verizon network and uses only the BB pre-loaded Apps--nothing special running in the background. But his battery must be supplemented (w/a 2nd after market battery), OS10 still reboots/freezes approx. 4x per day, and he must carry a back-up phone. Sure, despite his threat to mash the Q10 under the tires of his (expensive) car ), he'll probably hold onto the Q10 for the contract period, relegating it to a back-up number. (He had tried to call/text me w/his Q10 rebooting and my Z10--unbeknownst to me--froze while I waited over an extra hour for his late arrival at the 5star restaurant. Remember, one will not even be able to reach the voice mail of a frozen--here mine--phone in these conditions.) BUT if things are scary now, how many other users of the already negligible numbers of our ultra-small OS10 family will rollover their phones in 2015?!?

    Think about it ... there's rarely a new sequence of events that can't be found in history.
    Last edited by M65c02; 11-17-13 at 04:29 PM.
    chr1sny likes this.
    11-17-13 11:55 AM
  3. sidhuk's Avatar
    Yes! They need to get at least voice chat out before Christmas. Preferably with channels released as well. BBM channel has been in beta forever. What else are they trying to test?

    They better market the heck out their natural sound technology. Or at least how clear Bbm voice is compared to other competition.

    Posted via CB10
    And advertise the signal strength.
    11-17-13 01:15 PM
  4. JLagoon's Avatar
    One has to wonder if a garbage app like snapchat was offered $3-4 billion dollars how much would bbm be worth?

    Posted via CB10
    Exactly. This grinds my gears.
    morganplus8, sidhuk, Corbu and 4 others like this.
    11-17-13 01:18 PM
  5. fedakd's Avatar
    Currently the market values it at $0.00. BlackBerry trades below cash value. It's not right by any means, but can't argue with Mr. Market.

    Exactly. This grinds my gears.
    11-17-13 01:49 PM
  6. sidhuk's Avatar
    At what point do we see blackberry forcing shorts to buy back shares? By creating a situation where bbm or any other assets are turned in to independent assets or any other similar situations where all the shares needs to be accountant for?
    Edit: or do we see it is getting more ugly share price?
    11-17-13 02:03 PM
  7. fedakd's Avatar
    The point at which we could see BlackBerry shorts buying back their shares in a somewhat forcible manner could be next ER if BlackBerry somehow reports a lower decrease in cash on its B/S than is expected by the market. Let's not forget that due to new revenue recognition policies, BlackBerry did not recognize revenue on ~2M handsets in the previous quarter, the balance of which will likely be recognized this quarter in addition to any other sales. That said, I truly believe that actual sales of BB10 devices this quarter will be grim. Very grim. Sales of BBOS in emerging markets could very well surprise though. An overall reduction in costs (SG&A) offset by higher than expected profitability on BB10 devices due to the previous write-down could make for some good news. I am hopeful, but hope is a poor hedge.

    The time for a JV is now. We have heard nothing about BBM-X in weeks. The market is ascribing negative EV for the company. Shorts are betting on bankruptcy and future cash burn. If that happens, Watsa et all likely have control of the restructuring process, likely selling pieces of the company for much, much more than the market is currently valuing them for. Meanwhile, shareholders will receive pennies on the dollar. Now you all have some insight as to why I see Prem Watsa as a scheister!

    Next quarter will be very interesting. I will be looking at cash burn & sales. If these worsen, anyone take a guess at what the media will continue to report? The self-fulfilling prophecy of BlackBerry's death will then, most unfortunately, continue.

    At what point do we see blackberry forcing shorts to buy back shares? By creating a situation where bbm or any other assets are turned in to independent assets or any other similar situations where all the shares needs to be accountant for?
    Last edited by fedakd; 11-17-13 at 02:23 PM.
    Corbu, Korepab, sidhuk and 2 others like this.
    11-17-13 02:12 PM
  8. cgk's Avatar
    Btw if you plan to install APKs my advice is clear. Don't question: go 1mobile.com with your browser. What else ? If you know how to read: nothing. So easy it's indecency !

    Posted via CB10
    A site of unknown ownership registered in China?

    Better you than me...
    11-17-13 03:25 PM
  9. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    One has to wonder if a garbage app like snapchat was offered $3-4 billion dollars how much would bbm be worth?
    Snapchat is a bold, innovative social media product with few/no competitors. It was developed by Stanford University students.If Blackberry had a product with a fraction of the ingenuity of Snapchat, it would be worth a lot more as well.

    Bashing innovative products you don't like is not going to make any of Blackberry's products less pedestrian or more appealing. Snapchat isn't even direct competition to Blackberry so any "hate" toward it is silly.
    leafs123 and chr1sny like this.
    11-17-13 04:00 PM
  10. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    A site of unknown ownership registered in China?

    Better you than me...
    Noticed it after being warned on CB ambassador Group
    Must say I didn't wait to be warned to be prudent and I removed the store app as soon as the few apps I installed were here.

    Since, I've been installing the Android CB Forums app using another simple process http://apps.evozi.com/apk-downloader.
    Not sure how it can be labeled safer, I believe we'll learn from our experts what to do/ not to do.

    Posted via CB10
    bungaboy and plasmid_boy like this.
    11-17-13 05:25 PM
  11. JonCBK's Avatar
    Hmm. My experience with Q10 battery is that it is pretty good. But every now and then, I think because of Apps left in active state, it dies faster than I expect. But having to worry about charging the phone every day is the exception. It can usually go a day and a half. And I haven't had freezes or crashes at all. I'm also on Verizon network with it. But as I state I use two phones and that splits my usage between two batteries. I also can't imagine just going with a BBRY and giving up access to almost all Apps at this point. However, I've got a iPad Mini with LTE currently coming in the mail. That will give me portable iOS access and make the iPhone 5 less important. But I probably will run around with all three.
    I doubt I can be counted on to buy another BBRY in 2015 as this Q10 seems quite robust. I'm definitely hoping for three years of use from it with the battery being replaced at some point (maybe with something stronger that fits in the same spot, if that is possible).
    11-17-13 06:03 PM
  12. M65c02's Avatar
    We had the battery wars back in March/April/May. After clearing out and exposing some of the chaff, it was pretty well excepted that the Z10 was underpowered with evidence coming from BB acknowledgment itself in having upgraded the battery for the less power sensitive Q10.

    An easy "battery story test" comes from hearing that someone gets more than a day on a charge .... with any smart phone !!! Although it may very well be, no smart phone--BB or otherwise--will get over a day if it is used with medium, let alone heavy usage. The goal is to get a solid 10+, or at least 8+ hours (of medium/heavy usage). You are simply not putting the phone to any real test: Hey, absolutely nothing wrong with that, nor any stigma attached. I also won't get bogged down here on semantics with medium vs. heavy because it isn't important (and is yet another horse long since beaten and buried in the analogs of CB). BB realized their battery foible, however, and did boost your Q's battery by 20% over the Z's--and it follows that there seem to be less complaints about Qs.

    It's also good that you haven't experienced freezes or crashes but this simply is another indication that you haven't need to put the Q through a real test. (To be accurate and fair, I haven't had any phone since 1984 that hasn't had a freeze or crash--nor, for that matter, mini/micro-computer since the micro-coding 70's w/o some glitches.) More than likely you have had a few freezes or reboots but were unaware. (In my story posted above, for example, it was unknown to me that I had a freeze but for the business associate that arrived to tell me--having frantically tried to reach me for an hour.) Regardless, it goes without saying that if your purposes are served by a particular phone and you haven't incurred "issues" otherwise common, the merrier for you.

    BTW, and similar to you, I do prefer to keep my (reliable) phones and not flip willy-nilly with every new product or at the end of every contract commitment. That's why I hope that OS10 somehow lives long and thrives even as the prospects for a long-term BB/RIM as we knew and loved continues to wither.

    [Note: If not known prior, I confess to continuing with 3 BB's running and also a complex network interfacing with Droid and W8 devices too....Give me a reliable phone and space for two micro sims--like an old Curve model !!!!]
    Last edited by M65c02; 11-18-13 at 05:35 PM.
    11-17-13 07:10 PM
  13. peter9477's Avatar
    Shorts are betting on bankruptcy and future cash burn. If that happens, Watsa et all likely have control of the restructuring process, likely selling pieces of the company for much, much more than the market is currently valuing them for. Meanwhile, shareholders will receive pennies on the dollar. Now you all have some insight as to why I see Prem Watsa as a scheister!
    (It's "shyster", by the way.) I have a hard time imaging a way in which Prem manages to sell the company off for more than the market values them for. Also how he would be able to do that while giving all the other shareholders less than their fair share of the pie. I emphasize "other" because that's all he is here... a shareholder. (Yes, also a director... but that means he works for us, the other shareholders. Although... I forgot, you're not actually counted in that group any more, right?)

    Gotta say, by the way, that reading your recent posts makes me think of the many past haters where they would post the same tired negative arguments over and over, daily, as though it was new each time. Might surprise you to learn that, but I honestly can hardly tell the difference at this point. Might be something to think about since, I think, you were once one of the most vocal opponents of that sort of thing. (My apologies if I'm wrong about that.)
    11-17-13 07:27 PM
  14. fedakd's Avatar
    (It's "shyster", by the way.) I have a hard time imaging a way in which Prem manages to sell the company off for more than the market values them for. Also how he would be able to do that while giving all the other shareholders less than their fair share of the pie. I emphasize "other" because that's all he is here... a shareholder. (Yes, also a director... but that means he works for us, the other shareholders. Although... I forgot, you're not actually counted in that group any more, right?)

    Gotta say, by the way, that reading your recent posts makes me think of the many past haters where they would post the same tired negative arguments over and over, daily, as though it was new each time. Might surprise you to learn that, but I honestly can hardly tell the difference at this point. Might be something to think about since, I think, you were once one of the most vocal opponents of that sort of thing. (My apologies if I'm wrong about that.)
    You are correct. I was opposed to it in the past. But now, that is what I believe. Anyone here that thinks or believes Prem is your "friend" needs to think again. I support the company, and still love BlackBerry (Getting a Z30 next week!). But I do not support management or where they are headed at this point. Because on their current path they are headed to oblivion.
    11-17-13 09:06 PM
  15. silversun10's Avatar
    Don't wonder too long and get too caught up in the shifting of a few million dollars by these players from their respective tech funds. They are not buying exclusively for their own accounts, and, even if they were, it would be simply a pump and b/dump favor (yes, this still occurs in 2013). The percentages in the manner you list them, of course, are irrelevant. Bank of Montreal's involvement needs no explanation; Goldman and BOA have been told to take minor positions that also place them in favor for future considerations--the real golden fleece. Morgan, as posted a few months back, likely is the lead player from this group after Prem who is clearly and unequivocally in the driver's seat. Make no mistake, this is a material play for Prem but if he gets cornered, he has a plan to step out (whether with a wash or minor profit) in consideration for a future/past favor.

    Hey, but do you really need to ask this (rhetorical?!) question while inferring a positive future for BB? Whether a true question or sarcasm, you hold the answer in your hand ... "message sent from my IPhone 5s." That is, can BB make it as a second tier phone or second car in the garage player re-emerging from their current 0% of the smart phone market....very difficult and historically rarely successf
    "pump & dump" when do we get the pump?
    11-17-13 11:39 PM
  16. xDragonZ's Avatar
    Noticed it after being warned on CB ambassador Group
    Must say I didn't wait to be warned to be prudent and I removed the store app as soon as the few apps I installed were here.

    Since, I've been installing the Android CB Forums app using another simple process APK Downloader [Latest] Download Directly | Chrome Extension v2 (Evozi Official).
    Not sure how it can be labeled safer, I believe we'll learn from our experts what to do/ not to do.

    Posted via CB10
    Hi, there. I'm one of the Evozi developer, all the apks at Evozi is 100% from Google Play. We also provide md5 for user to verify the file. Unlike 1mobile some apps has been modify before, if anyone want prove that 1mobile apps has been modify, you can PM me to get the name of the apps.
    11-18-13 12:31 AM
  17. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    Hi, there. I'm one of the Evozi developer, all the apks at Evozi is 100% from Google Play. We also provide md5 for user to verify the file. Unlike 1mobile some apps has been modify before, if anyone want prove that 1mobile apps has been modify, you can PM me to get the name of the apps.
    Hi xDragonZ,
    I've been using your service, seems cool.
    Yet, the website is full of advertising page, one of those being a "flash plugin update" which looks highly suspicious to me (I may be wrong ... but my player is up to date ...). While I know you need it to "survive", You should fix that for a better trust sentiment IMHO.
    SF
    morganplus8, gg22 and Randeman like this.
    11-18-13 03:41 AM
  18. cgk's Avatar
    Is this what the bright future is? Trying to work out if the .apk site you using is full of malware?

    Reminds me of this picture I saw on twitter.

    The BBRY Café.  [Formerly: I support BBRY and I buy shares]-warez.png
    techvisor likes this.
    11-18-13 03:58 AM
  19. SasBB's Avatar
    Sales of BBOS in emerging markets could very well surprise though.
    I believe this one will be surprisingly bad.
    Many friends of mine in the emerging countries are switching to iOS or Android due to the release of xbbm.
    While they are not representing the whole emerging countries, I think it is a good sample to estimate low BBOS devices sales over the next quarters.
    The download number of xBBM in Google Play and App Store shows you also the number of people switching from BBOS devices to either Android or iPhone.

    I hope Chen will have a good strategy to help Blackberry.
    11-18-13 04:32 AM
  20. cgk's Avatar
    I'm curious how many Q5s were made and if we will see a writedown on them?

    It's a very basic rule of thumb but if you think that the percentage of users who end up here should be relative to each other as a percentage of overall population, then sales were truly pathetic.

    The BBRY Café.  [Formerly: I support BBRY and I buy shares]-capture.png
    techvisor likes this.
    11-18-13 04:59 AM
  21. _dimi_'s Avatar
    I'm curious how many Q5s were made and if we will see a writedown on them?

    It's a very basic rule of thumb but if you think that the percentage of users who end up here should be relative to each other as a percentage of overall population, then sales were truly pathetic.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Capture.PNG 
Views:	851 
Size:	41.0 KB 
ID:	221946
    It's a no-brainer that we'll see see further (a complete?) write -down of their inventory, millions of free handsets to attract companies to BES10, hopefully a complete discontinuation of their hardware division in which case they'll license out BB10 to handle the low volumes for companies/governments still demanding the end-to-end BlackBerry solution. I want to see their costs cut to a fraction of what it used to be. And I want the government to tax credit them through this period. Finally, I want Chen to attract partnerships that will reveal the value of the NOC and QNX.

    Posted via CB10
    11-18-13 05:28 AM
  22. cgk's Avatar
    I can't see who you'd license it out to ? As you say, the volume is so low and BB10 has been such a sales dud, who is going to want to take on a licence?
    techvisor likes this.
    11-18-13 06:35 AM
  23. _dimi_'s Avatar
    Well that's the 8 billion dollar question

    Posted via CB10
    11-18-13 06:51 AM
  24. leafs123's Avatar
    I don't understand why they're even contemplating releasing the rumoured Z50 and Q30. Who's going to buy these?
    gg22 and techvisor like this.
    11-18-13 07:52 AM
  25. Shanerredflag's Avatar
    Lol...BES clients have Zero to worry about concerning the APK files and clearly 80% of consumers in the world don't have an issue with it either....more FUD.
    Google grief.

    Posted via CB10
    11-18-13 08:04 AM
107,080 ... 22012202220322042205 ...

Similar Threads

  1. Does the Motion have the paratek antenna?
    By Steve Pogue in forum BlackBerry Motion
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 01-13-18, 12:33 AM
  2. Replies: 11
    Last Post: 11-23-17, 11:06 PM
  3. Will Hub+ work on the new Google Pixelbook?
    By danosman in forum BlackBerry HUB+ Suite
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 11-02-17, 07:42 AM
  4. BlackBerry highlights the impact of KRACK vulnerability on BlackBerry products
    By CrackBerry News in forum CrackBerry.com News Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-30-17, 03:10 PM
  5. Hub and Viber notifications broken
    By LyoobaBerry in forum BlackBerry HUB+ Suite
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-30-17, 02:54 PM

Tags for this Thread

LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD