View Poll Results: Did you buy shares ?

Voters
1106. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, I'm acting now !

    693 62.66%
  • No

    413 37.34%
  1. cgk's Avatar
    $18 would be great for me.

    In regards to Apple, downward trend of ASP - which in the wider context of the market slowdown we have been discussing isn't actually great news for BBRY.
    07-23-13 03:45 PM
  2. lcjr's Avatar
    Tomorrow's Short Interest report should be interesting. Any chance the SI has grown?? lol
    07-23-13 03:45 PM
  3. bungaboy's Avatar
    The poison spreads . . . . . . .
    07-23-13 03:45 PM
  4. cgk's Avatar
    26M actually. Down 17% from last Q and down 15% YoY.
    Where are you getting this 26m figure from? Everyone else is reporting 31m.
    07-23-13 03:46 PM
  5. JLagoon's Avatar
    AH has reached 700,000 in volume. That is unusual.
    cjcampbell likes this.
    07-23-13 03:47 PM
  6. Kid Vibe's Avatar
    Tomorrow's Short Interest report should be interesting. Any chance the SI has grown?? lol
    SI probably has grown to the point where the only ones not shorting are us on this thread lol... Woo.
    07-23-13 03:48 PM
  7. lcjr's Avatar
    Yezzir. Ditto. Ha. Minimum 18 dollar buyout is in my books.

    My false hope tells me that TH dumbed down expectations for the next ER and BB will surprise us with break-even/small profits. Otherwise, what other news could possibly help? By March ER, we will know if this company is on the right path with BBM and BES10 out and about (also the A10).
    That's exactly right. By next March ER, all the devices will have been out to include the A10 to some extent. If BB still isn't doing good then staying long will not be for me. By the December ER SP we'll know 90% of what to expect though.
    07-23-13 03:49 PM
  8. Soumaila Somtore's Avatar
    Be patient! It's take time to go to DAa Mooon. But we will get there!
    Well.... Here I am all buckled in ready for blast off but nothings happening! CJ, please check the rockets... m0de25, please make sure the beer's packed...Kid, make sure the circumforculator is plugged into the widget for maximum velocity!
    bungaboy and rarsen like this.
    07-23-13 03:50 PM
  9. kfh227's Avatar
    Tomorrow's Short Interest report should be interesting. Any chance the SI has grown?? lol
    About 6 days past after earnings for this release. Probably some covering but not a lot.

    Posted via CB10
    07-23-13 03:50 PM
  10. lcjr's Avatar
    SI probably has grown to the point where the only ones not shorting are us on this thread lol... Woo.
    Damn, I had to laugh out loud on that one!!
    07-23-13 03:50 PM
  11. leafs123's Avatar
    Where are you getting this 26m figure from? Everyone else is reporting 31m.
    Sorry, my bad. Read the wrong thing. That was the est. Deleted my post.
    07-23-13 03:50 PM
  12. lcjr's Avatar
    The poison spreads . . . . . . .
    We need more Kool-Aide!
    m0de25 and bungaboy like this.
    07-23-13 03:52 PM
  13. kfh227's Avatar
    AH has reached 700,000 in volume. That is unusual.
    676k one minute after the close.

    Posted via CB10
    07-23-13 03:52 PM
  14. ibpluto's Avatar
    APPL killing it in after hours. Beat the street
    07-23-13 03:53 PM
  15. shadowy banger from a shadowy duplex's Avatar
    Groans aside, I think the issue of whether a native app performs significantly and meaningfully "better" than or as well as an HTML app is a very complex one that doesn't easily lend itself to broad and hasty conclusions.

    Here's a great example: The game "Cut The Rope". This is, by all measures, an incredibly complex animated puzzle game that renders a rope and some cute animated creatures with astounding fidelity to real-world physics. I have the version of the game for the iPad (a native app)--and it runs smoothly and beautifully.

    At some point some months ago, Microsoft sent me an email that provided links to a new browser-version of the game designed to run in an IE desktop browser. If you haven't seen it, it's here and it's free (I discovered that it runs just as well in Chrome):
    Cut the Rope
    (Visit Cut the Rope | Behind the Scenes if you want to learn more about how the dev team pulled it off!)

    The development team essentially ported the game from the iOS Objective C version to HTML 5, JavaScript, and CSS 3. While the game is running, the IE browser is executing a minified version of roughly 15,000 lines of JavaScript ported from the original Objective C code. The game performs so well that I simply cannot discern any performance difference between the native iOS app version and the HTML 5 version. Now I realize that this is one example--but it's a darned good example because it is far from a trivial one.

    In general, to have productive conversations about native app performance versus HTML 5 app performance requires that we agree on what exactly is being measured--and that we have an objective way to take that measurement. I imagine that there are indeed native apps that cannot run as HTML apps and vice versa; but I also feel that most apps can run adequately as either and that end users wouldn't know the difference in most cases.

    Finally, I think it's important to point out that the performance yield you get from a program, whether compiled or interpreted, is often a matter of how well-written and well-designed it is. You can have a bad programmer write something in Objective C that can't beat a well-written JavaScript application running on the same hardware--much the way a supercharged Jaguar XJR isn't going to be faster than a Honda Civic if Civic is operating to spec and the Jaguar has fouled spark plugs, a clogged air filter, and a dirty fuel line.
    Your example app is anything but typical. It is assigned a team of developers from the dominant PC OS company with 50 billion or so in cash that is struggling with the post-PC transition and is desperate to prove they can stay relevant in the future (Google tablet marketshare vs PC marketshare trends yourself). Picks an iOS game with simple graphics. Hires the original game designers (call it partner if you like, but who do you think is paying the development costs here?), and also hires another little digital design and development agnecy (you would think that MS and the original game designers should be able to manage it) whose clients include Disney, Google and Yahoo.

    How easy was it with all this talent?
    "It was a daunting task"

    I also take exception to your rendering with your "astounding fidelity' comments as well. It (the graphics) is incredibly simplistic. Static background with a few low complexity sprites following simple patterns. I agree that the "business logic" (string physics etc) is nicely ported, but this pattern has been common at least since the "write once run anywhere" heyday of client side Java.

    Platform human interface guidelines vary widely. Cross platform apps (whether HTML, Java etc) must target lowest common denominator functionality or expend a great deal of effort to trigger custom behaviours (this effort generally still falls short and ends up chewing developer time at an amazing rate). Fifteen years or so ago, the "write once, run anywhere" Java was going to finally allow cross platrorm apps to take over, or at least survive. With the exception of some application development tools like Eclipse, Netbeans etc, it was a resounding flop for client-side applications. Applications could encapsulate the basic functionality but just looked and felt wrong (violated HIG) and generally performed poorly.

    Will cross platform app development for anything of moderate or greater complexity without inordinate expenditures of effort be possible in the future? Maybe, as I stated previously, but it is not here yet.
    "Perhaps in some great bright future there will truly be a WORE protocol. Maybe it will even be a variant of HTML5".

    OK, maybe I am overstating the difficulty. If HTML5 apps are comparatively easy to develop and deliver high quality cross platform results, there should be lots of Cut the Rope level HTML5 apps out there. And since cross platform (the whole point, right?) is apparently not a big problem, we should commonly see them on BB10 as well.

    List these "good as native" HTML5 apps for BB10 please. For bonus points, show me where else these cross platform apps run. That is the whole point of even trying with HTML5 versus native tools/languages.

    I await your examples. This should really solve one of BB10's greatest impediments to success in the market.
    danprown likes this.
    07-23-13 03:54 PM
  16. lcjr's Avatar
    Be patient! It's take time to go to DAa Mooon. But we will get there!
    Oh I'm patient. I'm sitting back sipping on beers until next March ER. It's just cumbersome to maintain composure while shorts are sabotaging the ship we're in. lol
    07-23-13 03:55 PM
  17. Soumaila Somtore's Avatar
    Not me I am still dreaming for the $100 party I will host it in my NJ 107 sqft property. A man can dream right?
    I'd take it at this point.

    Posted via CB10
    07-23-13 03:58 PM
  18. Soumaila Somtore's Avatar
    Agree!
    Oh I'm patient. I'm sitting back sipping on beers until next March ER. It's just cumbersome to maintain composure while shorts are sabotaging the ship we're in. lol
    07-23-13 04:00 PM
  19. cjcampbell's Avatar
    About 6 days past after earnings for this release. Probably some covering but not a lot.

    Posted via CB10
    No no.... the last report was up to the 28th. This one is 100% post er.
    07-23-13 04:00 PM
  20. cjcampbell's Avatar
    Call starting....
    07-23-13 04:02 PM
  21. shadowy banger from a shadowy duplex's Avatar
    It's a very interesting article. The hate for BlackBerry is something that defies logic and points to the obvious that BlackBerry is under attack. CB is a good example.

    Posted via CB10
    " So I’m like, 'Why has this amazing device, so fluid and fun and efficient, languished?' The sheer hatred I see for the BlackBerry brand confounds me at times; it seems pathological...
    It’s just weird to me because I freakin’ love this device, and I am surrounded by the competition every day. Those phones are ********* phones compared to my Z. Seriously, they don’t look smart to me. They look ********. "

    I heard something once that resonated. "The opposite of love is not hate, the opposite of love is indifference". What I see is a collective yawn, if anything, from the majority of smartphone users when BB10 registers at all. Not, "I hate Blackberry with the heat of a thousand suns", but, "Why would I even bother to consider it? My phone (usually Android or iOS) has what I want and I like it". Any changes contemplated are usually between the two major players (what are they now, 90+%).

    Not everyone feels like this, of course. For some, their choice of phones is part of an epic battle between the forces of good and evil, with vast conspiracies holding down the One True Choice. I think it is more simple than that. Consumers just aren't that into BB10 for various legitimate reasons. Apps, ecosystem, compatibility with their friend's messaging systems etc etc.

    The author of this article is hilariously clear where he falls.
    07-23-13 04:12 PM
  22. YangFui's Avatar
    Your example app is anything but typical. It is assigned a team of developers from the dominant PC OS company with 50 billion or so in cash that is struggling with the post-PC transition and is desperate to prove they can stay relevant in the future (Google tablet marketshare vs PC marketshare trends yourself). Picks an iOS game with simple graphics. Hires the original game designers (call it partner if you like, but who do you think is paying the development costs here?), and also hires another little digital design and development agnecy (you would think that MS and the original game designers should be able to manage it) whose clients include Disney, Google and Yahoo.

    How easy was it with all this talent?
    "It was a daunting task"

    I also take exception to your rendering with your "astounding fidelity' comments as well. It (the graphics) is incredibly simplistic. Static background with a few low complexity sprites following simple patterns. I agree that the "business logic" (string physics etc) is nicely ported, but this pattern has been common at least since the "write once run anywhere" heyday of client side Java.

    Platform human interface guidelines vary widely. Cross platform apps (whether HTML, Java etc) must target lowest common denominator functionality or expend a great deal of effort to trigger custom behaviours (this effort generally still falls short and ends up chewing developer time at an amazing rate). Fifteen years or so ago, the "write once, run anywhere" Java was going to finally allow cross platrorm apps to take over, or at least survive. With the exception of some application development tools like Eclipse, Netbeans etc, it was a resounding flop for client-side applications. Applications could encapsulate the basic functionality but just looked and felt wrong (violated HIG) and generally performed poorly.

    Will cross platform app development for anything of moderate or greater complexity without inordinate expenditures of effort be possible in the future? Maybe, as I stated previously, but it is not here yet.
    "Perhaps in some great bright future there will truly be a WORE protocol. Maybe it will even be a variant of HTML5".

    OK, maybe I am overstating the difficulty. If HTML5 apps are comparatively easy to develop and deliver high quality cross platform results, there should be lots of Cut the Rope level HTML5 apps out there. And since cross platform (the whole point, right?) is apparently not a big problem, we should commonly see them on BB10 as well.

    List these "good as native" HTML5 apps for BB10 please. For bonus points, show me where else these cross platform apps run. That is the whole point of even trying with HTML5 versus native tools/languages.

    I await your examples. This should really solve one of BB10's greatest impediments to success in the market.
    Dear Banger,

    I feel I successfully refuted your claim from a previous post that HTML 5 is "far inferior at this time" than native apps. You didn't put any parameters around that statement. I gave a stunning example of a very complex app that was successfully ported to HTML 5/JavaScript/CSS3. Now you appear to discount that example because it represented a daunting task. Yet we're talking about what's possible with these browser technologies, not what's easy or cheap.

    With respect to "good as native" apps, please see my post here:
    http://forums.crackberry.com/bbry-f3...ml#post8872493

    In that post I cited several highly popular apps that are far less technically challenging than Cut The Rope and I discussed why I thought those apps would be easy (far easier than Cut The Rope) to port to a native BB10 app.

    Perhaps others here will strongly disagree with me, but I do not agree with you that the lack of native apps is the "greatest impediment" BlackBerry is facing. I would even argue that every iOS and Android app could be ported to BB10 as a native app and BlackBerry would still face many of its existing obstacles. In a nutshell, BlackBerry is competing in a world that already has two market-dominating competitors; it has a brand-perception issue (primarily in the U.S.) that I feel is being addressed but that will take time; and it is a product that many U.S.-based retailers are simply not prepared to properly represent due to poor training and perhaps a bit of apathy to boot. The matter of BlackBerry's "impediments" is a complex one--surely you understand that. For instance, it's really difficult to get people to switch brands--and that one fact presents an impediment that's probably far more significant than whether an HTML-5 app is able to run as smoothly as a native BB10 app.
    07-23-13 04:43 PM
  23. notfanboy's Avatar

    I feel I successfully refuted your claim from a previous post that HTML 5 is "far inferior at this time" than native apps.
    Then where are the HTML5 apps?

    BlackBerry made a big hulabaloo about HTML5, and yet:
    Why did BB choose to build BBM using Cascades? If HTML5 was an option then they would already have had their iOS, Android, and desktop BBM solutions. Oh, and Playbook as well.
    Why are all the BB10 apps written natively? Surely an app like Remember could easily have been written with HTML5.

    What about other developers? If HTML5 is such a good choice then:
    On the front page of CrackBerry, there are daily announcements of new apps. Are any of them written in HTML5?
    Look at the top selling apps in the various app stores. What are developers choosing to develop in? Native apps dominate.

    What about the consumers?
    You see people on CB complain about the lack of banking apps all the time. But all banks have mobile web apps. Obviously this isn't good enough for them. This illustrates the problem in a highly competitive app market. Let's say you release an HTML5 app. Your competitors will just steal your customers by building a native app. For whatever reason, consumers prefer native apps.
    07-23-13 05:13 PM
  24. lcjr's Avatar
    Well gang, it's beer-thirty here and hot enough to jump into the pool when I get home. See you all on the patio!
    cjcampbell, bungaboy and ibpluto like this.
    07-23-13 05:24 PM
  25. cjcampbell's Avatar
    Can we please get off the app debate. This all started because one contributor asked about the easiest way to make an app for his business. It does not need to be complex and for it to be written in HTML5 would be quite sufficient for his purposes. He could make a simple web launcher app to direct his clients to his "app".
    07-23-13 05:30 PM
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