View Poll Results: Did you buy shares ?

Voters
1104. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, I'm acting now !

    693 62.77%
  • No

    411 37.23%
  1. cgk's Avatar
    I eat Tapas and drank sherry in the garden - this was very nice.
    07-20-13 04:14 PM
  2. cjcampbell's Avatar
    Ribfest in Kitchener. Dollar beer to boot. It's gonna be a long night lol.
    The BBRY Café.  [Formerly: I support BBRY and I buy shares]-img_00000293_hdr.jpg

    Posted via CB10
    cgk, sidhuk, bungaboy and 6 others like this.
    07-20-13 04:20 PM
  3. fairfaxnut's Avatar
    Who's to say he's not worried? Let's face it, Prem Watsa gambled with BBRY and lost badly. I can't imagine that Prem would be anything but disgusted with the whole situation.

    From the time that he doubled down on RIMM last year, BBRY has lost 47% of its value. And this -47% actually looks good when compared to Prem's holdings before he doubled down.

    But, some might way, he hasn't lost any money, it's just a paper loss! This is nonsense because of something called opportunity cost. His $800 million could have been put to use somewhere else earning real returns. During the same time period where BBRY lost 47% (376mm loss), the NASDAQ gained 29% (232mm profit). That's a swing of $600 million!

    • He let his friendship with Heins affect his judgment and this sort of realization is very hard to swallow for hard-nosed investors.
    • He got badly outplayed by the "shorts".
    • Most posters in this thread, the majority of whom amateur investors, are doing better that Prem with regards this particular stock.
    • Novices who follow Suze Orman (or Dave Ramsey) and invests in index funds would have done much better than Prem
    • Anyone could pick up BBRY stock today and they'd instantly be doing better than Prem


    How could Prem or a Fairfax investor possibly be happy with any of this?
    You are so wrong my friend. There is no oppertunity cost when Mr. Market is trading at high multiples. That and Fairfax uses something called float for their investments. This is premiums collected vs. Paid. This investment is essentially free pending they can keep their combined ratios under 100%

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by fairfaxnut; 07-20-13 at 05:27 PM.
    07-20-13 04:54 PM
  4. Gekko's Avatar
    You are so wrong my friend. There is no oppertunity cost when Mr. Market is trading at high multiples. That and Fairfax uses something called float for their investments. This is premiums collected vs. Paid. This investment is essentially free pending they can keep their combined ratios I under 100%

    Posted via CB10
    can you or anyone please explain this? it makes no sense to me and i am relatively financially savvy.
    07-20-13 05:23 PM
  5. Gekko's Avatar
    Ribfest in Kitchener. Dollar beer to boot. It's gonna be a long night lol.
    just curious - hypothetically - how bad of a hit do you think BB's hometown would take if BB did close up shop? is there enough other business there to support the area?
    07-20-13 05:25 PM
  6. w4rrior's Avatar
    I bet a lot of very large and expensive houses go up for sale but there are tons of other jobs and tech companies around the area.
    CDM76 likes this.
    07-20-13 05:29 PM
  7. fairfaxnut's Avatar
    can you or anyone please explain this? it makes no sense to me and i am relatively financially savvy.
    Well.... Fairfax is an insurance company. Since they collect premiums for their revenues, they have usable float to invest. These premiums don't have to be paid out unless there is a claim. Combine ratio is a measure of this. Premiums vs. Claims and expenses paid.

    Posted via CB10
    07-20-13 05:30 PM
  8. Gekko's Avatar
    Well.... Fairfax is an insurance company. Since they collect premiums for their revenues, they have usable float to invest. These premiums don't have to be paid out unless there is a claim. Combine ratio is a measure of this. Premiums vs. Claims and expenses paid.

    Posted via CB10
    ok thanks now i understand what you are talking about - reserves. but there is always an opportunity cost. insurance company shareholders demand a return on those reserves - and certainly they don't want losses. reserves are not some kind of funny money that nobody cares about getting returns on. so i don't get your point. please enlighten me if i'm missing something. the CFO of an insurance company has to answer to the BOD and the shareholders on how well those reserves were invested.
    07-20-13 05:36 PM
  9. notfanboy's Avatar
    You are so wrong my friend. There is no oppertunity cost when Mr. Market is trading at high multiples. That and Fairfax uses something called float for their investments. This is premiums collected vs. Paid. This investment is essentially free pending they can keep their combined ratios under 100%
    I'm sorry but this explanation is just plain misdirection. Something that is true but nevertheless has no bearing on the topic at hand.

    Let's keep it simple. Prem has cash invested in BBRY stock. If he sells the stock while he is underwater, he will take a loss. Therefore the cash is sitting there doing nothing. If he were not underwater he would have invested in something else, for example a market index fund as novice investors are told to do, and he would have made a profit. This is opportunity cost.
    07-20-13 05:38 PM
  10. cjcampbell's Avatar
    just curious - hypothetically - how bad of a hit do you think BB's hometown would take if BB did close up shop? is there enough other business there to support the area?
    LMAO...... Are you serious?
    07-20-13 05:50 PM
  11. Gekko's Avatar
    LMAO...... Are you serious?
    yeah i'm serious - that's why i asked. i mean - what else is left? poutine and tim horton's???
    07-20-13 05:54 PM
  12. cjcampbell's Avatar
    yeah i'm serious - that's why i asked. i mean - what else is left? poutine and tim horton's???
    Well, as I believe you stated earlier, ignorance is bliss.....
    07-20-13 05:55 PM
  13. shadowy banger from a shadowy duplex's Avatar
    We could use some "water boarding" around here at times. LoL
    " Waterboarding is a form of torture in which water is poured over cloth covering the face and breathing passages of an immobilized captive, causing the individual to experience the sensation of drowning. Waterboarding can cause extreme pain, dry drowning, damage to lungs, brain damage from oxygen deprivation, other physical injuries including broken bones due to struggling against restraints, lasting psychological damage, and death. Adverse physical consequences can manifest themselves months after the event, while psychological effects can last for years.

    'The person believes they are being killed, and as such, it really amounts to a mock execution, which is illegal under international law,' says John Sifton of Human Rights Watch. It is 'bad interrogation. I mean you can get anyone to confess to anything if the torture's bad enough,' said former CIA officer Bob Baer. The CIA confirmed having used waterboarding in 2007.

    Senator John McCain noted that in World War II, the United States military hanged Japanese soldiers for waterboarding American prisoners of war. "

    Waterboarding is a monstrous act. The fact you think it is something to LOL about is disgusting, Bungaboy
    07-20-13 05:56 PM
  14. Bugmapper's Avatar
    LMAO...... Are you serious?
    dude...dont feed...
    07-20-13 05:56 PM
  15. cjcampbell's Avatar
    dude...dont feed...
    You are so right. My bad.

    Posted via CB10
    bungaboy, peter9477 and CDM76 like this.
    07-20-13 06:01 PM
  16. Gekko's Avatar
    what is the catalyst that will turn this stock around? BB10 was the Hail Mary and it has summarily been rejected by the market. BB is a one trick pony and the pony is laying on the side of the road, gasping for air. BB needs a Hail Mary to save them from the Hail Mary. but what could this possibly be?
    07-20-13 06:07 PM
  17. fairfaxnut's Avatar
    I'm sorry but this explanation is just plain misdirection. Something that is true but nevertheless has no bearing on the topic at hand.

    Let's keep it simple. Prem has cash invested in BBRY stock. If he sells the stock while he is underwater, he will take a loss. Therefore the cash is sitting there doing nothing. If he were not underwater he would have invested in something else, for example a market index fund as novice investors are told to do, and he would have made a profit. This is opportunity cost.
    I would rather have Fairfax invest in 40 cent dollars than having an index that is trading at 23x earnings. There is opportunity cost in the bond market but that is it. This is why Fairfax has averaged 20% returns over the long run..... from Graham and Dodd investing.

    Posted via CB10
    07-20-13 06:19 PM
  18. kadakn01's Avatar
    I would rather have Fairfax invest in 40 cent dollars than having an index that is trading at 23x earnings. There is opportunity cost in the bond market but that is it. This is why Fairfax has averaged 20% returns over the long run..... from Graham and Dodd investing.

    Posted via CB10
    Agreed.

    Posted via CB10
    07-20-13 06:33 PM
  19. Gekko's Avatar
    I would rather have Fairfax invest in 40 cent dollars than having an index that is trading at 23x earnings. There is opportunity cost in the bond market but that is it. This is why Fairfax has averaged 20% returns over the long run..... from Graham and Dodd investing.

    Posted via CB10
    1. 40 cent dollars? how are you calculating this?
    2. what about diversification?

    you sound like you have a little tiny bit of knowledge and that is a very dangerous thing. you know enough to be dangerous!
    07-20-13 06:35 PM
  20. kadakn01's Avatar
    1. 40 cent dollars? how are you calculating this?
    2. what about diversification?

    you sound like you have a little tiny bit of knowledge and that is a very dangerous thing. you know enough to be dangerous!
    Have you ever read the annual reports of fairfax? Why not start there? You may learn something.

    Posted via CB10
    cjcampbell likes this.
    07-20-13 07:26 PM
  21. kfh227's Avatar
    can you or anyone please explain this? it makes no sense to me and i am relatively financially savvy.
    This is how Berkshire works also.

    On day one, they get $1000 from customers. Over the next 365 days, they give $900 back to customers for claims filed. So, they have "float" to use during those 365 days. They can take half of the premiums collected ($500) and invest them in low risk bonds (for example) for 6 months and turn that $500 into $520. And with this money, they take some of it and invest long term into stocks ... Like BBRY.

    That's what fairfaxnut is referring to.
    cjcampbell likes this.
    07-20-13 07:27 PM
  22. kfh227's Avatar
    " Waterboarding ...
    And that reminds me. I'm at home and on my laptop (not using CB10 app) .... user ignored.
    07-20-13 07:30 PM
  23. Gekko's Avatar
    This is how Berkshire works also.

    On day one, they get $1000 from customers. Over the next 365 days, they give $900 back to customers for claims filed. So, they have "float" to use during those 365 days. They can take half of the premiums collected ($500) and invest them in low risk bonds (for example) for 6 months and turn that $500 into $520. And with this money, they take some of it and invest long term into stocks ... Like BBRY.

    That's what fairfaxnut is referring to.
    yes i already responded that i finally realized what he was talking about - reserves - i'm very familiar with this concept. it was his initial explanation that confused me.
    07-20-13 07:33 PM
  24. Gekko's Avatar
    Have you ever read the annual reports of fairfax? Why not start there? You may learn something.

    Posted via CB10
    my questions have nothing to do with what's in their annual report. i'm just questioning some of the bizarre assertions i'm reading here that lead me to believe that someone doesn't know what they're talking about but maybe thinks they do and wants to sound like they do. it's kind of like the guy that wants to sound smart about a particular topic so he throws around and parrots a bunch of terms and phrases and principles on the subject - but he's not entirely sure what they all mean or how they work. i'm sure he's not a bad guy and isn't doing it maliciously - but i can usually tell when someone doesn't really know what they're talking about. i was asking the questions just in case i might be wrong or in case i'm missing something.
    07-20-13 07:43 PM
  25. BlackistheBerry's Avatar
    So.... I am led to believe that some people are really missing something when they log in to CB and start posting on threads without reading the titles of the threads.

    Or am I the one who is missing something?
    07-20-13 07:52 PM
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