[dusdal]

Any of you fine folks know if BES cloud is a differentiator over Good, Mobile Iron, etc?

Seems like a nice SaaS solution for the small shops and maybe even individuals?



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[morganplus8]

This has got nothing to do with Microsoft and Windows Phone. Surely its Apple and Google's most excellent products which have strangled and continue to strangle BB. MS has no blood on its hands in this case.

Not so, everything (negative) in your post describes MSFT/NOK. There was no chance in heck of MSFT and NOK selling a phone unless they discounted it into the ground from day one and dumped them on the public. That marriage resulted in NOK losing a fortune on its phone line and now MSFT will run with it and loose billions until they realize what a failure all things MSFT are. You have been kind to MSFT, stating that it will only see so many lost quarters, think years, think many years of losing money by selling phones that no one wants at a profit to MSFT. Fact is, I still can't find a single WP8 stinker in the wild yet BlackBerry holds 30% of the Canadian market. Let's try something, suppose those stinker phones of MSFT were sold at a profit, could they sell one of them to somebody other than you? I didn't think so.

The good news for NOK is that it was able to play the game and dump their garbage on MSFT's door step. Their stock has doubled since this laughable deal went through.

[Gesig Boek]

Not so, everything (negative) in your post describes MSFT/NOK. .

Lets see if that is true:

Arnt all these stories about Microsoft's potential just another way to hype the stock, like all the TA the past year which all suggested the stock could rise or fall, but which in the end always fell?

The "TA" for Microsoft the company is all negative, and its pretty unlikely to even manage its primary mission, which is make a profit the next quarter, hence the 10 year low.

Surely any sensible person would predict further losses, till some shell company scoops up the brand name for cheap Android handsets?

First, people arnt really telling any stories about the potential of Microsoft. Everyone is in a wait and see position, due to intense competition. Secondly Microsoft has been growing profits consistently, and will almost certainly make a profit in Q4.

Lastly, at least in the short term no-one expects losses or the MS brand to be sold for scraps.

So I think you should stop diverting from the issue, which is that while we can all dream of being arm chair CEOs with the real rescue plan, the sensible prediction is for things to get rapidly worse.

[morganplus8]

Lets see if that is true:



First, people arnt really telling any stories about the potential of Microsoft. Everyone is in a wait and see position, due to intense competition. Secondly Microsoft has been growing profits consistently, and will almost certainly make a profit in Q4.

Lastly, at least in the short term no-one expects losses or the MS brand to be sold for scraps.

So I think you should stop diverting from the issue, which is that while we can all dream of being arm chair CEOs with the real rescue plan, the sensible prediction is for things to get rapidly worse.

You have just confirmed that everything I said was true. Things will always be "worse" for MSFT, they produce garbage. Their phone will never turn a profit, at least not during your lifetime. The MS purchase was for scrap, do you think MS will be able to sell former NOK products for any money at all? No one would buy their assets. MS is not making any money on phones, and no one in this world, aside from yourself, think they will ever make a profit in mobile.

There is no competition for garbage, MS will continue to sell NOK phones until someone steps in there and decides its enough throwing money down the drain. MS has no way in the world of making WP8 profitable. None. You need to step back into reality.

[Gesig Boek]

There is no competition for garbage, MS will continue to sell NOK phones until someone steps in there and decides its enough throwing money down the drain. MS has no way in the world of making WP8 profitable. None. You need to step back into reality.

Given that Nokia's phone division was within a $120 million of a profit on 64 million phones sold that seems an unreasonable position. If they make $2 per year on service revenue (apps, music, ads) from those devices then they are already ahead, not to mention Nokia will not have to pay MS a license fee anymore, which will automatically reduce their costs.

But why are we talking about MS. They are not BB's main direct competitors.

[morganplus8]

Given that Nokia's phone division was within a $120 million of a profit on 64 million phones sold that seems an unreasonable position. If they make $2 per year on service revenue (apps, music, ads) from those devices then they are already ahead, not to mention Nokia will not have to pay MS a license fee anymore, which will automatically reduce their costs.

But why are we talking about MS. They are not BB's main direct competitors.

And again, you support the thesis that MS is willing to take a loss forever. No, NOK wasn't within $ 120 million of turning a profit in mobile, you are so wrong about that. They are double the price on the stock because they unloaded the the only junk that was holding them back. MS is all about junk, they bought losing assets knowing those assets would never make it in the real world. NOK can now turn a profit minus the dead weight of WP8 phones. BB has so much more going for it than WP8 will/would have going forward, there is no comparison.

Why do you back junk so much? Sure, many would line up for 5 minutes to get a free WP8 phone, but they would then gut it and try to load something that resembles an OS on it, if it didn't work, it hits the dumpter.

[Gesig Boek]

And again, you support the thesis that MS is willing to take a loss forever. No, NOK wasn't within $ 120 million of turning a profit in mobile, you are so wrong about that.

Not true and not true.

Nokia has just announced its Q3 2013 financial results, revealing an operating profit of €118 million ($162 million) from €5.66 billion ($7.8 billion) revenue. That's up massively year over year, but nonetheless represents another quarter of middling results. The report is the first since Microsoft agreed to purchase Nokia's phone business, and that division — Devices and Services — performed as expected, posting a small loss of €86 million ($118 million).
As a Wall Street Journal report suggested, Nokia's Lumia line performed stronger than ever before. The company set a record of 8.8 million Lumia sales for the quarter, well up from 7.4 million last quarter and massively up from 2.9 million in Q3 2012. North American sales were stronger than expected at 1.4 million. Sales of non-Lumia devices were down year over year, coming in at 55.8 million versus last quarter's 53.7 million and last year's 76.6 million.

Nokia's Q3 2013: $162 million profit from $7.79 billion revenue | The Verge

Since 2005, the last time Microsoft had a positive income result for its Online group, it has lost $11.98 billion. If you include the $6.2 billion right down for aQuantive, the total loss for the Online group since 2005 is a whopping $18.2 billion.

CHART OF THE DAY: Microsoft Has Now Burned $18 Billion Online - Business Insider

Can you think of anything more suicidal than giving up on Online Services? Giving up on phones.

[notfanboy]

They are clearly talking about MSFT, what other product has achieved such mediocrity over the past 30 years? MSFT produces garbage, I can't think of a single product they have produced that does work, doesn't invite viruses all day and has more holes and needs more updates than Windows products. Shows you that such a boring company can exist for many years as long as it has its fair share of fanboys. Now, go out into the world and try to find a human with WP8!!! Good luck with that.

morgan's posts reminds me so much of mrfreetruth's anti-Microsoft rants.

Like I have been saying I have yet to see ONE WP NOT ONE .....NOT EVEN A SINGLE ONE WP8...NOT ONE. NOT EVEN ONE. Looking at NOK Earnings Release one can understand. They sold very little in NA.

I called it. all this time the microsoft paid employees coming here telling us WP8 is being sold like crazy//....LOL WP is finsihed. I have yet to see ONE WP......NOT ONE ....NOT EVEN ONE

Ahh, memories.

[morganplus8]

Can you think of anything more suicidal than giving up on phones.

We have been trying to tell you this for over a year, BB can't give up their phone business. Now you get it!!

MS needed the cash flow so they bought NOK assets, they don't need profits so thats okay; good business model. Assuring they lose money is a good thing in the world of MS.

Look, we all know you first came to this board to drum up support for "I own shares, I support BBRY" by telling us all about how "BlackBerry is profitable in Q4 2012 and so they will always make money, forever". That was then, this is now and poor NOK doesn't have to take any more losses on handsets, good on them too.

[JLagoon]

Hi Morgan:

Do you think, there is any upside opportunity for the SP at all, before December ER? I don't think, BBMx video and call will make the market value BBRY differently. It did not even respond positively with BBMx launch, which did get a good response from consumers. Shorts are not giving up, and seem to be comfortable, and confident to see another bad ER in December. SP has gone below cash value. Mike L. does not seem to be doing anything with what Watsa has done. Are we not going to see any positive movement, until there is a profitable ER?

Thank you.

[sentimentGX4]

The Microsoft hate in this thread is eyeball rolling. 'Pot calling the kettle black' would be a generous analogy.

Blackberry could really use some "mediocrity" lessons from Microsoft.

[notfanboy]

The Microsoft hate in this thread is eyeball rolling. 'Pot calling the kettle black' would be a generous analogy.

Blackberry could really use some "mediocrity" lessons from Microsoft.

When you see that much hate for a company on this site, when a company is perceived as a failure compared to BlackBerry, this has proven to be good signal that the company is doing something right. Look at a number of examples in what I'm calling the CrackBerry Villain Index Fund:

How are the CrackBerry "villains" doing? - BlackBerry Forums at CrackBerry.com

Same holds true for MSFT: it is up 38% in the past 12 months, compared to BBRY which is down 34% in the same time period.

[peter9477]

The Microsoft hate in this thread is eyeball rolling.

Let me guess: you're new at the Internet? Note the thread title, by the way, and the focus of the site it's on.

As for me, I roll my eyes at anyone who expresses surprise, dismay, shock, or afflictions involving unstable eyes resulting from negative comments about any BB competitor here.

[Corbu]

Big props to morganplus8 for his insight, his observations and what he contributes to this thread.

[fin2007]

\

[fin2007]

Big props to morganplus8 for his insight, his observations and what he contributes to ths thread.

LOL, and lose more money.

I could not believe there are still people in the world still believing him, I would guess you were just kidding. LOL.

[JonCBK]

Wow that is some anti Microsoft ranting there. I'm also very pessimistic about their chances. I've never seen anyone use their new smartphones that I can remember. But they look nice and they have some funny ads.
It is probably a loss for them. But Microsoft is in desperate straights. They have to know that we are probably five years out from them no longer being able to sell word or office to anyone except maybe the largest corporations and business guys using excel. The free versions of those product are going to be too good by then for anyone to pay for them. Same thing may happen in that time for their OS. They need new categories of products.

[danprown]

the concern about MSFT's wellbeing on this thread is like captain Smith worrying about the damaged Olympus [Titanic's sister ship] while he was sinking with the Titanic... c'mon.

there are bigger issues at hand. namely, what will happen at the coming ER.

[slipstream89]

We wont see any significant upside to the SP until a viable business plan is presented to investors by the new CEO. Lack of investor confidence is what is driving this down, I hope John Chen is crunching to get a good business strategy out to calm the market. He knows time is not a luxury

[Superfly_FR]

Just ran into this article

BlackBerry in talks with Indian telecos for data bundling to push phone sales - The Economic Times

BlackBerry though has changed focus. BlackBerry in India now has equal sales from its enterprise and small office customers as handset sales to retail customers, he said. "Enterprise and professionals represent 30% of our client base generating 50% of our revenue.

Where are the high margins ?
Just.focus.where.the.money.is.

[Superfly_FR]

We wont see any significant upside to the SP until a viable business plan is presented to investors by the new CEO. Lack of investor confidence is what is driving this down, I hope John Chen is crunching to get a good business strategy out to calm the market. He knows time is not a luxury

Until they provide short and mid term guidance one can check against facts, the SP is an unleashed hot air baloon. Chen must provide guidance; I'll not repeat again what I wrote (http://seekingalpha.com/instablog/32...ry-my-snapshot) but while I believe I understand why they stopped releasing guidance previously, he has to do so now, at least on a quarter to quarter basis.

[Superfly_FR]

The Microsoft hate in this thread is eyeball rolling. 'Pot calling the kettle black' would be a generous analogy.
Blackberry could really use some "mediocrity" lessons from Microsoft.

Since totaly OT in my opinion, I've not commented much about it. So let me clarify.

I use Windows products for about 2 decades on my computers (lap,desk,servers) and - even in Vista's times - never got in major troubles because of that. Maybe because I knew (as for aapl products) that software updates imply hardware update and stopped building my computers in the late 90s.

On the smartphones front, if ever (very unlikely !) I should change my platform of choice, there's 90% chances I'll choose WP. Oh, damm, you got me. I hate fight against the "get-your-first-shoot-free" dealer and the "show-me-your-dirty-secrets" hook.

[greggebhardt]

Hack on Microsoft all you want but they are a solid number three while Blackberry's dreams are dead. Windows phones and their tablets are alive and well, like it or not. Not much changed here as there are still many who feel that bashing one's competition will help your plight.

Blackberry wishes they were competition to MS.

[cgk]

I like this idea of trying to paint MS as some equal to BBRY, especially in Enterprise where many of MS's businesses are showing double-digit growth and their little known enterprise communications client shows decent growth and is already a billion dollar business.

In regards to mobile, while they are a long third behind Android and iOS, they have BBRY solidly beat.

[plasmid_boy]

the concern about MSFT's wellbeing on this thread is like captain Smith worrying about the damaged Olympus [Titanic's sister ship] while he was sinking with the Titanic... c'mon.

there are bigger issues at hand. namely, what will happen at the coming ER.

You would be correct only if your assumptions are true, but I believe they are not.

I haven't seen any posts expressing concerns for the well-being of Microsoft Inc as a company or MSFT as a stock.

We were arguing that their products suck. With the exception of their game console the Xbox which I have had no experience with and therefore can't comment about it.

For example :
1. MS Office, try Apple's iWork.
2. MS Windows OS, try OSX or any other OSes.
3. MS Bing, try Google.
4. MS servers, try Linux servers.
5. MS Windows phone, try any other phone.
6. MS surface tablets, they wrote down $1 billion worth of tablets?

One thing that I admire about Microsoft is their ability to sell crap to people.

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