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View Poll Results: Did you buy shares ?
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- Pretty dead in here these last few weeks, kind gives me a eerie feeling. Honestly, if this thing could get back to 10 in the next year I'm cutting my loses and going elsewhere. I don't know what else to do anymore11-15-13 04:55 PMLike 0
- https://businessincanada.com/2013/11...in-blackberry/
where would the share price be without Prem buying all that? and he said he was not going to buy more BB shares?11-15-13 05:22 PMLike 0 - 11-15-13 05:25 PMLike 2
- well Prem does not seem to be too anxious about holding BB shares and he has the inside track, so why worry now? if you bought for a quick flip on the buyout that obviously didn't happen, but we have known that for some time already. if you bought for the long haul, don't sweat the small stuff, like Prem. just set it and forget it....because it is going to take some time to turn this thing around11-15-13 05:28 PMLike 2
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If Fairfax exercises the option to invest an additional $250 million, within sixty days, they will have 102 million shares and will then control 17.7% of the shares. My guess is that Fairfax will put in the additional $250 million.
Rule 13d-3(d)(1) also provides that any securities not outstanding which are subject to such options or conversion privileges shall be deemed to be outstanding for the purpose of computing the percentage of outstanding securities of the class owned by such person but shall not be deemed to be outstanding for the purpose of computing the percentage of the class by any other person. Therefore, the percentage of outstanding securities has been calculated based on 576,070,940 Shares of BlackBerry, comprised of 526,070,940 Shares of BlackBerry outstanding as of October 24, 2013, as reported in the Subscription Agreement, and assuming: (i) the conversion of the Debentures already acquired by Fairfax pursuant to the Subscription Agreement into 25,000,000 Shares; (ii) the conversion of the full amount of the Additional Debentures into 25,000,000 Shares; and (iii) no other Debentures being converted.11-15-13 08:27 PMLike 5 - Just installed the latest leaked OS to my backup Z10 and it works perfectly. Lots of new features. Android apps download so easily now and work as they are supposed to! I am really liking what BlackBerry is putting out now. The updates are fantastic. Long live BlackBerry!!!!
Posted from my gorgeous Z3011-15-13 09:24 PMLike 6 - Don't know if it was already posted - but IBM recently acquired Fiberlink Communications, company that specializes in MDM with their MaaS360 product (similar to BES).
They were probably looking at Blackberry as well.
IBM News room - 2013-11-13 IBM to Acquire Fiberlink Communications, Transforming the Mobile Management and Security Market - United States11-15-13 09:43 PMLike 3 - Currently Fairfax does not and it is sitting on slightly less than 14% of the shares.
If Fairfax exercises the option to invest an additional $250 million, within sixty days, they will have 102 million shares and will then control 17.7% of the shares. My guess is that Fairfax will put in the additional $250 million.
Until and unless they convert the debenture into shares, which I really don't think they've done yet, and am not sure they even can right away, the shares they have are unrelated to it.
Someone please correct me if I'm totally wrong on that.
[Edit: thanks to those below who corrected me on this. I'm totally wrong. :-)]Last edited by peter9477; 11-16-13 at 07:57 AM.
11-15-13 09:45 PMLike 5 - I think you're misinterpreting. The debenture doesn't give them any shares right now, and although I definitely haven't dug into that SEC filing myself, I had the distinct impression this was an indication that they had, in fact, actually purchased those additional shares on the market.
Until and unless they convert the debenture into shares, which I really don't think they've done yet, and am not sure they even can right away, the shares they have are unrelated to it.
Someone please correct me if I'm totally wrong on that.
So the actual current holding is still the 52M shares from before. In this filing it is shown as 102M to include all possible conversion of debt (including debt they haven't actually bought yet)
However, Rule 13d-3(d)(1) promulgated under the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, as amended (the �Exchange Act�), provides that a person shall be deemed to be the beneficial owner of a security if that person has the right to acquire beneficial ownership of such security within sixty days, including any right to acquire through the exercise of any option or through the conversion of a security. Therefore, in accordance with Rule 13d-3(d)(1), the Shares of BlackBerry underlying both the Debentures issued to Fairfax and the Shares of BlackBerry underlying the Additional Debentures have been included in the number of shares beneficially owned by the Reporting Persons, where applicable.
(2)Rule 13d-3(d)(1) also provides that any securities not outstanding which are subject to such options or conversion privileges shall be deemed to be outstanding for the purpose of computing the percentage of outstanding securities of the class owned by such person but shall not be deemed to be outstanding for the purpose of computing the percentage of the class by any other person. Therefore, the percentage of outstanding securities has been calculated based on 576,070,940 Shares of BlackBerry, comprised of 526,070,940 Shares of BlackBerry outstanding as of October 24, 2013, as reported in the Subscription Agreement, and assuming: (i) the conversion of the Debentures already acquired by Fairfax pursuant to the Subscription Agreement into 25,000,000 Shares; (ii) the conversion of the full amount of the Additional Debentures into 25,000,000 Shares; and (iii) no other Debentures being converted.11-15-13 10:14 PMLike 8 - https://businessincanada.com/2013/11...in-blackberry/
where would the share price be without Prem buying all that? and he said he was not going to buy more BB shares?silversun10 likes this.11-15-13 10:43 PMLike 1 - I think you're misinterpreting. The debenture doesn't give them any shares right now, and although I definitely haven't dug into that SEC filing myself, I had the distinct impression this was an indication that they had, in fact, actually purchased those additional shares on the market.
Until and unless they convert the debenture into shares, which I really don't think they've done yet, and am not sure they even can right away, the shares they have are unrelated to it.
Someone please correct me if I'm totally wrong on that.peter9477 likes this.11-15-13 10:44 PMLike 1 - Ok.. I haven't read either, (just got home and have had a "few" beers so forgive me) but how can one interpret a raise in ownership percentage based on the debentures without adding those shares to the float, and, the additional shares from the others that have invested in the offering? These essentially, and forgive me if I'm wrong, are warrants. If the price goes above $10, and they exercise their right to convert, the shares get diluted and the ownership percentage doesn't change. ergo... doesn't that mean that the ownership raise is due to purchased shares on the open market?
Last edited by cjcampbell; 11-16-13 at 01:16 AM.
sidhuk and anon(4086547) like this.11-16-13 12:55 AMLike 2 - Ok.. I haven't read either, (just got home and have had a "few" beers so forgive me) but how can one interpret a raise in ownership percentage based on the debentures without adding those shares to the float, and, the additional shares from the others that have invested in the offering? These essentially, and forgive me if I'm wrong, are warrants. If the price goes above $10, and they exercise their right to convert, the shares get diluted and the ownership percentage doesn't change. ergo... doesn't that mean that the ownership raise is due to purchased shares on the open market?
Theoretically they don't have to wait until it hits 10+ to convert. They can exercise at any time which is why the SEC counts them now. It almost always won't make economic sense to exercise their rights under 10+, but they could.11-16-13 05:26 AMLike 6 -
This is assuming that FFH exercises the option to purchase additional $250M debentures along with the conversion of the full $500M amount into 50M shares at $10.11-16-13 07:43 AMLike 0 - It is also worth noting that as of 9/30/2013, most of the top institutional holders increased their positions.
BlackBerry Limited (BBRY) Institutional Ownership & Holdings - NASDAQ.com
In particular,
Bank of America: +28%
Morgan Stanley: +36%
Bank of Montreal: +32%
Goldman Sachs: +33%
I wonder why these big boys pour more money into a supposedly dying company...Last edited by rim4ever; 11-16-13 at 08:21 AM.
11-16-13 08:05 AMLike 9 -
Played Candy Crush, Instagram, Netflix, etc. , to understand why they are must-have on a phone. Not my thing.
I side loaded the apps that use already, so this APK direct installation doesn't matter much to me, but it is very convenient compare to side loading.
I'm am writing this on the Android CB app. It is better than the CB10 version.
Still exploring for new stuff. Will report back if find something interesting.
Sent from my Z10 using Android CB Forums mobile app11-16-13 08:41 AMLike 5 - Good morning _dimi_!!!
We are talking about the recently filed 13D .............. Prem hasn't purchased any additional shares during the past 60 days, he would have had to file for them if he did ( a 13D within 10 days of purchase). What he did was act as the lead underwriter for the bond issue which comprises of 100,000,000 shares of potential dilution to shareholders, deemed to be 526 MM shares outstanding at the time of this issue. He took up 25 MM shares through his insurance companies, as you can see, there is roughly 82 MM shares spread amongst them all listed in that document.
In aggregate, he has control over his 52 MM, plus the 25 MM confirmed by his subs, plus the balance of the over subscribed shares of the $ 250 MM Bond that can still be taken up here. Because he is the lead underwriter, he is assigned those additional shares, not because he will be the only one to invest the additional $ 250 MM, but because there are no other names available to assign the potential purchase to, so it goes to the underwriter. In fact, those additional 25 MM shares will likely get prorated into all of the existing players who took up the first allotment. So Prem might end up with 25% of the additional 25 MM shares. Hope this is clear?
If you add up the shares truly controlled by Prem you get his 52 MM plus the 25 MM with a clear statement at the bottom of the document that none of the Directors of his subs have purchased shares on their own, expect one dude who purchased 9,900 shares in the past 60 days. When and if Prem had gone over the 10% ownership threshold, he would have had to report that change in ownership within 10 days of the purchase. That's a milestone that he would have had to report (re: 10% or more ownership and the 2% rule). It's a bit confusing but we'll know more when the 30-day period is up and they report whether the additional $ 250 MM of bonds gets picked up. Hope this helps!11-16-13 09:53 AMLike 11 - It is also worth noting that as of 9/30/2013, most of the top institutional holders increased their positions.
BlackBerry Limited (BBRY) Institutional Ownership & Holdings - NASDAQ.com
In particular,
Bank of America: +28%
Morgan Stanley: +36%
Bank of Montreal: +32%
Goldman Sachs: +33%
I wonder why these big boys pour more money into a supposedly dying company...
But, to be fair, there is also another list who have reduced their holdings. That list includes Invesco, Citi, and Deutsche Bank.
Sent from my iPhone 5S using TapatalkShanerredflag likes this.11-16-13 10:08 AMLike 1 -
... Reading the latest news and headlines Pfizer Ditching BlackBerry, [c]iting Its volatile State - Bloomberg [News cite]. The BBM Honeymoon Ends (but a New Phone Is on Sale) - Canada Real Time - WSJ[/url]), I am getting irritated by the fact that BBRY can't seem to do anything right or get any credit for such (e.g. the new OS is not even a year old and, quite frankly, it has evolved considerably). BBRY is getting kicked around by the media, the markets, everyone...
We have been through the Strategic Review. ... I... am anxious and impatient for the new CEO to set a new vision for BBRY and start being both proactive ... and hitting back to counter the negative perception that seems to be associated ...[with] BBRY. ... Let's ... do whatever is required for BBRY to stop being bullied around ... Granted, BBRY has its large share of the blame: it's been through some self-inflicted turmoil, it can't seem to market anything (I have the uncomfortable feeling that it may well [further] fumble the ball [with its remaining assets].
The new CEO says he is committed to "Reclaiming our Success". ... a nice starting point could be getting to determine precisely what he means by: "We have begun moving the company to embrace a multi-platform, BYOD world by adopting a new mobility management platform and a new device strategy".
... Sorry for the rant, guys.... I think I'm ready for a drink. Cheers!
Has socialism taken over the world? BB has been "bullied" .... Yet, "Granted, BBRY has its large share of the blame: it's been through some self-inflicted turmoil." Come on, some backbone here. Stick to your point (or what I think is your point) and avoid the excuses ... or go back to your govt (type) job and a beer. This is capitalism not the playground, and with the big boys. . BB had a last shot, made only a half-hearted effort, leaving room for escape for some if their effort failed and now its a matter of negotiating a settlement (or rather that has been the intention since no later than July 1). This thread (and BB shares) is only fodder for the run-off kings and vultures picking from the bones--admittedly also a legitimate part of the capitalism model. Don't kid yourself, that's also the only goal now for Prem: It was a strategic review for liquidation that was, and still is, occurring. Let's see if Chen defies history and develops (overnight) some skills and excites us on a new "yellow brick road"!?!
^^^ Yes^^^. This is the feeling for "[a lot]", (thanks) of folks...uncertainty breeds bad press...CHEN's first order of business better be cleaning this aspect up....fast. We know the OS is great, we know it's world class....CHEN's job is to convince the markets, the rest will look after itself.
Chen's job is too mold a product (probably OS10) into matching a "material" target market (or vice versa) enough to get the share price coupled with a significant share volume to unload this overeating and underperforming baby!! BUT, does he indeed try to specialize and hold onto the Govt and Corp clients (mostly w/o OS10 prospect) or try to integrate more with Android and capture a registered % of the total market. BB is spread too thin to pursue both?!? [Note: BTW, this is the absolute classic structure and final decision by many, many prior tech companies--much larger than BB--that faded in their last decade before disappearance.]
Blue Ridge Capital Hedge Fund buys BB. John Griffin initiated holdings in BlackBerry Ltd. His purchase prices were between $7.95 and $11.53, with an estimated average price of $9.73. The impact to his portfolio due to this purchase was 0.22%. His holdings were 2,345,000 shares as of 09/30/2013." Nice to see a big boy putting money into BB without getting a sweetheart deal.
I'm not sure how PCs are relevant? It's not really a point about specific tech, it's a point that no sensible business starts from a place of saying "we are going to launch a product that we then will write down in six months" - they might have contingency plan for when that happens, they might have done scenario plans for the cost if and when it occurs, they have know it's a risk and might likely happen but no business I have ever heard of start with that as the deliberate plan.
"Are we going below 52 week lows on friday?" This sure won't help: "BlackBerry downgraded to Underperform from Neutral at Macquarie. Macquarie believes a break-up of BlackBerry is unlikely and reduced subscriber estimates. Price target lowered to $5.50 from $7." Man, I am so tired of BBRY in the role of the doormat.
If you participate in this BB forum (not simply this thread), read more deeply into past posts: Granted, it's a bit like panning for gold but there are many great posts relative to the true fundamentals of BB. Lesson Two: BB has NO FREE CASH FLOW and hasn't (from OS10 or likely continuing Ops) for some time--a sure sign of failure in all but a start-up. As an earlier poster rightly described, BB jumped in but only in waste deep water. BB had to risk submersion in early 2011 (likely before) to have any chance (however small) to survive. Yes, BB did seem to covet its cash holdings over investing and making a legitimate stab at re-capturing, for example, 5% of the marketplace. But this is a silly strategy aimed only at mgmt. bonuses and not part of successful strategic planning. BB OS10 today, of course, stands at 0% (rounded) of the current new phone marketplace for smart phones with maybe 3% if we are to splice in the legacy runoff sales.
Lesson Three: If you can't find more than one consumer product sale (from industry sales of 1-1.5B per annum) in your own backyard, well what more be said!!! There are no BB OS10 phones to be found in consumer's hands--especially in material markets outside of Canada. This was true in May, August, and even today despite near give-aways for OS-10 products. Unfortunately, unless a BB insider, prior to March 2013 very few knew how little effort (or incompetence) that BB was placing in OS10: We only read and trusted that the old boys still had something in the tank. What we received in early 2013 was a good mock-up of a proto-typical OS for the masses .... but masses of circa 2010 not for 2013/14. What we have today is a good OS for mid- 2011 and the probability of finding two BB OS10's held by complete strangers in the same restaurant as being similar to winning a NY card lottery game.
If one is still foolish enough to be holding BB for anything but a chance for extra drinking money (and that's okay as long as recognized for what it is), they may well deserve to be treated like a doormat. Sorry for the repetition, these exact words were said after release of BB June financials and hinted at long before. (Foregoing, of course, aside from institutional favors and/or manipulations.)
The same brain surgeon also bought 500,000 shares of Tesla at an average cost of $193.77. 52 week high and all time high $194.50. Currently down 35% on that one too. I guess his skills in catching falling knives and capturing rising stars are about equal. EDIT: In other news, ... [many, many stocks are hitting all time highs while BB is swimming against the tide even to post losses in a stock market again gone crazy].
In sum, I've never seen so much mental masturbation in a social thread in my life (okay, not quite true). BB has had no focus on a future target market for 3, maybe 5, years. BB OS10 is still riddled with errors--even considering 10.2 leaks--unacceptable to the masses or for a business man needing a dependable tool. And, hardly needing repeating, the lack of Apps alone is enough to keep growth of BB below 1% of the marketplace. .... For you youngsters, and some of you oldsters, simply take any number of other tech companies (BTW, no need to limit to tech) and overlay the decisions and share price movements, a perfect match. [Note: This is taken from an old post going back to spring 2013. This baby is going down, it's just a matter how much fight (i.e., blips) is left in the share price.]
.... But, to swim away from the penny-stock traders and join with other CB forum topics/threads, I do hope among all its other "distractions" that BB, somehow, simply cleans up OS10 so that my current phones are as reliable in 2014 business as the BB Bolds and Curves of the past were to the pre-2010 climate.Last edited by M65c02; 11-17-13 at 03:15 AM.
JLagoon and anon(4086547) like this.11-16-13 10:57 AMLike 2 - Now that is a crazy investment. I actually own a few myself, which I bought just so I could learn how to use the system and see how it worked. So sketchy. But as of right now I could sell them at more than triple what I paid for them! (Assuming my exchange would actually cash me out, something which I consider a non-trivial risk.) Note I fully expect when they crash that they will crash HARD and be worthless. So anyone who looks into this should be prepared for that to be something that might happen. And if it does it could happen in a matter of a few days, if not just a few hours.morganplus8 likes this.11-16-13 11:23 AMLike 1
- M65 that is a pretty epic post.
One question for you. How does BBRY maintain the cash pile (which has been fairly static for the last year) without any free cash flow? And these investments that have come in plus the tax refund that is coming they are cash flow. BBRY certainly has the cash to make moves and do something. I don't really know what that will be though. I like my Q10. (Side note, I was having trouble with an App so I decided I'd try a reboot the other day. It then occurred to me that I'd never had a crash causing a reboot during the three months I've had the thing. That is pretty neat.) Anyway, I like my Q10, but the OS is not attractive and I can't see anyone going with it as their exclusive phone. There just aren't enough Apps. I carry two phones and with shared data plans it really isn't too expensive. Also I don't have to worry about battery life. The Q10 is strong in that department (though somewhat inconsistent based on which Apps are left running) and made more so since a lot of the more intensive App activity ends up happening on my iPhone 5. But can duel phone users possibly be a large enough market? No chance would be my guess.fedakd likes this.11-16-13 11:44 AMLike 1 - A fair discussion on the two.
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By S&R Staff on November 16, 201311-16-13 02:18 PMLike 0
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