[leafs123]

BlackBerry up more than 3% in PM. What gives?

Posted via CB10

They have been up since markets opened and before the Nokia news hit the wire. Not sure.

Posted via CB10

[cjcampbell]

They have been up since markets opened and before the Nokia news hit the wire. Not sure.

Posted via CB10

Nokia news was out last night.

[bigbbrybeliever]

BlackBerry up more than 3% in PM. What gives?

Posted via CB10

At current SP, the market has valued BBRY's handset unit at 0 or negative. This morning, people suddenly learned that MSFT will pay $7 billion for the handset unit of NOK. So if NOK's handset unit worth $7 billion, then BBRY's handset unit shall worth in the same range, which means adding additional $7 billion to the valuation.

[leafs123]

Palm acquired by HP, Motorola by Google and Nokia by Microsoft. BlackBerry is the only originator left. What happens?

Posted via CB10

[cgk]

Palm acquired by HP, Motorola by Google and Nokia by Microsoft. BlackBerry is the only originator left. What happens?

Posted via CB10

Well... Horace Dediu has a theory (which as far as I'm aware hasn't been wrong so far) that once you make a quarterly loss in mobile, you are gobbled up soon rather than later...

[Bugmapper]

Palm acquired by HP, Motorola by Google and Nokia by Microsoft. BlackBerry is the only originator left. What happens?

Posted via CB10

BlackBerry continues on, making huge profits, then buys them all.

Posted via CB10 on a Z10 root device!

[emtunc]

Just curious - why has Nokia SP gone up about 1.8$ but Microsoft's has gone down by a similar amount - is it because MSFT share holders are selling and buying Nokia instead?

[cgk]

At current SP, the market has valued BBRY's handset unit at 0 or negative. This morning, people suddenly learned that MSFT will pay $7 billion for the handset unit of NOK. So if NOK's handset unit worth $7 billion, then BBRY's handset unit shall worth in the same range, which means adding additional $7 billion to the valuation.

Remember $1.6 billion is for patents licensing and the rest contains patents acquisition - so the hardware was maybe $3 billion $4 billion?

[BlackistheBerry]

So....since the doom-and-gloom are back in action again, I will reiterate my humble request....
Can someone please post some screen shots of the short trades of BBRY that they have executed after the MSFT news?

Thanks in advance!

[BlackistheBerry]

Remember $1.6 billion is for patents licensing and the rest contains patents acquisition - so the hardware was maybe $3 billion $4 billion?

........which, if my math serves me right, is more than zero that everyone has been pegging it at?

[Shanerredflag]

Our local business news is reporting 5B hand set and 2.2B licensing of patents for specific time periods. Also saying Asha included, all other hand sets not....see what shakes out.

Posted via CB10

[w4rrior]

Am I crazy or did I read Nokia has 56,000 employees? Why do they have 5x more than BlackBerry?

[silversun10]

Msft is buying nokia, so does it matter the details of the patents. Whether Msft owns them direct or via nokia? Or is there still some piece of nokia remaining on its own?

[leafs123]

Our local business news is reporting 5B hand set and 2.2B licensing of patents for specific time periods. Also saying Asha included, all other hand sets not....see what shakes out.

Posted via CB10

This is right. $5B for hardware and $2.2B for licensing patents for 10 years with the option of making the licensing permanent after then.

They are also licensing Nokia's three core technologies for 4 years which I understand as separate?

"Three core technologies: NSN (its network infrastructure) HERE (its maps and location-based services); and Advanced Technologies (a licensing and development arm). Microsoft will pay Nokia for a four-year license of the HERE services, bringing the new company more revenue and stability than it had previously. But it also makes Nokia a much smaller company."

Microsoft buying Nokia's phone business in a $7.2 billion bid for its mobile future | The Verge

[morlock_man]

Am I crazy or did I read Nokia has 56,000 employees? Why do they have 5x more than BlackBerry?

A good number of them will probably get laid off during the transition as MSFT tries to make Nokia 'lean and mean'.

[leafs123]

Msft is buying nokia, so does it matter the details of the patents. Whether Msft owns them direct or via nokia? Or is there still some piece of nokia remaining on its own?

Nokia OWNS their patents and they are just licensing them to MSFT for 10 years. As well, MSFT are NOT buying Nokia, they are buying the hardware business.

[w4rrior]

A good number of them will probably get laid off during the transition as MSFT tries to make Nokia 'lean and mean'.

I'm 99% sure you're right. Still trying to wrap my head around why they have so many people.. do they not outsource any departments?

[leafs123]

Ya, I'm wearing these today but this Nokia deal shows that BB is undervalued...especially with many saying that the hardware business is zero.

[cjcampbell]

I'm 99% sure you're right. Still trying to wrap my head around why they have so many people.. do they not outsource any departments?

Don't forget that they move 10's of millions of mobile phones aside from smart phones.

[W Hoa]

Just curious - why has Nokia SP gone up about 1.8$ but Microsoft's has gone down by a similar amount - is it because MSFT share holders are selling and buying Nokia instead?

One factor would be the 212 million Nokia shares held short.

[cjcampbell]

One factor would be the 212 million Nokia shares held short.

could be partly the reason for sure. They do have a float of 3.7 billion shares though so it's really only 5% of the shares.

[OMGitworks]

Just curious - why has Nokia SP gone up about 1.8$ but Microsoft's has gone down by a similar amount - is it because MSFT share holders are selling and buying Nokia instead?

MSFT has lost over $13.5B of market cap as I type this. $1.63 per share with 8.3B shares outstanding. NOK gained $6.1B as of now. You have to look at # of shares too, not just stock price. Also, this is an asset sale, not a stock deal as I understand it. Pre-market is hard to pin down and very erratic. At these prices all we can infer is that the market thinks MSFT overpaid by a very large margin and that NOK got a premium for what they sold. Pre-Market will likely change so we will need to see where we are at noon and again at the end of the day.

[silversun10]

Just curious - why has Nokia SP gone up about 1.8$ but Microsoft's has gone down by a similar amount - is it because MSFT share holders are selling and buying Nokia instead?

Nokia handset sale hammers hedge funds | Reuters
(Reuters) - Hedge funds betting that the collapse in Finnish telecom group Nokia's share price would continue got a rude surprise on Tuesday, and their rush to unwind their bets left the stock eyeing a record daily gain.

[cgk]

Nokia OWNS their patents and they are just licensing them to MSFT for 10 years. As well, MSFT are NOT buying Nokia, they are buying the hardware business.

As discussed before - this is not quite right, they are buying some patents (8,200 design patents) and licensing others (32,000 utility patents) - more overall, the deal seems to allow Microsoft to take advantage of patent usage deals that Nokia have made with other companies.

[acdne]

Just curious - why has Nokia SP gone up about 1.8$ but Microsoft's has gone down by a similar amount - is it because MSFT share holders are selling and buying Nokia instead?

Nokia is up because they're receiving a lot of money, Microsoft is down because they are paying it. Often when there's a public on public acquisition this will happen.