[YangFui]

They did not lie, they WANTED to bring BB10 to the playbook and I'm sure they tried tons of tweaks to try and make it work.

Thank you for posting but I respectfully disagree with you. While we could explore the semantic meanings of the word "lie" (such as when you say: "No, you don't look fat in that dress"), I think we all know that a CEO better be damned sure about how he expresses himself and the specific words he chooses when communicating publically. Especially a CEO of a company trying to prove itself.

In this case, we're not talking about rumors or something some secretary, engineer, or other underling said at BlackBerry. We're talking about what the CEO said very specifically while a guest on a financial news network. Unless CGI is better than I know it to be, the words came from his own mouth and the sound was produced by his vocal cords. He said--and I quote:

"We will provide BlackBerry 10 software updates for all of the PlayBooks that are out there."
"They all will be upgraded to BlackBerry 10."

(Listen for yourself if you think I might have mis-quoted TH:
Thorsten Heins Confirms All PlayBooks Will Get BlackBerry 10 Update — NerdBerry
)

When a CEO says "We will", I think it's reasonable to assume that this is a certainty--not a best-effort. As a CEO of a billion-dollar company, he should know that there are countless other ways of expressing himself if he's not entirely certain about something. They're called "weasel words", and they're used in marketing all the time (my favorite example: "You could save 15% or more on your car insurance." [Geico]).

(See: Weasel word - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

For instance, if he had instead said:

"We [plan to][will try to][expect to][hope to][really want to][, against all odds, will try our best to] provide BlackBerry 10 software updates for all of the PlayBooks that are out there."
"They all should be upgraded to BlackBerry 10."

...then I wouldn't say that he "lied"--I would say that he had good intentions.

Furthermore, I would have liked to see a mea culpa, a sort of Jimmy Swaggart-style apology from Thorsten rather than a stilted statement about not being satisfied with the experience...

He's not the only one who's not having a satisfying experience...

[Kris Erickson]

In regards to the PB and BB10. What I understand is the the OS10 needs 2 gigs of Ram to run smooth, all the dev alpha Z10 phones with only 1gig of Ram ran kinda choppy/gittery?

What my dad told me once as a young kid (dad was a carpenter, built homes etc) and has stuck with me is this "You do a job to the best of your abilities or don't do the job at all." I'm sure BB software guys had every intention of bringing OS10 to the PB, I'm sure they spent a lot of time/money trying to do this and found that it would be some weak, basterdizes version of the current OS.

My question to you is if that is the case that they indeed did release a weak OS10 version for the PB, how would you think all they HATERs and Critic's(ie fund analysts) say about BB then? How damning would the number of blogs, website reviews, newspaper articles be about how BB has no problem releasing garbage software...
OR.. what they did Friday,, yep we tried but OS10 isn't going to happen for PB end of line.

[Tinomane]

In regards to the PB and BB10. What I understand is the the OS10 needs 2 gigs of Ram to run smooth, all the dev alpha Z10 phones with only 1gig of Ram ran kinda choppy/gittery?

What my dad told me once as a young kid (dad was a carpenter, built homes etc) and has stuck with me is this "You do a job to the best of your abilities or don't do the job at all." I'm sure BB software guys had every intention of bringing OS10 to the PB, I'm sure they spent a lot of time/money trying to do this and found that it would be some weak, basterdizes version of the current OS.

My question to you is if that is the case that they indeed did release a weak OS10 version for the PB, how would you think all they HATERs and Critic's(ie fund analysts) say about BB then? How damning would the number of blogs, website reviews, newspaper articles be about how BB has no problem releasing garbage software...
OR.. what they did Friday,, yep we tried but OS10 isn't going to happen for PB end of line.

What I don't get is why did they have to mention it at all on an already ****ty earnings? Deflect it for a cpl weeks.

[morganplus8]

I think people are being too forgiving of the Tens of Millions statement:

This applied only to the Q10. A handset only reasonably have a good sales life span on a year, so its very reasonable to expect those several tens of million of units sales over 12 months. Several tens of millions must also be at least 20 million. So thats at least 1.6 million a month or 3.2 million for the two months of the quarter when the handset was released.

On the face of it most of the comment does not even make sense. Most of BB's 70 million subscribers are low-cost users who would never be able to afford the Q10. The addressable market for the Q10 was not 70 million big.

It was after this statement that BB received many upgrades, so investors were clearly led and misled by TH's comments.

BlackBerry Q10: CEO Thorsten Heins sees sales in �tens of millions� | FP Tech Desk | Financial Post

I think you need to read these statements two or three times before you draw conclusions like this. If you take the total number of "sold phones of its predecessor", the BB 9900/9930, you get a true idea of how many phones are sold, not over one year but over one product life cycle. The simple fact is that the BB 9900/9930 has sold 10 of millions of phones during its lifespan and it still sells millions more today. I think you need to bash this company in anyway that you can, going to such lengths as making up ridiculous projections of "one year", on a multi-roll out basis, to save your argument. The BB 9900/9930 is in its 3rd year and still selling strong on BB07 in poorer countries, at bargain pricing.

This is in fact a silly assumption on your part. Heins is completely right, this one phone (Q10) will sell in the "10's of millions" during it reign and there is nothing you can do to distort that fact.

[bungaboy]

What I don't get is why did they have to mention it at all on an already ****ty earnings? Deflect it for a cpl weeks.

Bitter medicine is best taken in one big, single gulp I guess.

[Bugmapper]

What I don't get is why did they have to mention it at all on an already ****ty earnings? Deflect it for a cpl weeks.

Because wall street either couldn't care less about the pb or actually hated it, so for business people it is actually a positive that they announced the death of the pb.

Shows they are streamlining the business even more.

Posted via CB10 on a Z10 root device!

[bungaboy]

I want to reiterate CJ's statement on thanking PK and the Mod team for their understanding and allowing us a bit of leeway yesterday as we reacted and recovered to taking the "loafer in the family jewels".

I see they have been in early today doing some house cleaning and taking out some of the "trash".

Thanks again, PK and the Mod Team.

Now back to recovery and rebuild mode. AND looking to the $100 party AGM.

[Gesig Boek]

This is in fact a silly assumption on your part. Heins is completely right, this one phone (Q10) will sell in the "10's of millions" during it reign and there is nothing you can do to distort that fact.

Only successful handsets have long life cycles. The BB Storm for example only lasted one year. Even if 20 million BB10 phones are sold in the year, it is very unlikely one handset will sell in the tens of millions. You are still trying make reality fit your wishes.

[morganplus8]

Here is some crazy TA for you!! She is right if you have the guts to hang in there. He is totally wrong, so ..............

Can BlackBerry Make A Rebound? | Talking Numbers - Yahoo! Finance

[rambo47]

The PlayBook was a mistake from day 1 IMHO. An adjunct device that needs to run through your handheld? That's the very concept Palm was about to try with the Foleo notebook. They waited until the day before launch to officially kill it. Talk about throwing money down a rathole! BlackBerry started PlayBook development with this exact same approach, only later trying to add stand-alone capabilities to the device. And they did this in the age of iPad. Face it - they were doomed from the start with PlayBook. Sketchy concept, incredibly poor execution.

[morganplus8]

Only successful handsets have long life cycles. The BB Storm for example only lasted one year. Even if 20 million BB10 phones are sold in the year, it is very unlikely one handset will sell in the tens of millions. You are still trying make reality fit your wishes.

Come back to the board with the total sales of BB 9900/9930 to date, or give up on your constant bashing of BlackBerry which is not in the spirit of this thread. You can't argue that the Q10 won't sell millions, make that 10's of millions, because you know its past phone that it now replaces has accomplished that. Further, you can't claim that Heins meant that all sales had to occur within "your personal timeframe", give it up already.

[helopilot06]

good morning berry world. personally I'm thrilled with the price dip yesterday. yes I desperately wand bb10 and blackberry in general to succeed. I love this company and just to spite my losses yesterday I bought my white Z10 just to make a point, oh and a black one for wifey too. That said look at this as an oppurtunity to lower your averages buy in cheap and reap the benefits in the long term. every company slumps. shoot appl is off 400$ for petes sake. imagine that loss compared to 4$ a share. there is always a bright side

[njblackberry]

Come back to the board with the total sales of BB 9900/9930 to date, or give up on your constant bashing of BlackBerry which is not in the spirit of this thread. You can't argue that the Q10 won't sell millions, make that 10's of millions, because you know its past phone that it now replaces has accomplished that. Further, you can't claim that Heins meant that all sales had to occur within "your personal timeframe", give it up already.

Wow - taking things a bit personally. No one knows or can even guess how many Z10s or Q10s will sell. Estimates have been wrong. Pronouncements of sales (mainly on enthusiast sites - hint hint) are dramatically overreaching.

You have no more clue about future sales than anyone else - including the person you are bashing.

[DatMisterB]

Thank you for posting but I respectfully disagree with you. While we could explore the semantic meanings of the word "lie" (such as when you say: "No, you don't look fat in that dress"), I think we all know that a CEO better be damned sure about how he expresses himself and the specific words he chooses when communicating publically. Especially a CEO of a company trying to prove itself.

In this case, we're not talking about rumors or something some secretary, engineer, or other underling said at BlackBerry. We're talking about what the CEO said very specifically while a guest on a financial news network. Unless CGI is better than I know it to be, the words came from his own mouth and the sound was produced by his vocal cords. He said--and I quote:

"We will provide BlackBerry 10 software updates for all of the PlayBooks that are out there."
"They all will be upgraded to BlackBerry 10."

(Listen for yourself if you think I might have mis-quoted TH:
Thorsten Heins Confirms All PlayBooks Will Get BlackBerry 10 Update � NerdBerry
)

When a CEO says "We will", I think it's reasonable to assume that this is a certainty--not a best-effort. As a CEO of a billion-dollar company, he should know that there are countless other ways of expressing himself if he's not entirely certain about something. They're called "weasel words", and they're used in marketing all the time (my favorite example: "You could save 15% or more on your car insurance." [Geico]).

(See: Weasel word - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

For instance, if he had instead said:

"We [plan to][will try to][expect to][hope to][really want to][, against all odds, will try our best to] provide BlackBerry 10 software updates for all of the PlayBooks that are out there."
"They all should be upgraded to BlackBerry 10."

...then I wouldn't say that he "lied"--I would say that he had good intentions.

Furthermore, I would have liked to see a mea culpa, a sort of Jimmy Swaggart-style apology from Thorsten rather than a stilted statement about not being satisfied with the experience...

He's not the only one who's not having a satisfying experience...

Well it seems like something led to the miscommunication. I don't believe he's a loser, he's been picked by the old CEOs, you don't get approval from men like Mike and Jim if you are not top notch. BlackBerry is on limited resources, not trying to maximize the company's profit would be a bad thing for them, the shareholders and the consumers. Perhaps he was able to free up some resources and use it to push something new, plus have a small team to develop an update providing a few new things(2.1 or whatever). Trust me, Thorsten paid the price by saying this, it wasn't fun for him.

[njblackberry]

good morning berry world. personally I'm thrilled with the price dip yesterday. yes I desperately wand bb10 and blackberry in general to succeed. I love this company and just to spite my losses yesterday I bought my white Z10 just to make a point, oh and a black one for wifey too. That said look at this as an oppurtunity to lower your averages buy in cheap and reap the benefits in the long term. every company slumps. shoot appl is off 400$ for petes sake. imagine that loss compared to 4$ a share. there is always a bright side

Don't buy a stock because you are in love with the company or their products. Buy the stock because of sound fundamentals.
Don't be like the people earlier this week who bought at $14 because of the great upcoming numbers. Buy after doing research. Buy with your head and not with your heart.

Again - from another thread:

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
- Albert Einstein

[helopilot06]

The PlayBook was a mistake from day 1 IMHO. An adjunct device that needs to run through your handheld? That's the very concept Palm was about to try with the Foleo notebook. They waited until the day before launch to officially kill it. Talk about throwing money down a rathole! BlackBerry started PlayBook development with this exact same approach, only later trying to add stand-alone capabilities to the device. And they did this in the age of iPad. Face it - they were doomed from the start with PlayBook. Sketchy concept, incredibly poor execution.

I disagree. maybe on the large scale yes it failed. but personally I quite enjoy my playbook, gaming on it, reading ur post on it, replying on it lol. I would have loved for it to have been executed better of course cause let's face it who wouldnt. but for me it was a low end price tag with mid range preformance. I'm happy

[morganplus8]

The PlayBook was a mistake from day 1 IMHO. An adjunct device that needs to run through your handheld? That's the very concept Palm was about to try with the Foleo notebook. They waited until the day before launch to officially kill it. Talk about throwing money down a rathole! BlackBerry started PlayBook development with this exact same approach, only later trying to add stand-alone capabilities to the device. And they did this in the age of iPad. Face it - they were doomed from the start with PlayBook. Sketchy concept, incredibly poor execution.

Not so quick there cowboy, the PB was the test device for all future QNX branded products. They did a lousy job of bringing it to market in every way possible but the birth of BB 10 made this exercise worthwhile. Let's face it, would anyone think of sinking millions into a bunch of $ 99 dollar tablets that won't produce any future revenue back the company; as a good business decision? They did the right thing and I only wish they would work with BB 2.0 and get it right, we don't need BB 10 to enjoy this $ 99 product. As for Bridge, what a great idea, I still use my PB in the car all the time, and one on the boat, and with the HDMI output it gets better. Not to mention using my old BB 9900 as a remote control. I store movies on my second PB and watch them while on the road from the comfort of my bed. The Bridge feature is too cool to be true, no second data plan, I walk back to the car, search the net and head out to do some shopping. It is seamless and perfect for $ 99.

[take99]

good morning berry world. personally I'm thrilled with the price dip yesterday. yes I desperately wand bb10 and blackberry in general to succeed. I love this company and just to spite my losses yesterday I bought my white Z10 just to make a point, oh and a black one for wifey too. That said look at this as an oppurtunity to lower your averages buy in cheap and reap the benefits in the long term. every company slumps. shoot appl is off 400$ for petes sake. imagine that loss compared to 4$ a share. there is always a bright side

That makes one of us lol. Btw welcome back to the board!

[helopilot06]

Don't buy a stock because you are in love with the company or their products. Buy the stock because of sound fundamentals.
Don't be like the people earlier this week who bought at $14 because of the great upcoming numbers. Buy after doing research. Buy with your head and not with your heart.

Again - from another thread:

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
- Albert Einstein

thank you for your input. to date I have not yet bought a stock that wasn't for a company that I did not have a personal intrest in and to date I have not lost a cent. I do quite a bit of research before I buy. I still believe that bbry has quite a bit to offer and is not going anywhere. jeez look at their cash position. what the future direction will b is anyones guess. but from what I see things will get better not worse. hence why I am and have always been long. ask anyone here that has been here long enough to remember when I was more active and thwy will tell you that I'm not over hyped about the possibility of hittin 30$ or even 20$ anytime soon. but don't insult a persons reason for investing before you know their track record

[helopilot06]

That makes one of us lol. Btw welcome back to the board!

investing is what I do with my fun money... if I loose it then its no different than goin to the movies. so far its been quite profitable so over all I'm green. 4$ a share isn't worth a sweat. it will recover though it will be slow for sure.

[m1a1mg]

This place and some of it's members have been responsible for the "sugar coating" of BBRY.

I think sugar coating is a deliberate attempt to make things better than they are. It's not what I think this thread is.

I think this thread is an example of people wanting to see the same thing, and taking the information and forming it that way. I know I'm guilty. I really thought yesterday was going to be a good news day and posted such.

I'm still bothered this morning by the lack of sell through information. I know they shipped 2.7M phones, but I'd like to know how many of them sold.

[take99]

http://m.barrons.com/articles/a/SB50...g=reno-barrons

[Bugmapper]

http://m.barrons.com/articles/a/SB50...g=reno-barrons

Broken link? Page no longer exists error.

Posted via CB10 on a Z10 root device!

[spiller]

Guys, this stuff about people "losing money" worries me... You haven't lost if you haven't sold yet.

A few years back I had a lot in one stock, Canadian Tire I think it was, or Manulife. At the worst it had dropped about 60% from my price at the ill-timed purchase. I reviewed the company again and decided I still believed my money would do better there than if I swallowed the loss and put it elsewhere.

Earlier this year I sold whatever it was with about a 20% gain (from my original price) after it had crawled back the hard way.

If you look at BBRY now and would conclude dispassionately that it's a good price for a solid company ($3B cash, new platform with long runway, etc) then taking that loss may be your worst decision ever. Think hard, don't panic sell...

Posted via CB10

That is a weak argument. Only a paper loss until you change to cash. If my portfolio is 27% less than it was before earnings, I have 27% less equity in my savings. That to me is a real-time $ value and a 27% loss.

I didn't panic sell, I'm still in, and expect a 15% recovery over the next couple of months.

[bungaboy]

http://m.barrons.com/articles/a/SB50...g=reno-barrons

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